HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Bernier trade in offseason?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-12-2013, 04:58 PM
  #26
hangons
Registered User
 
hangons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Westlake Village
Country: United States
Posts: 798
vCash: 500
That Colorado goalie was traded for a first and second round pick to Washington a few years back.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...mov-avalanche/

hangons is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 04:58 PM
  #27
Cook24
Registered User
 
Cook24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Chino, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,146
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Cook24
Bernier to Philly for Matt Read

Please...

Cook24 is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 05:00 PM
  #28
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 40,570
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hangons View Post
That Colorado goalie was traded for a first and second round pick to Washington a few years back.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...mov-avalanche/
You have that backwards. The Washington goalie was dealt to Colorado.

Ziggy Stardust is online now  
Old
05-12-2013, 05:02 PM
  #29
ScoreZeGoals
Boooorrrrriiiinnnnng
 
ScoreZeGoals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 12,197
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck U View Post
I said back awhile ago ... with the potential GLUT of Goalies on the market this coming off season, don't expect to get as much for Bernier as Dean (and we) had hoped for.

Bernier only slightly upped his stock with his play this season, but there are going to be way too many goalies up for grabs ... that his stock goes down ?

- Ray Emery (CHI)
- Niklas Backstrom (MIN)
- Evgeni Nabkov (NYI)
- Thomas Griess (SJS)
- Nicoli Khabibulin (EDM)
- Mike Smith (PHX)
- Dan Ellis (CAR)
- Jose Theodore (FLA)
- Chris Mason (NAS)
- Anton Khudobin (BOS)
- Roberto Luongo (VAN)
- Ilya Bryzgalov (PHI)
- Jonas Hiller (ANA)

I know it's not going to be popular, and Bernier himself might not like it (oh well tough, suck it up kid ) ... BUT, I can potentially see us keeping Bernier ... might get messy, but this off season might not be the best time to move him ? sign to a short term extension and try again next year or the year after ? after the Goalie market shakes out in our favor. Plus IF we make another deep run, and Bernier just maybe gets his name on the Cup a second time ... maybe he'll accept that there are worse things he could be doing than playing back-up for a perennial Cup contending team ?
There is a lot of old, average, and overpaid on that list. There is nobody on that list that posses the combination of young, cheap, an upside that Bernier does.


Last edited by ScoreZeGoals: 05-12-2013 at 05:09 PM.
ScoreZeGoals is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 05:08 PM
  #30
Puck U
2012 SC CHAMPIONS !
 
Puck U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Apple Valley, CA.
Country: United States
Posts: 8,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I don't see the drawback in our keeping Jb for another season if we have to.

He is one of the best young goalies in the league and so long as he continues to develop and improve his game we end up with the benefit of his services and he continues to up his value. If he decides to tank then nobody will want him and it will only hurt his chances of getting dealt.

And while I know that DL wants to take care of JB, a player who done everything asked of him by helping move him along there isn't any reason to make a bad deal in doing so.

If we end up with JB for another year then so be it. If we move him it will be for what we are looking for and really nothing less.

No reason why we should.
Ahhh but you sir are wise enough to know the difference between popular and practical something not many others can relate to.

Puck U is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 05:29 PM
  #31
Butch 19
King me
 
Butch 19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Geographical Oddity
Country: United States
Posts: 11,168
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
You would never draft a goalie in the first round, cause 7 years later you might not be able to trade him for the same pick in which he was taken?? Do Brian Boyle and Lauri Tukonen mean you should never draft a forward in the first round?
Come on, you know a goalie is a very different player than any skater. They take longer to develop, and being a 1st round pick is no guarantee of success. This is true of skaters too, but moreso for goalies. Use a #11 on a goalie? I don't think so. And 7 years later, you may wind up the same # drafted player...? so what? DL has nothing to show for this high pick, except for a handful of games? A 4th or 5th rd pick could have got the same "results."

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
And Thomas Hickey mean you should never draft a defensemen in the first round??
What this means is that you need to follow the mock drafts of many (if not all!) hockey pundits who had Hickey going in the 2nd round (and who cares if Boston tried to trade up to get him). This was a no-brainer, yet the Kings got a big ZERO for a #4 overall.

