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2013 QMJHL draft as of Feb 2013

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05-11-2013, 11:48 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by scoutman1 View Post
well it is not about having the stones to do it, it is about getting a product the following year on the ice and if you waste a pick your not doing that, your not going to bomb all year and blow your top 5 pick on a guy who is not going to come just to prove he should not be doing this, so the kid goes NCAA (no skin off his back, he is still getting better and getting scouted) and your left with a bust of a pick when the team picking behind you got a guy who is scoring 40 points as a rookie and someone who should develop into a potential franchise player, I think the GM would be fired pretty quick and if he wasn't the fans would chase him out of the building...as much as you want to see it happen you can not play with your future just to prove a point because now your playing with fire.

As for a 15 year old having an agent well they all do now, last thing teams want to deal with is a parent, we try to deal with the kid himself but dealing with a parent is not always great....the agents usually help the kid get noticed by QMJHL teams by plugging their names to scouts and they help stir the kid in the right direction knowing the avenues most parents do not know.....most agents at that age are really good with younger guys...plus an agent will help get the kid in hockey schools in the summer and camps with some of their idols who play in the NHL, agents are not always a bad thing and at 15 years old agents usually are not bad...there is always going to be money exchanged for top players, it happens in basketball, happens in hockey, football, baseball....schools or teams will doing things under the table to get who they want.
This 100%.

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05-12-2013, 07:27 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by scoutman1 View Post
well it is not about having the stones to do it, it is about getting a product the following year on the ice and if you waste a pick your not doing that, your not going to bomb all year and blow your top 5 pick on a guy who is not going to come just to prove he should not be doing this, so the kid goes NCAA (no skin off his back, he is still getting better and getting scouted) and your left with a bust of a pick when the team picking behind you got a guy who is scoring 40 points as a rookie and someone who should develop into a potential franchise player, I think the GM would be fired pretty quick and if he wasn't the fans would chase him out of the building...as much as you want to see it happen you can not play with your future just to prove a point because now your playing with fire.

As for a 15 year old having an agent well they all do now, last thing teams want to deal with is a parent, we try to deal with the kid himself but dealing with a parent is not always great....the agents usually help the kid get noticed by QMJHL teams by plugging their names to scouts and they help stir the kid in the right direction knowing the avenues most parents do not know.....most agents at that age are really good with younger guys...plus an agent will help get the kid in hockey schools in the summer and camps with some of their idols who play in the NHL, agents are not always a bad thing and at 15 years old agents usually are not bad...there is always going to be money exchanged for top players, it happens in basketball, happens in hockey, football, baseball....schools or teams will doing things under the table to get who they want.
If a kid with an agent says he's going to NCAA then it's easy to call his bluff because if he has an agent he has already violated NCAA regulations

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05-12-2013, 07:46 AM
  #353
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If a kid with an agent says he's going to NCAA then it's easy to call his bluff because if he has an agent he has already violated NCAA regulations
ahhh that is only if he accepts money from an agent, he is allowed to have an agent, Vincent Lecavaliers brother has a few guys who went NCAA route...the main thing which stops a player from playing NCAA are accepting money on paper or even accepting gifts but an agent signs a kid no money is exchanging hands the player is not making a wage, kids are allowed to have advisors they are the ones who help kids keep their NCAA elegibility if that is the route they want to go.

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05-12-2013, 08:52 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by scoutman1 View Post
well it is not about having the stones to do it, it is about getting a product the following year on the ice and if you waste a pick your not doing that, your not going to bomb all year and blow your top 5 pick on a guy who is not going to come just to prove he should not be doing this, so the kid goes NCAA (no skin off his back, he is still getting better and getting scouted) and your left with a bust of a pick when the team picking behind you got a guy who is scoring 40 points as a rookie and someone who should develop into a potential franchise player, I think the GM would be fired pretty quick and if he wasn't the fans would chase him out of the building...as much as you want to see it happen you can not play with your future just to prove a point because now your playing with fire.
it is all about having the stones to draft who you want. if there's going to be a draft, it shouldn't be dictated by the kids, parents, and agents. it should be dictated by the teams. if the kids, parents, and agents get to choose where the kid goes, its time to scrap the draft altogether.

