HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Bernier trade in offseason?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-13-2013, 09:57 AM
  #76
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,092
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
the biggest issue DL faces now is what appears to be a glut of goalies hitting the market this summer. fortunately many of them are showing up with quite a bit of baggage included. off the top of my head the following guys will likely be moved or at least shopped.

Luongo / Schneider - still to be seen what happens in VAN, but Lou will likely be the one to go. at minimum VAN uses a buyout on him, which puts him on the open market.

R Miller - BUF starts the full rebuild, cuts salary and gains picks or prospects.

Bryz - PHI uses a buyout and re-rolls the dice in net. S Mason is the apparent heir, but that leaves a back up and possibly even the starter spot open. Mason still a huge question in net

J Hiller - one year left on his deal. Fasth as good if not better, J Gibson and Andersen in the wings. ANH starts shopping Hiller to save cap room and secure pick/prospect

R Emery - UFA after this year. had good numbers this past season in CHI and will possibly look for a #1 role someplace.

M Smith - UFA this summer. hard to say if he would stay in the desert or move on from a shaky situation and team that is mired in quicksand.

Halak - one year left on his deal and apparently in Hitch's doghouse. is being paid as the starter, but Elliott has passed him on the chart. not sure of STL's depth after these two, but it is possible Armstrong moves Halak and secures a different and cheaper backup to save cap and push Elliott

these are just the big names that are being mentioned as either UFA or possibly being shopped. take it down to the next level of current backups and teams #3G's (#1 G in AHL) and the summer goalie market is going to be stocked.

one major advantage though DL will have is the guys i listed are typically 30+ y.o. and as i said they bring baggage with them. they may not be future franchise goalies to build around, but they can be that 'bridge' player for a team.

i was optimistic of DL getting a 1st for JB in the draft, but right now i don't see it. there is to much supply on the market. i think NYI, BUF, NJ and PHI will be the most likely trade partners. all four of them are out of conference and either in full rebuild, or at the point they need to address their G late in the rebuild process.

the point of MTL now being a possible destination is also something i wouldn't discount. after Price's performance this spring it won't surprise me to see the Habs move away form him. they did the same thing after J Theodore didn't live up to expectations. the fact that JB is from Quebec makes this even more of a possibility. never, ever discount the whole French Canadian - Montreal connection.
I'm not singling you out here WhiskeyPete, just I have seen this message posted several times in this thread and it's not really correct.

There is a large volume of goalies available this off-season, however there is two different markets. One of for teams looking to win now, and it's those teams who will be going hard after the likes of Luongo, Miller, et al. That market has a glut of goalies.

The other market though is for teams looking to rebuild, or add to an ongoing rebuild, with a goalie for the long-term. Temas like New Jersey, maybe the Islanders, maybe Calgary, etc. That market is very limited, and Bernier might be the only name available for that market. You might toss Halak into the mix as well if he's available.

The market bernier is competing against is actually very small and should drive his price up.

kingsfan is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 10:01 AM
  #77
KingsFan7824
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Lindback fetched 2 2nds and a 3rd, so arguably same overall value as what Varlamnov fecthed anyways. And Bishop fetched a guy who is 23 and coming off a fairly successful rookie season, so hardly an average player.

I still expect Bernier to fetch a pair of 2nds and something else (pick/prospect).
The funny thing is that Lindback and Bishop were traded to the same team in less than a year. Unless the Lightning trade for Bernier too, I don't know if we can look at what Yzerman is doing in Tampa Bay and expound on it to a league wide level.

KingsFan7824 is online now  
Old
05-13-2013, 10:08 AM
  #78
Butch 19
King me
 
Butch 19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: L.A. suburb
Country: United States
Posts: 8,825
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc Gretzky View Post
Could this be massaged to work?

To NJ - Bernier + Muzzin

To LA - 1st (9th overall) + Hedberg
in bizarro world.

