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Brad Richards Part II

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05-11-2013, 01:34 PM
  #401
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The Rangers can't find themselves in the situation Minnesota will be in this summer.

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Teams get two compliance buyouts over the next two offseasons. The Wild might try to use one on Dany Heatley. That would free $7.5 million in cap space. But he had season-ending shoulder surgery and teams can’t buy out injured players.
http://www.startribune.com/sports/wi...1.html?refer=y

Minnesota needs to free up money. Amnestying Heatley(1 year remaining) would go a long way to filling other needs. That shoulder surgery complicates the issue. Richards is under contract for 7 more years. The Rangers can't take risk Richards suffering an injury which requires season ending surgery next season or a season ending injury/long term injury. If Richards was still an above average player,you would have a chance to justify keeping him next season and then possibly using the remaining compliance buyout. Richards would give the Rangers a fold the fort player for another year which gives JT Miller,Oscar Lindberg and Boo Nieves another year of development if the plan was keeping Richards for 13-14. That's out the window. Richards has fallen off the map. Torts likes to bang Kreider for this and for that. Torts said Kreider was "god-awful" at times. Richards is worse than that. Gorton covered the Rangers by acquiring Brassard in the Gaborik trade.

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05-11-2013, 01:36 PM
  #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Another yes man in charge. Gorton is nothing more than merely a puppet for Glen Sather.
Not really.

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05-11-2013, 01:40 PM
  #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Another yes man in charge. Gorton is nothing more than merely a puppet for Glen Sather.
Do they sell tickets to pedestrians to look inside the war-room or are you just making things up? I'd guess the latter.

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05-11-2013, 01:45 PM
  #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
Do they sell tickets to pedestrians to look inside the war-room or are you just making things up? I'd guess the latter.
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Gorton previously served four seasons with the Rangers, including as assistant director of player personnel for the last three seasons. In his expanded role, he will assist Sather on all player transactions and contract negotiations. He will also continue his involvement with the club’s professional and amateur scouting operations.
http://www.hockeyjournal.com/2011/12...assistant.html

Why should I believe there will be change?

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05-11-2013, 01:49 PM
  #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
http://www.hockeyjournal.com/2011/12...assistant.html

Why should I believe there will be change?
You wouldn't believe in change if they wiped MSG off the face of the Earth with a cruise missile.

This quote you pulled out doesn't tell me anything other than he is currently working under Sather. As far as I'm concerned, Sather is still the GM.

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05-11-2013, 01:54 PM
  #406
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I'm sure they'll be discussing Richards as they'll be discussing every other Ranger on the roster. Sather as the GM is going to have somewhat more power over the final decision. How Gorton becomes a yes man out of this I don't know. I expect he'll have his say--whether or not it's acted on is another thing.

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05-11-2013, 01:55 PM
  #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
http://www.hockeyjournal.com/2011/12...assistant.html

Why should I believe there will be change?
That proves that he's a "yes man" how...?

Look at the moves Gorton has made in the past with Boston. Raycroft for Rask. He was behind the Gaborik trade, which has been an unbelievably good trade for this team (waiting for your romanticization of Gaborik).

I guarantee that if Gorton is officially made the GM of the team this season, we will be far better off than before.

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05-11-2013, 01:55 PM
  #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
You wouldn't believe in change if they wiped MSG off the face of the Earth with a cruise missile.

This quote you pulled out doesn't tell me anything other than he is currently working under Sather. As far as I'm concerned, Sather is still the GM.
RangerBoy quoted last page that Rick Carpiniello believes Gorton has taken over as day-to-day transaction of the franchise.

Him and Sather have worked together for many years.

I would've believed in change if they got someone from a respectable franchise, not retreading the same **** and hoping it sticks. Dallas robbed Jim Nill.

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05-11-2013, 01:58 PM
  #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
RangerBoy quoted last page that Rick Carpiniello believes Gorton has taken over as day-to-day transaction of the franchise.

Him and Sather have worked together for many years.