Take your pick of any of these players that DL could have picked at #4: Couture, Perron, Gagner, Voracek, Eller, Alzner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
(not that I disagree with you, but your reasoning is quite flawed)
my reasoning is awesome!

Butch 19 is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 05:58 PM
  #32
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck U View Post
Ahhh but you sir are wise enough to know the difference between popular and practical something not many others can relate to.
Yes but in this situation and others where you are involved I am merely made of rubber and you sir, you are made of glue.


I even found a long winded way of saying right back at you!

Its a gift.

etherialone is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 06:20 PM
  #33
nki
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,743
vCash: 500
JB's worth has to be AT LEAST a mid to late 1st, pretty unlikely you'll get a better prospect than Bernier at that slot let alone one who is ready and groomed with NHL experience.

nki is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 06:57 PM
  #34
markisonfire
Registered User
 
markisonfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 4,856
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck U View Post
- Ray Emery (CHI) - 30 years old
- Niklas Backstrom (MIN) - 35 years old
- Evgeni Nabkov (NYI) - 37 years old
- Thomas Griess (SJS)
- Nicoli Khabibulin (EDM) - 40 years old
- Mike Smith (PHX) - 31 years old
- Dan Ellis (CAR) - 32 years old
- Jose Theodore (FLA) - 36 years old
- Chris Mason (NAS) - 37 years old
- Anton Khudobin (BOS)
- Roberto Luongo (VAN) - 34 years old
- Ilya Bryzgalov (PHI) - 32 years old
- Jonas Hiller (ANA) - 31 years old
The only two players on this list younger than 30 are Greiss and Khudobin, both of whom are 27. If any team wants a young, talented goalie for the future, the best available option is Jonathan Bernier. Does anyone really thing that any of these goaltenders, besides Hiller, Bryzgalov, and Luongo (and even then, really), could take them to a Stanley Cup?

The Islanders should trade for Jonathan Bernier. It's a trade that makes sense. He's been tested and prepared. He's learned alongside Quick for the past seven years. He is a solid player that will grow with the team, and that would be an excellent addition to a young Islander team that just made the playoffs for the first time in quite a while.

It would cost them either Nino Neiderreiter or a first round pick and a prospect, but they should do it. That's a fair trade for both sides.

Any one of those guys on the list above could be a solid backup goalie next season. In an ideal situation, that's what would happen. For what it's worth, I'm a big Islanders fan as well.

markisonfire is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 07:20 PM
  #35
Omni Owl
Trapped on a Planet
 
Omni Owl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,337
vCash: 500
Kinda regret making that Strome for Bernier proposal thread. That got shot down quick. Couldn't even convince them to pry away Nino. Apparenty Bernier isn't worth much. I understand the goalie market is going to be over saturated but I think JB is ready to take over a #1 spot and being very good in the process...

Omni Owl is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 08:06 PM
  #36
Tadite
Registered User
 
Tadite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rhode Island
Country: United States
Posts: 4,935
vCash: 500
They're goalies. Early mid thirties maybe the death of forwards but not them.

I think we're going to try to keep him. One more back injury to Quick and the world can come down around our ears with tears. A 2nd rounder isn't worth losing the insurance. Lots depends on him. He's RFA. Could simply demand a trade. Doesn't have to sign.

The lost half a season really screwed his career. Guy lost 30-40+ starts!

Tadite is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 08:20 PM
  #37
Puck U
2012 SC CHAMPIONS !
 
Puck U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Apple Valley, CA.
Country: United States
Posts: 8,344
vCash: 500
Rightly or wrongly so ... nobody is going to VALUE Bernier as HIGHLY as WE do, if they did he'd have been traded by now, kind of really as simple as that.

Take off the Kings Purple tinted glasses for sec. and consider most teams already have a young unproven goalie prospect in their system, so why trade valuable assets for another in Bernier ?

