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Bernier for Bernier...at the draft

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Old
05-11-2013, 09:59 AM
  #26
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Christ that is bad for the kings, like "Jump to Conclusions" mat bad

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Old
05-11-2013, 10:04 AM
  #27
Minor Boarding
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
As a Kings fan, I like New Jersey players. And I feel that Jonathan Bernier is an excellent goalie who A) we must trade before we get offer sheeted...there's too much a grey area of price for him where the compensation would be too low vs. his perceived by LA's trade value; and B) we think he's very good so we want to trade him to the East.

So, let's trade, NJ.

At the draft or sooner after the Kings playoff run:

To Los Angeles:
Ryan Carter
Steve Bernier
Johan Hedberg (NJ keeps .5 mil a year until the end of JH's salary)

To New Jersey:
Jonathan Bernier
Tyler Toffoli
Jordan Nolan


I believe Brad Richardson will be gone but Carter is an upgrade for him. If we lose Dustin Penner because he won't sign for less (I expect a multi-million dollar player to not only show up for the playoffs but also will help us both get to the playoffs and get us home ice advantage. I don't really think home ice is that big a deal but I want a player who will work hard all year, like all of the other LA players.), I think we'll be fine with Steve Bernier, Kyle Clifford, Dwight King and the upcoming Tanner Pearson.
Ryan Carter can take over for Colin Fraser for now but I have a feeling with Carter, Fraser may be re-energized...possibly King too if Carter centers him on the third line. For his salary and his playoff ability, he is a very good value and will fit in very well on the Kings.
Hedberg is a decent backup. I have NJ keep some salary as I feel we give up the better assets and we're up against the cap. Bernier made about .9 mil as well so that will help him fit in cap-wise and offset some trade value. (I believe Hedberg makes 1.4 mil.)

For New Jersey, you can platoon almost 50/50 with Jon Bernier and Martin Brodeur. When Brodeur hangs them up totally in a year or so, JB will be ready to play the next four or so. He's a RFA so LouLam can re-sign him to a medium term deal this season. NJ's successful run has always focused on good goaltending and defense You guys need scoring and Toffoli is NHL ready now. He is a dynamic scorer. I throw in Nolan who is a good grinder for your bottom lines since we took two players from there...he can play center or wing (he plays wing in LA).


What do you guys think?
Dear GOD IN HEAVEN, please make this guy stop.

Two 4th liners and a old veteran backup that had a bad season for
a young backup with starting potential, our best prospect in Toffoli and a young big 4th liner on an affordable contract with upside?



Horrendus proposal.

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Old
05-11-2013, 10:13 AM
  #28
lakai17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Did you read the post I quoted?

He said the Kings get nothing of value back. Carter/Bernier, as much as I hate them, are valuable bottom-6 players, IMO.

Obviously, this deal is pretty bad for LA. Doesn't mean the players they're getting back are worthless. That mentality seems to plague this section of the board, and it's ridiculous.
I agree, Steve Bernier is capable of playing second line minutes but goes under the radar when it comes to bottom six depth, it also appears many have yet to witness Tyler Toffoli. LA are good set offensive depth and would rather gamble on consistent top 6 depth with Toffoli.

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Old
05-11-2013, 10:15 AM
  #29
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We'll see how the playoffs finish out but it seems the demand for a goalie could be steadily rising.

I have to think one of Tor,Cal,Edm,NJ,Pitt,NYI,Phi will gamble on Bernier at the draft.

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Old
05-11-2013, 10:17 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
As a Kings fan, I like New Jersey players. And I feel that Jonathan Bernier is an excellent goalie who A) we must trade before we get offer sheeted...there's too much a grey area of price for him where the compensation would be too low vs. his perceived by LA's trade value; and B) we think he's very good so we want to trade him to the East.

So, let's trade, NJ.

