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Sakic Takes Over All Hockey Operations

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05-10-2013, 08:01 PM
  #526
Hans Landaskog
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I get the impression that EL was calling the shots, and Sherman was just doing his job. It's really hard to say from an outsider's point of veiw. I'm giving Sherman the benefit of the doubt considering from the sounds of things his job description fits his skill set.

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05-10-2013, 08:04 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
No problem with that , but when you start all over again and want to bring a winning culture to the team, bring new guys and get rid of the ones that were part of the losing seasons . You look infront of you and it's all about winning from now on, a fresh start with no reminder of what happend . To me , Sherman is that "reminder" ( even if he did good moves ) and that's why i dont understand why he's still in place .
Perhaps he was mostly the face for the hockey moves and it was other people having big impact on those? Avs never made a secret that they did group decisions and with EL and PL gone, the group has changed. If Sherman wasn't the problem and is good at the things he'll be doing going forward there is no reason to remove him.

Every team needs a guy responsible for CBA, contracts, rosters, business and so on. Even if Sakic would become GM, Avs would need a guy like Sherman as assistant GM.

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05-10-2013, 08:08 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by GeoffL19 View Post
Eric calling the shots would explain why Sacco lasted as long as he did, since it was stated that they were friends and EL believed in him.
Sacco lasted as long as he did because he

1) Excelled in his first year as a coach. (though as we all can see right now that is largely due to Craig Anderson being able to be a top tier NHL goalie when he wants)

2) Was part of a rebuilding process and as such had some lead time on getting the team to perform.

3) Regarding his 1 year contract, given how poorly Duchene played last year, 2011-2012, the injuries, and the shakeups that came with the Johnson and Varlamov trades, Sacco deserved this season to see what he could do.


Outside of questioning if Sacco perhaps should have been fired late this season, I think it is foolish to say that he did not deserve the 4 year run. Most rebuilding teams do not see a turn around for 3-4 years after the rebuild starts. Sacco deserved the chance to see that through.

As for PL, people calling him out for not living in Denver, perhaps that is somewhat to blame for the Avs issues, but when he stepped back several years back I think he fully intended to retire. I really believe that he was almost forced back into the role by Stan and took the role reluctantly. It is also worth noting that he was the president, not the GM. I guess the president is ultimately responsible for hiring and firing at the top end, but outside of setting the general direction of the team, the day to day operations and all hockey choices should be made by the GM and coach. The President does not need to be there every day. IMO the President is simply the representative of the team from a business perspective, and that means the person in that role does not need to be around the team at all times unless something is really going wrong and a housecleaning is required.

Its a bit strange in that the Avs seem to be flipping Sherman and Sakic's job titles around here, but that is basically what they are going to do. Joe is going to be the guy with all the hockey motivations, along with Billington, and Sherman will be the money man and the business person.

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05-10-2013, 09:12 PM
  #529
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Look back at the Avalanche press conference thru famous and key quotes and best photo moments.

http://eurolanche.com/article.php?id=3032

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05-10-2013, 10:07 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
No problem with that , but when you start all over again and want to bring a winning culture to the team, bring new guys and get rid of the ones that were part of the losing seasons . You look infront of you and it's all about winning from now on, a fresh start with no reminder of what happend . To me , Sherman is that "reminder" ( even if he did good moves ) and that's why i dont understand why he's still in place .
If Sherman was actually the one calling the shots the past four years then I'd agree, but I don't think he was. There's been multiple mentions of a brain trust over the years, Sherman was likely the point of contact and key negotiator. I honestly don't think his day-to-day duties are any different today than they were yesterday.

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05-10-2013, 10:25 PM
  #531
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2) A core group is needed, including a top level goaltender, according to Sakic, which suggests he may be looking at making moves in that regard (Miller? Luongo?). Sakic clearly said having a great goaltender is key to winning. Unfortunately, the sheepish media in Colorado threw him softball questions and didn't follow up on that.
I didnt take his comments to mean he was unhappy with Varlamov, I took that as a show of faith in him. With him saying that they're committed to a championship, and his comments before the season that the team needs to take the next step, i saw that as confidence in players like Varlamov, EJ, Duchene, Landeskog, etc.

