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Hurricanes Off Season Thread: When Tlusty doesn't score 40, who will be to blame?

View Poll Results: When Tlusty doesn't hit 40 next year, whose fault will it be?
Eric Staal's Leadership 16 5.80%
Kirk Muller's Coaching 4 1.45%
Patrick Eaves' Shoe Collection 25 9.06%
Defense 5 1.81%
Lack of depth everywhere 5 1.81%
Special Teams 3 1.09%
No team toughness 10 3.62%
JR needs to go!!! 5 1.81%
NO FLAGS AT CENTER ICE!?! 203 73.55%
Voters: 276. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-10-2013, 04:03 PM
  #251
Boom Boom Anton
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Well, when I said a physical skilled winger, I didn't mean Dwyer.

Also, I'll be quite surprised if Rask is in the line-up next year. He didn't even stick with the Checkers this past season so I'd like to see him prove himself there first.

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05-10-2013, 04:05 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
But in terms of JStaal moving to wing, either on the first or second line it's anything but non-sensical. He is frankly not an effective playmaker regardless of how many assists he got in final 11 games. As I contended earlier, I'd rather have Ruutu center the second line which he did very well for the Skins and Finns line.

He isn't as good as JStaal defensively but that line shouldn't be playing a shutdown role anyway - build the 3rd line for that and keep Skinner on the 2nd line. Ruutu is far from elite but sees the ice better and is a better passer than Jordan.
I think maybe you are focused on how we used Sutter as a shutdown line, rather than the more popular one of Brindy.

Maybe think of the line roles more along the lines of 05-06, and imagine the following setup:

Tlusty-Staal-Semin ---- Stillman-Staal-Cole
???-Staal-Ruutu ---- Ladd-Brindy-Williams
Skinner-Monahan-??? ---- Whitney-Cullen-Larose

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05-10-2013, 04:11 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Well, when I said a physical skilled winger, I didn't mean Dwyer.

Also, I'll be quite surprised if Rask is in the line-up next year. He didn't even stick with the Checkers this past season so I'd like to see him prove himself there first.
I understand completely, Dwyer isn't quite the ideal physical winger . What he does bring to the table though is solid defenisve play, that of Jordan's capabilities according to some of the board. Ruutu and Staal may bring just enough physical presence to justify Dwyer being on that line. I like Ruutu on the left side because of his said vision and playmkaing, and Dwyer has proved some chemistry with Jordan this year.

That line would get the second most ice time IMO. We could start off Rask slowly in a third line, secondary scoring role. That line would lack speed of course, but Skinner could be a good mentor to the kid.

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05-10-2013, 04:13 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Well, when I said a physical skilled winger, I didn't mean Dwyer.

Also, I'll be quite surprised if Rask is in the line-up next year. He didn't even stick with the Checkers this past season so I'd like to see him prove himself there first.
To be fair, some of that may of had to do with the lockout. There was no chance for Bowman, Nash, Dalpe, Boychuk, Welsh, Wallace, etc... to play in the big league so they were all in Charlotte. With that many guys down on the farm there was no way Rask was going to get significant playing time which would have hindered his development.

I could be wrong, but I think he had to be sent back to juniors before a certain date in order to still be eligible. If that's the case then the team probably decided that since it was a short NHL season anyway (if there was one at all) it was best for him to get top line minutes in the WHL rather than fight for bottom 6 minutes in the AHL.

Now, what I can't answer is why he wasn't called up for the AHL playoffs like Murphy - but there may have been timing concerns there as well.

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05-10-2013, 04:20 PM
  #255
Boom Boom Anton
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To be fair, some of that may of had to do with the lockout. There was no chance for Bowman, Nash, Dalpe, Boychuk, Welsh, Wallace, etc... to play in the big league so they were all in Charlotte. With that many guys down on the farm there was no way Rask was going to get significant playing time which would have hindered his development.

