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Would the Habs benefit from a Heavyweight enforcer? Part 3

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Old
05-10-2013, 12:44 PM
  #501
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Bryan Murray out GMed Marc Bergevin.
Hoping you're not serious here. How long has Murray been GM in Ottawa? Bergevin has said and recognized all along that he needed to add character and grit to last years' line-up and he added Prust, Bouillon and Armstrong and by doing so, the team went from 15th to 2nd in the East and that, in his first year as the Habs' GM. He was in on Clowe until the price got ridiculously high and he tried to pick-up Sestito off waivers for free, but the Canucks picked him ahead of him.

I have a feeling that your statement was made out of frustration and that you might re-think it when the puck drops next fall... I do trust that Bergevin will address this issue.

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05-10-2013, 01:41 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Hoping you're not serious here. How long has Murray been GM in Ottawa? Bergevin has said and recognized all along that he needed to add character and grit to last years' line-up and he added Prust, Bouillon and Armstrong and by doing so, the team went from 15th to 2nd in the East and that, in his first year as the Habs' GM. He was in on Clowe until the price got ridiculously high and he tried to pick-up Sestito off waivers for free, but the Canucks picked him ahead of him.

I have a feeling that your statement was made out of frustration and that you might re-think it when the puck drops next fall... I do trust that Bergevin will address this issue.
There is a reason I said Murray "out-GMed" Bergevin on the Do We Need An Enforcer? Thread.

The Habs were grossly out-muscled. Our skill players slashed, cross-checked, slammed to the ice, etc. and the Habs did not respond. We didn't respond because we have no one capable of a response.

Murray saw what the Bruins and Leafs were doing to get tougher. Despite having a heavy on the team with Neil, he went out and got Kassian for free. He was simply being proactive and keeping up with other teams in the East.

Bergevin saw all of this and did nothing. "Trying" is an excuse for losers. Results are what matters.

Kassian played the role he was given. The Sens collectively played their roles well. Their overall skill and yes, toughness, wore down the Habs.

Bergevin will have every chance to learn from this and improve this team. But in this series and in just looking at the dynamics of just these two teams, Murray wins hands down.

Hope you understand what I am saying. Comprehension on this thread is sorely lacking.

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05-10-2013, 01:51 PM
  #503
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Considering that acquiring Armstrong and Bouillon was adding thoughness, can only come from a Habs fan from the Gainey era.

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05-10-2013, 01:52 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
Considering that acquiring Armstrong and Bouillon was adding thoughness, can only come from a Habs fan from the Gainey era.
That has MT written all over it. Seems like the GM made the mistake of trusting his coach over his pro scouts. Never again, please.

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05-10-2013, 01:57 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
There is a reason I said Murray "out-GMed" Bergevin on the Do We Need An Enforcer? Thread.

The Habs were grossly out-muscled. Our skill players slashed, cross-checked, slammed to the ice, etc. and the Habs did not respond. We didn't respond because we have no one capable of a response.

Murray saw what the Bruins and Leafs were doing to get tougher. Despite having a heavy on the team with Neil, he went out and got Kassian for free. He was simply being proactive and keeping up with other teams in the East.

Bergevin saw all of this and did nothing. "Trying" is an excuse for losers. Results are what matters.

Kassian played the role he was given. The Sens collectively played their roles well. Their overall skill and yes, toughness, wore down the Habs.

Bergevin will have every chance to learn from this and improve this team. But in this series and in just looking at the dynamics of just these two teams, Murray wins hands down.

Hope you understand what I am saying. Comprehension on this thread is sorely lacking.
I fully understand what you're saying, I simply disagree with your assessment of Bergevin over Murray. Rome wasn't built in a day and the Habs have made huge strides in a short year. More to come. Bergevin has a plan and I fully trust that he'll address those issues in the off-season.

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05-10-2013, 01:59 PM
  #506
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Considering that acquiring Armstrong and Bouillon was adding thoughness, can only come from a Habs fan from the Gainey era.
Huh?

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05-10-2013, 02:01 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I fully understand what you're saying, I simply disagree with your assessment of Bergevin over Murray. Rome wasn't built in a day and the Habs have made huge strides in a short year. More to come. Bergevin has a plan and I fully trust that he'll address those issues in the off-season.
True.

Rome was not built in a day. But it took the Sens 5 days to destroy our neighborhood.

We will rebuild. Hopefully Bergevin uses reinforced building materials.

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05-10-2013, 02:04 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
and yet, second year now Sens dont make a single deadline acquisition.
You are an intelligent poster here. So am I and I know exactly why you typed this one-liner.

In return, I give you a one-liner response......



The Sens are a more complete team.

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05-10-2013, 02:14 PM
  #509
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The problem with our size is that it's the size in the top 6 causing the problem, a few small guys throughout your lineup is fine. I can't wait for the day where we no longer have pleks, gio, dd, Gallagher ect all playing in the top 6, ideally pleks, Gallagher stay, we trade the rest.

Too small in the top 6 and yes we need an enforcer.

