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Should The Habs Replace MT With Patrick Roy ?

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Old
05-11-2013, 06:59 PM
  #126
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by LastRide View Post
Looks like the Av's are ready to steal him away. They Av's love digging through our organization. Losing MT isn't that big a deal as far as I am concerned. No big loss. Plus I didn't like some of the payers he was sending out on the PP among other things. I also read MT's games speech's are uninspiring. I would love to see Roy behind the bench.
You can't possibly be serious?

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Old
05-11-2013, 07:17 PM
  #127
Fish on The Sand
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Originally Posted by hockeyrules123 View Post
Replacing Therrien? What stuff are these people smoking?

Do u think PK should be traded for Eric Brewer also?
Therrien is a poor coach, and always has been. I will admit he did better than I expected him to, but he was still a poor coach. I recognize that Therrien is not going to be fired after an unexpected division title, but by the same token he never should have been fired in the first place.

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05-11-2013, 07:36 PM
  #128
Travis Moen
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Let me get this straight. If someone speaks French they're automically a terrible choice. This is what you're basically implying here. I do not understand why people are so bothered by it. There are 29 other teams you can cheer for which don't have this HUUUUGE french problem. What drew you to the habs in the first place? Why not embrace our uniqueness ?
I never said. I simply believe that if the language was out of the equation, it is likely that someone else would have coached our team.

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Old
05-11-2013, 07:48 PM
  #129
old scotia
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Replace MT after next season with Dale Hunter.

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Old
05-11-2013, 07:54 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by old scotia View Post
Replace MT after next season with Dale Hunter.
Dale Hunter is excluded as a potential coach on account of his place of birth and native language.

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Old
05-11-2013, 08:19 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Here's the thing though: we didn't score in the 3rd once. And I'd go on to argue that just by the way the team was playing down the stretch, it was pretty clear that other teams figured out Therrien's "system". Whereas Jacques Martin was all system, Therrien is nigh-no system. The team was a Faberge Egg defensively and it was because of the blue-line play.
Same thing would happen under Martin. I mean seriously man, how many times have we seen the team get the lead and then blow it in the 3rd?

As for teams figuring us out down the stretch... a lot of that has to do with our blueline. Markov was worn down and old. Gorges didn't live up to the hype and we had a young group back there. Price also wasn't himself.

Like I said, I didn't agree with everything MT did, but I certainly don't think he did a bad job.
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You see it many times, and it was best exposed by Karlsson's rushes through the neutral zone: LD takes the RW, RD takes the C/LW and the C is supposed to track back and take the third winger (clearly it gets more complicated when there's dump-and-chase involved: from what I remember we USED to have 1mobile-1stationary in our D and then evolved to a chase-the-living-crap-out-of-the-puck as the season wore on, lack of discipline?). It was plain as day they were marking their wingers and not really playing their zone and that's why the 3rd man in was left unmarked so many god damn times.

This is remedial coaching 099 if you ask me.
Well, a guy like Karlsson is going to burn a lot of teams. Fact is that we have a D that is mostly either inexperienced or old. Subban and Gorges are the only guys in their prime now.
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You have a point re: lineup of guys. But Carbo achieved just as much with a wildly inferior lineup. Jacques achieved slightly more with an equal or inferior lineup. We have a damn good team, a damn fast team and a hungry team that doesn't quit (save one or two smurfs...) I don't think many can fault the players for their team getting exposed. Yes if Diaz actually played the body once and if Bouillon cleared the *** crease we'd have a much much more stability but we didn't.
I thought Martin was awful and he didn't accomplish squat. Halak caught fire (after the worst Canadiens season I'd seen... ever that somehow got in with 88 points) and put us on his back. We should've been gone in round one in five games. Martin blew chunks.

As for Carbo, all I can say is that I'm glad he was gone after his mini stint here. He ruined younger players like Perezhogin and he should stick to broadcasting because he sucked ass too. And he had the luxury of a much more experienced blueline as well.

