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Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread Part 17: What does "bold" mean?

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Old
05-13-2013, 09:34 AM
  #326
Heavy Dee
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
Nowhere near enough. But solid base to this deal I'd say. I think it'll take something like Petry or Klefbom instead of Marincin to get the Preds interested...

Eberle, Klefbom, 2013 1st, 2014 2nd, conditional 2014 1st (if Oil make 2nd round playoffs)

Similar to the Pronger package, with a little bit more value in it



Nice idea here, sending back an LD to WAS in this deal. Value's probably fair here as well. I just think WAS is too reliant on Alzner's role as their top LD to move him.

I don't know if they get desperate enough to do this if Ribeiro leaves. I think they just move Johansson to 2C and try to fill that 1RW role with a UFA of some sort. Maybe Kuznetsov comes over sometime soon, he'll be instantly ready to be 2C.

Starting Lander at 3C is a risky move, I'd probably just stick with Horcoff for now, or buy him out and sign a Max Lapierre or something in that role.
You're crazy. What were the packages for pronged when he got traded three times? Not anywhere near what ur proposing

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05-13-2013, 09:46 AM
  #327
joestevens29
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I'm real curious to see what happens in STL. Halak obviously sick of the split and with Allen coming up someone has to be dealt in the next year or they risk losing one of Halak/Elliott for nothing.

Hitch then singled out his 1st rounders, which seems stupid. Especially given that it wasn't like LA had guys ripping up the score sheets.

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05-13-2013, 09:59 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Bergeron47 View Post
He's had 1 season since his rookie year that he's taken over 85 faceoffs and was 43.7%. He's taken 32 faceoffs in the last 3 years.
I just think we're already too weak of a faceoff team to be experimenting
Of all the issues involved in Horton moving back to the middle I'd say that his abilty on the dot would be far down the list. Much more important would be his ability to handle the defensive responsibilites vs the positive impact his physical attributes might bring to a line with wingers like Hall and/or Yakupov.

I wish I could find it but I beileve in his presser MacT mentioned that the analytics guys will tell you that on average for every 40 FO's you lose in your defensive zone one ends up in your net. A guy like Horton might take 200-300 own zone draws if he played as your number 2 center.

Of course loss of possesion time also impacts your offense. BUt the point is that while he might loose a few draws his work in other areas could increase possession time much more than the loss of a few faceoff might hurt you.

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05-13-2013, 10:19 AM
  #329
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
Of all the issues involved in Horton moving back to the middle I'd say that his abilty on the dot would be far down the list. Much more important would be his ability to handle the defensive responsibilites vs the positive impact his physical attributes might bring to a line with wingers like Hall and/or Yakupov.

I wish I could find it but I beileve in his presser MacT mentioned that the analytics guys will tell you that on average for every 40 FO's you lose in your defensive zone one ends up in your net. A guy like Horton might take 200-300 own zone draws if he played as your number 2 center.

Of course loss of possesion time also impacts your offense. BUt the point is that while he might loose a few draws his work in other areas could increase possession time much more than the loss of a few faceoff might hurt you.
I heard this on the radio as well.

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05-13-2013, 01:31 PM
  #330
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You're crazy. What were the packages for pronged when he got traded three times? Not anywhere near what ur proposing
Was Pronger locked up for 11 years?

11 years of Weber is worth more than 2 of Pronger.

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05-13-2013, 01:36 PM
  #331
joestevens29
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Was Pronger locked up for 11 years?

11 years of Weber is worth more than 2 of Pronger.
Pronger was locked up to 5 and lasted 1 year.

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Old
05-13-2013, 02:11 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I'm real curious to see what happens in STL. Halak obviously sick of the split and with Allen coming up someone has to be dealt in the next year or they risk losing one of Halak/Elliott for nothing.

Hitch then singled out his 1st rounders, which seems stupid. Especially given that it wasn't like LA had guys ripping up the score sheets.
I think Halak is done in St. Louis. He skipped media day.

Go get him MacT!
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/hitchco...3292--nhl.html

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05-13-2013, 04:01 PM
  #333
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I'd say Halak comes dirt cheap.
With Smith hitting UFA, Miller available, and Luongo to be had for free with the possibility of Hiller being moved, it's a good time to get a goalie.

I do have a strange feeling the Flames get one of Halak or Luongo this offseason.

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05-13-2013, 04:03 PM
  #334
nexttothemoon
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Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
I think Halak is done in St. Louis. He skipped media day.

