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All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part IV

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Old
05-11-2013, 07:29 AM
  #576
Bleed Ranger Blue
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I dont know of a single NHL coach that would be able to win a playoff series if his 3 best forwards sucked for, literally, the entire series.

Nash, Richards, and Callahan have been very bad. Its sad to watch

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05-11-2013, 07:49 AM
  #577
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I have a hard time seeing how we can compete with this approach under the cap. We have built for ten years, and still it seems like that it will take (i) inhuman effort, that if nothing else will hurt half the roster, and (ii) two three really talented players more -- for us to even play as well as the top 8 teams. How on earth do you build that team???

Except 4the lineers, nobody play well for Torts.
Talk about a broken strategy. It's beyond ridiculous when you put it that way.
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
I hate how so many of you are just willing to give the players a pass. Nash has been invisible, Richy has been our third best center (at best), DZ is an offensive dman who doesn't provide offense, but they're all okay it's the coaching staff's fault.

Who is out there on the ice, the coaches or the players? Sad to see so many of you refusing to place blame where it actually belongs.
Maybe if they played something else but that ineffective, dumb strategy on away ice they would play better. They play like the bullied child who just waits to get beaten up. It's not even beneficiary to Lundqvist, the shots that goes through that pile of bodies are lethal scoring chances. I'm pretty sure he would rather see the shot instead of at best hearing it every time.

Nash clearly has a leg injury and can barely skate. What Richards problem is, who knows. Del Zotto has been labeled as an offensive D-man, but he has never been one.


Last edited by Chimp: 05-11-2013 at 07:56 AM.
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05-11-2013, 07:51 AM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I dont know of a single NHL coach that would be able to win a playoff series if his 3 best forwards sucked for, literally, the entire series.

Nash, Richards, and Callahan have been very bad. Its sad to watch
callahan is the 3rd best forward? remind me to tell stepan that

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05-11-2013, 08:04 AM
  #579
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
I hate how so many of you are just willing to give the players a pass. Nash has been invisible, Richy has been our third best center (at best), DZ is an offensive dman who doesn't provide offense, but they're all okay it's the coaching staff's fault.

Who is out there on the ice, the coaches or the players? Sad to see so many of you refusing to place blame where it actually belongs.
I'm not giving the players a pass. I have stated my personal issues with the coaches since 2011, wanting them to alter a few things or bring in a tactical guy who can handle some of the gaps we are weak at, or otherwise get new coaches. But a lot of this is on the players. A lot of it.

I look at some of these guys, how below their norm they've been, in results and in effort, and can't help but feel like some of them quit on the coaches a bit. It really looks that way at times. At the very least, the full out effort is not consistently there from many of them.

Sorry, but if you have an issue, ask for a trade and show up to work every day until you get moved. There are people in the world busting their ***** for under $50k and it's hard to watch spoiled millionaires when they're half-showing up.

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05-11-2013, 08:09 AM
  #580
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Callahan played the worst... he honestly is becoming anouying to watch.. the guy isnt playing smart and thinks he can do everything on his own.. he's hanging onto the puck way to much and when he should pass he shoots (or trys) and when he should shoot he trys to do a stupid pass and turns it over)..he's not utilizing our most effective players on his line, hags and step enough..

Nash obv has to step it up.. but the way we're shutting down ovi is the same thing theyre doing to nash.. he has no space out there at all..he has two men on him or cheating his way the entire time..

Richards has to be better of course but he hasnt looked terrible out there.. its kinda is what it is with him....

What Im mad at is game 4 we completely dominated them.. showed so much for gritt and passion for playing.. last night we played well but we didn't show that urgency, gritt or passion to put us over the top.. thats what im pissed about.. and its not just the rangers.. its like teams turn it on and off when they want to..it makes me so pissed bc when i played, especially when games mattered in playoffs and championships.. you go balls to the wall and hit everything that moves.. battle that much harder for pucks.. and ultimately make things happen, by willing yourself... thats disgusting loss bc i know we have more in the tank then that effort!!

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05-11-2013, 08:15 AM
  #581
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Nash with his size and strength looks like primadonna out there. I almost never see him hit his opponent. He is always trying to make a nice move against two or three players which often results in loosing the puck.

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05-11-2013, 08:23 AM
  #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
I hate how so many of you are just willing to give the players a pass. Nash has been invisible, Richy has been our third best center (at best), DZ is an offensive dman who doesn't provide offense, but they're all okay it's the coaching staff's fault.

