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Should The Habs Replace MT With Patrick Roy ?

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Old
05-11-2013, 01:16 AM
  #76
bsl
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Originally Posted by LastRide View Post
Pretty sure Roy didn't want to be just a coach but also wanted some say as part of a GM. At least thats what the reports were.
Did you ever stop to think that maybe Roy was pretty stupid to think he could both coach the Montreal Canadiens, and be 'part' GM of this team, with zero NHL coaching or management experience?

And further, that Roy would invent 'co GM' as a position, and expect Habs to do that?

He's D...U....M....B. You can't see that?

He was a great goalie dude. Leave it at that.

Stay away, far away from Roy.

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05-11-2013, 01:42 AM
  #77
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If Habs miss the playoffs next season I don't think Therrien will survive. This 48 game schedule and making the playoffs probably did more harm than good for him, in the long run.

Now he has to deal with higher expectations. No way we finish 2nd in conference if it was a full season. There is NO WAY.

His free pass was this year. If we had missed the playoffs this season, he'd be safe since it's 1st season, shortened season, team was 2nd last year, and rebuilding process.

But that's all out the door now.

PLUS, add to the fact that he will be on a shorter leash since he already FAILED in this city as a coach in the past. Media and fans will feast on this fact and him if his team struggles next season.

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05-11-2013, 02:03 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
If Habs miss the playoffs next season I don't think Therrien will survive. This 48 game schedule and making the playoffs probably did more harm than good for him, in the long run.

Now he has to deal with higher expectations. No way we finish 2nd in conference if it was a full season. There is NO WAY.

His free pass was this year. If we had missed the playoffs this season, he'd be safe since it's 1st season, shortened season, team was 2nd last year, and rebuilding process.

But that's all out the door now.

PLUS, add to the fact that he will be on a shorter leash since he already FAILED in this city as a coach in the past. Media and fans will feast on this fact and him if his team struggles next season.
I don't think coaches are that important. The ones who **** up are the idiots who piss the players off.

JM was terrible at player support, the most important part of his job. I could not stand the guy because of it. First rule of management is defend and support your staff. If a staff is ****, go to the boss and have the staff removed, decently and with care. But as long as they are your staff, support them.

MT has impressed me this year precisely because he supports his players. That's all I need. The team and Bergy will do the rest.

I give him 2 years, and I have no probs with that because most coaches are the same anyway, except for the occasional complete idiot.

We need stability, not coaching issues, while we become a contender.

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05-11-2013, 02:13 AM
  #79
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I'll tell you who we need... Vincent.

He's young and intelligent. Get him. Or just give the job to Gallant.

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05-11-2013, 08:56 AM
  #80
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Isn't Roy on the record of saying toughness is pointless nowadays and it's all about skill? The team would be more soff than ever.

Besides, we have no idea about what his X's and O's are.

I'd let him go to Colorado and make them suffer through his growing pains first instead of us firing him after one season and letting him mature elsehwhere.

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05-11-2013, 09:09 AM
  #81
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ugh... no.

People thinking he wanted the GM-coach job in Montreal are stupid though. He would have taken the coaching job with Bergevin as the GM.

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05-11-2013, 09:21 AM
  #82
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To answer the OP

**** NO!

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05-11-2013, 09:24 AM
  #83
Travis Moen
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In two years, I will bump this thread and all those ridiculing the idea of firing Therrien will feel like complete idiots.

I get why MB hired him. He was the only francophone coach with experience available. Unfortunately, french doesn't win you cups. And experience doesn't make you competent. Especially when experience tells you Therrien was the sole responsible of his teams defeat a few times in the past.

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05-11-2013, 09:28 AM
  #84
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I don't think Sakic wants Roy. Also, Roy turned down the Avs before to stay close to his family. Also, I have a feeling Roy is waiting for his chance with the Habs so there's no rush. And why would they fire MT when he took the Habs from last to first in the division?

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05-11-2013, 09:30 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prallchengher View Post
Isn't Roy on the record of saying toughness is pointless nowadays and it's all about skill? The team would be more soff than ever.

Besides, we have no idea about what his X's and O's are.

I'd let him go to Colorado and make them suffer through his growing pains first instead of us firing him after one season and letting him mature elsehwhere.
Have you ever seen one of Roy's teams play?

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05-11-2013, 09:38 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastRide View Post
Looks like the Av's are ready to steal him away. They Av's love digging through our organization. Losing MT isn't that big a deal as far as I am concerned. No big loss. Plus I didn't like some of the payers he was sending out on the PP among other things. I also read MT's games speech's are uninspiring. I would love to see Roy behind the bench.
LOL

Honestly, no disrespect intended, but why waste time speculating in foolishness like this? We know there is no possible chance of this happening, certainly for next year after the year we had. SMH

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05-11-2013, 10:11 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Moen View Post
In two years, I will bump this thread and all those ridiculing the idea of firing Therrien will feel like complete idiots.