IF you look at the hard numbers, Bernier only has 62 NHL games to his name (NONE in the Playoffs either mind you.), 29 Wins, with a .912 Sv % and 2.36 GAA. Not exactly WOW ! I must have him, trade a 1st and decent prospect type of numbers. I actually thought THIS year was one of Bernier's BEST seasons as a King (and stats wise it WAS), but even then he went 9 of 14 w/ .922 SV% and a 1.88 GAA. Respectable yes, but some of those goalies on that list of UFA's / potential trade bait goalies had better numbers. Heck Anton Khudobin had almost the same numbers as Bernier, and I'd bet 75% of you would be saying WHO ? Yeah fans of the other 29 teams are saying it about Bernier right back at you.

Yes we know what he did in the Q, and with Manchester, and yes many here think someday he MAY be better than Quick yadda yadda yadda ... but obviously the 29 other GM's in the NHL don't Value him as highly as Dean Lombardi is right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
Does anyone really think that any of these goaltenders, besides Hiller, Bryzgalov, and Luongo (and even then, really), could take them to a Stanley Cup?
Do you really think BERNIER could ? ... BUT More Importantly ... DO any of the other 29 GM's in the NHL ?

Obviously Philly thought Bryzgalov could based on what they gave up to get him and the contract they gave him.

Obviously Vancouver thought Luongo could based on what they gave up to get him and the contract they gave him.

I'm sure IF Hiller hits the market, some team WILL think he could and follow suit in doing what Philly & Vancouver did, again rightly or wrongly, but you can't argue that some team will THINK this.


YOU say Bernier is better ... well Toronto put their faith in Reimer & Scrivens ...
YOU say Bernier is better ... well Tampa Bay is putting their faith in Ben Bishop & Anders Lindback ...
YOU say Bernier is better ... well (insert Team Name here) is putting their faith in (insert Goalie Name here) ...

Frankly, the MORE I consider it ... hate to tell you Bernie, but suck it up buttercup you'll be Quick's back-up for at least one more year I'm thinking ?


Last edited by Puck U: 05-12-2013 at 08:30 PM.
Puck U is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 08:26 PM
  #38
King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
 
King'sPawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hangons View Post
Do you think if we trade him we could get the #2 or #3 pick in the draft from either the Panthers or Lighting? The Junior stats of Drouin and MacKinnon are sick. Yes, I know it's the Q just saying...
Would you trade Doughty at 18 years-old for another team's back-up goalie?

Because that's what you're basically asking, when you offer Bernier for the #2 overall pick.

You might be able to get the first round pick from: New York Islanders, Calgary (for either the Pittsburgh or St. Louis first round picks), possibly New Jersey.

Beyond that, I don't know of a contending team who considers Bernier an upgrade over their goalie (who can give a first round pick in 2013), nor is there a rebuilding team who would pay more than a mid first round pick for Bernier.

King'sPawn is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 08:30 PM
  #39
damacles1156
Registered User
 
damacles1156's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,088
vCash: 500
I think Johnny B gets resigned for another year. There is not really a lot of options out there.

Also Lombardi's price according to other GM's remains high.

Everyone including Johnny B may just wait till he is a UFA.

damacles1156 is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 08:31 PM
  #40
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 40,570
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck U View Post
Rightly or wrongly so ... nobody is going to VALUE Bernier as HIGHLY as WE do, if they did he'd have been traded by now, kind of really as simple as that.

Take off the Kings Purple tinted glasses for sec. and consider most teams already have a young unproven goalie prospect in their system, so why trade valuable assets for another in Bernier ?

IF you look at the hard numbers, Bernier only has 62 NHL games to his name (NONE in the Playoffs either mind you.), 29 Wins, with a .912 Sv % and 2.36 GAA. Not exactly WOW ! I must have him, trade a 1st and decent prospect type of numbers.

Yes we know what he did in the Q, and with Manchester, and yes many here think someday he MAY be better than Quick yadda yadda yadda ... but obviously the 29 other GM's in the NHL don't Value him as highly as Dean Lombardi is right now.



Do you really think BERNIER could ? ... more importantly ... DO any of the other 29 GM's in the NHL ?

Obviously Philly thought Bryzgalov could based on what they gave up to get him and the contract they gave him.

Obviously Vancouver thought Luongo could based on what they gave up to get him and the contract they gave him.

I'm sure IF Hiller hits the market, some team WILL think he could and follow suit in doing what Philly & Vancouver did, again rightly or wrongly, but you can't argue that some team will THINK this.