I would've believed in change if they got someone from a respectable franchise, not retreading the same **** and hoping it sticks. Dallas robbed Jim Nill.
Thing is, we don't even know if that's true and just because he was Sather's subordinate doesn't make him Glen Sather.

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05-11-2013, 01:59 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
That proves that he's a "yes man" how...?

Look at the moves Gorton has made in the past with Boston. Raycroft for Rask. He was behind the Gaborik trade, which has been an unbelievably good trade for this team (waiting for your romanticization of Gaborik).

I guarantee that if Gorton is officially made the GM of the team this season, we will be far better off than before.
Was he also behind the move of trading potentially 3 high picks or Ryane Clowe? Or are we supposed to ignore that?

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05-11-2013, 02:02 PM
  #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Was he also behind the move of trading potentially 3 high picks or Ryane Clowe? Or are we supposed to ignore that?
That move reeks of Sather. Older veteran player that is tough and big.

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05-11-2013, 02:04 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
Thing is, we don't even know if that's true and just because he was Sather's subordinate doesn't make him Glen Sather.
Right, and we don't know if he'll be much different. He was an Assistant Director of Player Personnel from 08-11 before being promoted to assistant GM. In those years, the Rangers made no strides and had taken on heavily bloated contracts from free agency. Gorton and Clark scout these players to make the Rangers a better team and both have been very mediocre results wise.

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05-11-2013, 02:07 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
That move reeks of Sather. Older veteran player that is tough and big.
But I thought Sather was still recovering during TDD? Wasn't Gorton operating the franchise while he was gone? Gorton it seems, was also behind the Ryane Clowe move then.

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05-11-2013, 02:07 PM
  #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Was he also behind the move of trading potentially 3 high picks or Ryane Clowe? Or are we supposed to ignore that?
None of the three picks were high picks.

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05-11-2013, 02:07 PM
  #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Rangers can't find themselves in the situation Minnesota will be in this summer.



http://www.startribune.com/sports/wi...1.html?refer=y

Minnesota needs to free up money. Amnestying Heatley(1 year remaining) would go a long way to filling other needs. That shoulder surgery complicates the issue. Richards is under contract for 7 more years. The Rangers can't take risk Richards suffering an injury which requires season ending surgery next season or a season ending injury/long term injury. If Richards was still an above average player,you would have a chance to justify keeping him next season and then possibly using the remaining compliance buyout. Richards would give the Rangers a fold the fort player for another year which gives JT Miller,Oscar Lindberg and Boo Nieves another year of development if the plan was keeping Richards for 13-14. That's out the window. Richards has fallen off the map. Torts likes to bang Kreider for this and for that. Torts said Kreider was "god-awful" at times. Richards is worse than that. Gorton covered the Rangers by acquiring Brassard in the Gaborik trade.
You make a good point here. Question: does the buyout have to happen over the summer, or can it be anytime before next summer?

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05-11-2013, 02:09 PM
  #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
But I thought Sather was still recovering during TDD? Wasn't Gorton operating the franchise while he was gone? Gorton it seems, was also behind the Ryane Clowe move then.
It is quite possible that Sather instructed Gorton to make the move.

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05-11-2013, 02:10 PM
  #417
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None of the three picks were high picks.
Essentially 3 2nd rounders. 1 3rd from the Panthers, which is like 62nd overall. The Sharks moved the 62nd pick for Raffi Torres, a better player than Clowe.

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05-11-2013, 02:12 PM
  #418
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Yea and 2nd rounders are extremely overrated around here. And Raffi Torres is not close to the player Clowe is. Torres has not had over 40 pts since 05-06 (and never was on pace too). Clowe has not had under/been under pace for 40 pts in any season of his career except his 18 game rookie season and this one.

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05-11-2013, 02:12 PM
  #419
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
You make a good point here. Question: does the buyout have to happen over the summer, or can it be anytime before next summer?
It has to take place within regular buyout periods. Unlike the "accelerated compliance buyout" of Gomez/Redden, which was exception that was made to get these players playing in the NHL again.

