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Old
05-13-2013, 11:53 AM
  #701
GoneFullHextall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Agreed. That's why the Flyers need to bite the bullet and draft a defenseman that can be groomed to be a number one defenseman. The thought that the Flyers can acquire some other team's number 2 or 3 guy and immediately insert them as the number one guy here won't ever work. It makes no sense what so ever to give up a ton of assets to acquire said defender and only have him bomb in the number one role here.

If a deal is made for Yandle, it's because Yandle will be used as a number 3 guy here. He'll be the ideal puck moving defenseman that's needed for the second pairing and run the power play. It still doesn't address what will happen with Timonen when he's gone and it's just another lateral move that still has the same hole in the lineup.

Honestly, the Flyers need to suck it up this year and draft a defenseman. Even if a guy like Shinkaruk is still on the board, you move down to draft a defenseman and acquire more assets along the way.
Thats not going to happen. We may very well draft a defenseman, but Snider is an impatient old man. He will do what ever it takes to get a top pairing guy and if he has to deal Couturier, Laughton, Cousins and the 11th overall he will. He doesnt care. Even its a mind boggling stupid move (see the Bryz fiasco) he will do it.
The Flyers are either going to overpay via trade or they are going to give someone like Streit 2 million more then hes worth per year. its going to happen IMO

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05-13-2013, 12:11 PM
  #702
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Yandle is really not as bad as people say he is, especially on a team that past Timonen really lacks an offensive threat on the blueline. People say Matt Carle is a comparable, but it's just inaccurate.

CONS: Sheltered this past year in Phoenix. Obviously OEL is a much better pure #1 defender, while Yandle is more like Mike Green. 60% of his starts were offensive zone starts and he didn't face a very high quality of competition. Not bad defensively by any means, but he is turnover prone and makes some plays that would definitely remind people of Carle. Isn't a true #1 defender as he doesn't provide the elite two-way play guys like Suter and Weber provide. Can be inconsistent, like how he had 15 of his points in only 6 games. 15 points in his other 42.

PROS: Excellent skater, excellent shot, excellent passer, excellent puck carrier. At one point this year he was the best defender at moving the puck into the offensive zone successfully. Guy has the ability to play big minutes at even strength and huge minutes on the powerplay. I'm sure he can do a little PK too but don't be expecting Ryan Suter. Yandle will likely be able to score 10+ goals every year and will be able to put up anywhere from 40 to 60 points. Really good at knowing when to pinch, but like all pinching defenders might get caught up ice.

So really, we should know we aren't getting Ryan Suter or any player like him. We can, however, get one of the best offensive defenders in the league. His caphit is $5.25 which is comparable to Wideman, Byfuglien, Carle, Wisniewski and Martin. I'd much much rather have Yandle than any of them.

The cost of acquiring him is likely the biggest issue I see facing us. I wouldn't do it for Couturier+ especially if the + was something more valuable. I'd do it for Laughton+ but not if the + was the 11th overall... etc. Gonna be hard to find a price any of us are happy with. I hope they go after Rundblad instead and keep the 11th overall. The defense for 2013-14 is really not as big of an issue as people are making it out to be though, IMO.

Coburn - Timonen
Gustafsson - Schenn
Grossmann - Meszaros

Really not that bad, if they stay healthy/find their game again/continue to develop.
If this was NHL13, we'd have a great defense! /sarcasm.

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05-13-2013, 12:53 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Why on earth would the Blues do that? They don't need the cap space--not really, anyway. And they gave up a first round pick + for him.

He's the idea partner for Pietrangelo. His cap hit is a little high, but I can't see that organization ponying up for a buyout when they face the prospect of major outlays for Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, etc.
When the Blues went and got JBo, my first thought was that he's insurance so that when either Pieterangelo or Shattenkirk sign with another organization, that they're covered with their top pair.
No doubt the Blues expect to lose one of them and will take the compensation in return from the signing team. There is no sensible reason why they would have three defensemen pulling down $18M collectively.