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05-10-2013, 02:16 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
There is a reason I said Murray "out-GMed" Bergevin on the Do We Need An Enforcer? Thread.

The Habs were grossly out-muscled. Our skill players slashed, cross-checked, slammed to the ice, etc. and the Habs did not respond. We didn't respond because we have no one capable of a response.
I agree. We did really well in some areas. We had good periods of puck possession in their zone, but we weren't getting good shots a lot of the time. One thing I noticed a lot is how much trouble some of forwards had getting the rebounds. You could almost see a goal coming. The puck would bounce out in the vicinity of our players, a simple matter of shooting it but they would be outmuscled.

In game two we played really physical and it was nice to see, but when it went back into their building Ottawa showed us who the alpha male was with regards to the physical game and we really settled down a lot. Karlsson got nailed a few times here and there, but we should have been hammering him and Alfie and Turris.

I really like the addition of Prust this year. But Prust alone is not enough to make it painful to play against us.

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05-10-2013, 02:24 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
So we need a guy who at best doesn't hurt us and contributes a small amount.
They do contribute. That's why teams still have them. Do you think all these other GMs are the idiots and we're the ones who are right?

What I remember most from 2011 was not the hit on Pacioretty, but the game before that where the Bruins fought with us for kicks and stole our lunch money. In particular I remember Tom Pyatt having his face beaten in with an elbow pad. You might think its all about revenge, and sure some of it is, but even that is important. You think it is easy to do your job when you get your lunch money stolen everyday and no one does anything about it. It's demoralizing.

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05-10-2013, 09:26 PM
  #512
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Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
They do contribute. That's why teams still have them. Do you think all these other GMs are the idiots and we're the ones who are right?

What I remember most from 2011 was not the hit on Pacioretty, but the game before that where the Bruins fought with us for kicks and stole our lunch money. In particular I remember Tom Pyatt having his face beaten in with an elbow pad. You might think its all about revenge, and sure some of it is, but even that is important. You think it is easy to do your job when you get your lunch money stolen everyday and no one does anything about it. It's demoralizing.
I'll take Scotty Bowman's opinion over most of these other GMs and he said:

Quote:
You have to stand up to the other team, but if you have a guy that just specializes in fighting, itís a handicap.
Which also addresses your second point, what's important is that you stand up and fight back. It doesn't really matter if you win the fight or not.

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05-11-2013, 07:19 AM
  #513
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
So we need a guy who at best doesn't hurt us and contributes a small amount.

Honest question, if we had Kassian and Ottawa had Armstrong, how many think we would've won the series?
We may not have won the series, but, I think there is a better chance that we'd be talking about a game 6 right now and we wouldn't have had to endure 2 6-1 defeats in this series and I know Kassian isn't a goalie.

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05-11-2013, 07:24 AM
  #514
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I'll take Scotty Bowman's opinion over most of these other GMs and he said:



Which also addresses your second point, what's important is that you stand up and fight back. It doesn't really matter if you win the fight or not.
Scotty can say that, but, when he put Lupien & Bouchard or Chartraw on the ice to line up against O;Reilly & Wensink it was pretty clear to me that he understood what was supposed to happen.

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05-11-2013, 07:51 AM
  #515
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What this team needs is players that will crash the net we have enough skilled players to make plays and defenders to take good shot but as we saw in this serie saves are easy without traffic. Anderson coughed up a lot of rebounds in the first period of last game . So DD Gionta out , Clowe/Clarkson/Stalberg/Stewart/Bickell/Clowe in

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05-11-2013, 08:01 AM
  #516
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
True.

Rome was not built in a day. But it took the Sens 5 days to destroy our neighborhood.

We will rebuild. Hopefully Bergevin uses reinforced building materials.
as long as MB uses 2 X 4's that are at least 6 feet long, right now the habs are using 4 foot ones. (DD)

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05-11-2013, 08:01 AM
  #517
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I
Which also addresses your second point, what's important is that you stand up and fight back. It doesn't really matter if you win the fight or not.
That sounds nice and all, but people on this team are rarely standing up and fighting. Guys get run. No response. And you can't really blame them. Whenever they try they get their ***** handed to them.

After the Gryba hit on Eller, a B's fan commented on the main boards something along the lines of 'if that's the response from the Habs, Ottawa should throw more hits like that.'

Even Gauthier was starting to understand, which is why he brought in Staubitz. If I remember right, Plekanec and other players were asking management to bring in someone who could drop them. And players also said that they felt a lot more confident with Staubitz on the ice.

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05-11-2013, 08:24 AM
  #518
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Reality sucks, doesnt it? A lot of "non-enforcer" arguments were blown away in this series.

All I read all season long is that we dont need to waste a roster spot for an enforcer like Kassian or Bordeleau or anyone else.

And Kassian proved all of that to be nothing more than babbling.

Kassian did not HURT the Sens at all. Not a bit. He was a +1. He had 14 hits. He had a good fight. He played his role to perfection. And for dessert, he had two assists.