We have a goaltender in Varly that has the talent within himself to be a Stanley Cup winning goaltender, we don't need Miller or Luongo

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05-10-2013, 10:28 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
I didnt take his comments to mean he was unhappy with Varlamov, I took that as a show of faith in him. With him saying that they're committed to a championship, and his comments before the season that the team needs to take the next step, i saw that as confidence in players like Varlamov, EJ, Duchene, Landeskog, etc.

We have a goaltender in Varly that has the talent within himself to be a Stanley Cup winning goaltender, we don't need Miller or Luongo
We can't take either of them anyways without screwing ourselves. Miller will walk after this season. Plus if we took on Loungo we'd have three goalies with one way contracts for the upcoming season.

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05-10-2013, 10:50 PM
  #533
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We can't take either of them anyways without screwing ourselves. Miller will walk after this season. Plus if we took on Loungo we'd have three goalies with one way contracts for the upcoming season.
Unless you get Miller to sign a new contract prior to the trade and/or Varlamov or Giggy are part of a Lou trade.

After what just happened to the Nucks in the playoffs, if I were the GM in Van, I would love nothing more than to be getting an insurance goalie just in case. (either Giggy or Varly) Nucks would have the benefit of having Varly on the bench until the trade deadline and then probably move him for a decent return if they wanted to a team seeking a goalie.

Buffalo would probably also not be opposed to Varly being part of a Miller deal. I would also not put it beyond the powers of Sakic ( and maybe Roy? ) to get him to sign a new deal as part of the trade. Could also be a Lindy Ruff connection if the Avs go that route. Stastny and Varly for Miller?

That said I do not see either move happening. Varly is still very young and can turn that corner still...and there are 4 goalies in the system of whom all 4 have the potential to turn into a true superstar goalie at the NHL level.

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05-10-2013, 10:55 PM
  #534
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I don't think Varly is going anywhere.

I hope Sakic tries to fix the mess in front of him. Which will be kind of weird since Sherman (or maybe EL) brought them in.

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05-10-2013, 11:01 PM
  #535
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Could you see Joe Sakic going to Pat Roy's office after season 3 and telling Patrick Roy your Fired?Hope security is near

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05-10-2013, 11:06 PM
  #536
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I think Joe was just explaining how you build a team, and people are reading too much into it. This organization knows how good Varly can be. I will say I can see next year being a make or break year for him.

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05-10-2013, 11:39 PM
  #537
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I really like these changes...the last few years I think it was EL calling the shots and it obviously wasn't working (I think it all came to the climax this season with the bottom finish and the ROR debacle). Now we are going to have JK taking a more hands on approach with the team and will probably begin spending more as time goes on, Sakic taking care of what he knows and seems to have an idea of where he wants to go with the team, and Sherm is doing what he knows with numbers and such (which is what he was doing in the first place, he just has the GM title now, still a glorified accountant).

It seems like with the Lacroix's being phased out and the franchise beginning to start over in the front office, they are ready to put the full effort into bringing this team back into contention. I really think this is was rock bottom and now the franchise can only go up.

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05-11-2013, 01:21 AM
  #538
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
I'll leave this here....

JoshuaCooper ‏@JoshuaCooper 2m
If the Roy/Colorado rumors are true, remember, Roy and Radulov got along famously with Quebec when Radulov was a junior
he has enough talent to be a top NHL star, but he doesn't even try to play defense. like, he doesn't even make an attempt to claim he tried on a shift to play D.

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If the Avs continue with modeling their moves to the Broncos, their next step would be to hire a recently fired NHL coach who had early success, took his team to the finals, though lost, and then went downhill from there. Who is the NHL's equivalent of John Fox?
that's not a likely scenario for the NHL though. Fox started losing badly in Carolina because ownership stopped spending anything on the team and was building towards getting really cheap on salary and then building it back up.
and Fox didn't get fired, his contract expired and was not re-signed.

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Originally Posted by Ceremony View Post
“Beginning today, I will be assuming the responsibilities as Avalanche team President,” said Kroenke. “Having had the privilege of learning under a mentor like Pierre Lacroix, and then spending the past few seasons as Governor, I feel ready to become much more involved on a daily basis.”

