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Gaborik, Delisle, Parlett to CBJ for Brassard, Dorsett, Moore and 6th Round Pick

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05-10-2013, 03:08 AM
  #901
georgiabluejacket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Moore was surpassed by Erixon.
& Savard, & Goloubef, & Prout, & was most likely gonna be passed by Murray the second he steps on the ice. I was surprised by him being traded, but when you are regularily being scratched by people drafted after you(4th-6th rounders at that), the writing is on the wall.

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05-10-2013, 03:40 AM
  #902
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I saw absolutely nothing to suggest Moore was a No. 2 defender. Four to six sounds about right. You have to give to get and we were able to obtain a great offensive player who did help us add 2 wins to our win record. Moore would have added nothing. Not at all clear to me he would have even played during the stretch drive.

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05-10-2013, 09:22 AM
  #903
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Getting a huge headache on Moore discussion. A lot of conclusions based on small sample sizes with players that are still at the beginning stages of development brought on by a desire for instant gratification.

Moore couldn't get back in the lineup. The Rangers liked him and requested him. We had depth and we needed scoring. Moore could develop into a top pairing guy, might not. He wasn't really developed much in the AHL before he came up here, mainly one season. He is still very young, especially for a defensemen.

We are just circling around to the same conversation(s) every time one of these players has a good game in the playoffs.

Gaborik started off strong on the production side, finished light. But he still was a +5. We found out later an abdomen issue could have impacted him a bit down the stretch.

Next year come please.

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05-10-2013, 09:33 AM
  #904
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Originally Posted by georgiabluejacket View Post
& Savard, & Goloubef, & Prout, & was most likely gonna be passed by Murray the second he steps on the ice.
Moore wasnt surpassed by Savard nor Goloubef.

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05-10-2013, 10:02 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Getting a huge headache on Moore discussion. A lot of conclusions based on small sample sizes with players that are still at the beginning stages of development brought on by a desire for instant gratification.

Moore couldn't get back in the lineup. The Rangers liked him and requested him. We had depth and we needed scoring. Moore could develop into a top pairing guy, might not. He wasn't really developed much in the AHL before he came up here, mainly one season. He is still very young, especially for a defensemen.

We are just circling around to the same conversation(s) every time one of these players has a good game in the playoffs.

Gaborik started off strong on the production side, finished light. But he still was a +5. We found out later an abdomen issue could have impacted him a bit down the stretch.

Next year come please.
And meantime, Let's Go Caps!

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05-10-2013, 11:38 AM
  #906
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http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/...-repaired.html

Quote:
Gaborik had surgery to adjust a "mesh patch" that was put in place during a sports hernia surgery he had in 2001, following his rookie season with the Minnesota Wild. He's expected to need 3-4 weeks for recovery, and will spend much of that time in Columbus. He'll spend the next few days in New York tying up loose ends following his traded to the Blue Jackets in early April.

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05-10-2013, 11:44 AM
  #907
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
[...] and if Brass plays higher in the Rangers lineup he'll be in trouble. He's getting really good 3rd line matchups and with his vision and skill he's a benefit there. He's also a very, very good PP guy. Has the skill, just not the complete game. maybe he gets it in NY. We really didn't see it for any extended period here and if Scott "pile on" Arniel benches him what will Torts do?

Gaborik needs to be a 30 goal guy next year or better and create the mismatches for lower in the CBJ lineup. He may not get the points but if he gets any respect, it makes the rest of the team better. If could be another very good year next year.
You've made this point a couple of times now and it makes a lot of sense to me. He's matching up differently with the Rangers than he was with the Jackets. I like Brass a lot and want him to do well (like all the guys who traded over to the Rangers, except the one who asked for it), and your point about him playing lower down may "diminish" what he's accomplishing at the moment. But I think it makes sense.

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05-10-2013, 12:23 PM
  #908
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You've made this point a couple of times now and it makes a lot of sense to me. He's matching up differently with the Rangers than he was with the Jackets. I like Brass a lot and want him to do well (like all the guys who traded over to the Rangers, except the one who asked for it), and your point about him playing lower down may "diminish" what he's accomplishing at the moment. But I think it makes sense.
My question is if he's matching up against the third line next year that puts him against what, Matty - Dubi - Cam?

Can't imagine he'll be happy about that.....

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05-10-2013, 01:25 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Getting a huge headache on Moore discussion. A lot of conclusions based on small sample sizes with players that are still at the beginning stages of development brought on by a desire for instant gratification.

Moore couldn't get back in the lineup. The Rangers liked him and requested him. We had depth and we needed scoring. Moore could develop into a top pairing guy, might not. He wasn't really developed much in the AHL before he came up here, mainly one season. He is still very young, especially for a defensemen.