YOU say Bernier is better ... well Toronto put their faith in Reimer & Scrivens ...
YOU say Bernier is better ... well Tampa Bay is putting their faith in Ben Bishop & Anders Lindback ...
YOU say Bernier is better ... well (insert Team Name here) is putting their faith in (insert Goalie Name here) ...

Frankly, the MORE I consider it ... hate to tell you Bernie, but suck it up buttercup you'll be Quick's back-up for at least one more year I'm thinking ?
Y'know, guys like Elliott, Thomas, Anderson, Smith didn't have a whole lot of playoff experience or experience as starting netminders until later in their careers.

Thomas got his first playoff start when he was 33, and he was 32 when he established himself as a starter.

Anderson was 28 when he got his first shot as a starter, but it wasn't until last season, when he was 30, when he became established. He was also 28 when he played in his first playoff game.

Elliott has had an up and down career and got a starting nod with the Sens when he was 24, he faltered, and bounced back last season when he was 26. He struggled again for the most part this season and his playoff performances thus far in his career haven't been anything to write home about.

Smith's first playoff game came when he was 28, but his career as a starter didn't take off till he was 29.

The point is, the teams that took these goalies in gambled on unproven netminders who lacked experience. They're not a Luongo or Bryzgalov or Khabibulin that came in with proven track records.

Look at the examples you cited in Luongo and Bryzgalov. Team's invested a ton in more experienced goalies, and what results do they have to show for it?

Columbus took a chance on Bobrovsky and it paid off for them. You don't think a team out there may believe that Bernier could break out like Bobrovsky? Look at the chance the Bruins took in trading for an inexperienced goaltending prospect in Tuukka Rask when they gave up former Calder Trophy winner Andrew Raycroft. That worked out pretty well for them, don't you think?

Bernier is a RFA, if there isn't interest in him out there, then how could he make a demand to be dealt to a team that will give him an opportunity to start? I think a team is out there that will seriously consider Bernier for that role. I don't know what it's going to cost or if Lombardi will get what he wants, but he's hung onto him this long, he isn't going to give him away for table scraps.

Ziggy Stardust is online now  
Old
05-12-2013, 08:44 PM
  #41
Puck U
2012 SC CHAMPIONS !
 
Puck U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Apple Valley, CA.
Country: United States
Posts: 8,344
vCash: 500
Ziggy I'm NOT debating your principle, as for the record I agree with it mostly ... in that Bernier SHOULD be the more obvious choice ... but IF NHL GM's agree'd with it also, might not Lombardi have had some shiny new 2nd LW or some shiny new Draft picks in hand by now ?

It's also WHY I prefaced my post by saying RIGHTLY or WRONGLY ... HOWEVER, all that said, HISTORY shows that teams DO (WRONGLY) exactly what I said ... they are more willing to risk it all on the big name, the HOT guy of the moment, even IF the results tend to back fire and blow up in their face.

You bring up Bobrovsky ... great, WHAT did Philly get for him ? a 2nd and 2 x 4th's Draft picks ... if Dean got ONLY a 2nd and 2x4th's for Bernier would that be enough for you ? would it be enough for Dean ? People here are asking for a 1st and a Proven Prospect ... that's a lot more than a 2nd and two 4th's ain't it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Bernier is a RFA, if there isn't interest in him out there, then how could he make a demand to be dealt to a team that will give him an opportunity to start? I think a team is out there that will seriously consider Bernier for that role. I don't know what it's going to cost or if Lombardi will get what he wants, but he's hung onto him this long, he isn't going to give him away for table scraps.
MAYBE ? ... looking over the options, IMO Calgary would seem to make the most sensible option, as I'm not sure their Goalie prospect pool is overly strong ? and they DO have 3 1st round draft picks last time I checked, or Maybe NJ not sure they have many good options after Brodeur ? but FAILING those options, it's why I kinda again agree "Lombardi has hung onto him this long and isn't giving him away for table scraps" and thus will continue to hang onto him at least one more year.