Go get him MacT!
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/hitchco...3292--nhl.html

I wanted Halak for the Oilers when the Habs traded him to the Blues... but do the Oilers want to spend 3.75 million in Cap on Halak? Personally I think he's worth the money and the cap hit (same as Khabi) but there's plenty of other holes to fill and players to sign. I honestly don't see the Oilers using assets to acquire Halak.

Personally though, I'd do it as I think he's a solid goalie and he's young enough (28) to easily get 5+ more good years of performance from him. I also probably overvalue the Goalie position compared to some who want to get by with adequate goaltending but why not make that area strong if you can do it at a cheap enough cost.

Dubnyk/Halak imo would be a very solid duo for years to come... one less area to worry about.

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05-13-2013, 04:04 PM
  #335
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I think the Flames get Halak as well. Edmonton will probably stick with Dubnyk next year.

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05-13-2013, 04:05 PM
  #336
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An offseason of the high draft pick being a centre, a top-4 dman, and Jaro Halak without losing any of the major young pieces (Klefbom included) would be borderline "bold"

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Old
05-13-2013, 04:08 PM
  #337
nexttothemoon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergeron47 View Post
I'd say Halak comes dirt cheap.
With Smith hitting UFA, Miller available, and Luongo to be had for free with the possibility of Hiller being moved, it's a good time to get a goalie.

I do have a strange feeling the Flames get one of Halak or Luongo this offseason.
Yep.. Flames have 19 players signed for next year and still have over $18 million in cap space according to Cap Geek. They can basically afford any top goalie they want to throw money at.

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Old
05-13-2013, 04:21 PM
  #338
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sign mason raymond , viktor stalberg , michal handzus , peter regin and anton khudobin
trade prv + petry + picks/prospect for myers and stafford
trade gagner for gudbranson( if cant get him then petrovic +)
trade hemsky for jonathon blum
trade smyth and belanger for bag of pucks
draft center to take over 2C in future
hopefully klefbom makes team

Hall RNH Eberle
Stafford Horcoff Yakupov
Raymond Handzus Stalberg
Harti Regin Brown/Petrell

Smid Myers
N. Shultz J. Shultz
Klefbom Gudbranson/Petrovic
Blum

Dubnyk
Khudobin

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Old
05-13-2013, 04:27 PM
  #339
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On Halak, I'd say the Flames' need, cap space, and lack of urgency for a long time answers with solid G prospects makes them the perfect fit. He isn't the answer here in any case, we need a solid 1B--not someone who will be in a pissing match if he rides the pine behind Dubnyk.

But I've been wondering about a potential match for a trade between us with Sam Gagner and the Devils with Adam Henrique.

They need more scoring up front and have just locked up a similar payer to Henrique in Zajac long term. Also, Kovalchuk's best years came playing with a similar player to Sam in Marc Savard.

We need to upgrade sandpaper/size/intangibles in our top 6, specifically at C, and Sam might have outpriced himself for our collection of forwards. Henrique has the clutch blood that Ebs has, centered Hall on one of the Memorial Cup teams, and would slide in perfectly between those two on a scoring line. Also, he is a MacT player through and through.

I imagine we would ask for a little bit more back considering his regression and Gagner's breakout this year, but not much. Maybe a pick or two. Considering both are RFAs, the cap space thing won't be a deterrent to getting something done.

tl;dr - Gagner for Henrique and a 2nd or a 3rd, do you do it?

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05-13-2013, 05:08 PM
  #340
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Halak is a very good goalie...when he's healthy. In my view, he's Khabibulin 2.0 as every time I hear Halak's name it usually has the phrase "will miss time due to an injury" following it. I believe most of his previous injuries are groin related...we don't need another goalie with injury woes to replace the goalie who suffered from injury woes.

I'm not so sure Luongo or Halak winds up in Calgary either. They just re-upped MacDonald and from what I recall, Feaster wants Ramo on the team if Kiprusoff hangs them up, which is pretty much a foregone conclusion.

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05-13-2013, 05:17 PM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sethis View Post
On Halak, I'd say the Flames' need, cap space, and lack of urgency for a long time answers with solid G prospects makes them the perfect fit. He isn't the answer here in any case, we need a solid 1B--not someone who will be in a pissing match if he rides the pine behind Dubnyk.

But I've been wondering about a potential match for a trade between us with Sam Gagner and the Devils with Adam Henrique.

They need more scoring up front and have just locked up a similar payer to Henrique in Zajac long term. Also, Kovalchuk's best years came playing with a similar player to Sam in Marc Savard.

We need to upgrade sandpaper/size/intangibles in our top 6, specifically at C, and Sam might have outpriced himself for our collection of forwards. Henrique has the clutch blood that Ebs has, centered Hall on one of the Memorial Cup teams, and would slide in perfectly between those two on a scoring line. Also, he is a MacT player through and through.