We are just circling around to the same conversation(s) every time one of these players has a good game in the playoffs.

Gaborik started off strong on the production side, finished light. But he still was a +5. We found out later an abdomen issue could have impacted him a bit down the stretch.

Next year come please.
Agreed. Wild swings of opinion based on few games.

I was never that into Moore, but I keep hearing folks say its okay he was traded because he was so low on the depth chart, etc... But he was so young! And injured! Where was he supposed to be?

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05-10-2013, 01:28 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by davidbklyn View Post
You've made this point a couple of times now and it makes a lot of sense to me. He's matching up differently with the Rangers than he was with the Jackets. I like Brass a lot and want him to do well (like all the guys who traded over to the Rangers, except the one who asked for it), and your point about him playing lower down may "diminish" what he's accomplishing at the moment. But I think it makes sense.
I don't see it. Brass faced weak lines much of the time playing here, and he didn't take advantage of it. Now he's piling up points in that role. I think the trade has sparked him, and he's winning more puck battles and faceoffs.

Really weren't we expecting him to break out for years? And now he finally is.

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05-10-2013, 01:45 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
I have no idea why people were making anything out of it. I would rather him that over a high ankle sprain, for example.

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05-10-2013, 01:48 PM
  #912
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We really have run out of things to talk about if we just keep rehashing this over and over and over and over again.

This is going to be the shortest offseason in team history, and it already feels like the longest.

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05-10-2013, 01:52 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
We really have run out of things to talk about if we just keep rehashing this over and over and over and over again.

This is going to be the shortest offseason in team history, and it already feels like the longest.
It will be the longest, because we are still engaged from the playoff run and we know that JK is quite capable of making surprise moves. At this point, normally, over half the board is usually disengaged until the draft.

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05-10-2013, 01:57 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
It will be the longest, because we are still engaged from the playoff run and we know that JK is quite capable of making surprise moves. At this point, normally, over half the board is usually disengaged until the draft.
Realistic optimism?

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05-10-2013, 02:00 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
It will be the longest, because we are still engaged from the playoff run and we know that JK is quite capable of making surprise moves. At this point, normally, over half the board is usually disengaged until the draft.
And the half that is engaged usually has someone they want to fire.

I don't want to become disengaged, it's just strange seeing the same 3 topics over and over again.

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05-10-2013, 02:08 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by candyman82 View Post
Maybe. We'll see if Tyutin, Umberger, and Boll stay.
I wouldn't be surprised. I wish we could trade early season Tyutin (frustrates the hell outta me) while keeping late season Tyutin (LOVE that guy!). Toots also holds a lot of trade value. We may need to spend that trade value to get the scorer we need.

Umberger's contract will be hard to move. Otherwise I think he'd be gone this summer.

Boll is here because he's more disciplined that Dorsett. The squad needs at least one fighter. Otherwise, he'd be on the move too.

Regarding Brassard's play in New York, sometimes players just need a change of scenery to an organization where they feel wanted and valued. Sometimes a young player just needs a wake-up call to get it in gear. Good for him. Brassard was Bobrovskied.

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05-10-2013, 02:08 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
And the half that is engaged usually has someone they want to fire.

I don't want to become disengaged, it's just strange seeing the same 3 topics over and over again.
Too many people to allow a topic to die. Not enough new stuff to start new topics.

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05-10-2013, 02:11 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
And the half that is engaged usually has someone they want to fire.

I don't want to become disengaged, it's just strange seeing the same 3 topics over and over again.
That, and it's weird to see the same three topics over and over again.

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05-10-2013, 02:42 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
That no more "candid" than any of the other ideas proposed for why the trade may have been made. We'll probably never know if any of that was a factor.
Oh, it's pretty candid. And of course we'll never know. Most of this thread is nothing but conjecture - my comments included.

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05-10-2013, 07:43 PM
  #920
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incoming rangers fans. brassard with another assist

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05-10-2013, 09:18 PM
  #921
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anyone else starting to worry Brassard is the primary reason we've owned the East in the past?

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05-11-2013, 03:06 AM
  #922
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Originally Posted by IBleedUnionBlue View Post
Moore wasnt surpassed by Savard nor Goloubef.
Yes he was. Just look at last season:

Early season(or when they both actually were not injured):

vs. OTT(10/25): Savard had 9:38 TOI, Moore had 9:35 (Savard +:03)
vs. WSH(12/31): Savard-18:51, Moore-19:36 (Moore +:45)
vs. SJS(1/5): Savard-12:48, Moore-21:03 (Moore +8:45)
vs. LA(1/7): Savard-12:10, Moore-10:40 (Savard +1:30)
vs. CHI(1/10): Savard-18:16, Moore-15:38 (Savard +2:38)
vs. SJS(1/14): Savard-17:57, Moore-20:14 (Moore +2:17)

Outside of one game they are relatively getting the same TOI. Now look at late season.

vs. CHI(3/20): Savard had 19:46 TOI, Moore had 12:47 (Savard +6:59)
vs. CAR(3/23): Savard with 19:57, Moore with 14:22 (Savard +5:35)
vs. EDM(3/25): Savard-16:12, Moore-10:51 (Savard +5:23)
vs. DET(3/26): Savard-19:46, Moore-14:41 (Savard +5:05)


Savard's getting over 5 minutes more TOI. In fact Savard had more assists(8-5), points(10-7), better +/-(0 to -23), & average TOI in less than half the games(67-31) last season.