Butch 19 is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 10:11 AM
  #79
theMajor
Registered User
 
theMajor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CA
Country: United States
Posts: 889
vCash: 3066
Quote:
Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Dean's M.O. says otherwise.
Jack Johnson says hello...


Last edited by theMajor: 05-13-2013 at 10:20 AM.
theMajor is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 10:23 AM
  #80
Butch 19
King me
 
Butch 19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: L.A. suburb
Country: United States
Posts: 8,825
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post

Bryz - PHI uses a buyout and re-rolls the dice in net. S Mason is the apparent heir, but that leaves a back up and possibly even the starter spot open. Mason still a huge question in net
You know it's getting close to the offseason when the usual Philly "upgrade our goaltending" theories start popping up.

Butch 19 is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 10:51 AM
  #81
Knight of the Realm
Champs Again!
 
Knight of the Realm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Westeros
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 5,166
vCash: 500
Isles
Devils
Philly

seem to be the best chances.

Doubt we get much tho.

Knight of the Realm is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 11:30 AM
  #82
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,092
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
The funny thing is that Lindback and Bishop were traded to the same team in less than a year. Unless the Lightning trade for Bernier too, I don't know if we can look at what Yzerman is doing in Tampa Bay and expound on it to a league wide level.
It's not just Tampa Bay though. Colorado getting Varlamnov, that cost a 1st and a conditional pick (I think it was a 2nd). St. Louis paid Lars Eller (a very recent 1st round pick) and Ian Schultz for Halak. Columbus gave a 2nd and a 4th for Bobrovsky and a 4th. Andrew Raycroft fetched Tuukka Rask. Kari Lehtonen garnered former 1st round pick Ivan Vishnevisky and a 4th. Some of those guys were starters when they were traded, or were at one point starters, but age wise they were all similar to Bernier at the time of the trade.

And the market has only gone up in recent trades with Varlamnov, Lindback and Bishop. The fact DL reportedly (according to some posters here) is asking for a 1st and a 3rd/prospect is also based on something. He didn't just pull that out of thin air.

A pair of 2 2nds and another pick/tier two prospect isn't to far off IMO.

kingsfan is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 12:02 PM
  #83
KingsFan7824
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
It's not just Tampa Bay though. Colorado getting Varlamnov, that cost a 1st and a conditional pick (I think it was a 2nd). St. Louis paid Lars Eller (a very recent 1st round pick) and Ian Schultz for Halak. Columbus gave a 2nd and a 4th for Bobrovsky and a 4th. Andrew Raycroft fetched Tuukka Rask. Kari Lehtonen garnered former 1st round pick Ivan Vishnevisky and a 4th. Some of those guys were starters when they were traded, or were at one point starters, but age wise they were all similar to Bernier at the time of the trade.
Varlamov was traded before the 11/12 season for a 2012 1st round pick, because I'm guessing Colorado thought that with Varlamov they would be a better team in 11/12, thus pushing the pick further down the board.

Montreal traded Halak at the absolute height of his value after that playoff run he had in 2010.

Quote:
And the market has only gone up in recent trades with Varlamnov, Lindback and Bishop. The fact DL reportedly (according to some posters here) is asking for a 1st and a 3rd/prospect is also based on something. He didn't just pull that out of thin air.
If Lombardi is asking for a 1st+, that's also part of the reason Bernier is still a King. Which is ok, because the Kings shouldn't just trade him for the sake of it, and shouldn't be in any hurry to do so. This isn't Loktionov wanting out, or Gagne wondering what his future is. Bernier is potentially too important of a player for the Kings. He dresses every game.

Quote:
A pair of 2 2nds and another pick/tier two prospect isn't to far off IMO.
I would agree that that's more along the lines of what we would see. If anyone is thinking a 2013 1st round pick, a roster player, a good prospect, I'd say hold off on any of that talk.

The Kings are not dealing from a position of strength, since everyone knows Bernier wants to play, but hasn't had the chance to do it over a long period of time.

