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Ward taking Dagenais's sopt on the 2nd line?

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Old
01-01-2004, 05:24 PM
  #1
jcpenny
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Ward taking Dagenais's sopt on the 2nd line?

Dagenais has 10 points in 16 games. Not that bad if you look at it from a stat standpoint. However he is exactly like perrault, his onsist of being opportunistic and make most of his chances. Lets be honest, aside of his shot he's a liability on the ice.

When Ward got a look on the second line we saw right way that he can
bring 10 times more than what Dagenais brings: Quicker,stronger, hits defensive awarness, puck handling. But the question is will he stay there?

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01-01-2004, 05:42 PM
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RE-HABS
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When Ward came back I didn't think he would last on the 4th line too long. Ward is going there because his play and defensive play will help Zed and Ribs in the defensive zone more than dagenais can. Plus both are big players, but ward uses his size, Dagenais may have beter hands but Ward is the more complete player and can score too if the puck is put on his stick or a rebound is available around the net.

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01-01-2004, 05:43 PM
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Habs4Life
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Like i said in past posts, Ward should be on the second line..
He brings alot to the canadien's and proved it last year when he played!

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01-01-2004, 05:46 PM
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Where does this leave Dagenais then? I don't think he can play without Ribeiro. Keep him on the 4th line and play him on the PP ??

And what kind of message are we sending? 10 pts in 16 games and you get to go to the 4th line?

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01-01-2004, 05:55 PM
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jcpenny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
Where does this leave Dagenais then? I don't think he can play without Ribeiro. Keep him on the 4th line and play him on the PP ??

And what kind of message are we sending? 10 pts in 16 games and you get to go to the 4th line?
Thats the problem. But there are where hes completly useless on the ice.He cant skate nor create chances for himself.

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01-01-2004, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
Where does this leave Dagenais then? I don't think he can play without Ribeiro. Keep him on the 4th line and play him on the PP ??

And what kind of message are we sending? 10 pts in 16 games and you get to go to the 4th line?
Yes. Play him on the 4th line (for now) as a PP specialist. The guy is useless 5 on 5 unless he's 20' from the opposing net or closer. He cannot play defense, he doesn't use his size, he's not strong at all for a big man (often man-handled along the boards) and cannot pass or set plays to save his life. He's a 1-trick poney and should be treated as such. People often think that racking up points means you're an effective hockey player which is far from the case. Dagenais brings nothing more than a big shot. Ward, on the other hand, might score with a bit less regularity (although they still have to give him a chance to prove that fact) but brings grit, a physical dimension, defensive awareness, energy and playmaking skills that add up much faster than only a canon for a shot. Dagenais could be very valuable on the PP, but just like Perreault, that's pretty much it. Dagenais IMO has no future on a scoring line on any strong team just because there's so much holes in his game. He's a filler while waiting for more complete and talented kids like Kastsitsyn, Perezhogin, Balej, Plekanec, Higgins, etc. to develop and claim their spot in the lineup.

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01-01-2004, 06:02 PM
  #7
RE-HABS
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Like Munchausen said Dagenais is another filler, what was he another one year contract player this summer and probably thought to play in Hamilton all year. When Saku returns put Dagenais with Perreault and Sundstrum.

There isn't a plan in Montreal for Dagenais, there is for Balej, Perezoghtin, Higgins, Plekanec, Katys, Milroy and others like Locke, Urqhart and other draftees...but Dagenais was a summer signing to fill a hole, not to play every day on the 2nd line on the big club.

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01-01-2004, 06:27 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS
Like Munchausen said Dagenais is another filler, what was he another one year contract player this summer and probably thought to play in Hamilton all year. When Saku returns put Dagenais with Perreault and Sundstrum.

There isn't a plan in Montreal for Dagenais, there is for Balej, Perezoghtin, Higgins, Plekanec, Katys, Milroy and others like Locke, Urqhart and other draftees...but Dagenais was a summer signing to fill a hole, not to play every day on the 2nd line on the big club.
Guys it seems like you end to neglect waiver pick-ups. Dagenais has responded well up to now. I think I woud try one more thing with him before putting him on a forth line. IMO we would benefit from sending Bulis to the third line. He is such a good player when playing on the third line. He brings a whole new dimension to that line and seems to be at his best inthose situation. Not that he is not a good first line player but...

I would try the following for the top three lines:
Dagenais, Koivu, Ryder
Zednik, Ribeiro, Ward
Bulis, Juneau, Sundstrum

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01-01-2004, 06:47 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habruti!
Guys it seems like you end to neglect waiver pick-ups. Dagenais has responded well up to now. I think I woud try one more thing with him before putting him on a forth line. IMO we would benefit from sending Bulis to the third line. He is such a good player when playing on the third line. He brings a whole new dimension to that line and seems to be at his best inthose situation. Not that he is not a good first line player but...

I would try the following for the top three lines:
Dagenais, Koivu, Ryder
Zednik, Ribeiro, Ward
Bulis, Juneau, Sundstrum
Dagenais was demoted last night for a reason, I dont see the point of promoting him. Hes producing, but thats not all that matters. When hes not in the offensive zone hes completely invisible. The first line has been working and I dont see why we should fix it. Ward brings a lot more than Dagenais does, and it was quite evident in the 3rd last night. As much as I dont like Dackell, he has played very well this season, hes not the best finisher, but he fills his role to a tee and should not be displaced from the 3rd IMO.