I understand the logic of not wanting to waste a high pick. but if i'm an owner, i'd want my gm and scouts to draft whoever they thought was best. i'd be pretty confident that 9 times out of 10, that pick wouldn't be wasted. either the kid will come play on my team, or i'll be able to trade him for something of equal or better quality. i'd be willing to take my chances.

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As for a 15 year old having an agent well they all do now, last thing teams want to deal with is a parent, we try to deal with the kid himself but dealing with a parent is not always great....the agents usually help the kid get noticed by QMJHL teams by plugging their names to scouts and they help stir the kid in the right direction knowing the avenues most parents do not know.....most agents at that age are really good with younger guys...plus an agent will help get the kid in hockey schools in the summer and camps with some of their idols who play in the NHL, agents are not always a bad thing and at 15 years old agents usually are not bad...there is always going to be money exchanged for top players, it happens in basketball, happens in hockey, football, baseball....schools or teams will doing things under the table to get who they want.
sounds like a lot of vague, ambiguous generalities. all these teams have scouting staffs, presumably to identify the best talents. yet a 15 year old in quebec or atlantic Canada needs an agent to get noticed? that makes no sense.

and they need an agent to help get them into summer hockey schools? no, all they need is the money to be able to pay to go to the hockey school.

again, its fascinating how these people have created this industry for themselves. seems to me all the agents really do is teach the kids that if you lie, cheat, and scheme in life, you'll get what you want.

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05-12-2013, 09:38 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
it is all about having the stones to draft who you want. if there's going to be a draft, it shouldn't be dictated by the kids, parents, and agents. it should be dictated by the teams. if the kids, parents, and agents get to choose where the kid goes, its time to scrap the draft altogether.

I understand the logic of not wanting to waste a high pick. but if i'm an owner, i'd want my gm and scouts to draft whoever they thought was best. i'd be pretty confident that 9 times out of 10, that pick wouldn't be wasted. either the kid will come play on my team, or i'll be able to trade him for something of equal or better quality. i'd be willing to take my chances.


sounds like a lot of vague, ambiguous generalities. all these teams have scouting staffs, presumably to identify the best talents. yet a 15 year old in quebec or atlantic Canada needs an agent to get noticed? that makes no sense.

and they need an agent to help get them into summer hockey schools? no, all they need is the money to be able to pay to go to the hockey school.

again, its fascinating how these people have created this industry for themselves. seems to me all the agents really do is teach the kids that if you lie, cheat, and scheme in life, you'll get what you want.
I think the main thing here is that what scoutman is saying is that hockey, and in fact all sports, are businesses from top to bottom. The whole 'amateur' piece for hockey has in the last 20 years been turned inside out quite a bit. In the end, even Junior teams want to turn as big a profit as they can.

If a family advisor ( i wont use 'agent' ) who is industry connected can get their player seen by the right people and get that player to achieve their goals, then its a win-win for the player and advisor. Compare that to an equal quality player who spends $12k a year on their sport/training and perhaps gets nothing in return... it creates the industry itself. As for the hockey camp thing, i think he is referring to invite only high-end pro team driven or NHL driven events. Of course any player can pay his money and go to very elite camps and there are thousands, but to get a chance to go to one that instantly puts your name directly in the hands of people that can make the difference between getting NHL drafted or not? well ... that might be worth it for some players that have the ability and just need a little 'help'. Im not sure i will call it lying and cheating as these people are paying for their exposure. If there is a player that is the top for his age group and the next age group up, people will take notice no problem, but the next layer of players below that is where it gets grey and getting exposed properly can make all the difference.