I imagine we would ask for a little bit more back considering his regression and Gagner's breakout this year, but not much. Maybe a pick or two. Considering both are RFAs, the cap space thing won't be a deterrent to getting something done.

tl;dr - Gagner for Henrique and a 2nd or a 3rd, do you do it?
I think I would pull the trigger on a Gagner for Henrique + type of deal. Hall and Henrique were linemates in junior IIRC. Gagner is obviously the more proven player; however Henrique has the speed, and size over Gagner. A Hall, Yak and Henrique line would be a handful.

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05-13-2013, 06:17 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Distinct View Post
I think I would pull the trigger on a Gagner for Henrique + type of deal. Hall and Henrique were linemates in junior IIRC. Gagner is obviously the more proven player; however Henrique has the speed, and size over Gagner. A Hall, Yak and Henrique line would be a handful.
You can argue other skills but I'm not sure why you think Henrique has a size advantage according to their profiles on the team rosters Henrique is all of 1 inch taller than Gagner and 4 pounds lighter.

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05-13-2013, 06:30 PM
  #343
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7th for Gudbranson?

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05-13-2013, 06:37 PM
  #344
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If we aren't paying very much, I'd definitely want in on Halak.

Dubnyk
Halak

Sounds very enticing for me. Guess it depends on price.

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05-13-2013, 06:42 PM
  #345
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Gagner + 2nd

for

Berglund + Halak


Gagner probably leads that club in points for the next few yrs..
EDM pair up Paajarvi-Berglund

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05-13-2013, 06:44 PM
  #346
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I think I would pull the trigger on a Gagner for Henrique + type of deal. Hall and Henrique were linemates in junior IIRC. Gagner is obviously the more proven player; however Henrique has the speed, and size over Gagner. A Hall, Yak and Henrique line would be a handful.
Henrique for Gagner would be a gift by the Devils. Henrique has actually scored over 50 points in an NHL season already.

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05-13-2013, 06:47 PM
  #347
nexttothemoon
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7th for Gudbranson?
I wouldn't do that.

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05-13-2013, 07:20 PM
  #348
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I wish I could find it but I beileve in his presser MacT mentioned that the analytics guys will tell you that on average for every 40 FO's you lose in your defensive zone one ends up in your net. A guy like Horton might take 200-300 own zone draws if he played as your number 2 center.
Interesting stat, but what does it really mean?
Say you take 1500 defensive zone faceoffs in a 82 game season, the difference between a team with a 55% vs a 45% faceoff winning percentage (an extreme difference) would be 150 more faceoff wins or about 4 goals. Is 4 goals over a 82 game season that big of a deal? So instead of focussing of faceoffs, we just need someone who can score 4 more goals?
I think faceoffs are important, but this stat almost seems to contradict MacT's point.

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05-13-2013, 07:21 PM
  #349
Seedling
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
I wanted Halak for the Oilers when the Habs traded him to the Blues... but do the Oilers want to spend 3.75 million in Cap on Halak? Personally I think he's worth the money and the cap hit (same as Khabi) but there's plenty of other holes to fill and players to sign. I honestly don't see the Oilers using assets to acquire Halak.

Personally though, I'd do it as I think he's a solid goalie and he's young enough (28) to easily get 5+ more good years of performance from him. I also probably overvalue the Goalie position compared to some who want to get by with adequate goaltending but why not make that area strong if you can do it at a cheap enough cost.

Dubnyk/Halak imo would be a very solid duo for years to come... one less area to worry about.
I too was on that bandwagon. I would think MacT would go after him. he stated goaltending was a concern in his presser at year end.

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05-13-2013, 08:17 PM
  #350
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Interesting stat, but what does it really mean?
Say you take 1500 defensive zone faceoffs in a 82 game season, the difference between a team with a 55% vs a 45% faceoff winning percentage (an extreme difference) would be 150 more faceoff wins or about 4 goals. Is 4 goals over a 82 game season that big of a deal? So instead of focussing of faceoffs, we just need someone who can score 4 more goals?
I think faceoffs are important, but this stat almost seems to contradict MacT's point.
He said it to refute that gagners FO ability is a critical factor. So it was to say they aren't too concerned with Sams ability there.

I read a study somewhere else(from Willis I think) that basically said for every 10% difference in two teams FO %, it only makes a difference of 1 win over a season. So a lot of proof that face offs aren't all that important over a season. You can see that in the Bos tor game tonight where Boston has won 80% of face offs yet trail 4-1.

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