I could be wrong, but I think he had to be sent back to juniors before a certain date in order to still be eligible. If that's the case then the team probably decided that since it was a short NHL season anyway (if there was one at all) it was best for him to get top line minutes in the WHL rather than fight for bottom 6 minutes in the AHL.

Now, what I can't answer is why he wasn't called up for the AHL playoffs like Murphy - but there may have been timing concerns there as well.
That's fair and probably came into play. But I've still question why people are pencilling him into the top 9. Haven't we learned our lesson with the likes of Boychuk, Dalpe, Bowman, Welsh, over the years? My guess is he'll need some AHL time, but one never knows.

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05-10-2013, 04:22 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by wallym View Post
I think maybe you are focused on how we used Sutter as a shutdown line, rather than the more popular one of Brindy.

Maybe think of the line roles more along the lines of 05-06, and imagine the following setup:

Tlusty-Staal-Semin ---- Stillman-Staal-Cole
???-Staal-Ruutu ---- Ladd-Brindy-Williams
Skinner-Monahan-??? ---- Whitney-Cullen-Larose
I'm focused on it because there simply is not the depth now to have your second line also be your default checking line and there is no wing close to the two-way ability Williams had.

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05-10-2013, 04:31 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
That's fair and probably came into play. But I've still question why people are pencilling him into the top 9. Haven't we learned our lesson with the likes of Boychuk, Dalpe, Bowman, Welsh, over the years? My guess is he'll need some AHL time, but one never knows.
I'd like to keep him as far away from Charlotte as he can get.

I heard its a prospect graveyard down there.

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05-10-2013, 04:39 PM
  #258
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I'd like to keep him as far away from Charlotte as he can get.

I heard its a prospect graveyard down there.
It is, we just buried another season.

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05-10-2013, 04:41 PM
  #259
Boom Boom Anton
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Well, maybe one of the reasons it's a graveyard is because it's filled with a bunch of stiffs to begin with?

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05-10-2013, 08:32 PM
  #260
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My wish to see Jordan at least *tried out* on the wing has nothing to do with any of his supposed deficiencies. It is because his strengths are that of a power forward, and that type of player is more suited to playing the wing, other than rare exceptions - but Jordan Staal is not Eric Lindros. I keep bringing this up, but the dude scored 29 goals as an 18-year-old rookie while primarily playing the wing and he's bulked up quite a bit since then. For all we know he is a 40-goal player from that position, right now.

Muller was a physical player who switched from center to wing earlier in his career, so I'm sure that dynamic has crossed his mind. Given a full offseason he'll probably tinker with a lot of things he didn't have time to before. So we'll see what happens.


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05-10-2013, 10:53 PM
  #261
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Where did he Canes develop the depth at center to move Jordan to wing? Has something changed since Riley ****ing Nas was a fixture at 3rd line center?

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05-10-2013, 11:50 PM
  #262
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Where did he Canes develop the depth at center to move Jordan to wing? Has something changed since Riley ****ing Nas was a fixture at 3rd line center?
Nash want return a second line.

If we move Jordan to wing, the options of 2nd line center are:

Skinner (lol)
Ruutu (LOL)
Nash ()
5th overall pick ()

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05-11-2013, 12:38 AM
  #263
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Yeah Jordan stays on the second. Maybe skinner goes to the third and the second and third lines play similar minutes. The 5th pick should be at most a winger on one of these second/third lines, and he should be blowing away his competition to get the job. If its even close send him back to get seasoned for a year. We know that won't happen.

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05-11-2013, 01:18 AM
  #264
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Vancouver's GM recently said on NHL Network that they plan on getting bigger and tougher to play against. That is the way the NHL is moving in his opinion. Sound familiar?

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05-11-2013, 01:42 AM
  #265
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Just like the NHL was moving in a direction where good goalies weren't needed after 2010.

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05-11-2013, 01:42 AM
  #266
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^

Yes, but it's an overreaction.