“I am thrilled to announce that Joe Sakic has agreed to become Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations for the Avalanche,” continued Kroenke. “In that role, Joe will be in charge of all hockey-related decisions moving forward. With his credentials, presence and knowledge of the game, Joe will be a key ingredient in making sure that together we reach our future goals.”

“I am excited for what lies ahead for our hockey club,” said Sherman. “The fact that both Josh and Joe have taken on larger roles speaks to their belief about what this franchise is capable of achieving.”

Kroenke, 33, has spent the last three years as the Avalanche’s Governor, working closely with the organization and Kroenke Sports & Entertainment executives on multiple business operation issues.

http://avalanche.nhl.com/club/news.h...id=DL|COL|home

Saying he knows nothing about hockey is, well, flat out wrong.
sounds like he wants to roll his sleeves up and figure out what exactly went wrong with the team. he's probably tired of getting accused of not caring and wants to show he does indeed care and will work to right the ship.
of course, it doesn't help that this season is bad for FA in terms of getting a really good player who is still somewhat young.

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Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
No problem with that , but when you start all over again and want to bring a winning culture to the team, bring new guys and get rid of the ones that were part of the losing seasons . You look infront of you and it's all about winning from now on, a fresh start with no reminder of what happend . To me , Sherman is that "reminder" ( even if he did good moves ) and that's why i dont understand why he's still in place .
i look at this in the same manner as i look at a losing team promoting a guy from within who was underneath the guy who presided over the losing era.
i'm not a fan of it but i believe that if the person was not a huge factor in the decision making in terms of advice and final say then it can work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
I didnt take his comments to mean he was unhappy with Varlamov, I took that as a show of faith in him. With him saying that they're committed to a championship, and his comments before the season that the team needs to take the next step, i saw that as confidence in players like Varlamov, EJ, Duchene, Landeskog, etc.

We have a goaltender in Varly that has the talent within himself to be a Stanley Cup winning goaltender, we don't need Miller or Luongo
i think he just has Roy on the brain and was stuck on speaking of goalies

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05-11-2013, 01:39 AM
  #539
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Could also be a Lindy Ruff connection if the Avs go that route. Stastny and Varly for Miller?

That said I do not see either move happening. Varly is still very young and can turn that corner still...and there are 4 goalies in the system of whom all 4 have the potential to turn into a true superstar goalie at the NHL level.
If they made that trade I would be massively pissed. Miller's play hasn't been any better or more consistent than Varly's over the last couple years.

Luongo I would be down for, but not that freakin headcase Miller. The last thing we need is Miller throwing the team under the bus every 10 games.

Jiggy did it but hes not the type do go there first like Miller obviously has in the past. HELL NO, on Miller.

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05-11-2013, 02:00 AM
  #540
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Originally Posted by thom View Post
Could you see Joe Sakic going to Pat Roy's office after season 3 and telling Patrick Roy your Fired?Hope security is near
I imagine it'd go down something like this

Joe - "Pat, I'm sorry, but its really not working, we're gonna move in another direction"

Pat - "Joe, I cannot ear what you are saying because i ave my 4 stanley cup rings plugging my hears, I'm gonna keep coaching."

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05-11-2013, 02:01 AM
  #541
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that's not a likely scenario for the NHL though. Fox started losing badly in Carolina because ownership stopped spending anything on the team and was building towards getting really cheap on salary and then building it back up.
and Fox didn't get fired, his contract expired and was not re-signed.
So... Dave Tippett

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05-11-2013, 02:43 AM
  #542
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So... Dave Tippett
wouldn't he essentially have to ask out though? his contract isn't up til 6/30. which is the same day as the draft, and didn't Sakic say they wanted a coach in place before the draft?

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05-11-2013, 05:37 AM
  #543
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I really like this article by Terry Frei, i agree with pretty much every thing he wrote there.

http://www.terryfrei.com/writersjournal.html

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05-11-2013, 09:11 AM
  #544
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If Sherman was actually the one calling the shots the past four years then I'd agree, but I don't think he was. There's been multiple mentions of a brain trust over the years, Sherman was likely the point of contact and key negotiator. I honestly don't think his day-to-day duties are any different today than they were yesterday.
So Basically , all these years where we said that Sherman was just a puppet , someone to put infront of the cameras just for the title and nothing else ... we were right . Someone else was pulling the strings behind the scene and that person was PL and EL to a certain point .