At the draft or sooner after the Kings playoff run:

To Los Angeles:
Ryan Carter
Steve Bernier
Johan Hedberg (NJ keeps .5 mil a year until the end of JH's salary)

To New Jersey:
Jonathan Bernier
Tyler Toffoli
Jordan Nolan


I believe Brad Richardson will be gone but Carter is an upgrade for him. If we lose Dustin Penner because he won't sign for less (I expect a multi-million dollar player to not only show up for the playoffs but also will help us both get to the playoffs and get us home ice advantage. I don't really think home ice is that big a deal but I want a player who will work hard all year, like all of the other LA players.), I think we'll be fine with Steve Bernier, Kyle Clifford, Dwight King and the upcoming Tanner Pearson.
Ryan Carter can take over for Colin Fraser for now but I have a feeling with Carter, Fraser may be re-energized...possibly King too if Carter centers him on the third line. For his salary and his playoff ability, he is a very good value and will fit in very well on the Kings.
Hedberg is a decent backup. I have NJ keep some salary as I feel we give up the better assets and we're up against the cap. Bernier made about .9 mil as well so that will help him fit in cap-wise and offset some trade value. (I believe Hedberg makes 1.4 mil.)

For New Jersey, you can platoon almost 50/50 with Jon Bernier and Martin Brodeur. When Brodeur hangs them up totally in a year or so, JB will be ready to play the next four or so. He's a RFA so LouLam can re-sign him to a medium term deal this season. NJ's successful run has always focused on good goaltending and defense You guys need scoring and Toffoli is NHL ready now. He is a dynamic scorer. I throw in Nolan who is a good grinder for your bottom lines since we took two players from there...he can play center or wing (he plays wing in LA).


What do you guys think?
What the ****? Huge overpayment

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Old
05-11-2013, 10:24 AM
  #31
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Steve Bernier, Ryan Carter and Johan Hedberg all hold little to zero value. Bernier and Carter might fetch a mid round pick at best imo. Jonathan Bernier is going to get alot better return than that.

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Old
05-11-2013, 10:46 AM
  #32
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There should be a lot of demand to drive the price a lot higher than that.

NYI look like a great match. They should have plenty of attractive pieces that they can afford to move for Bernier.

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Old
05-11-2013, 11:22 AM
  #33
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I'm not sure all three of those players the Devils gave up would even come close to land Bernier alone.

I think the Devils might do well to talk to the Kings this offseason though. They have a glut of defensemen and D prospects and could use another forward and perhaps use that to discuss Bernier as well, but much to our chagrin it sounds right now that Lou is going to ride his AARP goalie tandem again next season.

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Old
05-11-2013, 11:36 AM
  #34
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Words don't describe how brutal this is.....

As a Devils fan, I take it and run.

I love Carter and Bernier, but both are nothing more than above average fourth liners. Bernier can be a good third liner, but Carter is primarily a fourth liner. He can fill in on the third line in spot duty but his proper niche is a fourth liner.

Every guy in that proposal to the Devils is young and is just as good if not better than each player on the Devils side, WITH the potential to be much better.

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Old
05-11-2013, 11:40 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
I can count on my fellow Kings fan to not insult me but still give me his opinion.



The Kings needs are more urgent than most and what they need most are high end role players for low cap hits. And they need a backup who will be around for a bit, is competent and also a low cap hit as we're up against it severely with the cap going down and Voynov going up up.

I feel HF in general way overvalues prospects, and both of these guys are B+ prospects, A- at best for Bernier, and undervalues top bottom sixers. For example, players like Stoll command millions and players like Gaustad are worth 1sts.

What the Kings need to do is get players that fit their system, keep the run going AND don't cause cap problems. These two forwards were all that in the playoffs last year. We could trade Bernier and Toffoli for sexier stuff. But sexier stuff will have much bigger cap hits and we already have an amazing top five players in our top six. We will also have to give Brown a raise too in the very near future.


The point of drafting BPA (or Lombardi BPA, which is MVPA) is that you can still trade that prospect's value for the parts you need. This is that kind of deal.


I'm curious to see what the NJ fans think about this...
Bottom six players are highly valuable to a team and to me, your bottom six is just as if not more important later on in the season that your top six. You can win games with a great top six, but you win championships when you have both a great top six and bottom six. However, their trade value is relatively low except for the extremely hyped guys like Prust and Gaustad.

