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New Arena deal agreed to by city and Katz group:mod warning #616

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Old
05-10-2013, 02:57 PM
  #926
HotToddy
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
If there's no team, there's no arena. So ignoring the reason behind all this constitutes cherry picking.

There is no risk involved in this project. It's going to make money for both Katz and the City. And of course you assume the city is stealing $500M for the project.
There's no risk??

Then why doesn't Katz just go to market and get the funds??

It's a 30 year payback, do you what kind of economic challenges can arrise in that time period? Take a look at the last 30 years

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05-10-2013, 02:59 PM
  #927
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[QUOTE=smackdaddy;65770287]Katz Funding: $146.5M
City Funding: $219M


The smoke and mirrors is obviously confusing you

City funding - all of it

Katz repayment over a significant period of time, which has very few guarantees attached to it and during which he can sell the team - 146.5 million

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05-10-2013, 03:01 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
There is no risk involved in this project.
Um, yeah, you're going to have to define what you mean by the term risk.

Because you're either a liar, horrifically ignorant, or you're not using the term risk the same way it's normally used.

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05-10-2013, 03:45 PM
  #929
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Would everyone here be happy if Katz just wrote the city a cheque for 115 million dollars for the rink and didn't pay "rent"?

Also does the city just take out a big ol debit card to pay the construction costs or do they just borrow and pay back over time like Katz is doing through them?

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05-10-2013, 03:50 PM
  #930
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Questions raised about Capital Region Board’s arena vote

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/techn...240/story.html

Hopefully they do a recount and that this gets voted down.

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05-10-2013, 04:06 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
If there's no team, there's no arena. So ignoring the reason behind all this constitutes cherry picking.

There is no risk involved in this project. It's going to make money for both Katz and the City. And of course you assume the city is stealing $500M for the project.
There was a team with local investors before Katz bought it, they didnt have money to invest in an arena but as Katz is showing you dont need any!

As for risk involved in this deal there is tons for the city. They've committed to investing as much money as they expect to gain from downtown revitalization created by the arena. If those projections fall short the city loses.

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05-10-2013, 04:07 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
Questions raised about Capital Region Board’s arena vote

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/techn...240/story.html

Hopefully they do a recount and that this gets voted down.
What do you stand to benefit from it being voted down?

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05-10-2013, 04:10 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
Questions raised about Capital Region Board’s arena vote

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/techn...240/story.html

Hopefully they do a recount and that this gets voted down.
Seems like simple math to me... 8 against and 16 for.... doesn't meet the standard of "more than 2/3rds or else it fails".

It's exactly 2/3rds for and 1/3rd against. Looks like once they sort that grade 1 level math issue out... it's dead in the water.

Where does that leave the arena deal? Completely dead?

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05-10-2013, 05:03 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
Questions raised about Capital Region Board’s arena vote

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/techn...240/story.html

Hopefully they do a recount and that this gets voted down.
They can't even count properly?

I'm in favour of the new arena but this entire process has been a complete embarrassment.

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05-10-2013, 05:11 PM
  #935
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They can't even count properly?

I'm in favour of the new arena but this entire process has been a complete embarrassment.
Agreed. I stopped paying very much attention to this ridiculous process months ago.

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05-10-2013, 07:19 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
Questions raised about Capital Region Board’s arena vote

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/techn...240/story.html

Hopefully they do a recount and that this gets voted down.
Seems like typical arena controversy/mumbo jumbo.

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05-10-2013, 07:32 PM
  #937
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[QUOTE=HotToddy;65771367]
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Katz Funding: $146.5M
City Funding: $219M


The smoke and mirrors is obviously confusing you

City funding - all of it

Katz repayment over a significant period of time, which has very few guarantees attached to it and during which he can sell the team - 146.5 million
Given Katz's contribution is over 30 years, I wonder what the actual value of his contribution would be in 2013 dollars assuming a standard rate of inflation. Clearly 3.5 million in 2040 won't be worth squat in 2013 dollars; more of the Katz-Mandell smokescreen.