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05-11-2013, 02:14 PM
  #420
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
It is quite possible that Sather instructed Gorton to make the move.
Perhaps. Then that means we also have to give Sather credit for being behind the Gaborik trade then.

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05-11-2013, 03:00 PM
  #421
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Quote:
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None of the three picks were high picks.
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Yea and 2nd rounders are extremely overrated around here.
Maybe they're overrated with the way they get thrown around in trade proposals but I think a second round pick is a very valuable asset. Fedor Tyutin, Brandon Dubinsky, Michael Sauer, Artem Anisimov, and Derek Stepan were all successful second round draft picks since 2000. The jury is out on Christian Thomas but he scored 19 goals in his first professional season. Boo Nieves had an outstanding freshman season. Oscar Lindberg was a Phoenix second round draft pick in 2009.

Obviously there's a long list of counterexamples of failed second round picks, but the chances of landing a good NHLer are significant enough to make them valuable assets.

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05-11-2013, 03:13 PM
  #422
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Yea and 2nd rounders are extremely overrated around here. And Raffi Torres is not close to the player Clowe is. Torres has not had over 40 pts since 05-06 (and never was on pace too). Clowe has not had under/been under pace for 40 pts in any season of his career except his 18 game rookie season and this one.
Torres is a better player right now than Clowe is, ask Sharks fans who's been more effective this season.

2nd rounders are not overrated. The Rangers have done a good job with their drafting in the 2nd round in recent years.

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05-11-2013, 03:24 PM
  #423
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Randomness. Look at the overall success rate of 2nd rounders instead of a small sample of recent Ranger picks. Largely they turn out to be nothing, or bottom line players, and then rarely very good players. Which leads to two options

1. The Rangers scouts are just so much better than the league average that they are able to identify who the best players will be 3-4 years down the road will be in the 2nd round and get a significantly better player than average. (There's been an article written about how this is highly unlikely to be true regarding the NFL draft several weeks back)

2. By chance the Rangers happened to have made picks that turned out to be more successful than other teams in the last several seasons.

Believe what you want but I'm highly more likely to think that its option 2 rather than 1.

And Torres is not a better player now than Clowe is. Why are you comparing Torres vs Clowes worst season of his career? This is the same as everyone saying Cally > Gaborik and all sorts of players > Gaborik since he had an off season. Additionally Torres has only played 15 games for the Sharks so asking their fans to judge him now is unfair. That's like saying Brassard is roughly a top 10-15 center in the league because of how great he's been in the 18 ames he's played as a Ranger

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05-11-2013, 03:35 PM
  #424
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The most logical conclusion is that Gorton and Sather agreed on trading Gaborik and trading for Clowe. If they disagreed that much through the years, do you think they would still be working as boss and heir? The reason it makes sense to me is that if they asked my opinion, I would have made both trades. And I sure as hell didn't do as much due dilligence on Moore and others as the Rangers apparently did.

Sather is staying with the Rangers in hopes of winning one more Cup to burnish his legacy. This year, next year, maybe even 3-4 years. He gets to live large in Manhattan. His boss loves him. who wouldn't stay? I am sure Gorton wouldn't have been promoted to Asst GM, moved to NY and given so much authorithy if he wasn't the hand picked heir. He could have long since had his own team somewhere else.

And as for Richards, that's a tough, tough call. Keep in mind there will probably be 15-20 buyouts this summer and some very good players on the market. There will be bargains. If Sather AND Gorton think he's washed up at 33, they will pull the trigger and be able to replace him with a very good (Marian Hossa?) player at a discounted price.

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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Torres is a better player right now than Clowe is, ask Sharks fans who's been more effective this season.
Oh and I couldn't let this one go by.

No, he is not.

Did anyoNe by chance notice how well Clowe played in game 4?


Last edited by bobbop: 05-11-2013 at 03:43 PM.
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05-11-2013, 03:46 PM
  #425
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2nd rounders are far from a sure thing...but for anyone to argue they aren't valuable is just silly.

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