By no means does the value of any of the Devils players come close to the value of the Kings players. Carter and Bernier are above average fourth liners and great role players, however, they are just that. You don't pay premium assets for these guys. Perfect example is Carter was a waiver wire pick up by New Jersey and Bernier was signed to an AHL deal before finally getting his NHL deal with New Jersey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildcatMapleLeafs28 View Post
Steve Bernier, Ryan Carter and Johan Hedberg all hold little to zero value. Bernier and Carter might fetch a mid round pick at best imo. Jonathan Bernier is going to get alot better return than that.
This exactly. Carter and Bernier's trade value is a mid-round pick, maybe a team may offer a third in a bidding war. However, their value to the Devils far exceeds that. However, it doesn't change his trade value.

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Old
05-11-2013, 11:48 AM
  #36
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Montreal tops this offer!

We offer:
-Travis Moen(a reliable 4th liner)
-Davis Desharnais(3rd liner?)
-Peter Budaj(a reliable veteran backup)
-We can even throw in a prospect not named Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Tnordi or Beaulieu.

Done?

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Old
05-11-2013, 11:48 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
As a Kings fan, I like New Jersey players. And I feel that Jonathan Bernier is an excellent goalie who A) we must trade before we get offer sheeted...there's too much a grey area of price for him where the compensation would be too low vs. his perceived by LA's trade value; and B) we think he's very good so we want to trade him to the East.

So, let's trade, NJ.

At the draft or sooner after the Kings playoff run:

To Los Angeles:
Ryan Carter
Steve Bernier
Johan Hedberg (NJ keeps .5 mil a year until the end of JH's salary)

To New Jersey:
Jonathan Bernier
Tyler Toffoli
Jordan Nolan


I believe Brad Richardson will be gone but Carter is an upgrade for him. If we lose Dustin Penner because he won't sign for less (I expect a multi-million dollar player to not only show up for the playoffs but also will help us both get to the playoffs and get us home ice advantage. I don't really think home ice is that big a deal but I want a player who will work hard all year, like all of the other LA players.), I think we'll be fine with Steve Bernier, Kyle Clifford, Dwight King and the upcoming Tanner Pearson.
Ryan Carter can take over for Colin Fraser for now but I have a feeling with Carter, Fraser may be re-energized...possibly King too if Carter centers him on the third line. For his salary and his playoff ability, he is a very good value and will fit in very well on the Kings.
Hedberg is a decent backup. I have NJ keep some salary as I feel we give up the better assets and we're up against the cap. Bernier made about .9 mil as well so that will help him fit in cap-wise and offset some trade value. (I believe Hedberg makes 1.4 mil.)

For New Jersey, you can platoon almost 50/50 with Jon Bernier and Martin Brodeur. When Brodeur hangs them up totally in a year or so, JB will be ready to play the next four or so. He's a RFA so LouLam can re-sign him to a medium term deal this season. NJ's successful run has always focused on good goaltending and defense You guys need scoring and Toffoli is NHL ready now. He is a dynamic scorer. I throw in Nolan who is a good grinder for your bottom lines since we took two players from there...he can play center or wing (he plays wing in LA).


What do you guys think?
Again no one of the worse proposals ive seen for jb and i ve been in most of the them. You think hes not worth a first plus when dean has said he wont trade him for less. I think you need to read the islander fans proposals and even then i think we get more. To me there offers blow this away. As for as needing cheap young role players whats wrong with adding from within. We have Andy Andreoff waiting to step up hes only 600k. Your trying to save money an u trade away a young offensive piece like toffolli your contradicting yourself. Also tradeing nolan another cheap young piece as much as i get frustrated with him He is one of the better 4th line players in the league. The kings need at least a first back to contine having player in the ahl to replace pieces as we nee them
ok lets see if any of this really saves us money cap wise
j b 1.250
nolan 575
toffolli 870
total 2,670

Hedberg 1.400
r carter .775
bernier 775
2.95

2.95 - 2.67 =280 000 - nj keep 500 k in slary saves 220k in cap saving

So we save 220 k in cap and we loose our best bargining chip in jb our best young and only top 6 forward prospect and one of the best 4th liners in the nhl on a great contract. I dont think this makes any sence sorry.