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05-10-2013, 08:45 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Katz Funding: $146.5M
City Funding: $219M





No white knight thinking here, just the facts. It's a joint project that benefits the entire city. Please don't forget to visit http://www.edmonton.ca/city_governme...agreement.aspx so you can stop assuming Katz is not contributing to the project and the city is funding the entire thing. Being educated and informed on the matter can do wonders.
Daryl. or Bob, or John. Or whoever you are.
You are getting schooled .. Fold your tent

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05-11-2013, 03:57 AM
  #939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
There was a team with local investors before Katz bought it, they didnt have money to invest in an arena but as Katz is showing you dont need any!

As for risk involved in this deal there is tons for the city. They've committed to investing as much money as they expect to gain from downtown revitalization created by the arena. If those projections fall short the city loses.
financially, yes. but, this is not a 'business' deal for the City, residents and Oiler fans. this is a cultural deal.. a 'quality of life' thing.. in this God forsaken wasteland for 7 months a year. do pools make money? Rec centres? that would be 'no'. this is what is lost by the naysayers. will Katz make money from the arena? sure; about 20 million on a good year, could lose on a bad year, might average 10 mil/year. Katz will make his money peripherally. the people who will make money from the arena are the players. the Mark Fistrics will make 2 mil a year from the profits that the City does not get.

this is about shoring up NHL hockey in our city for 35 years, and building a spectacular architectural masterpiece in our city for the first time in its history. in fact, there is not one single world class architectural achievement in this province. we can be the first.

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05-11-2013, 08:42 AM
  #940
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Originally Posted by RustE View Post
financially, yes. but, this is not a 'business' deal for the City, residents and Oiler fans. this is a cultural deal.. a 'quality of life' thing.. in this God forsaken wasteland for 7 months a year. do pools make money? Rec centres? that would be 'no'. this is what is lost by the naysayers. will Katz make money from the arena? sure; about 20 million on a good year, could lose on a bad year, might average 10 mil/year. Katz will make his money peripherally. the people who will make money from the arena are the players. the Mark Fistrics will make 2 mil a year from the profits that the City does not get.

this is about shoring up NHL hockey in our city for 35 years, and building a spectacular architectural masterpiece in our city for the first time in its history. in fact, there is not one single world class architectural achievement in this province. we can be the first.
Sure but at what cost?

I've said it for quite awhile now but there is a deal to be made here but it shouldnt be one where the city pays for everything and Katz reaps all the reward. Just look at your conservative estimate, Katz averages 10 mil/year in profit and the city has to pay him $2 million a year for the first 10 to advertise? Shouldnt they get free advertising after buying him an arena?

Having the team in the city is a benefit for the city we can agree on that but Katz is getting side benefits off of this as well. He stands to make huge gains on the surrounding developments, likely ones that dwarf what he'll make on the hockey team. I think he has more to lose if he sells the team or moves it than if he ends up paying a bit more on this deal. The city shouldnt cave to his demands and he should be open to paying his share of the $55 million that hasnt been found yet. There are more palatable options out there, like making it contingent on how much the CRL generates.

Everyone gets too polarized about this and want to pick one side or the other but that's not what deal making is about, it's about compromise and finding something both sides can agree on.

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05-11-2013, 10:17 AM
  #941
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
I've said it for quite awhile now but there is a deal to be made here but it shouldnt be one where the city pays for everything and Katz reaps all the reward. Just look at your conservative estimate, Katz averages 10 mil/year in profit and the city has to pay him $2 million a year for the first 10 to advertise? Shouldnt they get free advertising after buying him an arena?
Maybe the city should pay for the whole thing if they want that type of leverage.

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05-11-2013, 10:29 AM
  #942
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Maybe the city should pay for the whole thing if they want that type of leverage.
As the poster suggests they are. Katz has no skin in the arena game, none. He merely pays back his portion on a loan, obtained through the city, who also *mitigates* his expenditure by city paying back a handsome 2M/year for 10 yrs for "advertising"
Katz also gets all proceeds for naming rights affiliated with the arena he doesn't own. Katz pays no taxes on the arena/entertainment development because he doesn't own it. Additionally of course Katz gets all of the revenues from all events in the new arena that he doesn't own. Perfect arrangement.

At no point in this deal is the arena actually costing Katz anything. lol that he was recently demanding an extra annual subsidy stipend from the city. He must sniff out all the simon says syncophants on council pretty well.

ps who would be at all surprised if Rosen, Farbrother, and or Mandel had close business ties with Katz in upcoming years.