I get why MB hired him. He was the only francophone coach with experience available. Unfortunately, french doesn't win you cups. And experience doesn't make you competent. Especially when experience tells you Therrien was the sole responsible of his teams defeat a few times in the past.
Language aside, who were the other candidates?

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05-11-2013, 10:18 AM
  #88
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Should The Habs Replace MT With Patrick Roy ?
Absolutely not.


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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
What a ridiculous comment......We outshot and outchanced the Sens for almost the entire series. Goaltending and injuries were the only reasons that this team is done for the season.
Exactly. This notion was brought by Sens' fans and people who hate the Habs during that series and it's as far as it gets from the truth. MT didn't get out-coached. He made some decisions like he's done all season long, based on the information that he has (injuries) and on his gut. You win some, you lose some.


Last edited by Habsterix*: 05-11-2013 at 10:24 AM.
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05-11-2013, 10:19 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by LastRide View Post
and then a nice early exit. I highly doubt the Habs finished first in their division because of MT tell you the truth. Sometimes a coach gets more credit than deserved.
I was very much against the idea of hiring Michel Theirren but I was clearly wrong. It's hard to believe you actually watched the team this season and could make the statement you just made. Seems pretty obvious to me that the single biggest reason for Montreal's surprising turn-around this year was the coach.

And for you to say "then a nice early exit" is purely idiotic. Do you think maybe - just maybe - the reason the Canadiens failed in the first round was because their starting goaltender was hurt? Their top scoring winger had a seperated shoulder? Their captain was out? Their third line center and fourth line centers got hurt? Their first pairing defenseman who led the team in hits and ate up major minutes was hurt? Their banging energy line player and team leader played hurt then missed games?

It's moronic to lay the blame for the loss at the coach and ignore all of those obvious debilitating issues. It just makes you look totally uninformed.

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05-11-2013, 10:23 AM
  #90
WhiskeySeven
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Therrien has a bit more rope to play with but not much - he got thoroughly out-coached this year.

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05-11-2013, 10:24 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Moen View Post
In two years, I will bump this thread and all those ridiculing the idea of firing Therrien will feel like complete idiots.

I get why MB hired him. He was the only francophone coach with experience available. Unfortunately, french doesn't win you cups. And experience doesn't make you competent. Especially when experience tells you Therrien was the sole responsible of his teams defeat a few times in the past.
Gee, what a bold statement. After three years of him coaching your bump this thread and somehow you think that validates anything?

Considering the average NHL coaches career is less then three years your'e not exactly going out on a limb here.

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05-11-2013, 10:38 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Moen View Post
In two years, I will bump this thread and all those ridiculing the idea of firing Therrien will feel like complete idiots.
No we won't. In 2 years the parameters will likely have changed and Therrien will be ripe for firing. Right now, this summer, it's a terribly stupid idea. That won't change in 2 years. No one is saying the habs need to get married with Therrien for the next 10 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Moen View Post
I get why MB hired him. He was the only francophone coach with experience available. Unfortunately, french doesn't win you cups. And experience doesn't make you competent. Especially when experience tells you Therrien was the sole responsible of his teams defeat a few times in the past.
Let me get this straight. If someone speaks French they're automically a terrible choice. This is what you're basically implying here. I do not understand why people are so bothered by it. There are 29 other teams you can cheer for which don't have this HUUUUGE french problem. What drew you to the habs in the first place? Why not embrace our uniqueness ?

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05-11-2013, 11:15 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Exactly. This notion was brought by Sens' fans and people who hate the Habs during that series and it's as far as it gets from the truth. MT didn't get out-coached. He made some decisions like he's done all season long, based on the information that he has (injuries) and on his gut. You win some, you lose some.
I'll third that. This much is obvious for anyone who watched the games and has a minimum of an ability to synthesize and process what they have seen and is not insanely emotionally biased.

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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Therrien has a bit more rope to play with but not much - he got thoroughly out-coached this year.
You can't keep using the hockey knowledge/you've never played hockey card after saying something so ridiculous. Lay off the whiskey.

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05-11-2013, 11:22 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
MT didn't get out-coached. He made some decisions like he's done all season long, based on the information that he has (injuries) and on his gut. You win some, you lose some.
Precisely. And in a best of 7 series this can be the difference between out-coaching and being out-coached. I'm not blaming the loss on Therrien, I'm simply saying that he didn't help the cause by getting out-coached. And hey, I'm a Therrien supporter. I hated the hiring but had no choice but to change my mind over the course of the season. He did a fantastic job. He was less than stellar in the playoffs, though, and that's okay. He'll learn from it just like everyone else.