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05-12-2013, 10:04 AM
  #356
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You are all making it way too complicated.....you could have an agent whether you you go junior or school.....he is an advisor until he turns 18 but can do all the functions an agent can except money.
Jeremie roy has made it clear that if he shows up at the draft it is because he will play in the Q.....if he is not at the draft, it is because he willNOT play in the Q
Glad you stayed on point. Im generalizing, as the previous 3 posts were, and you're now talking specifically about Roy.




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05-12-2013, 11:14 AM
  #357
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I think J.Roy ends up in QC.

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05-12-2013, 11:27 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
it is all about having the stones to draft who you want. if there's going to be a draft, it shouldn't be dictated by the kids, parents, and agents. it should be dictated by the teams. if the kids, parents, and agents get to choose where the kid goes, its time to scrap the draft altogether.

I understand the logic of not wanting to waste a high pick. but if i'm an owner, i'd want my gm and scouts to draft whoever they thought was best. i'd be pretty confident that 9 times out of 10, that pick wouldn't be wasted. either the kid will come play on my team, or i'll be able to trade him for something of equal or better quality. i'd be willing to take my chances.

sounds like a lot of vague, ambiguous generalities. all these teams have scouting staffs, presumably to identify the best talents. yet a 15 year old in quebec or atlantic Canada needs an agent to get noticed? that makes no sense.

and they need an agent to help get them into summer hockey schools? no, all they need is the money to be able to pay to go to the hockey school.

again, its fascinating how these people have created this industry for themselves. seems to me all the agents really do is teach the kids that if you lie, cheat, and scheme in life, you'll get what you want.
I appreciate what you're saying and I agree in many respects, but I think it's idealistic and out of touch with the reality of the situation at hand here. These are 15-year-olds trying to forge a career and getting pulled at from all angles, it's not fair to expect them to be entirely reasonable and accomodate the greater good. NCAA and CHL scouts/coaches are essentially agents, selling young talent on their programs and selling their management on the young talent. Most of them are honest but there are some that do not always have the interests of the player at hand. Just because a player would benefit a team, doesn't mean that team would benefit a player. If a kid is going to be unhappy somewhere, why would you force that on him? For NHL players, the saving grace of going to an undesirable organization is that you still get paid good money. That's not the same case here.

CHL teams can offer education packages, which are generally one year of Canadian university for each year played. Save for the rare exceptions where elite players get promised substantial benefits up front, if a player goes to the Q and plays one year, he only gets the one year of school. He's also ineligible for NCAA hockey after his very first game. If he goes the college route and stays healthy, the opportunity to finish his degree is never in question, unless he decides to leave early. So for these kids, the decision is not as simple as you're making it seem and making the wrong decision can be crippling for their future. There are many players who spurn NCAA for the CHL and flame out quickly. Brandon Shea is a good cautionary tale. At least if you don't make it to the pros from the NCAA, you have a degree to fall back on, many times from a prestigious university.

If you draft the best 15-year-old available with the first overall pick and he goes the NCAA route (ex. Jonathan Toews), you get nothing for him. The Mackinnon situation worked out because he still wanted to play Q. More often, players simply commit to a different developmental path. Particularly with Americans, the college route can be more appealing than shipping off to rural Quebec or the Maritimes and dealing with a completely new culture and possibly a new language as well. I say that with all due respect to those organizations as they find ways to be successful despite that, but it's a reality that many teams deal with. The most appealing organizations for Americans are consistently competitive and/or Anglophone. There are maybe two teams that have the flexibility to draft whoever they want, and even they make sure to get a read on the player's interests beforehand and rank them accordingly. It is easier to attract American talent to the OHL, where all the teams are in English-speaking areas; and WHL, where for eligible players, heading east or north are the only two options to advance. In New England, many kids grow up dreaming about college hockey close to home and have to be convinced to do otherwise.