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05-13-2013, 01:19 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
Yandle is really not as bad as people say he is, especially on a team that past Timonen really lacks an offensive threat on the blueline. People say Matt Carle is a comparable, but it's just inaccurate.

CONS: Sheltered this past year in Phoenix. Obviously OEL is a much better pure #1 defender, while Yandle is more like Mike Green. 60% of his starts were offensive zone starts and he didn't face a very high quality of competition. Not bad defensively by any means, but he is turnover prone and makes some plays that would definitely remind people of Carle. Isn't a true #1 defender as he doesn't provide the elite two-way play guys like Suter and Weber provide. Can be inconsistent, like how he had 15 of his points in only 6 games. 15 points in his other 42.

PROS: Excellent skater, excellent shot, excellent passer, excellent puck carrier. At one point this year he was the best defender at moving the puck into the offensive zone successfully. Guy has the ability to play big minutes at even strength and huge minutes on the powerplay. I'm sure he can do a little PK too but don't be expecting Ryan Suter. Yandle will likely be able to score 10+ goals every year and will be able to put up anywhere from 40 to 60 points. Really good at knowing when to pinch, but like all pinching defenders might get caught up ice.

So really, we should know we aren't getting Ryan Suter or any player like him. We can, however, get one of the best offensive defenders in the league. His caphit is $5.25 which is comparable to Wideman, Byfuglien, Carle, Wisniewski and Martin. I'd much much rather have Yandle than any of them.

The cost of acquiring him is likely the biggest issue I see facing us. I wouldn't do it for Couturier+ especially if the + was something more valuable. I'd do it for Laughton+ but not if the + was the 11th overall... etc. Gonna be hard to find a price any of us are happy with. I hope they go after Rundblad instead and keep the 11th overall. The defense for 2013-14 is really not as big of an issue as people are making it out to be though, IMO.

Coburn - Timonen
Gustafsson - Schenn
Grossmann - Meszaros

Really not that bad, if they stay healthy/find their game again/continue to develop.
If this was NHL13, we'd have a great defense! /sarcasm.
Really good post.

I don't know what it is about him but I believe Yandle could be able to develop into a two-way guy, especially in Lavy's system where he doesn't play with four other defenders on the ice. I just think his hockey IQ is off the charts and could very well help him become great at D, too.
That's probably why I would also take him over Edler.

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05-13-2013, 02:34 PM
  #705
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Anaheim's season over?? Queue the rumors of Ryan to the Flyers.

On that note though, Anaheim fans seem to want to upgrade their defense. Coburn for Ryan? Of course Anaheim fans would want more than that though. I am thinking Homer brings in a top line winger for Giroux, and Ryan fits that bill.

Also people saying wait until he hits UFA. He hits it in 2 more years, and he is in his offensive peak right now along with Giroux. If Flyers are trying to win now, right now would be the time to do the deal.

Also it seems most of them are okay with the idea of moving Sbisa. I wonder if Homer would try to get him back if he hit the market? I wouldn't mind him coming back here.

Coburn+Read+2rd rounder

for

Ryan+Sbisa.


Last edited by Prongo: 05-13-2013 at 02:40 PM.
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05-13-2013, 02:34 PM
  #706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
Yandle is really not as bad as people say he is, especially on a team that past Timonen really lacks an offensive threat on the blueline. People say Matt Carle is a comparable, but it's just inaccurate.

CONS: Sheltered this past year in Phoenix. Obviously OEL is a much better pure #1 defender, while Yandle is more like Mike Green. 60% of his starts were offensive zone starts and he didn't face a very high quality of competition. Not bad defensively by any means, but he is turnover prone and makes some plays that would definitely remind people of Carle. Isn't a true #1 defender as he doesn't provide the elite two-way play guys like Suter and Weber provide. Can be inconsistent, like how he had 15 of his points in only 6 games. 15 points in his other 42.