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05-11-2013, 11:23 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Did you ever stop to think that maybe Roy was pretty stupid to think he could both coach the Montreal Canadiens, and be 'part' GM of this team, with zero NHL coaching or management experience?

And further, that Roy would invent 'co GM' as a position, and expect Habs to do that?

He's D...U....M....B. You can't see that?

He was a great goalie dude. Leave it at that.

Stay away, far away from Roy.
As I remember Roy said this was a bunch of BS in his interview following Therrien's hiring. Not that I want to replace Therrien but let's not base that decision on BS rumors from our BS journalists.

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05-11-2013, 11:35 AM
  #96
WhiskeySeven
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
You can't keep using the hockey knowledge/you've never played hockey card after saying something so ridiculous. Lay off the whiskey.
Your obsession with me only exposes yourself, you embarrassed yourself in the Price threads daily about "soft goals" now you're following me around like a rain dog.

Drop words like synthesize and analyze all you want but Therrien got beat, do you want me to write a manifesto about it?

The Habs lost in 5 games to a team carrying 7 rookies and an injured star. They lost the same way they lost their last 8 games - opposing team stressing the D and pressuring in the neutral zone. Notice we didn't get trapped to death? That's because at all times, in all zones, the opposing team was tracking and hassling our D-men.

Therrien didn't adjust his PP to accommodate the pressure on Subban, nor did he adjust our forecheck in the face of this added defensive pressure - I won't comment on the lines as injuries ran amok but Therrien stuck by them even when they were misfiring. Those are not simple adjustments granted, but the playoffs aren't simple and I had repeatedly stressed that our d-scheme is hyper-aggressive and exposes our goaltending and leaves our crappier d-men vulnerable. Well that's what happened.

I don't want to keep bickering with you, so let's drop the personal insults.

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05-11-2013, 11:39 AM
  #97
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lol , absolutely not, Roy is a hot head and he would totally ruin any or most of our young prospects with his temper. ever see him coach he gets pissed all the time and looks like his head is gonna pop

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05-11-2013, 12:20 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
'
This post is so stupid I don't even know where to begin.

MT wasn't outcoached and we easily could've won this series. The fact that we made it to the playoffs at all is a huge accomplishment. And don't give us this "the regular season doesn't count" ****. That's an absolutely stupid argument right now.

Young team, played reasonably well in most of the games (though we didn't go to the net) and could've won. Guys were hurt and it's a very inexperienced group. Yet, because we lost a playoff series it's time to call MT a total failure and throw him out?

How about we just throw this stupid thread out instead?
That's quite the statement you made there, care to back it up with facts? We got lots of shots, great..terrific! Anderson wasn't letting those in, so what was plan 'B'? The montreal forwards were often out of position, looked lost on a lot of plays. Why did we not have 2 centers out on a majority of the defensive zone faceoffs? When DD lost that critical draw when we were screwed on which side of the ice the faceoff should be, we only had 1 center.

MT isn't a terrible coach, but watching him complain every game certainly trickles down to the players. Telling the press Gionta was 'crying in his arms' was almost creepy, a thing that a minor league coach wouldn't tell the press.

People are skeptical of MT because of his playoff history, his teams seem to fold when the going gets tough.

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05-11-2013, 12:52 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Drop words like synthesize and analyze all you want but Therrien got beat, do you want me to write a manifesto about it?
I'd expect someone who says something that is clearly not obvious and somewhat controversial to go into details yes. You can't just drop a bomb out there and expect it to make sense for everyone because it doesn't.

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The Habs lost in 5 games to a team carrying 7 rookies and an injured star. They lost the same way they lost their last 8 games - opposing team stressing the D and pressuring in the neutral zone.
You are failing to take into account our gazillion injuries. The difference between Eller and Spezza is more than offset by the loss of Gionta, Pacioretty, Prust, Emelin, etc. All of whom missed games and/or played at a severly diminished capacity. The injury to Prust directly accounted for a loss when he grabbed his chest in game 4 and swiped the puck in the slot in desperation.

The team went into a small funk at the end of the season after clinching for many understandable reasons. Then they turned it back on right in time for the playoffs by winning against the jets and the leafs in convincing fashion. A part of the end of year slump is the fact that Price went zero kelvin degrees cold. Another part is the guys were resting for the playoffs and tried to keep some in the tank. I'd say it was the right way to handle things. I never panicked. It did bother the hell out of me that Price wouldn't step up at that point though. That's the exact time at which we needed him. Maybe it wouldn't have been enough to even win one more game if he had but he didn't so we'll never know.