I'd say the earliest Bernier might get traded would be early July. Teams figure out who they can or do get in free agency, and only then does Bernier get dealt for actual assets. If he still gets dealt. I don't know if any GM's are worried about the Bernier train leaving the station too quickly.

KingsFan7824 is online now  
Old
05-13-2013, 12:28 PM
  #84
KopitarFAN
Reno Sucks!
 
KopitarFAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lost Wages, NV
Country: United States
Posts: 9,427
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post


I would agree that that's more along the lines of what we would see. If anyone is thinking a 2013 1st round pick, a roster player, a good prospect, I'd say hold off on any of that talk.

The Kings are not dealing from a position of strength, since everyone knows Bernier wants to play, but hasn't had the chance to do it over a long period of time.

I'd say the earliest Bernier might get traded would be early July. Teams figure out who they can or do get in free agency, and only then does Bernier get dealt for actual assets. If he still gets dealt. I don't know if any GM's are worried about the Bernier train leaving the station too quickly.
I'd be perfectly content with 2 2nd round picks as well, that would give them 6 picks in the top 103, including 3 2nd's, provides a lot of maneuverability to get into the first round if they so choose.


Last edited by KopitarFAN: 05-13-2013 at 01:07 PM.
KopitarFAN is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 12:50 PM
  #85
KingsFan7824
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
I'd be perfectly content with 2 2nd round picks as well, that would give them 6 picks in the top 103, including 3 2nd's, provides a lot of maneuverability to get into the first round if they so choice.
You mean in this draft? I would think the 2013 draft isn't going to be an option.

What is the reason for any team to rush to get Bernier? At the same time, the Kings don't seem to be in any rush to trade him.

KingsFan7824 is online now  
Old
05-13-2013, 01:13 PM
  #86
KopitarFAN
Reno Sucks!
 
KopitarFAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lost Wages, NV
Country: United States
Posts: 9,427
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
You mean in this draft? I would think the 2013 draft isn't going to be an option.

What is the reason for any team to rush to get Bernier? At the same time, the Kings don't seem to be in any rush to trade him.
The reason they would want to move him sooner is the threat of an offer-sheet, if someone offers him $3M (and I realize he has to sign it, but he is more likely to sign one in an attempt to get out of here than someone like Drew Doughty was), the Kings are stuck with one 2nd round pick and probably can't match because they can't afford to have $8.8M in goaltending.

KopitarFAN is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 01:17 PM
  #87
Whiskeypete
Registered User
 
Whiskeypete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: stuck in the middle
Country: United States
Posts: 2,375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
I'm not singling you out here WhiskeyPete, just I have seen this message posted several times in this thread and it's not really correct.

There is a large volume of goalies available this off-season, however there is two different markets. One of for teams looking to win now, and it's those teams who will be going hard after the likes of Luongo, Miller, et al. That market has a glut of goalies.

The other market though is for teams looking to rebuild, or add to an ongoing rebuild, with a goalie for the long-term. Temas like New Jersey, maybe the Islanders, maybe Calgary, etc. That market is very limited, and Bernier might be the only name available for that market. You might toss Halak into the mix as well if he's available.

The market bernier is competing against is actually very small and should drive his price up.
i hear you. i didn't a very good job of recognizing this. i made some mention of it when i said those guys are essentially 'bridge' kind of guys. to tired from staying up to watch the end of the sux-wings game.

yes there are two markets-two types to fill the spots, but there will be overlap between them. some GMs will inevitably go with the vet with a name, versus the young, unknown that is commanding a 1st round pick.

Whiskeypete is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 01:29 PM
  #88
KingsFan7824
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
The reason they would want to move him sooner is the threat of an offer-sheet, if someone offers him $3M (and I realize he has to sign it, but he is more likely to sign one in an attempt to get out of here than someone like Drew Doughty was), the Kings are stuck with one 2nd round pick and probably can't match because they can't afford to have $8.8M in goaltending.
I'm not sure a team is going to be throwing around an offer sheet for what so far has been a backup goalie. There are goalies that are UFA's. There are goalies that are more proven under contract.