Good advisors don't lie, cheat, and scheme, they help their players sort through their opportunities, which can be vast and confusing in the case of top talents, and make the best decision for their future. I agree with you that the system is messed up in many ways but everyone plays the game. If you don't, as a player or as a team trying to be successful, you risk falling behind.


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05-12-2013, 11:29 AM
  #359
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I think J.Roy ends up in QC.
I think he ends up with his former teammate J Bahl. In any case....there are plenty of good players available in the draft.

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05-12-2013, 12:12 PM
  #360
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I think he ends up with his former teammate J Bahl. In any case....there are plenty of good players available in the draft.
He wouldn't fall that far... BLB would have to trade up.

I'm sure a big team will grab him.

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05-12-2013, 12:28 PM
  #361
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I appreciate what you're saying and I agree in many respects, but I think it's idealistic and out of touch with the reality of the situation at hand here. These are 15-year-olds trying to forge a career and getting pulled at from all angles, it's not fair to expect them to be entirely reasonable and accomodate the greater good. NCAA and CHL scouts/coaches are essentially agents, selling young talent on their programs and selling their management on the young talent. Most of them are honest but there are some that do not always have the interests of the player at hand. Just because a player would benefit a team, doesn't mean that team would benefit a player. If a kid is going to be unhappy somewhere, why would you force that on him? For NHL players, the saving grace of going to an undesirable organization is that you still get paid good money. That's not the same case here.

CHL teams can offer education packages, which are generally one year of Canadian university for each year played. Save for the rare exceptions where elite players get promised substantial benefits up front, if a player goes to the Q and plays one year, he only gets the one year of school. He's also ineligible for NCAA hockey after his very first game. If he goes the college route and stays healthy, the opportunity to finish his degree is never in question, unless he decides to leave early. So for these kids, the decision is not as simple as you're making it seem and making the wrong decision can be crippling for their future. There are many players who spurn NCAA for the CHL and flame out quickly. Brandon Shea is a good cautionary tale. At least if you don't make it to the pros from the NCAA, you have a degree to fall back on, many times from a prestigious university.

If you draft the best 15-year-old available with the first overall pick and he goes the NCAA route (ex. Jonathan Toews), you get nothing for him. The Mackinnon situation worked out because he still wanted to play Q. More often, players simply commit to a different developmental path. Particularly with Americans, the college route can be more appealing than shipping off to rural Quebec or the Maritimes and dealing with a completely new culture and possibly a new language as well. I say that with all due respect to those organizations as they find ways to be successful despite that, but it's a reality that many teams deal with. The most appealing organizations for Americans are consistently competitive and/or Anglophone. There are maybe two teams that have the flexibility to draft whoever they want, and even they make sure to get a read on the player's interests beforehand and rank them accordingly. It is easier to attract American talent to the OHL, where all the teams are in English-speaking areas; and WHL, where for eligible players, heading east or north are the only two options to advance. In New England, many kids grow up dreaming about college hockey close to home and have to be convinced to do otherwise.

Good advisors don't lie, cheat, and scheme, they help their players sort through their opportunities, which can be vast and confusing in the case of top talents, and make the best decision for their future. I agree with you that the system is messed up in many ways but everyone plays the game. If you don't, as a player or as a team trying to be successful, you risk falling behind.
Agree with your well written statement. With the exception that their really isn't any point in a 15 year old who is going the NCAA route to even have an advisor. Why be forced at 15 to have one just because your peers do....get one when you are old enough to know its the right one for you. Not the right one for your parents...In the long run everyone including the advisor would be better off. If you are good enough you don't need one at 15 the opportunities will still be there for you as well as the kid with the advisor.

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05-12-2013, 12:31 PM
  #362
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He wouldn't fall that far... BLB would have to trade up.

I'm sure a big team will grab him.
5 teams have 12 first round picks (Gat 3, Val D'or 3, Bathurst, Chi and St John all have 2). I am sure there will be plenty of movement on draft day.