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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
No one can say that Gorges and Subban and Markov are bad defensively, it's not like they just plain forgot how to play over 10 months - the problem lies with how exposed they're getting. Same with Price and all the "softies" E=CH says he lets in. Anyone who's played team sports can see that the players are trying but just can't execute properly.
Markov was never great defensively. I know that nobody wants to hear this but it's true. And now... yeah, he's bad defensively. Gorges? I have no idea what the **** happened to him but he's not the same guy.


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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
As for the offense, well, the one time they got a body in the vicinity of that overrated Anderson we scored a goal. Our PP stinks and our offense got stifled by the big D-men on the Sens, not to mention how our offense is arranged so that the D has got to pinch and keep the puck in and keep the play alive. It's like risk and on risk on risk - sure it pays off but the Sens put so much pressure on our D at both blue lines, we got shredded over and over... if it weren't that the Sens were less-talented and less-experienced we'd get blown out even faster.

We had the series in our hands if the D played it safer and we crashed the net but...

Anyway I don't like long posts after long posts so sorry everyone, I tried to keep it brief.
I completely agree with you on crashing the net. But who was going to do it? DD? Busted up Max? Pleks is suddenly going to turn into Holmstrom?

We need to change the culture of this team. We're going in the right direction but we're still too small and there's still too many guys not going to the net. We also don't have guys who can clear the crease. Tinordi is coming up so that will help. Beaulieu is supposedly good that way. MT isn't going to turn Markov into Rod Langway dude.

We built a team that's supposed to be skilled but it's small and soft. I don't blame MB for this but its still a weakness. I thought we played well and had we gone to the net we could've won. Personally I think that's on the players and not the coach. No way MT wasn't begging those guys to go to the net.
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
I'm not expecting a cup, I never was any time soon. However I'm not sure what else to judge a coach on besides he success in the post season, when it really comes down to it? You think Vigneaut is going to survive in Vancouver? I doubt it, because like it or not he hasn't delivered results as of late, and he's only a couple seasons removed from the finals.
I think one postseason is a pretty poor measure of judgement actually. Esp one where we had as many injuries as we did and came so close to winning.
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
So let me ask you this, why is it MT has such an awful playoff record? He makes key mistakes, at key times, and becomes unravelled in the post season. He starts making exsuses, starts blaming the other team, coaches etc... before looking in the mirror.

MT has only led a team past the first round once, I'm not breaking any news here. The Penguins would rather take a chance on a young, inexperienced coach in Bylsma than figure it out with MT. Red flag? I think so.
Again, this is a poor argument. He coached bad Habs teams and then he coached a young Pittsburgh team all the way to the cup final.

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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
I disagree, this just isn't true. Yzerman's teams were always missing a couple key components before the dominant years they had. Their goaltending was always iffy, and their defense was putrid plus they were small and injury prone. Sound familiar? Funny how things changed when they brought in Kocer and the boys to keep the other teams honest....
Okay, so then why do you ask why MT's playoff record is so bad? Why is okay to do it for him and not Yzerman?

People keep asking why Price hasn't won. They don't look at the teams that he's been on or the teams we've faced. They just look at the record with no context. That's what you're doing here. And it's a really bad argument to make.

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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
I really don't care if he won a cup, I'm telling you the truth. I care about details and leadership behind the bench, something I feel MT lost somewhere with 3 weeks left in the season. This team that played the Sens, is the same one that was in a downward spiral the last month. I firmly believe they would have been fighting for 8th had this been an 82 game schedule, they were playing that badly.

Its not all the coaches fault, I'm not suggesting it is. However do you honestly believe we would have walked into the playoffs in a 82 game schedule? If you do, congrats you have a lot of faith in MT, I won't knock you for it any more. I really don't know if we would have made it.
I don't know if we would've won a divisional title but there's little chance of us having missed the playoffs. Then again, we're hearing that Price hurt himself down the stretch so maybe it would've happened. I don't know... it's speculative.

What I do know is that we had a tremendous season. I know that we exceeded all of my expectations and that deserves praise not scorn.

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Old
05-11-2013, 08:24 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by old scotia View Post
Replace MT after next season with Dale Hunter.
Dale Hunter was actually not good. He didn't understand that you need to keep your superstars happy. Oates understood this and was rewarded for it.