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01-01-2004, 06:57 PM
  #10
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Dagenais has done well this season but only on the scoresheet. This team needs players that can do more then just float around the ice. I love his shot but thats about it. As for Ward...I think he is a lot better player then people realize and I hope CJ will give this guy a chance to do something. I don;'t know about everyone else but these 2 lines sound good to me :

Bulis-Koivu-Ryder
Zednik-Ribs-Ward

I also think that with Ward on the second line it will help Zednik out. Unlike Dagenais, Ward uses the size he has. He goes into the corners and takes the punishment in the front of the net. He has good speed and decent hands. With WArd's speed and grit he will open the ice more for Zednik and especially Ribs. And if you give those two guys space on the ice things will happen. Just look at the 3rd period against Dallas, that line created tons of chances and they were unlucky to not of scored.

I look forward to seeing what CJ is going to do on Sat.

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01-01-2004, 07:01 PM
  #11
RE-HABS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy
Dagenais has done well this season but only on the scoresheet. This team needs players that can do more then just float around the ice. I love his shot but thats about it. As for Ward...I think he is a lot better player then people realize and I hope CJ will give this guy a chance to do something. I don;'t know about everyone else but these 2 lines sound good to me :

Bulis-Koivu-Ryder
Zednik-Ribs-Ward

I also think that with Ward on the second line it will help Zednik out. Unlike Dagenais, Ward uses the size he has. He goes into the corners and takes the punishment in the front of the net. He has good speed and decent hands. With WArd's speed and grit he will open the ice more for Zednik and especially Ribs. And if you give those two guys space on the ice things will happen. Just look at the 3rd period against Dallas, that line created tons of chances and they were unlucky to not of scored.

I look forward to seeing what CJ is going to do on Sat.
You hit it on the nose when you say Ward uses his size and Dagenais doesn't, plus Ward can play with out the puck Dagenais needs the puck or he becomes invisable and not very useful. Ward isn't the most graceful skater but he is better than Dagenais in that department too.

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01-01-2004, 09:36 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habruti!
Guys it seems like you end to neglect waiver pick-ups.
Simply to clarify, Dagenais was signed, not claimed off the waivers.

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01-01-2004, 10:03 PM
  #13
G Man 77
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What hurt Ward is that he can be an effective 4th liner, while Dagenais can't.

So it gives the Habs an excuse to keep Ward down, and Dagenais up.

Dagenais also has a monster shot, one of the best in the league... Ward can't compete with him there.

Aside form that thought... Ward is more physical, faster (never thought I could say that about Jason), better in the corners and in front of the net, better defense.

I say do like Julien did in Dallas, start with Dagenais on the 2nd line... if he's not having a good night don't hesitate to have him switch places with Ward.

Stay with the hot guy, the competition will keep both honest.

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01-01-2004, 11:33 PM
  #14
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I like "G Man 77"'s idea. Why put Ward in a role we're not grooming him to play? Yes, Dagenais is a filler... but for the 2nd line. Switching them will only make your 4th line more useless.

Now a question... is Dagenais an UFA again after this season?

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Old
01-02-2004, 03:30 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas
Dagenais was demoted last night for a reason,

Anybody know what that reason was????

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Old
01-02-2004, 04:14 AM
  #16
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Ryder - Koivu - Zednik
Bulis - Ribeiro - Ward
Juneau - Begin - Sundstrom
Langdon/Kilger - Perrault - Dackell/Dagenais

Extra : Kilger , Dagenais , Gratton , Plekanec

Markov - Brisebois
Souray - Komisarek
Hainsey - Rivet

Extra : Bouillon , Quintal

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01-02-2004, 06:38 AM
  #17
Munchausen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Corner2
Anybody know what that reason was????
We all know what the reason was. He's been playing like crap since 3 games. Not only is he horrible in his own zone and a complete non-factor in the neutral zone (heck the opposition doesn't even have to start watching him before he's 25' in or less as he's so slow and uncreative) but added to that, he didn't even get in position to be dangerous close to the net nearly enough to justify his playing time. Someone playing like that has no deal on a 2nd line and he better get the message or he'll end up in Hamilton for the remainder of the year and won't come back up (nor will he get resigned this summer). He has to start putting a sense of urgency in his game. Balej deserves a chance right now and Dagenais simply does not the way he's playing, no matter his curent stats. I hope he makes me eat some crow, but I honestly don't think so. This guy always seems like he just half wants it and is not nearly as aggressive nor strong enough for the size he has. He's nothing more than a filler and the sooner somebody else steps up to take his spot, the better we will be. It's mostly a case of having nobody else (so no choice) right now.

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Old
01-02-2004, 08:08 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcpenny
Dagenais has 10 points in 16 games. Not that bad if you look at it from a stat standpoint. However he is exactly like perrault, his onsist of being opportunistic and make most of his chances. Lets be honest, aside of his shot he's a liability on the ice.

When Ward got a look on the second line we saw right way that he can
bring 10 times more than what Dagenais brings: Quicker,stronger, hits defensive awarness, puck handling. But the question is will he stay there?
i also beleive ward is a much better all round player then dagenais i just hope ward is given the same chances dagenais was given on the 2nd line, like 14 to 15 mins a game.and not just for a game or 2, and don't forget quite a few of dagenais points have come on the pp and not 5 on 5.

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Old
01-03-2004, 09:20 AM
  #19
Guy Caballero
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I don't think either Ward or Dagenais are the answer for line 2, but for now, Ward is probably better. There are simply too many shift where our second line has no impact whatsoever, and that must end as we go down the stretch.

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