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05-12-2013, 12:45 PM
  #363
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5 teams have 12 first round picks (Gat 3, Val D'or 3, Bathurst, Chi and St John all have 2). I am sure there will be plenty of movement on draft day.
Will be a big day. BAC have 2 I believe.

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05-12-2013, 12:48 PM
  #364
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Will be a big day. BAC have 2 I believe.
I think BC has only 1 (Hali's pick from Quebec).

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05-12-2013, 01:05 PM
  #365
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I think BC has only 1 (Hali's pick from Quebec).
They trade a pick but I think they had 3 at one point.

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05-12-2013, 01:05 PM
  #366
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Agree with your well written statement. With the exception that their really isn't any point in a 15 year old who is going the NCAA route to even have an advisor. Why be forced at 15 to have one just because your peers do....get one when you are old enough to know its the right one for you. Not the right one for your parents...In the long run everyone including the advisor would be better off. If you are good enough you don't need one at 15 the opportunities will still be there for you as well as the kid with the advisor.
I agree completely. I don't like where things are headed with 98's committing to schools. It's too young. They shouldn't have advisors, but in some cases it's better to have a good advisor than to let the parents steer the ship.

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05-12-2013, 02:15 PM
  #367
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Looks like you were right on Kennedy based on the CSR list, not so much with Yotchoff. He wasn't even on the list which was somewhat surprising.

Yeah I was surprised about that. Must have not added the size over the course of this year that he needed to in order to make the next step. That's all I can think of. Obviously a smaller player, but I still thought he'd slot into the rankings somewhere.

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05-12-2013, 06:27 PM
  #368
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There are a lot less crazy/scamming advisers or agents out there then crazy hockey parents. There's nothing worse then a crazy hockey parent. At least an agent or adviser usually has some credibility in the hockey world and can benefit a young player with their connections. Hockey parents who try to do it often get in the way of their kids. It's really a shame for the kids. I'm sure there's players every year who could be a late 7th or 8th round pick in the Q draft but they go crazy, calling GM's, pestering scouts at the rinks, and pushing their kids names in hockey circles and it just rubs everyone the wrong way and they avoid the kid completely. Unfortunately those crazy hockey parents never learn and keep it up. It's those people that need the advisers/agents more then anyone lol

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05-12-2013, 06:34 PM
  #369
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I appreciate what you're saying and I agree in many respects, but I think it's idealistic and out of touch with the reality of the situation at hand here. These are 15-year-olds trying to forge a career and getting pulled at from all angles, it's not fair to expect them to be entirely reasonable and accomodate the greater good. NCAA and CHL scouts/coaches are essentially agents, selling young talent on their programs and selling their management on the young talent. Most of them are honest but there are some that do not always have the interests of the player at hand. Just because a player would benefit a team, doesn't mean that team would benefit a player. If a kid is going to be unhappy somewhere, why would you force that on him? For NHL players, the saving grace of going to an undesirable organization is that you still get paid good money. That's not the same case here.
I understand that what i'm describing isn't the reality of today, but there's no valid reason why is can't be. its all very complicated because that's how everyone wants it to be. everyone involved makes it as complicated as possible in order to create this industry for themselves, and ultimately make money.

kids are definitely being pulled in many different directions, but an agent only adds another unnecessary pull.

an excellent question as to why a 15 year old should be forced to play somewhere he doesn't want to play. i'll take a high-profile kid from my area as an example. lets say that if Nathan noel had his choice to play with any team in the qmjhl, he'd choose Halifax. assuming they want him, why can't he just sign with Halifax? why is he forced into a draft?

what I find so ridiculous about the whole thing is that everyone knows the draft is a farce. the league knows, the teams know, the parents and agents know, the kids know, and the fans know. so why does the charade continue? obviously the answer to that question is...money. its an charade that continues simply to provide jobs for people.

everyone knows its a total sham, yet everyone pretends its legit. that's just weird.