KingsFan7824 is online now  
Old
05-13-2013, 01:39 PM
  #89
KopitarFAN
Reno Sucks!
 
KopitarFAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lost Wages, NV
Country: United States
Posts: 9,427
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
I'm not sure a team is going to be throwing around an offer sheet for what so far has been a backup goalie. There are goalies that are UFA's. There are goalies that are more proven under contract.
I doubt anybody is gonna want Roberto Luongo, except Florida, Ryan Miller is a different story though, should Buffalo decide to move him. As far as free agents, I just don't see it, some ok backups, but very few, if any starters.

KopitarFAN is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 01:58 PM
  #90
TwoForRoughing
Let's do it again!
 
TwoForRoughing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UCLA, Los Angeles
Posts: 2,244
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc Gretzky View Post
Could this be massaged to work?

To NJ - Bernier + Muzzin

To LA - 1st (9th overall) + Hedberg
Honestly, this looks like a fair proposal to me. The first one I've seen in a while, actually. Hedberg has another year left on his contract, and will hold the fort for Martin Jones. Muzzin is expendable imo.

TwoForRoughing is online now  
Old
05-13-2013, 02:00 PM
  #91
KingsFan7824
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
I doubt anybody is gonna want Roberto Luongo, except Florida, Ryan Miller is a different story though, should Buffalo decide to move him. As far as free agents, I just don't see it, some ok backups, but very few, if any starters.
Not many teams need a #1 goaltender. Bernier wants to start, or at least have a chance to start. Not many teams in that position either, especially if they have to make an offer sheet expensive enough to force the Kings hand.

If there was some need for the Kings to hurry up and trade Bernier, would Lombardi be apparently asking for a 1st+? If that's the asking price it can always come down very quickly if need be, but it doesn't sound as if it had as of the deadline.

KingsFan7824 is online now  
Old
05-13-2013, 02:50 PM
  #92
TROLLPOSO
Registered User
 
TROLLPOSO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 2,210
vCash: 500
Bernier and the Isles are a no brainer. Like peanut butter and chocolate.

However, Nino and Strome are definitely not on the table. If I was Snow I would offer the Isles 1st and the rights to Brendon Kichton (offensive defensemen who will probably re-enter draft if not signed soon).

TROLLPOSO is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 02:59 PM
  #93
Stupid Sexy Flanders
Registered User
 
Stupid Sexy Flanders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,409
vCash: 500
Montreal.

Stupid Sexy Flanders is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 03:07 PM
  #94
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 31,230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupid Sexy Flanders View Post
Montreal.
Makes zero sense whatsoever.

Ziggy Stardust is online now  
Old
05-13-2013, 03:31 PM
  #95
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,092
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
Varlamov was traded before the 11/12 season for a 2012 1st round pick, because I'm guessing Colorado thought that with Varlamov they would be a better team in 11/12, thus pushing the pick further down the board.

Montreal traded Halak at the absolute height of his value after that playoff run he had in 2010.



If Lombardi is asking for a 1st+, that's also part of the reason Bernier is still a King. Which is ok, because the Kings shouldn't just trade him for the sake of it, and shouldn't be in any hurry to do so. This isn't Loktionov wanting out, or Gagne wondering what his future is. Bernier is potentially too important of a player for the Kings. He dresses every game.



I would agree that that's more along the lines of what we would see. If anyone is thinking a 2013 1st round pick, a roster player, a good prospect, I'd say hold off on any of that talk.

The Kings are not dealing from a position of strength, since everyone knows Bernier wants to play, but hasn't had the chance to do it over a long period of time.

I'd say the earliest Bernier might get traded would be early July. Teams figure out who they can or do get in free agency, and only then does Bernier get dealt for actual assets. If he still gets dealt. I don't know if any GM's are worried about the Bernier train leaving the station too quickly.
I agree that Halak and Varlamnov should have higher value, theya re more proven at the time of their tardes. But you can't ignore that their deals help set a ceiling of sorts and DL will shoot to get as close to that ceiling as he can.