Savard only played 4 games this year in Columbus. Two of them he still averaged the same amount of TOI as Moore. One Moore was hurt. The other Moore was scratched in favor of Savard for.

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05-11-2013, 03:07 AM
  #923
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
incoming rangers fans. brassard with another assist
I'll just counter with a "How's Nash doin?" message back

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05-11-2013, 04:28 AM
  #924
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Originally Posted by georgiabluejacket View Post
Yes he was. Just look at last season:

Early season(or when they both actually were not injured):

vs. OTT(10/25): Savard had 9:38 TOI, Moore had 9:35 (Savard +:03)
vs. WSH(12/31): Savard-18:51, Moore-19:36 (Moore +:45)
vs. SJS(1/5): Savard-12:48, Moore-21:03 (Moore +8:45)
vs. LA(1/7): Savard-12:10, Moore-10:40 (Savard +1:30)
vs. CHI(1/10): Savard-18:16, Moore-15:38 (Savard +2:38)
vs. SJS(1/14): Savard-17:57, Moore-20:14 (Moore +2:17)

Outside of one game they are relatively getting the same TOI. Now look at late season.

vs. CHI(3/20): Savard had 19:46 TOI, Moore had 12:47 (Savard +6:59)
vs. CAR(3/23): Savard with 19:57, Moore with 14:22 (Savard +5:35)
vs. EDM(3/25): Savard-16:12, Moore-10:51 (Savard +5:23)
vs. DET(3/26): Savard-19:46, Moore-14:41 (Savard +5:05)


Savard's getting over 5 minutes more TOI. In fact Savard had more assists(8-5), points(10-7), better +/-(0 to -23), & average TOI in less than half the games(67-31) last season.

Savard only played 4 games this year in Columbus. Two of them he still averaged the same amount of TOI as Moore. One Moore was hurt. The other Moore was scratched in favor of Savard for.
Savard was definitely outproducing Moore for a couple years, but by the early part of this year it was clear that Moore was well ahead of Savard in the all-around game, stats be damned. And when Savard was getting all the attention many of us (not me) looked at those two players and knew it was only a matter of time before Moore pulled ahead. And then look at this year, NHL or AHL, he's well ahead of Savard, and has been for awhile.

On Moore's recent play with the Rangers, I've only seen a couple periods here and there, along with the nhl.tv highlights, but everytime I've watched I've seen Moore screw up. Ribeiro won tonight's game in OT only because Moore left him untouched to bury the rebound. I've seen Ovi turn him into a pylon, and Moore's passes have been picked off at least a few times by my count. What are Ranger fans thinking? Are they just blinded by his skating? Are they used to bad defense? Are they getting him confused with McDonagh? Or is he really so good the rest of the time that it outweighs what I've seen?


Last edited by major major: 05-11-2013 at 04:37 AM.
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05-11-2013, 06:14 AM
  #925
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And then look at this year, NHL or AHL, he's well ahead of Savard, and has been for awhile.
-Which guy do you think is being groomed for the future? The guy playing top pair defense in the AHL, getting 20+ minutes in all sorts of situations or the guy getting 13-14 minutes in the NHL while regularily being a healthy scratch?

-If he was "well ahead" then he would be getting significantly more TOI, not the same amount. He'd also have better stats than Savard, which the opposite is true.

-By awhile you mean when? Cause Savard beat him handidly last year(CBJ management apparently thought the same as Savard was getting 5 more minutes TOI at the end of the season) and considering Moore had a whopping 1 assist for us, he wasn't this year either.

Lets look at it another way. If you adjust Savards stats to reflect the same amount of games played(which is actually not necessary since Savard already has better numbers in 51 less games) as Moore you get:

Moore: 86 games played 2 goals 6 assists -28 +/-
Savard: 86 games played 5 goals 20 assists -7 +/-

Hmmmm, more goals, assists, & points while having a significantly better +/-, while playing the same amount of minutes. So not only is he scoring more(better offense) but the opposing team scores less when he's on the ice(better defense). Maybe you meant Moore is "way ahead" at goaltending cause the actual numbers say Savard has him in every other category.

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