Quote:
Good advisors don't lie, cheat, and scheme, they help their players sort through their opportunities, which can be vast and confusing in the case of top talents, and make the best decision for their future. I agree with you that the system is messed up in many ways but everyone plays the game. If you don't, as a player or as a team trying to be successful, you risk falling behind.
the whole "playing the ncaa card" scheme that we see every year is lying and cheating. I assume this trick was thought up by some agent a long time ago, and obviously it continues today.

absolutely everyone is playing the same game. as I said, everyone involved knows full well that the draft is nothing but a charade, yet everyone continues on as if its legit. if you don't play the game, you certainly risk falling behind, but if I was a wealthy team owner, its a risk i'd be willing to take. I think that's how this mess will be fixed. someone is going to have a stones to stand up and call this what it is....a total and complete sham. someone just needs to think outside the box, not be part of the charade, and call it for what it is. that's when it will start to change for the better.

I find the "agent" angle very interesting. who are these guys? what kind of education and experience do they have that qualifies them to do this? and more interestingly, how much do they get paid? what's the going rate to be a 15 year old kid's agent for a year? do they sign contracts with the kids and their families? and what specifically do the agents provide for this? the role of the agent seems very vague and ambiguous to me.

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05-12-2013, 07:24 PM
  #370
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I understand that what i'm describing isn't the reality of today, but there's no valid reason why is can't be. its all very complicated because that's how everyone wants it to be. everyone involved makes it as complicated as possible in order to create this industry for themselves, and ultimately make money.

kids are definitely being pulled in many different directions, but an agent only adds another unnecessary pull.

an excellent question as to why a 15 year old should be forced to play somewhere he doesn't want to play. i'll take a high-profile kid from my area as an example. lets say that if Nathan noel had his choice to play with any team in the qmjhl, he'd choose Halifax. assuming they want him, why can't he just sign with Halifax? why is he forced into a draft?

what I find so ridiculous about the whole thing is that everyone knows the draft is a farce. the league knows, the teams know, the parents and agents know, the kids know, and the fans know. so why does the charade continue? obviously the answer to that question is...money. its an charade that continues simply to provide jobs for people.

everyone knows its a total sham, yet everyone pretends its legit. that's just weird.


the whole "playing the ncaa card" scheme that we see every year is lying and cheating. I assume this trick was thought up by some agent a long time ago, and obviously it continues today.

absolutely everyone is playing the same game. as I said, everyone involved knows full well that the draft is nothing but a charade, yet everyone continues on as if its legit. if you don't play the game, you certainly risk falling behind, but if I was a wealthy team owner, its a risk i'd be willing to take. I think that's how this mess will be fixed. someone is going to have a stones to stand up and call this what it is....a total and complete sham. someone just needs to think outside the box, not be part of the charade, and call it for what it is. that's when it will start to change for the better.

I find the "agent" angle very interesting. who are these guys? what kind of education and experience do they have that qualifies them to do this? and more interestingly, how much do they get paid? what's the going rate to be a 15 year old kid's agent for a year? do they sign contracts with the kids and their families? and what specifically do the agents provide for this? the role of the agent seems very vague and ambiguous to me.
the draft isn't a farce, i think you should do research before getting too involved in this, this is my job so I know this area way too well.....it is not like there are 10 or 15 players playing NCAA it is usually one or two guys...and again a team can not draft a player that is not going to play for him and throw away a future, it is not realistic and again that would be a dumb move by a team to waste that pick, you do not have many chances to improve your team and the draft being a HUGE one you do not waste that to prove a point....if a player falls to round 3 or so who you think could be playing it then I say take him and see if he is bluffing or not but do not waste a 1st or 2nd rounder on a guy your not sure about because the only one that deal is going to hurt is your team....and it is not like the players are doing anything wrong they are exploiting an avenue given to them at the moment and in 50% of the cases the player is really going NCAA, but to say a draft is BS basically is so far from the truth........you still have the players go in the order teams like the guy beside maybe one or two guys, not like everyone has deals.

also above to say what is the sense of scouts if agents are pumping the kids like i said well the agents we all know them, they are at all the tournaments with us, there are agents who are respected and when they say "I have a guy from PEI playing at a prep school in Ontario that is really good" well then we will go take a look at him and see what "WE" as a team think of him.