So we were right with our conspiracy theory, that's the only conclusion possible, with Sherman still with the Avs

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05-11-2013, 09:47 AM
  #545
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I really like this article by Terry Frei, i agree with pretty much every thing he wrote there.

http://www.terryfrei.com/writersjournal.html
Yeah, that is pretty good. Shame we can't get quality stuff like that from our regular beat writers.

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05-11-2013, 09:49 AM
  #546
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Eric Lacroix leaving (forced to leave) and Sherman being relegated to the business side only, does that mean that all along EL was having the last word in hockey personnel decisions and that Sherman was just a frontman?

If that is true, its a testament on how shadowy things where done under Pierre Lacroix. Why would PL do that? To have his son be the GM even though he could not have named him for fear of being accused of nespotism?

Just speculation on my part but yikes!

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05-11-2013, 02:38 PM
  #547
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Eric Lacroix leaving (forced to leave) and Sherman being relegated to the business side only, does that mean that all along EL was having the last word in hockey personnel decisions and that Sherman was just a frontman?

If that is true, its a testament on how shadowy things where done under Pierre Lacroix. Why would PL do that? To have his son be the GM even though he could not have named him for fear of being accused of nespotism?

Just speculation on my part but yikes!
Either that or this is just how PL saw the structure in the new cap era...the GM being the money man and the President and his circle being in charge of the hockey operations...and that structure still appears to be in place with Sakic, Billington, and Sherman.

First GM in the post cap era was François Giguere, brought in to relieve PL of the financial end of the game, which he admitted to screwing up going into the cap. FG was brought in to negotiate contracts and prevent PL from making bad fiscal deals, which he did anyways. The next GM, Sherman, was also brought in to be a money man. EL stepped in and took over PL's job in a lot of respects... but the basic fundamentals of the system remained.

I don't think there is any conspiracy here...just an organization that is trying to run things a bit out of the norm. You can complain that the strategy is/has/does not work....but I think it has been rather transparent that the Avs view the top end of the power structure a bit different.

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05-11-2013, 05:09 PM
  #548
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wouldn't he essentially have to ask out though? his contract isn't up til 6/30. which is the same day as the draft, and didn't Sakic say they wanted a coach in place before the draft?
Has he said that's a necessity, or is it just something they'd like? I'm hoping it's not a hard deadline and just something they're aiming for, but I guess it depends on how comprehensive their search is. If a guy like Eakins is in the mix they could potentially have to wait until mid-to-late-June anyway. If they're only considering currently available experienced guys, I think the list is Ruff, Boucher, and maybe Martin, I can't honestly think of anyone else. If Tippett's at all on their radar I'm sure they'd talk to Duchene and O'Reilly after the Worlds to see what they think of playing for him, then give it a couple weeks to see how things go in Phoenix. They can't talk to him until his contract is up, but if it looks like there is no resolve in sight it might be worth waiting for.

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05-11-2013, 06:11 PM
  #549
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I'm really happy about this. One of the big concerns that I had was that if JK cleaned house, how would he know who to hire? Guys like Doug Maclean and Mike Milbury would be calling him to take advantage of the situation, just like they did with other owners in a similar position. Getting rid of the Lacroixs could have gone really ugly. By reorganizing the Avs front office in the way he did, it gives him the time and the exposure to learn more about hockey and make contacts. When this regime fails (hopefully later rather than sooner), he'll be in a much better position to handle the replacement hires.

By installing himself as president, there's now an accountability factor that he didn't have to face as an owner. He's now directly involved in the decisions, and has a personal stake in them. This was a really savvy move on his part, and a nice goodwill gesture to the fans.

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05-12-2013, 12:03 AM
  #550
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People need to stop thinking that Sherman was relegated. He is doing exactly what he was doing before. Sherman was never the one making hockey decisions.

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