The problem I see with that bunch is a little similar to ours, in that they don't quite know who they are as a team. Instead of just playing their game, they got too concerned with overcoming some "finesse" tag given to them by the media, and took a bunch of stupid penalties trying to out-tough the Sharks. IMO it's much more of a mental toughness issue than a physical one.

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05-11-2013, 10:06 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
Nash want return a second line.

If we move Jordan to wing, the options of 2nd line center are:

Skinner (lol)
Ruutu (LOL)
Nash ()
5th overall pick ()
Yet Ruutu centered a very successful line with Skinner as one his wings. Again, he's not a great center but JStaal is far from one too. That's be a tough line to defend and gives more playmaking from center ice.

I still see a lesser version of Keith Tkachuk in Jordan. Yes, KT could play center but wasn't as effective there as on the wing (see his ATL days for a case in point).

Think of it this way. If you looked at his past season and prior ones in Pittsburgh and Jordan's last name was Smith, would everyone still insist that C is the only place for him? I think too many times guys are labelled and those labels become associated with them. Skill sets aren't comparable obviously but Ovechkin's move to RW sparked a huge resurgence. For years he was always thought of strictly as the prototypical LW.

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05-11-2013, 10:34 AM
  #268
dubplatepressure
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Instead of focusing on Jordan's weaknesses and trying to adapt the line to that, instead, why not play to his strengths. Jordan is a bull in a china shop (and I mean that in a good way). Even with an "elite playmaker", I don't expect him to light it up as he's not that type of player.

I still think the 2nd line could be very effective as a physical, hard to play against, bruising line that wears the other team down, is responsive defensively, and gets ugly goals by working hard in the corners and driving to the net. Personally, I'd like to see the Canes get another physical winger with decent skill to go along with Jordan and Ruutu.
Leafs fan coming in peace... didn't see a trade forum so just looking for a quick consensus.

In response to the above, we're obviously looking at moving up in the draft to grab that #1C we need. Calgary and Edmonton will likely hold their picks, as would Buffalo at #8.

Looking for opinions on the price for us to swap our ~20th for your 5th overall?

Kulemin seems to fill that 2nd line RW role - physical, all-hustle player. Had a bust year last year but upped his production this year back to the 40-50pt 2-way guy he is. Still has upside.

Gardiner is Gardiner, and I'm sure you all know him. He's back to looking great for us in the post-season so far.

So, we're looking at either Monahan or Lindholm with that 5th overall pick. What are your thoughts on Kulemin, Gardiner and our 1st for the 5th overall? Not enough? Enough to start the conversation?

Cheers.

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05-11-2013, 10:37 AM
  #269
Roboturner913
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Has something changed since Riley ****ing Nas was a fixture at 3rd line center?
I'm going to pretend this is not a rhetorical/snarky question.

The answer is yes. A lot of things have happened! Nash went down to Charlotte and Skinner was tried out at center, and - get this - actually looked pretty good there (I know, I know, it's inconceivable!!!) and admitted he's much more comfortable there.

Now combine that with the inescapable likelihood that our draft pick will probably be a center and expected to contribute immediately (in JR's own words).

So you've got one finesse guy who's more comfortable at center at wing, a rookie who's probably played nothing but center (and if it's Monahan, someone who by all accounts could be a very good checking line center), and a guy whose physical attributes not only make him an ideal power wing, but who has proven to be a 30-goal type player at that spot.

So, I ask you, why exactly should they *NOT* be tinkering with the lineup? I am not saying that's 100% definitely the way it should be, I'm saying give it a shot and see what happens.

Again, I will point out the fact that young Kirk Muller was a physical two-way center and a very similar player to Jordan Staal....who just happened to move to left wing and became a better player for it.


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05-11-2013, 11:04 AM
  #270
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Leafs fan coming in peace... didn't see a trade forum so just looking for a quick consensus.