Im still scratching my head over how you think drafting a guy in the 1st round and just throwing the pick away and letting a guy go NCAA rather than a team he has a deal worked out with is going to benifit your team, you miss that whole year getting an impact player and if your picking high you really do not have much you are working with in the 1st place, so now you have another year of the organization or fans to have anything to build around or look forward to the following year....so say this year I take Jeremy Roy 1st overall knowing he is playing NCAA game or maybe he is just going NCAA instead of playing the game but me being a team I can not tell that, so I take J Roy, 2nd overall gets Nicolas Roy or another highly ranked guy who is already saying he is coming to play in the league....so next year comes and J Roy does not attend my team BUT all the other teams have great rookies playing for them and making an impact on their teams now, so i just lost out BIG TIME, being the GM there the ownders and investors are going to come down on my head, not to mention the fans what they think and my team in general having to go through another year of not having much plus the fact knowing I could have taken a great player who would have come it and played for me and I would have had something to build my team around because when all is said and done it is on how well you do as a team not proving a player right and wrong it stratagy of this game is to have your team win not to prove points it is not a game anymore it is a business and our record is everything, if your not improving your team then what good are you there and with a bone head move doing that at the draft you would find yourself out of a job pretty fast. It is like layers with contracts and salary caps in the NHL, they put caps on salaries but lawyers find ways around the cap to get the most for their client eh, it is all a business.

as for the agent kid thing an agent usually does not get paid untill the kid goes pro and signs a money contract then they get 4%....so they invest their money flying the kid to camps and stuff hoping in the long run he is going to pay off....not all kids have agents just the really good players do and the agents have to get them early because by the time they are 16 most of them are gone.


Last edited by scoutman1: 05-12-2013 at 07:29 PM.
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05-12-2013, 07:25 PM
  #371
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what is your defnition of a big team....teams change every year....do you mean solid organization?
Big market.

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05-12-2013, 07:50 PM
  #372
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the draft isn't a farce, i think you should do research before getting too involved in this, this is my job so I know this area way too well.....
I know this area pretty well too. you don't have the market cornered on that.

what's your job? obviously you're personally involved, so you're part of the problem. you know the draft is a farce, yet you can't or won't admit it, like all the others who work in the industry. if you admit its a farce, you're admitting that your job is a farce, and obviously you're not going to do that. its in your personal best interest to keep the charade going.

Quote:
also above to say what is the sense of scouts if agents are pumping the kids like i said well the agents we all know them, they are at all the tournaments with us, there are agents who are respected and when they say "I have a guy from PEI playing at a prep school in Ontario that is really good" well then we will go take a look at him and see what "WE" as a team think of him.
so you'll listen to an agent in this circumstance? you know he's just trying to line his own pockets, right? I assume if "his kid" gets drafted by you, it means more money for him. yet you fall for this scam and will travel to Ontario just to see "his kid"? that's weird.

Quote:
Im still scratching my head over how you think drafting a guy in the 1st round and just throwing the pick away and letting a guy go NCAA rather than a team he has a deal worked out with is going to benifit your team
if I know 100% the kid is going ncaa, I wouldn't draft him. if I suspect he's "playing the ncaa card", i'm definitely going to draft him.

as I said, i'd take my chances that 9 times out of 10, my team will benefit by taking the best player available, regards of what he and his agent are saying. either the kid will play for my team, or i'll be able to move him for a good return. and if he actually goes ncaa and I get nothing from that pick, so be it. sucks for me. but again, i'd take the risk that it wouldn't cripple my team forever. the tri-city americans missed on toews, but it didn't kill them.

