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The Carey Price Discussion Thread (Part 3)

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Old
05-11-2013, 12:55 AM
  #976
hockeyfan2k11
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Price is not getting traded. LOL

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05-11-2013, 01:01 AM
  #977
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Price is not getting traded. LOL
If you're the GM of this team, don't you have the responsibility to ask yourself and your assistants every year, do we want to continue to invest in a goalie as a core player, and what is the market for him? I'm not saying this because of Price's recent play. I think every team with a high priced, highly valued goalie should be asking themselves these questions.

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05-11-2013, 01:51 AM
  #978
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Here is our problem

Subban - xxx
Markov - Gorges
Bouillon - Tinordi
Emelin

The problem is we don't have a defensive system, we have a run and gun type system so get a solid top pairing D in front of Price like most top goalies have (unless they play a defensive system like St-Louis or Ottawa) and we will see Price's numbers improve a lot I'd imagine. The problem isn't the goalie, it's either the D or the system.

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05-11-2013, 05:16 AM
  #979
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Keep playing price please, I also say te same thing to the ny jets about mark Sanchez.

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05-11-2013, 06:14 AM
  #980
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Only 5 more years of 1st round exits.

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Old
05-11-2013, 07:09 AM
  #981
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Originally Posted by Guilliam View Post
I'm almost encline to agree with what Mathias Brunet said after game 4 :
I have a serious concern with this article. It puts Theodore in the same category as Roy and not Hackett, Huet. Is Brunet trolling?

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05-11-2013, 07:39 AM
  #982
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I have a serious concern with this article. It puts Theodore in the same category as Roy and not Hackett, Huet. Is Brunet trolling?
I think his point is that regarding goalies in montreal, the higher they rise the harder they fall. Like it or not Theodore played at an elite level at some point.

Most Habs fans can't control their expectations and are impatient as ****, this appears to be the thesis enunciated in regards to goaltenders by Brunet and I tend to agree.

We should sign Marc Denis and bring back Cedrick Desjardins (again)

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05-11-2013, 08:12 AM
  #983
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Had this discussion with a colleague yesterday. He mentioned he doesn't think Price is the guy. I asked him who's available out there to replace him with. Crickets. There isn't anyone available out there that will give you the same or better.

Argue he's overpaid and overrated...you most likely can make a case for either. However, he's the best we have and is next to impossible to replace.

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05-11-2013, 08:20 AM
  #984
Des Louise
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
I think his point is that regarding goalies in montreal, the higher they rise the harder they fall. Like it or not Theodore played at an elite level at some point.

Most Habs fans can't control their expectations and are impatient as ****, this appears to be the thesis enunciated in regards to goaltenders by Brunet and I tend to agree.

We should sign Marc Denis and bring back Cedrick Desjardins (again)
My problem with Price has always been the following :

We shouldn't have used a top 5 draft pick on a goalie when top offensive talent was still available.

The reason is that goalies take too long to develop. They're also so far away from their top potential when you draft them that it's very very difficult to predict how good they will really be. And with a top 5 pick, you should make damn sure you get a stud. EDIT: Not to mention that in a cap world, having guys on ELC performing like all stars and as such having lower cap hit for a year or two is a big advantage if you use it well. Goalies can't be that guy because they seldom are big contributors on their ELC deal.

Fortunately for us, Price has turned out pretty good all things considered.

However, since we drafted him, we got one good half a season, 1 great legit starter season, and a bunch of performances which we could have gotten from just about any goalie, nothing special at all, sometimes even downright bad.

We have invested sooo much in this guy. A top 5 draft pick, made room for him by trading any who could challenge him, rushed him years before he was ready so we could justify the draft selection and we gave him a big deal that only goalies with awards and a proven record of consistency should get..