Who is out there on the ice, the coaches or the players? Sad to see so many of you refusing to place blame where it actually belongs.
I haven't seen anyone give the players a free pass. Let's face it, the responsibility falls equally on both the coaching staff and the players.

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05-11-2013, 09:39 AM
  #583
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
I hate how so many of you are just willing to give the players a pass. Nash has been invisible, Richy has been our third best center (at best), DZ is an offensive dman who doesn't provide offense, but they're all okay it's the coaching staff's fault.

Who is out there on the ice, the coaches or the players? Sad to see so many of you refusing to place blame where it actually belongs.
Lol you must not be reading almost every player thread...

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05-11-2013, 09:51 AM
  #584
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You can blame the players all you want. Last year was the same thing. And the players played great. This system is too exhausting and offensively shackled, not to mention the coach is a load for the players to deal with. He is unfortunately not going to get fired over a strike shortened season. But I really want to see him go. I can't wait to drive him to the airport.

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05-11-2013, 09:53 AM
  #585
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As long as the players are failing to get into th offense zone effectively, failing to use transition game and just desperately rely on the boards, it's the coach who employs these systems.

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05-11-2013, 09:56 AM
  #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
I hate how so many of you are just willing to give the players a pass. Nash has been invisible, Richy has been our third best center (at best), DZ is an offensive dman who doesn't provide offense, but they're all okay it's the coaching staff's fault.

Who is out there on the ice, the coaches or the players? Sad to see so many of you refusing to place blame where it actually belongs.
This right here tells me all I need to know about you...

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05-11-2013, 09:58 AM
  #587
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This right here tells me all I need to know about you...
Work harder, not smarter! That's how I feel about the coaching strategy here. And I agree with your post

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05-11-2013, 10:50 AM
  #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
I hate how so many of you are just willing to give the players a pass. Nash has been invisible, Richy has been our third best center (at best), DZ is an offensive dman who doesn't provide offense, but they're all okay it's the coaching staff's fault.

Who is out there on the ice, the coaches or the players? Sad to see so many of you refusing to place blame where it actually belongs.
Almost everyone on the roster and coaching staff right now are guilty of one thing or another.

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05-11-2013, 10:53 AM
  #589
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I honestly feel that Tortorella is trying to "get Richie going" by putting him on the powerplay. Not to mention, why is Del Zaster still with him?

Brassard, Moore, Zucc. All of them looked great when the powerplay was in their hands and the entire team wasn't deferring to Beaver. Now what does he do? Puts Beaver, Del Zaster, and Nash on the powerplay, when all of them have done squat. W T F.

How can Moore go from "running our powerplay" to 2nd unit? How can Brass make that Godly pass to Girardi to have Beaver take his place in the next game? Baffling coaching decisions. 0-11 on the powerplay in Washington. 2-21 in the series against the 27th ranked PK. Embarrassing. It's because of decisions like that. Powerplay in Washington cost us Game 2, badly. Cost us yesterday as well.

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05-11-2013, 11:06 AM
  #590
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Interesting debate, I will say this though the last several years, what we've seen in terms of effort had a lot to with the personnel. The short time Tortorella coached Gomez & Zherdev, he was visibly disgusted by them. No joke some of you have avatars from those days.

The full seasons he has had, each year the team got better in terms of effort to the point where it isn't even questioned. Wolski was the last of those players on the roster, and he was a healthy scratch, and Avery was on his last legs. Last years team had all but two guys that played the system and were a right fit.

If folks listened to the Tortorella interviews on Michael Kay, the organization fessed up to saying they took a step back in terms of what they had built by not filling back what they lost (Feds, Mitchell, specifically mentioned Prust). What they lost were their penalty killers. The Rangers had a middling PK w. the best goalie in the world.

So Tortorella or no Tortorella, the Rangers lost their identity when they lost willing shot blockers up and down the line up, not just in PK situations, look at how many pucks get through.

How many shots got to the net this year that would never had made it last? Is it the system? Players? Management?

I'd say it's a little bit of everything.

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05-11-2013, 11:13 AM
  #591
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Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
I can't help but wonder how we would be doing with tarasenko right now and/or Sauer
I imagine Tarasenko would be playing a role similar to what Zucc is playing right now, if he'd even be playing at all. After a red-hot start, Tarasenko looked to be getting overwhelmed by the physical play and wasn't particularly good in the defensive zone. Combine that with not giving 100% every shift and you've got a recipe for Torts' doghouse. Obviously it's complete speculation but Torts has never shown an affinity for offensive wunderkinds that are defensive liabilities.