Quote:
as for the agent kid thing an agent usually does not get paid untill the kid goes pro and signs a money contract then they get 4%....so they invest their money flying the kid to camps and stuff hoping in the long run he is going to pay off....not all kids have agents just the really good players do and the agents have to get them early because by the time they are 16 most of them are gone.
so a kid at age 14 or 15 signs a contract with some guy calling himself an agent that says if the kid ever happens to turn pro, this agent gets 4% of the money? that's totally absurd.

and the agent spends his own money flying the kid around at ages 14 and 15, in the hopes that some day the kid might turn pro? that sounds even more absurd. ridiculous business model. that's a far crazier risk that drafting a kid who claims he's going ncaa.

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05-12-2013, 08:15 PM
  #373
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I know this area pretty well too. you don't have the market cornered on that.

what's your job? obviously you're personally involved, so you're part of the problem. you know the draft is a farce, yet you can't or won't admit it, like all the others who work in the industry. if you admit its a farce, you're admitting that your job is a farce, and obviously you're not going to do that. its in your personal best interest to keep the charade going.


so you'll listen to an agent in this circumstance? you know he's just trying to line his own pockets, right? I assume if "his kid" gets drafted by you, it means more money for him. yet you fall for this scam and will travel to Ontario just to see "his kid"? that's weird.


if I know 100% the kid is going ncaa, I wouldn't draft him. if I suspect he's "playing the ncaa card", i'm definitely going to draft him.

as I said, i'd take my chances that 9 times out of 10, my team will benefit by taking the best player available, regards of what he and his agent are saying. either the kid will play for my team, or i'll be able to move him for a good return. and if he actually goes ncaa and I get nothing from that pick, so be it. sucks for me. but again, i'd take the risk that it wouldn't cripple my team forever. the tri-city americans missed on toews, but it didn't kill them.


so a kid at age 14 or 15 signs a contract with some guy calling himself an agent that says if the kid ever happens to turn pro, this agent gets 4% of the money? that's totally absurd.

and the agent spends his own money flying the kid around at ages 14 and 15, in the hopes that some day the kid might turn pro? that sounds even more absurd. ridiculous business model. that's a far crazier risk that drafting a kid who claims he's going ncaa.
im done replying to you about this stuff, you have no clue about the business nor how things work but yet open your mouth to call things farces and stuff but yet have no clue about them...you can pretend all you want to knlw what you talk about, but im a scout for a team in the league and been in this business to know what is needed for a team to have a future.

lol to think a guy just walks up, hey im an agent...not like they work for big companies like Octagon or CMG and they have a license to be agents and not like all an agent does is sign a kid and that is it...i know a lot of agents and like all scouts we do our own work and reserach but if a guy i know says this guy is good ill send questions to the head scout asking if he knows of him and see if someone can get to see him sometime....

and the draft being a charad LOL so one or two players in the whole draft if any in that year saying they are going ncaa make it a charad LOL please......you make it sound like we do not know what we are doing and walking around with question marks and just listening to what people tell us to listen to lol....duuuuhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

ya so agents must be doing something right, they seem to live pretty good lives...not like they are flying them all over the world lol...anyway this is last of my replying to these absurd questions, it is alright not to know much about the business but do not go on like you know everything about it and fight about the facts but yet show you do not know.


Last edited by scoutman1: 05-12-2013 at 08:20 PM.
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05-12-2013, 10:04 PM
  #374
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Ill vouch for scoutman on him being in the league.

There's more then 1-2 kids a year who play the NCAA card.

Teams do a lot of research and avoid kids cause of many factors.

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05-13-2013, 06:30 AM
  #375
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Question for Scoutman1

Scoutman1, being a scout for a team, how much does your team rely on the CSR LIST as opposed to your list?

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