In the meantime, other teams draft goalies in the 2nd and 3rd round, or even later.. and these guys end up being better. Hell, just look at what the kings did. They drafted Kopitar and then Quick the year we drafted Price. Just imagine where we would be now with Kopitar and Quick instead of Price... It's just stupid to draft a goalie this high. Hell Rask was drafted after Price... and he's arguably better. Goalies drafted high seldom meet the gigantic expectations placed on them. It was a big trend for a while with Luongo, Lehtonen, Fleury, Dipietro and finally Price but I think that trend has died down now. I'm not a fan of any of these goalies except Lehtonen. Price is not all bad but time flies and soon we'll talk about achievements instead of what's to come. We already have started talking about that.


Last edited by Des Louise: 05-11-2013 at 08:28 AM.
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Old
05-11-2013, 08:24 AM
  #985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
If you're the GM of this team, don't you have the responsibility to ask yourself and your assistants every year, do we want to continue to invest in a goalie as a core player, and what is the market for him? I'm not saying this because of Price's recent play. I think every team with a high priced, highly valued goalie should be asking themselves these questions.
Ask Dave Nonis what the market for a "high priced, highly valued", er, over paid, under performing goalie is, or Luongo.

We are stuck with him, end of story.

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05-11-2013, 08:33 AM
  #986
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Originally Posted by Habbadasher View Post
Ask Dave Nonis what the market for a "high priced, highly valued", er, over paid, under performing goalie is, or Luongo.

We are stuck with him, end of story.
You can't say that.

Luongo is 34 and his best years are likely behind him. He has never proven he was the real deal in the playoffs IMO. People talk about the gold medal but I don't know that it's that relevant for many reasons.

And Luongo's deal bring him past 40... it's a problem.

Price on the other hand is signed for his prime years, is only 25 so we can only hope the best is ahead despite the lack of constant progression and some stagnation.

That being said, people always overestimate the value of goalies. Habs managed to get real solid value for Halak when his value was at its highest after a big season + playoffs run. Other than that, there's the Varlamov insanity.. Bishop for Conacher... Those are the best deals that come to mind. Thing is the market is more and more saturated with good goalies. If everyone has a fairly decent starter, then the value of these guys becomes a bit less.

I don't think we would like the return we would get for Price, and I wouldn't say we're stuck with him. He has shown he can be great in the past. Now it's a matter of getting back to that level and staying there. Is it training, coaching, mental or what ? I don't know.

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05-11-2013, 08:55 AM
  #987
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If you look around the league at teams looking for a goalie, there are not many of them. Of the top of my head it would Philly, Calgary maybe edmonton and possibly Jersey. But in any situation that Price is for some reason traded we need a goalie coming back in return.

Philly- Bryz ( not touching with a ten foot pole)
Calgary ( Joey Mcdonald the guy is a glorified back up)
Edmonton ( Dubnyk Would only consider if one of hall, eberle,hopkins, schultz or yak is coming back with him)
Jersey (Both of them will be retired in the coming years)

The only two goalies on the market right now or Luongo and Bernier

Luongo ( 34 years old 9 years left on that albatross on a contract) Some of you hate Price but I will promise you that you will hate Luongo even more

Bernier ( French Canadian Back up goalie on the defending and possible repeat winners of the stanley cup)

I just can't see him being anywhere near as good as carey price as bernier is 24 compared to price's 25, as he has accomplished nothing in his career yet. The kings gave him a chance to take over the number one job, but he couldnt so what is saying he can do it here.

You guys dont seem to understand that goaltending is the hardest position to have depth in, and we are lucky we have a goalie like Carey Price.

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05-11-2013, 09:10 AM
  #988
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There is no goalie in the league that would be significantly better than Price on this team. Period.

If you disagree, name me one. And keep in mind how often the defence on this team is beat to the inside.

Find me a goalie that wins consistently on a team where he is faced with quality scoring chances on a regular basis.

We all saw what happens when an inferior goalie plays behind this godawful defence...Budaj in game 5. If it wasn't Price back there we'd be blown out every game.