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Old
05-11-2013, 08:25 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Same thing would happen under Martin. I mean seriously man, how many times have we seen the team get the lead and then blow it in the 3rd?

As for teams figuring us out down the stretch... a lot of that has to do with our blueline. Markov was worn down and old. Gorges didn't live up to the hype and we had a young group back there. Price also wasn't himself.

Like I said, I didn't agree with everything MT did, but I certainly don't think he did a bad job.

Well, a guy like Karlsson is going to burn a lot of teams. Fact is that we have a D that is mostly either inexperienced or old. Subban and Gorges are the only guys in their prime now.

I thought Martin was awful and he didn't accomplish squat. Halak caught fire (after the worst Canadiens season I'd seen... ever that somehow got in with 88 points) and put us on his back. We should've been gone in round one in five games. Martin blew chunks.

As for Carbo, all I can say is that I'm glad he was gone after his mini stint here. He ruined younger players like Perezhogin and he should stick to broadcasting because he sucked ass too. And he had the luxury of a much more experienced blueline as well.


Markov was never great defensively. I know that nobody wants to hear this but it's true. And now... yeah, he's bad defensively. Gorges? I have no idea what the **** happened to him but he's not the same guy.



I completely agree with you on crashing the net. But who was going to do it? DD? Busted up Max? Pleks is suddenly going to turn into Holmstrom?

We need to change the culture of this team. We're going in the right direction but we're still too small and there's still too many guys not going to the net. We also don't have guys who can clear the crease. Tinordi is coming up so that will help. Beaulieu is supposedly good that way. MT isn't going to turn Markov into Rod Langway dude.

We built a team that's supposed to be skilled but it's small and soft. I don't blame MB for this but its still a weakness. I thought we played well and had we gone to the net we could've won. Personally I think that's on the players and not the coach. No way MT wasn't begging those guys to go to the net.

I think one postseason is a pretty poor measure of judgement actually. Esp one where we had as many injuries as we did and came so close to winning.

Again, this is a poor argument. He coached bad Habs teams and then he coached a young Pittsburgh team all the way to the cup final.


Okay, so then why do you ask why MT's playoff record is so bad? Why is okay to do it for him and not Yzerman?

People keep asking why Price hasn't won. They don't look at the teams that he's been on or the teams we've faced. They just look at the record with no context. That's what you're doing here. And it's a really bad argument to make.


I don't know if we would've won a divisional title but there's little chance of us having missed the playoffs. Then again, we're hearing that Price hurt himself down the stretch so maybe it would've happened. I don't know... it's speculative.

What I do know is that we had a tremendous season. I know that we exceeded all of my expectations and that deserves praise not scorn.
All I really know is, we are probably never going to agree on the state of the habs, what is wrong with them, or how to fix it.

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Old
05-11-2013, 08:58 PM
  #134
BRAD HABSFAN
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All I really know is, we are probably never going to agree on the state of the habs, what is wrong with them, or how to fix it.
yea it does seem like we all love to bang our heads against brick walls.. but my only thought on this and i said it earlier.. he doesnt speak french that i know of but i would like to see someone who bleeds habs... captain kirk

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Old
05-11-2013, 10:50 PM
  #135
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No, Therrien was a great coach this year. No excuses may be the motto he lived by and kudos to him, but injuries really hurt us and people keep forgetting that we're in transition and we will be next year as well, and the year after perhaps.

Playoffs were NOT his fault. Losing half your team and blown calls in a critical game, I ain't even mad. Just looking forward to proving everyone wrong about an 82 game season.

We have cap space coming up, when MT gets the team he wants, he's gonna be great.

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05-11-2013, 11:08 PM
  #136
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MT is a great coach, better than Carlyle.

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05-11-2013, 11:16 PM
  #137
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I had to go to Sudbury and help a buddy drive back an SUV he bought out there.

I have some reservations about Therrien. I don't like what I seen from him at times. Does he deserve to be fired ?, probably not. Coaches have been fired after finishing first.

We started playing horribly late in the season that continued into the 1st round playoffs. Therrien needed to rally the troops down the stretch and just couldn't get it done. Sure we had injuries, at least try to make the best of it. We got completely dominated and man handled and were never in the series. We looked like a last place team.