As far as the number of rookies the sens had playing. The 86 habs had that many rookies. Notice the fact they also had an incredibly hot goalie in Roy, same as the sens. The number of rookies is not that big of a deal, it doesn't mean that much. Nevermind the fact we had our fair share of rookies with Dumont, Tinordi, Galchenyuk and Galagher, and a bunch of guys who had no playoffs experience as well.

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Notice we didn't get trapped to death? That's because at all times, in all zones, the opposing team was tracking and hassling our D-men.
I noticed the habs pinning the sens in their own zone for large portions of the games forechecking aggressively and preventing the sens offense by generating offense. Getting more shots and chances on net and the sens being largely ineffectual offensively unless they were on the PP or unless the game was out of reach and the team had given up (game 3 and 5 in the 3rd period) with the exception of game 3 where the habs came out flat and the sens came prepared to wage war. It didn't help that in the opening minutes Condra decided to cross check subban in the face and the refs stood idly by while Ottawa was getting away with murder.

Quote:
Therrien didn't adjust his PP to accommodate the pressure on Subban,
For one, we got so few PPs that I don't know if that was a huge difference in the series. The one time where we needed a PP goal was the 5 on 3 in the first game. And the key here, which has been the key all season, is for Markov to move the puck smartly and open up lanes for PK's insanely accurate and powerful shot. Markov played poorly in the playoffs and failed time and time again to do that. Despite that PK still scored a PP goal so you can't say it was a total failure. If anything with the number of total PP we got and the 1 PP goal Subban scored.. it would probably compare to the regular season in terms of ratio of PP goals/PP minutes played by Subban, too lazy to check.

And let's give credit where credit is due, I believe the sens had the best PK in the entire league. That starts with the goalie.

All of this doesn't matter though because your criticism is a little ridiculous. How do you make adjustments when you play 3 games in 4 nights ? When do you suggest the habs should have taken the time to practice the PP ?




Quote:
nor did he adjust our forecheck in the face of this added defensive pressure - I won't comment on the lines as injuries ran amok but Therrien stuck by them even when they were misfiring. Those are not simple adjustments granted, but the playoffs aren't simple and I had repeatedly stressed that our d-scheme is hyper-aggressive and exposes our goaltending and leaves our crappier d-men vulnerable. Well that's what happened.
If anything, having forwards be hyper aggressive on the forecheck is the best way to go about things when you have dmen who aren't big and aren't particularly good without the puck. You want to make sure to minimize the time the other team will spend in your zone. The best way to do that is put pressure in the O-zone and neutral zone with your forwards and try your best to prevent the puck from getting in our own zone. Not to mention our goalie who went stone cold in march, april and may.

If anything Therrien's system was the main reason why we were able to have success after finishing in the basement last season with essentially the same defense and goalie. He correctly identified what our strengths were (puck moving d corps, offensively talented dman who can make the PP work, lots of depth up front but no real superstar) and what our weaknesses were (small non-physical dman, lack of overall toughness).

We really got screwed by the reffing in the first 4 games. People don't like to hear that and think it's whining but it's the truth. All year we got more PPs because we spent more time in the O-zone than the D-zone. We forced other teams to take penalties. And we played the same way in the first 2 games. Despite that, we found ourselves at the short end of the stick most of the time in the penalties. Now I understand that reffing in the playoffs is different and has always been. But it's not a reason for the sens to get more PPs than us.That made little sense given that we spent most of the time in their zone in the first 4 games. Not to mention the Anderson flops not resulting in diving calls and resulting in disallowed goals while in the meantime prust gets cross checked in the back and called for diving. The reffing was a total joke.

There are no basis for your reasoning as far as I'm concerned. I find it to be complete lunacy to say that Therrien should be fire, and it's not much better to say Therrien got out-coached and is on a short leash.

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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Your obsession with me only exposes yourself, you embarrassed yourself in the Price threads daily about "soft goals" now you're following me around like a rain dog.
Not sure what you're talking about here. I was participating in this thread before you came in, center of the world much?

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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I don't want to keep bickering with you, so let's drop the personal insults.
You say let's drop the personal stuff after what you said up above? Please....

Look this isn't personal for me, it seems to be for you though with your paranoid delusion that I'm "following you around like a rain dog". Just saying. I'm ready to have honest discussions about stuff but I doubt that you are.

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05-11-2013, 01:00 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by LastRide View Post
MT coached the Pen's to the Stanley Cup finals and got fired. We don't have Crosby and Malkin. MT is an "ok" coach nothing more, nothing less. I'm sure MB won't fire him by default because we finished first.

The way some of you guys think. You can't fire a coach for finishing first, and you can't fire a coach because he has a crappy team to work with.
you can't fire a coach if you don't have any reason to.

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