Last edited by Puck U: 05-12-2013 at 08:53 PM.
Puck U is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 08:46 PM
  #42
damacles1156
Registered User
 
damacles1156's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,088
vCash: 500
Dean's Rumored price is 1st and a B level prospect. No one has met that yet.

damacles1156 is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 09:31 PM
  #43
savemefromtears
Bravo Viva la France
 
savemefromtears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: City of Angels
Country: United States
Posts: 2,391
vCash: 500
Bernier is a RFA. What makes you think he wants to resign here in LA?

Not happening...

savemefromtears is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 09:33 PM
  #44
damacles1156
Registered User
 
damacles1156's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,088
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by savemefromtears View Post
Bernier is a RFA. What makes you think he wants to resign here in LA?

Not happening...
Might not have a choice, if no one is willing to put in a Offer sheet LA won't match....

What exactly is Johnny B going to do..Sit out a year ? He could go to Europe I guess.

He could sign a one year contract, back up again then be an UFA.

damacles1156 is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 09:35 PM
  #45
savemefromtears
Bravo Viva la France
 
savemefromtears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: City of Angels
Country: United States
Posts: 2,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Might not have a choice, if no one is willing to put in a Offer sheet LA won't match....

What exactly is Johnny B going to do..Sit out a year ? He could go to Europe I guess.

He could sign a one year contract, back up again then be an UFA.
Bernier has made it perfectly clear he wants out of Quick's shadow, moreso than JMFJ playing in Doughty's.

And when a player wants out and to move on, while they may understand what the market dictates, they only see what lies in front of them.

Trust me, I'd rather resign him for at least another year and see what happens, but I don't think Bernier has that in his MO.

savemefromtears is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 10:04 PM
  #46
kingsfan
Yes my liege!
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
^^^^ this is why I would never draft a goalie in the 1st round, and maybe not even in the 2nd.
It's flawed logic. of the 60 NHL goalies (starter and backup for each team) about half come from the 1st or 2nd round. You don't draft a goalie in the first or second round, you bypass half of the leagues talent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
Kings fans are going to be very very disappointed in Berniers return... (judging by this thread and the TR board).

I'm expecting a mid 2nd if that. Maybe Kings get lucky and someone offersheets him after the draft and the Kings pick up an extra 1st next year. So they can move picks at the deadline again for a piece needed for the next run.
Why only a mid-2nd? Lindback, Varlamnov, Bishop, etc. have all fetched more than that and Bernier is as proven as all of them except Varlamnov, who had playoff experience at that point. I'm expecting 2 2nds and another pick or a prospect, or the equivalent thereof.

The real trick will be to whom Bernier is dealt. New Jersey makes the most sense, expect for the fact both Hedberg and Broduer are signed for one more year and have NMC's, but maybe Lou is willing to use a buyout on Hedberg.

kingsfan is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 10:06 PM
  #47
kingsfan
Yes my liege!
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Might not have a choice, if no one is willing to put in a Offer sheet LA won't match....

What exactly is Johnny B going to do..Sit out a year ? He could go to Europe I guess.

He could sign a one year contract, back up again then be an UFA.
He could sit out. Ask O'Reilly. Certainly didn't hurt him. I doubt we'll get to that point though.

kingsfan is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 10:09 PM
  #48
damacles1156
Registered User
 
damacles1156's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,088
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
He could sit out. Ask O'Reilly. Certainly didn't hurt him. I doubt we'll get to that point though.
Could sit out....

Id rather get a paycheck though...

damacles1156 is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 10:24 PM
  #49
kingsfan
Yes my liege!
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Could sit out....

Id rather get a paycheck though...
Doesn't it depend on what the contract is though?

I think Bernier would be a UFA after two more NHL seasons. But if the Kings are offering just 1 year, he's back in the same boat next year, and you know LA won't offer him a huge raise on what he's getting now.

Assuming he doesn't get an RFA offer, he could likely get decent coin to go to Russia for a year, so it's not a big drop off in salary, if any. However in Russia he could be a starter and get playoff starts (if they make the playoffs). Could go a long way to helping prove he's got the means to be a starter.

kingsfan is offline  
Old
05-12-2013, 10:28 PM
  #50
Captain Mittens*
Catquistador
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Meow-ntain
Posts: 33,448
vCash: 69
We are perfect trading partners with the Isle.

They need a goalie. We need a guy like Nino N.

Captain Mittens* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:24 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.