But he was a physical presence for the 4 games that he played. Karlsson was not even hit more than once or twice per game after the line brawl. No one retaliated against Gryba. He did his job.......and he was not a detriment to the Senators.

So yeah, Murray got Kassian for free and Kassian played his role well. Win to Murray.

After game one, Maclean dressed Kassian and turned him loose and ended up getting rent free access to Therrien's head for the rest of the series. Win to Maclean.

And finally, Kassian and the rest of the Senators pounded the **** out of our undersized team who did not have an answer to Kassian and Neil doing whatever they wanted to our skill players. We know who got the win tonight.

The big question that remains is if Bergevin closes his eyes and continues to take the position of the anti-enforcer crowd. Or, will he accept reality and get a Kassian type player on this team.
And for all of that, Montreal completely outplayed Ottawa in the first two periods of the final game. A couple of good breaks and some outstanding goaltending for Ottawa vs a couple of bad breaks and some mediocre goaltending for Montreal were a bigger difference than Kassian or Gryba.

Once Montreal's will was broken by those events, the game was over.

While I agree more size and muscle is important, let's not skew the facts to fit the conclusion.

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05-11-2013, 09:00 AM
  #519
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Neil-Smith-Kassian was probably the best line for Ottawa in the last game. That's sad for the habs when you get outplay by a 4th line just because of the physical aspect.

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05-11-2013, 09:01 AM
  #520
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Montreal started each game on fire. Ottawa mainly kept them out of prime scoring areas. As each game went along the Sens size would wear down the Habs and by the third period Ottawa would turn it up. Montreal got hardly any traffic in front of the net and no rebounds. Ottawa's D kept the front of the net clear for Anderson. If Anderson can see it he almost always stops it.

Ottawa played conservatively for the most part keeping the games close. This conserved energy for the third and as a result we scored half of our goals there.

Kassian was brought in after Druzinsky was knocked out in the Toronto game as a deterrent. Sens management didn't want Neil having to be our only fighter because he is too valuable to us on the ice. Smith, Neil, Cowen, Methot, Kassian, and Gryba can all fight and more importantly can play.

I was surprised that Kassian actually played vs the Habs because I thought he would be a liability. We didn't really need him this season because we have team toughness but we would rather him sit in the penalty box over any of the players stated above.

Montreal needs to target players in the draft that they can mold into those positions of need. Ottawa traded for Methot because he was from Ottawa and was a perfect match to play with Karlsson. Smith, Cowen, and Gryba were all picks who filled a role we needed with with Gryba actually being a surprise due to injuries. He pretty much will probably be on the roster next season as a result.

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05-11-2013, 09:46 AM
  #521
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
Montreal started each game on fire. Ottawa mainly kept them out of prime scoring areas. As each game went along the Sens size would wear down the Habs and by the third period Ottawa would turn it up. Montreal got hardly any traffic in front of the net and no rebounds. Ottawa's D kept the front of the net clear for Anderson. If Anderson can see it he almost always stops it.

Ottawa played conservatively for the most part keeping the games close. This conserved energy for the third and as a result we scored half of our goals there.

Kassian was brought in after Druzinsky was knocked out in the Toronto game as a deterrent. Sens management didn't want Neil having to be our only fighter because he is too valuable to us on the ice. Smith, Neil, Cowen, Methot, Kassian, and Gryba can all fight and more importantly can play.

I was surprised that Kassian actually played vs the Habs because I thought he would be a liability. We didn't really need him this season because we have team toughness but we would rather him sit in the penalty box over any of the players stated above.

Montreal needs to target players in the draft that they can mold into those positions of need. Ottawa traded for Methot because he was from Ottawa and was a perfect match to play with Karlsson. Smith, Cowen, and Gryba were all picks who filled a role we needed with with Gryba actually being a surprise due to injuries. He pretty much will probably be on the roster next season as a result.
This is what Bergevin needs to realize. Prust needs support. We don't want Prust to be our only fighter because he is too valuable on the ice.

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05-11-2013, 09:52 AM
  #522
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NO! We need top 6 BIG forwards that can crash the net and score.

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05-11-2013, 11:28 AM
  #523
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NO! We need top 6 BIG forwards that can crash the net and score.
But you can get both an enforcer and a big top 6 physical forward. They aren't mutually exclusive and ideally the Habs should try to get both.

In an ideal world you get a top 6 forward who also double as an enforcer like Lucic but those guys are rare and not easy to get. I wouldn't mind giving Zack Kassian a shot if the Canucks want to get rid of him during the summer.

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05-11-2013, 11:56 AM
  #524
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NO! We need top 6 BIG forwards that can crash the net and score.
We will trade you Latendresse for Gallagher. Problem solved.

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05-11-2013, 11:56 AM
  #525
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Originally Posted by CanadiensVault View Post
NO! We need top 6 BIG forwards that can crash the net and score.
Absolutely. And some kind of upgrade on defense as well. No one is saying that having an enforcer is the answer to all our problems.

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