The asking price isn't necessarily why Bernier is still a King. For all we know, a deal is tentatively in place now, but due to the season we had DL may have refused to deal him. Quick was shaky to strat the season and it was a condensed season, so dealing Bernier wouldn't help the Kings as much as any asking price would have.

The Kings are dealing from a position of strength if two teams really want Bernier and are willing to bid against each other even slightly. And there is enough of a market to make that possible. For a team like NJ for example, if they elect to rebuild after next season (when Broduer is a UFA and could retire) then getting a young guy like Bernier makes way more sense than a random UFA goalie who is in his 30's. Bernier provides something no other goalie on the market offers; long-term stability. Now yes, he could flop, but only Bernier has the ability to be a starter for a team for a decade or more. Guys like Miller, Louongo, etc. are at best a five year solution, so unless you already have someone in the pipeling developing already to take over when they are done their contracts, it makes little sense to go that route.

Bernier will get dealt IMO just before or at the NHL Entry Draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
I'm not sure a team is going to be throwing around an offer sheet for what so far has been a backup goalie. There are goalies that are UFA's. There are goalies that are more proven under contract.
Actually an offer sheet is a really good idea for a GM wanting a potential starting goalie without giving up much assets.

This is the RFA compensation levels for 2011-2012: http://thehockeywriters.com/2011-12-...nsation-rules/

The cap for next season is the same as in 2011-2012, so odds are the compensation chart will be similar or exactly the same. If someone were to offer $3.1 million for Bernier, that'd cost them only a 2nd round pick. However for $3.1 million, unless Bernier completely flops, that's not a terrible price and could be a bargain if he takes the reins and runs with it. Additionally, DL would be hard pressed to match that offer sheet because now we'd have a $3.1 million backup, and we can't trade him for at least 12 months after matching the offer sheet. That bid could handcuff DL without handcuffing the other team, financially or compensation wise. And a lot of teams still have their own 2nd.

kingsfan is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 03:33 PM
  #96
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,092
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strometrooper View Post
Bernier and the Isles are a no brainer. Like peanut butter and chocolate.

However, Nino and Strome are definitely not on the table. If I was Snow I would offer the Isles 1st and the rights to Brendon Kichton (offensive defensemen who will probably re-enter draft if not signed soon).
Matt Martin, Travis Hamonic or Brian Strait would be nice in a deal, any of them moveable? Hamonic would be the preference.

kingsfan is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 03:43 PM
  #97
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,828
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
A 2nd round pick for Bernier isn't bad.

I think Dean will see if anyone bites at the draft and then just qualify him. Bernier can then pursue a contract with any team and the Kings just let him go for the RFA compensation.

Dean will probably sign a veteran backup goalie for next season.

Sydor25 is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 03:48 PM
  #98
TROLLPOSO
Registered User
 
TROLLPOSO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 2,210
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Matt Martin, Travis Hamonic or Brian Strait would be nice in a deal, any of them moveable? Hamonic would be the preference.
Strait would be the only one who would be considered in a deal. Hamonic, Martin, Cizikas, Tavares and Okposo are the untouchables on the Isles. I am not counting the prospects but these guys are the core vets.

TROLLPOSO is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 03:49 PM
  #99
Fat Elvis
Registered User
 
Fat Elvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Money Pit
Country: United States
Posts: 5,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Matt Martin, Travis Hamonic or Brian Strait would be nice in a deal, any of them moveable? Hamonic would be the preference.
Moveable? Doubt it. Most likely they'd move picks and prospects over young roster players. Their playoff series is giving the org some xcitement it hasn't seen in years.

Fat Elvis is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 03:59 PM
  #100
northernKing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
They had till 2014 so either 2013 or 2014...and NJ is hosting this year...so doubt they give up this years...or trade it.



Please don't post that anywhere else...unless you want people mad at you.
I think you underestimate Folignos goal scoring and overall potential.

northernKing is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:28 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.