I am not going to lay all the blame on Therrien, but he deserves some of it. Players like Gorges, Price, Markov, Diaz, Patch's, DD, Moen, Bouillon, Ryder forgot to show up. If Price is injured enough to effect his play in a big way, than why play him. Personal changes need to be made.

I would rather finish 8th, win a round or two and get a better draft pick than finish 2nd and an early exit.

The organization only likes hiring old geezers as head coaches. Carbo isn't even worth mentioning. Carbo was hired because him and Gainey were buddies.


Last edited by LastRide: 05-11-2013 at 11:21 PM.
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Old
05-12-2013, 01:26 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by JesusBouillon View Post
As I remember Roy said this was a bunch of BS in his interview following Therrien's hiring. Not that I want to replace Therrien but let's not base that decision on BS rumors from our BS journalists.
Then I retract the statement.

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05-12-2013, 01:28 AM
  #139
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I never equated fights with toughness, but if Roy has his teams hit intelligently, he can be given a chance to coach the Dogs.
Nowadays, to be a tough team you have to hit and fight, it's part of the whole intimidation angle. We can say "Gorges is tough" but at the end of the day, I would take Methot over him. It hurts far more going in a corner with Methot than Gorges. I'll take White over Darche cause of that too.

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05-12-2013, 01:30 AM
  #140
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Replacing Therrien? What stuff are these people smoking?

Do u think PK should be traded for Eric Brewer also?
Some people will never like Therrien no matter what. Even if we win a cup and he buys them hookers.

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05-12-2013, 01:55 AM
  #141
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Some people will never like Therrien no matter what. Even if we win a cup and he buys them hookers.
To be honest, it's because Therrien looks like one of those old-school illiterate coaches who doesn't know much in the way of tactics or advanced stats - he's one of those player's coaches through and through.

I was bemused at his appointment and in disbelief as the season wore on and we still hadn't seen any adversity (were we that good?!?!) then the bad streak started and we didn't get out of it until our unceremonious ejection from the playoffs. Then came the excuses - injuries! refs! price! the PQ! - but in reality it was Therrien who couldn't right the ship, who couldn't adjust and whose team made the same critical mistakes night in, night out. The Habs were not prepared for any fight-back and did not adjust once.

Players like Ryder, Markov, Gorges, Diaz, Subban and yes, David Desharnais, woefully underperformed and looked like they a few gears from top speed - that's on the coach.

The Defensive breakdown and exposure of the goalie - that's on the coach.

The brutal special teams, the inept Diamond formation and the over-reliance on PK Subban - that's on the coach.

The thuggish bench brawls (that failed, and embarrassed us) - that's on the coach.

I'm not saying he's due to get fired but he's on a short leash for sure. If he bottles it next season and doesn't adjust his damn gameplan, he's gone by December.

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05-12-2013, 03:14 AM
  #142
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Yup, a Q coach with no pro experience! LETS DO THIS!
what could possibly go wrong

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05-12-2013, 03:51 AM
  #143
WhiskeySeven
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what could possibly go wrong
But it's a mystery box, it could be anything! It could even be a competent coach!

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05-12-2013, 04:14 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
But it's a mystery box, it could be anything! It could even be a competent coach!
or it could be absolutely nothing! stuuuupiiiiiiiiiiiid!!!

sorry, UHF quotes

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05-12-2013, 04:34 AM
  #145
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or it could be absolutely nothing! stuuuupiiiiiiiiiiiid!!!

sorry, UHF quotes
Badger? We don't need no stinkin' badgers.

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05-12-2013, 10:04 AM
  #146
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Sorry, I'm a little late to this party. So we should replace a Jack Adams nominated coach (probably) that took us to second place and plays a fun and productive up tempo style with a guy who has exactly zero NHL coaching experience because he used to play for us 20 years ago. Is that correct? I'm not even a MT fan and I think that's a HORRIBLY ridiculous idea on so many levels I could write a thesis on it.

Some Montreal fans are just plain ridiculous.