Theres a chump here, and its the city, and what its left paying for.

Theres no reason beyond ego for the city to make this deal that now requires more money from the city.

This is not, in any way, a fair and equitable deal for the city.

But it is for Katz, no skin on the arena, and all revenue and payback and naming rights. The art of the deal, indeed.

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05-11-2013, 10:54 AM
  #943
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
At no point in this deal is the arena actually costing Katz anything. lol that he was recently demanding an extra annual subsidy stipend from the city. He must sniff out all the simon says syncophants on council pretty well.

ps who would be at all surprised if Rosen, Farbrother, and or Mandel had close business ties with Katz in upcoming years.

Theres a chump here, and its the city, and what its left paying for.

Theres no reason beyond ego for the city to make this deal that now requires more money from the city.

This is not, in any way, a fair and equitable deal for the city.

But it is for Katz, no skin on the arena, and all revenue and payback and naming rights. The art of the deal, indeed.
Then why doesn't the city just pay for the whole thing and not give Katz anything and end your ridiculous *****ing? Why don't *you* push for that?

Contrary to what you say, the fact of the matter is Katz is putting money into this project and because of that he gets a say about it.. All your "speculation" does is cloudy the facts of this deal for people who don't follow this closely. Kind of like the tea-party'ers of the US and there "govt is after our guns BS". You similarly twist facts into heresay by attempting to connect dots that may or may not exist but you claim it as proof. Sad really.

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05-11-2013, 11:47 AM
  #944
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Then why doesn't the city just pay for the whole thing and not give Katz anything and end your ridiculous *****ing? Why don't *you* push for that?

Contrary to what you say, the fact of the matter is Katz is putting money into this project and because of that he gets a say about it.. All your "speculation" does is cloudy the facts of this deal for people who don't follow this closely. Kind of like the tea-party'ers of the US and there "govt is after our guns BS". You similarly twist facts into heresay by attempting to connect dots that may or may not exist but you claim it as proof. Sad really.
He is pushing for that. Unfortunatly for him he is not on Katz payroll, nor is he in Katz pocket, like seemingly half of counsel is.

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05-11-2013, 11:56 AM
  #945
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Then why doesn't the city just pay for the whole thing and not give Katz anything and end your ridiculous *****ing? Why don't *you* push for that?

Contrary to what you say, the fact of the matter is Katz is putting money into this project and because of that he gets a say about it.. All your "speculation" does is cloudy the facts of this deal for people who don't follow this closely. Kind of like the tea-party'ers of the US and there "govt is after our guns BS". You similarly twist facts into heresay by attempting to connect dots that may or may not exist but you claim it as proof. Sad really.
Please indicate what I'm "twisting" or misrepresenting. I dare say I responded to such missive.

As for me "pushing" and getting involved my alderman is well aware of my stance on this issue and that he lied in his campaign, went directly against his campaign promises, and decided on his own, and without mandate, to vote for a funded arena. Something he stated clearly he would never support. Yeah, Sohi.

Tell me what one does with elected misrepresentation like this other than to make it expressly clear to as many people as possible including here online. In advance know ftr I've in the past substantiated Sohi's campaign pledges and statements as supporting documentation multiple times during this arena issue.


Last edited by Replacement: 05-11-2013 at 12:07 PM.
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05-11-2013, 12:57 PM
  #946
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Putting Replacement on ignore makes this thread much more bearable, although it's still unbearable.

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05-11-2013, 04:08 PM
  #947
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Originally Posted by DJ EarWax View Post
Putting Replacement on ignore makes this thread much more bearable, although it's still unbearable.
Whether you agree or disagree with his stance, Replacement makes well thought out and educated responses. Can you say the same?

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05-11-2013, 07:48 PM
  #948
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Whether you agree or disagree with his stance, Replacement makes well thought out and educated responses. Can you say the same?
I don't bother.

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05-11-2013, 09:22 PM
  #949
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I don't bother.
Cause no nuts = no facts

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05-11-2013, 09:59 PM
  #950
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Cause no nuts = no facts
Ya figured me out! Good for you!

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