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Old
05-11-2013, 11:57 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post

I believe Brad Richardson will be gone but Carter is an upgrade for him. If we lose Dustin Penner because he won't sign for less (I expect a multi-million dollar player to not only show up for the playoffs but also will help us both get to the playoffs and get us home ice advantage.

What do you guys think?
LA have some of the best offensive depth in todays game. LA do not need to worry about the loss of Penner or Richardson, King and Nolan are only improving.

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Old
05-11-2013, 12:23 PM
  #39
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we're not a charity, come on

you guys already gave us Loki for free, I think that was generous enough

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Old
05-11-2013, 12:41 PM
  #40
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I don't think the value's that good for LA here, but OP brings up a valid point about the offer sheet. I really doubt LA can ask for any more than a 1st and 3rd because if JB signs any moderate-term offer sheet that high the Kings would be loath to match.

And I'm sure JB would sign such an offer sheet. He's sat the bench long enough. It's gotta be go time on moving him.

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05-11-2013, 12:48 PM
  #41
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Take Toffoli and Hedberg out.

Ryan Carter
Bernier
3rd

for

JBernier
King (or Nolan)
rights to Holloway

Rorschach in your original offer we give up way too much. I suck at proposals but it just looks like we give up significantly too much.

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Old
05-11-2013, 12:52 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Weekes Notice View Post
I don't think the value's that good for LA here, but OP brings up a valid point about the offer sheet. I really doubt LA can ask for any more than a 1st and 3rd because if JB signs any moderate-term offer sheet that high the Kings would be loath to match.

And I'm sure JB would sign such an offer sheet. He's sat the bench long enough. It's gotta be go time on moving him.
The Kings will match up to $4m so the compensation would be a 1st +3rd anyways. No need to deal him when a signed JB would bring us back a first and a third at least anyways.

If someone offers more then the comp goes up so we still sit in the drivers seat. No real motivation for us to make a rushed deal.

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Old
05-11-2013, 12:57 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
The Kings will match up to $4m so the compensation would be a 1st +3rd anyways. No need to deal him when a signed JB would bring us back a first and a third at least anyways.

If someone offers more then the comp goes up so we still sit in the drivers seat. No real motivation for us to make a rushed deal.
Well sure, that's mostly what I'm saying. LA will get around a 1st and 3rd worth of value for him either way, and he'll move this summer. But I've seen suggestion of 1st + 2nd, 1st + good prospect, and I don't see it.

The guy wants to start, he's earned the opportunity. I can't imagine he would, say, resign with LA under the assumption he'd get traded in time, because he hasn't been yet. He's got some leverage now and I'd imagine Lombardi wants to move on it before JB feels the need to use it.

So I'm just saying I think offer sheet is a very very real possibility, and that probably moves the trade discussions along a bit quicker for LA.

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Old
05-11-2013, 12:57 PM
  #44
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The worst part is the inclusion of Toffoli. Why? Don't think this proposal was thought out much, or it's a bad joke that went over many people's heads.

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05-11-2013, 03:12 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The worst part is the inclusion of Toffoli. Why? Don't think this proposal was thought out much, or it's a bad joke that went over many people's heads.
It definitely went over mine.

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Old
05-11-2013, 09:25 PM
  #46
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There's just no way the Devils can get in there. Bernier for Bernier? This takes the cake.

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05-11-2013, 09:36 PM
  #47
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How about a trade like:

To edmonton: Orpik
To la: 2013 2nd round, Anaheim 2nd round, domoulin, pittsburghs 3rd in 2014
to pitt: bernier

Oliers fans were okay with orpik for that much, would la like the value?

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Old
05-11-2013, 09:52 PM
  #48
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this stops at Toffoli....no way DL trades away a key future piece. JBernier is obvious and why he will be moved. TT, no way in hell.

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Old
05-11-2013, 09:59 PM
  #49
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Double brutal. Just no. Nope. No. No way.

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Old
05-11-2013, 10:49 PM
  #50
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So we trade a young starter goalie and a top line sniper
for 2 bottom line role players ????

Thank godness you are not our manager

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