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05-12-2013, 10:25 AM
  #147
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The injuries were bad, maybe too much for any team to overcome - but we didn't lose because of our forwards getting injured. We lost because of the D - who seem to have all been healthy.
Our forwards getting injured was key.

Before the series began, almost everyone agreed to say that their goaltending was better, their D was better, but they had no offense. That our strength was the PP and our depth up front. When you lose your only advantage from the get go by losing Gionta, Eller, Pacioretty,etc. Then it becomes a heck of a lot harder. It wasn't the only reason. We still could have won and came close to in quite a few games. But it was certainly a major factor.

The reason I mentioned it is because you said the sens had an injured star and rookies in their line up as if it was a great shame to lose to them. Our situation was way worse. We had almost as many rookies and our injuries affected us more.

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You've clearly never played sports in your life.
You are so obnoxious and ridiculous with this. For one it's completely false, I love sports, played collegial soccer and various forms of recreational hockey, badminton, etc. Not gonna sit here and write down my "sports resume" for you but I have played sports, not at the pro level but somehow I don't think it's a pre-requisite for a hockey message board. And no matter how highly you think of yourself, unless proven otherwise, you are just another schmuck like the rest of us.

But even if I had played sports it has no bearing on my opinion at all. It has no meaning whatsoever. You are being completely ridiculous with this. It tells me you do not respect my opinion for what it's worth and you never will, so why should I even bother replying to your post.. and why do you even reply to mine?

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Aside from the obviously injured Prust, the players gave and give 100% for every game. Stop using ESPN terms like "turning it on" and insanely simplistic notions like that - that's not how real life works. That's actually how people can tell if you're a radio listener, TSN/AC junkie or someone who actually watches the games. Are you seriously suggesting that the players just stopped playing as hard for TWELVE STRAIGHT GAMES? These guys are the fiercest competitors in their sports - that's how they got to the NHL. Give them more credit than your inexperienced, completely ignorant-of-the-situation self has to offer.
For one, I have no clue where that figure of twelve straight games come from. There was 5 games in between the 41st and 46th game where we went 1-5 where there was an obvious drop in play and efforts on the ice combined with an injured Price (by his own admission) who couldn't stop a beach ball.

Secondly, it's hard to reply to you seriously and not just devolve into a match of insults when you are so condescending and obnoxious with the radio listener crap and you haven't played sports card.

Finally, players don't go out of their way to not give effort and not work and lose but if you think all players go into every game and are prepared the exact same way, have the exact same focus, and give the exact same effort you are really naive to a degree that defies imagination. For example, let's take AK and Radulov who went out during the playoffs until 3 am the day before a game ? I'll stop there because there are varying degrees of this, and different situations. But you are being extremely naive and you're the one with an ultra simplistic view of the situation, they aren't robots they're human beings with lives outside of the sport. They don't go into every game and give the exact same effort every time. You are just wrong.

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Everyone can give up and it's okay but Price can't. Your obsession is showing. I thought you just said the guys were saving it for the playoffs? How come Price can't save it for the playoffs?
Price was injured in the final stretch he said so himself. So that would explain a lot. I didn't know that. He should have let Budaj take his spot and rested his injuries for the playoffs but oh well.


Quote:
How dare Price get injured! I mean, we lost because Eller and Gionta and Patches were injured but F Price, that injured loser, he's the reason we lost!
Not sure what you're rambling about here. Price playing injured didn't help us no.


Quote:
Change your glasses. I saw a forecheck that led to nothing as the Sens collapsed smartly in their zone, shots that led to nothing as they were at impossible angles and pinches that led to odd-man-rushes against us constantly. Anderson is no Timmy Thomas, he had maybe 3 important saves a game, tops. Our forwards were beyond ineffective.
You change your glasses. The habs set up a record 27 shots on goal in the 2nd period of game 1. You can say none of them were scoring chances but you're wrong. And not only that but you claim I have an agenda against Price when it couldn't be more obvious that you have one against Therrien.

And really, 3 important save a game tops... You think the sens had a million scoring chances against us ? Anyone has access to a site with scoring chances ? I'd like to see what they were in game 1,2,4. Game 3 and 5 were debacles after the first 2 periods.