If you have Boullion in your top 4 you are dead before you start. Especially when your other D are Diaz, Gorges, and a Markov than has no speed left at all.

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05-11-2013, 09:15 AM
  #989
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Is it just me or is nobody realizing that the real 'problem' with Price is Pierre Groulx. I think it's time to bring in another goalie coach to help get him to the next level. Francois Allaire is out there... Just saying...

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05-11-2013, 09:46 AM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Habs Man View Post
Is it just me or is nobody realizing that the real 'problem' with Price is Pierre Groulx. I think it's time to bring in another goalie coach to help get him to the next level. Francois Allaire is out there... Just saying...
I've been thinking for a while that a different coach could improve the play of Price.

He seems so intent on sticking with this hybrid style, that he's not able to use his athleticism and reflexes to their maximum.

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Old
05-11-2013, 10:00 AM
  #991
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
There is no goalie in the league that would be significantly better than Price on this team. Period.

If you disagree, name me one. And keep in mind how often the defence on this team is beat to the inside.

Find me a goalie that wins consistently on a team where he is faced with quality scoring chances on a regular basis.

We all saw what happens when an inferior goalie plays behind this godawful defence...Budaj in game 5. If it wasn't Price back there we'd be blown out every game.

If you have Boullion in your top 4 you are dead before you start. Especially when your other D are Diaz, Gorges, and a Markov than has no speed left at all.
Sorry, the Bruins and Leafs are playing all out run and gun n the playoffs. The Habs series looked like a battle of defensive titans by comparison. Reimer and Rask are getting stronger with each game and are the first stars of their respective teams. There are 2 off the top of my head that are both better than Price.

The Problem is availability, the teams that have found their go-to goaltenders are not trading them anytime soon.

These days it's easier to find a goaltender playing better than Price than the other way around. Some will take longer than others to come to the necessary conclusions.

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05-11-2013, 10:14 AM
  #992
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Sorry, the Bruins and Leafs are playing all out run and gun n the playoffs. The Habs series looked like a battle of defensive titans by comparison. Reimer and Rask are getting stronger with each game and are the first stars of their respective teams. There are 2 off the top of my head that are both better than Price.

The Problem is availability, the teams that have found their go-to goaltenders are not trading them anytime soon.

These days it's easier to find a goaltender playing better than Price than the other way around. Some will take longer than others to come to the necessary conclusions.
I can only laugh at this post.

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05-11-2013, 10:22 AM
  #993
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Originally Posted by Habs Man View Post
Is it just me or is nobody realizing that the real 'problem' with Price is Pierre Groulx. I think it's time to bring in another goalie coach to help get him to the next level. Francois Allaire is out there... Just saying...
I'm willing to throw the blame on the goalie coach, I hope this is what it is. But wasn't Groulx there for Price's big season back in 2010-11 ?

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05-11-2013, 10:22 AM
  #994
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I can only laugh at this post.
My laughter for people like you will only get louder after each successive playoff loss with CP.

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05-11-2013, 10:26 AM
  #995
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I'm willing to throw the blame on the goalie coach, I hope this is what it is. But wasn't Groulx there for Price's big season back in 2010-11 ?
Price always falls back into the same early-drop stance. Until someone reprograms him on these habits there is a multitude of shots that will beat him. Hey, we have 5 years to do it but how many goaltender coaches can you burn for one stubborn athlete.

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05-11-2013, 10:28 AM
  #996
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
There is no goalie in the league that would be significantly better than Price on this team. Period.

If you disagree, name me one. And keep in mind how often the defence on this team is beat to the inside.

Find me a goalie that wins consistently on a team where he is faced with quality scoring chances on a regular basis.

We all saw what happens when an inferior goalie plays behind this godawful defence...Budaj in game 5. If it wasn't Price back there we'd be blown out every game.