In response to the above, we're obviously looking at moving up in the draft to grab that #1C we need. Calgary and Edmonton will likely hold their picks, as would Buffalo at #8.

Looking for opinions on the price for us to swap our ~20th for your 5th overall?

Kulemin seems to fill that 2nd line RW role - physical, all-hustle player. Had a bust year last year but upped his production this year back to the 40-50pt 2-way guy he is. Still has upside.

Gardiner is Gardiner, and I'm sure you all know him. He's back to looking great for us in the post-season so far.

So, we're looking at either Monahan or Lindholm with that 5th overall pick. What are your thoughts on Kulemin, Gardiner and our 1st for the 5th overall? Not enough? Enough to start the conversation?

Cheers.

I honestly think, at least based off what JR said in his presser at the end of the season, there's no way that we're going to move down. Our scouting basically sees this draft as having 6 very high (top 3-4 most years) level talents so sitting at #5 basically guarantees us one of them, most of us are thinking that'll be Monahan. On top of that our cap situation going into next season, with the changes we need to make on our blueline and our bottom 6 to make them tougher to play against, hurts this trades chances in a big way.

Basically it's a solid offer, but this isn't an ideal world where such a thing would make sense for the Canes.

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05-11-2013, 11:17 AM
  #271
Roboturner913
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I kind of like Kulemin's size and physicality on our second line, but it would be a big leap of faith to think he's still the same guy that scored 30 goals a couple years ago, rather than the guy who scored 7 the next year and a prorated 12 this year.

Gardiner is a nice piece but we already have too many puck mover types.

If I were the Leafs I'd be setting sights higher and trying to get McKinnon or Barkov.

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05-11-2013, 11:29 AM
  #272
dubplatepressure
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Originally Posted by Roboturner913 View Post
I kind of like Kulemin's size and physicality on our second line, but it would be a big leap of faith to think he's still the same guy that scored 30 goals a couple years ago, rather than the guy who scored 7 the next year and a prorated 12 this year.

Gardiner is a nice piece but we already have too many puck mover types.

If I were the Leafs I'd be setting sights higher and trying to get McKinnon or Barkov.
I hear you. When he was slotted beside Kadri they did quite well together, but Kadri's offense was a mis-match for Kule's 2-way/defense, and Carlyle split them up in favour of the checking line that was/is Komarov-Grabo-Kule.


I think Nashville will want/need the hype the prospect brings, and based on feedback here Tampa would demand Phaneuf or nothing for that #3 overall. I'd be prepared to do that, but it opens up a huge gap in our top-pairing, where we'd then have no real top-pairing D.

Anyway, fair enough, thanks for the feedback gents.

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05-11-2013, 12:00 PM
  #273
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I feel like some of us are forgetting that one year ago, Jordan Staal scored 31 goals and 59 points in 68 games while centering Matt Cooke and Tyler Kennedy. I certainly believe he can produce like that here with the right wingers and don't see the need to move him. MAYBE if Skinner turns out to be a better C than W (which I'm still skeptical about), he could play '3c', but his line would still be on the ice just as much, if not more than the 2nd.


On a side note, I love the way J-Staal and Skinner have been playing together at the WC's. I understand it's weaker competition, but if they keep it up, I wouldn't be upset to see them both back on the 2nd line.

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05-11-2013, 12:16 PM
  #274
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Skinner plays one game at center. Anointed a center for next year. You can't make this stuff up.

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05-11-2013, 12:22 PM
  #275
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I've said that a million times. I'd love to see the Canes go after Kennedy. Seems like he's on the outs in Pittsburgh anyway. Put Ruutu and Kennedy with Jordan to make a combo scoring-checking line, then build a 2B scoring line around Skinner and your draft pick.

And I don't want to hear that "you can't have a third-line center making $6 million!!" nonsense. It's a ridiculous argument that holds no relevance unless there is a drastic difference in ice time between the 2nd and 3rd lines, and based on what we saw late in the season that wouldn't be the case.

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