You shoot on net, things happen. Sens did it any time they could. And things happened. Probably because Price was injured and not in the zone. But whatever.

If we listen to you, we took a gazillion shots and all of them were meaningless. We made Anderson look good. Other teams would have exposed him like they did in the regular season.. OHHH WAIT.. he had the same save % against other teams in the regular season.. damn. I guess Anderson might actually be good.


Quote:
You're looking at the surface again. There's tactics involved that you're not grasping, it's not SHOOT! SHOOT! SHOOT!!!! like most fans think. We had no one in front of the net, not once until Subban's goal in the last game - and I didn't really observe the PP as much because it's been the same from the mid-way point of the season on but it seemed like they were relying on risky, impossible passes even more than usual.
Oh those advanced tactics such as putting a man in front of the net ? I'm out of my depth here. You are right.

You took great care to avoid answering my question so I'll repeat it:

How do you make adjustments to the PP when you play 3 games in 4 nights ? When do you suggest the habs should have taken the time to practice the PP ?


Quote:
I wasn't complaining about the forecheck, it was fine. The D was the problem. He got outcoached. I'm not saying he should be fired but if he were I wouldn't be shocked. He got outcoached and exposed and his track record with adjustments is ZERO. Ask Pens fans.
I think you are completely wrong. I think you went into the playoffs with a mindset that Therrien was an idiot and it's like you said on that post in the last page, you have been looking for a reason why we are doing so good because in your mind we can't with Therrien. You are looking for anything to justify that view point. It's a bit ridiculous because it's really not supported by anything.


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Here's the thing though: we didn't score in the 3rd once. And I'd go on to argue that just by the way the team was playing down the stretch, it was pretty clear that other teams figured out Therrien's "system". Whereas Jacques Martin was all system, Therrien is nigh-no system. The team was a Faberge Egg defensively and it was because of the blue-line play.
Apparently Carlisle a great coach didn't figure out Therrien's system at all because we stomped the leafs in our final game of the season. I think you have omitted the last 2 regular season games from your memory because it kind of pokes holes in your unfounded theories.

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05-12-2013, 10:47 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I was bemused at his appointment and in disbelief as the season wore on and we still hadn't seen any adversity (were we that good?!?!) then the bad streak started and we didn't get out of it until our unceremonious ejection from the playoffs. Then came the excuses - injuries! refs! price! the PQ! - but in reality it was Therrien who couldn't right the ship, who couldn't adjust and whose team made the same critical mistakes night in, night out. The Habs were not prepared for any fight-back and did not adjust once.
I was going to mention this, and how irritating it was listening to him on the 24CH show. He repeats it often , how 'shocked' he is that the team is doing so well. He is amazed that they are at the top of the division and playing so well. Great leader behind the bench, a guy who can't figure out why they are so good this season.

Then the blame game starts, and it all comes crumbling apart.

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05-12-2013, 11:15 AM
  #149
Et le But
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Originally Posted by Mathradio View Post
I never equated fights with toughness, but if Roy has his teams hit intelligently, he can be given a chance to coach the Dogs.
I'd love to see Roy actually prove himself the right way, but I don't see him willing to leave such a good position in Quebec for the AHL.

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05-12-2013, 11:40 AM
  #150
Des Louise
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I'd love to see Roy actually prove himself the right way, but I don't see him willing to leave such a good position in Quebec for the AHL.
There's no point in mentioning that you'd like to see him toil away in the minor league below the NHL. I guarantee that it won't happen. It's neither necessary nor realistic.

Roy is not your average guy. He's the only player in the history of the NHL to win 3 conn smythes. He's a legend of hockey. He has a great situation where he can coach, be an owner and make quite a bit of money in Quebec where he comes from (the province, I don't know if he comes from the city).

Would you have expected Dale Hunter to go coach in the AHL before he coached the caps ? Adam Oates ? Brent Sutter ?

I don't get why it's so important that he coaches in the AHL, especially considering how there is no chance it happens.

That said, I'd rather have Boucher than Roy for our next coach.. whenever we replace Therrien in the future.

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