If you have Boullion in your top 4 you are dead before you start. Especially when your other D are Diaz, Gorges, and a Markov than has no speed left at all.
The kings allowed 2 breakaways in their 2-1 win last night. And prime shot from the slot too. And I missed a good chunk of the first so possibly more. All stopped by Quick. I swear if you guys watched other teams... no team's defense is perfect. Even the vaunted kings D allows tons of chances every game. A defense always looks better when its goalie makes the stops.

If it had been Price I guarantee that the game isn't won 2-1 and we would have heard the slew of usual excuses :

-How do you expect to win when you only score 2 goals?
-It's not a goalie issue, when will you people wake up, we allowed 2 breakaways and 1 shot from the slot ? How does our D keep leaving players all alone with our goalies ?
etc, etc.

At this point, there are no reason to stick with one guy and pay 6.5M if we can't expect him to step up big when the rest of the team doesn't. That's when you actually need a goalie, is when your team allows chances. If the goalie can only do well and win when you allow zero chances, then just put anybody in there worth 1M and sign some 6.5M guy on defense play better defensively.

This is all nonsense to me. We weren't that bad defensively. We weren't amazing either but you're just deflecting blame.

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05-11-2013, 10:29 AM
  #997
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
The kings allowed 2 breakaways in their 2-1 win last night. And prime shot from the slot too. And I missed a good chunk of the first so possibly more. All stopped by Quick. I swear if you guys watched other teams... no team's defense is perfect. Even the vaunted kings D allows tons of chances every game. A defense always looks better when its goalie makes the stops.

If it had been Price I guarantee that the game isn't won 2-1 and we would have heard the slew of usual excuses :

-How do you expect to win when you only score 2 goals?
-It's not a goalie issue, when will you people wake up, we allowed 2 breakaways and 1 shot from the slot ? How does our D keep leaving players all alone with our goalies ?
etc, etc.

At this point, there are no reason to stick with one guy and pay 6.5M if we can't expect him to step up big when the rest of the team doesn't. That's when you actually need a goalie, is when your team allows chances. If the goalie can only do well and win when you allow zero chances, then just put anybody in there worth 1M and sign some 6.5M guy on defense play better defensively.

This is all nonsense to me. We weren't that bad defensively. We weren't amazing either but you're just deflecting blame.
Well said. You have a good command of this situation and what's going on in and outside Montreal.

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05-11-2013, 10:29 AM
  #998
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I find he doesnt fight enough, relies on is technique too often. I liked the way he played in game 2, u could see he had fire in his belly and was really aggressive. I like at Quick goal and seems hes just fightning all the time.

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05-11-2013, 10:32 AM
  #999
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Had this discussion with a colleague yesterday. He mentioned he doesn't think Price is the guy. I asked him who's available out there to replace him with. Crickets. There isn't anyone available out there that will give you the same or better.

Argue he's overpaid and overrated...you most likely can make a case for either. However, he's the best we have and is next to impossible to replace.
Available that could give you the same or better:

Smith, Backstrom, Halak, Bernier, Luongo, Theodore ( he did have his superstar season under Therrien's system ). And I didn't make any research but the market for goalie is pretty strong this summer.

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05-11-2013, 10:42 AM
  #1000
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
There is no goalie in the league that would be significantly better than Price on this team. Period.

If you disagree, name me one. And keep in mind how often the defence on this team is beat to the inside.

Find me a goalie that wins consistently on a team where he is faced with quality scoring chances on a regular basis.

We all saw what happens when an inferior goalie plays behind this godawful defence...Budaj in game 5. If it wasn't Price back there we'd be blown out every game.

If you have Boullion in your top 4 you are dead before you start. Especially when your other D are Diaz, Gorges, and a Markov than has no speed left at all.
Those quality scoring chances look like that because they're always in the back of the net.

Francois Allaire said it better, the other team doesn't always have to fight to get their goals, they come easy. Look at how hard we had to battle to get our goal against Ottawa. All Ottawa had to do is to get themselve 5 good scoring chances and they kney they would have at least 2 goals.

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