Sure, it'd be great to have a healthy Sauer too but when you're near the bottom in goals for, another shut-down d isn't what you need.

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05-11-2013, 11:59 AM
  #592
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
I honestly feel that Tortorella is trying to "get Richie going" by putting him on the powerplay. Not to mention, why is Del Zaster still with him?

Brassard, Moore, Zucc. All of them looked great when the powerplay was in their hands and the entire team wasn't deferring to Beaver. Now what does he do? Puts Beaver, Del Zaster, and Nash on the powerplay, when all of them have done squat. W T F.

How can Moore go from "running our powerplay" to 2nd unit? How can Brass make that Godly pass to Girardi to have Beaver take his place in the next game? Baffling coaching decisions. 0-11 on the powerplay in Washington. 2-21 in the series against the 27th ranked PK. Embarrassing. It's because of decisions like that. Powerplay in Washington cost us Game 2, badly. Cost us yesterday as well.
Agree with this entire post. We have a bad powerplay all year and we finally get one that is getting good looks so he sabotages is in order to try to get a player going that we have been succeeding without. Such stupid logic. We need to win games at this point. Not take chances and hope we can get someone going.

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05-11-2013, 05:32 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I dont know of a single NHL coach that would be able to win a playoff series if his 3 best forwards sucked for, literally, the entire series.

Nash, Richards, and Callahan have been very bad. Its sad to watch
So true. But like I said in another thread he can't preside over an offense and PP this incompetent though. it's too much failure and not enough improvement.

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05-11-2013, 06:06 PM
  #594
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Some good Callahan discussion but this is the Torts/Sather Thread.

Resume that debate in the Cally Thread. Moved a bunch of posts there.

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05-11-2013, 06:58 PM
  #595
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Correct. I don't think either are necessarily bad PPQB's. The problem is that neither has a right handed triggerman as their off point option. The Rangers need a hard shooting defensemen(or forward at this point) who can keep PK units honest.

The successful PP's have both a PPQB and triggerman at the the points or a Defensemen who is both(very rare).

But, having both Del Z and Richards together is a total redundancy. That don't compliment one another and their offensive tendencies are too similar. Its also fairly obvious that neither one has a lot of confidence in their point shooting(which isn't hard to understand).
The quickest and easiest way to improve the PP is to have the points shoot wrist shots. They are easier to control and put on net. With that you get deflections and rebounds. Stop shooting slap shots. All they do is go high and wide.

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05-11-2013, 07:04 PM
  #596
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I'm so done with him.
How do people feel about maybe giving Doug weight a chance?

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05-11-2013, 07:18 PM
  #597
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
I hate how so many of you are just willing to give the players a pass. Nash has been invisible, Richy has been our third best center (at best), DZ is an offensive dman who doesn't provide offense, but they're all okay it's the coaching staff's fault.

Who is out there on the ice, the coaches or the players? Sad to see so many of you refusing to place blame where it actually belongs.
Not giving the players a pass, but it's the coaches system that puts them in the position to fail. How often do they break in 3 on 2 only to dump the puck in the corner? How many times are all three forwards caught behind the goal line when the other team starts their breakout? That strategy is all on the coach.

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05-11-2013, 07:25 PM
  #598
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How do people feel about maybe giving Doug weight a chance?
Anyone is better than torts IMO. A good coach is one that adapts a system to the players he has. Maybe when he first took over, our talent level was low so we had to play this turtle system. But now we have many more skilled and young players that his system has to loosen up. Plus, this benching for very little mistake is not conducive for developing young players and building confidence.

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05-11-2013, 07:29 PM
  #599
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Anyone is better than torts IMO. A good coach is one that adapts a system to the players he has. Maybe when he first took over, our talent level was low so we had to play this turtle system. But now we have many more skilled and young players that his system has to loosen up. Plus, this benching for very little mistake is not conducive for developing young players and building confidence.
Quick, call Trottier

Torts isn't the greatest coach going around, but we could also do a lot worse

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05-11-2013, 07:32 PM
  #600
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How do people feel about maybe giving Doug weight a chance?
The Islanders are probably going to name him their head coach soon. At least I think they would and should. He plays a big part in their success, IMO.

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