PROS: Excellent skater, excellent shot, excellent passer, excellent puck carrier. At one point this year he was the best defender at moving the puck into the offensive zone successfully. Guy has the ability to play big minutes at even strength and huge minutes on the powerplay. I'm sure he can do a little PK too but don't be expecting Ryan Suter. Yandle will likely be able to score 10+ goals every year and will be able to put up anywhere from 40 to 60 points. Really good at knowing when to pinch, but like all pinching defenders might get caught up ice.

So really, we should know we aren't getting Ryan Suter or any player like him. We can, however, get one of the best offensive defenders in the league. His caphit is $5.25 which is comparable to Wideman, Byfuglien, Carle, Wisniewski and Martin. I'd much much rather have Yandle than any of them.

The cost of acquiring him is likely the biggest issue I see facing us. I wouldn't do it for Couturier+ especially if the + was something more valuable. I'd do it for Laughton+ but not if the + was the 11th overall... etc. Gonna be hard to find a price any of us are happy with. I hope they go after Rundblad instead and keep the 11th overall. The defense for 2013-14 is really not as big of an issue as people are making it out to be though, IMO.

Coburn - Timonen
Gustafsson - Schenn
Grossmann - Meszaros

Really not that bad, if they stay healthy/find their game again/continue to develop.
If this was NHL13, we'd have a great defense! /sarcasm.
We will agree to disagree. I have watched him play (dont know if you have but throwing this out there) and the guy plays VERY similar in a sense to Carle. One thing he does have that Carle doesn't is a shot that hits the net. That being said though, there is a reason why he is being sheltered. He averages just about 20 minutes a game because of his deficiency on the defense end. They don't shelter him because they want him rested, it's just that there are better "defenders" who defend than he is. I can throw the stats out there, but most here don't care about that sort of stuff so I wont.

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05-13-2013, 02:50 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Coburn+Read+2rd rounder

for

Ryan+Sbisa.
Anaheim says no.

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05-13-2013, 02:51 PM
  #708
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Originally Posted by Rolex View Post
When the Blues went and got JBo, my first thought was that he's insurance so that when either Pieterangelo or Shattenkirk sign with another organization, that they're covered with their top pair.
No doubt the Blues expect to lose one of them and will take the compensation in return from the signing team. There is no sensible reason why they would have three defensemen pulling down $18M collectively.
The blues are in an interesting situation next year. They do have the money to have all 3 guys but I think they would listen to a trade for Shattenkirk if it involved a good forward. I know fans love Simmonds, but he is the best trading chip the Flyers have. Unlike Couturier, Read, or B. Schenn, nothing of consequence would have to be added in any deal involving Wayne. It would suck to lose him, but I think it would hurt the team more to trade multiple high end assets, like Couturier + 1st, instead of just him. Plus the UFA crop for rights wings isn't too bad with Clarkson, Iginla and Horton there. Simmonds for Shattenkirk is a deal I would do for the Flyers.

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05-13-2013, 02:58 PM
  #709
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Really not in love with the idea of losing Simmonds. Team struggles 5on5 and losing Simmonds takes a big piece out of the one opponent killer they actually had: A redic powerplay.

Shattenkirk is legit though. Hmm.

The draft needs to happen. Imagine if an elite forward falls like Nichushkin-- then shedding one for a good trade becomes much more of a soft blow.

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05-13-2013, 03:00 PM
  #710
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http://www.101sports.com/podcasts/ke...ing-5-13-13-2/

Kelly Chase seems to think some changes are coming for the Blues. He is the play by play for them.

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05-13-2013, 03:23 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
http://www.101sports.com/podcasts/ke...ing-5-13-13-2/

Kelly Chase seems to think some changes are coming for the Blues. He is the play by play for them.
Sounds like the Blues want some guys that can/have produced in the POs. The Flyers have a winger that has 68 PO games and scored 16 goals along with 22 assists. Do you think that they'd be interested?

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05-13-2013, 03:26 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
http://www.101sports.com/podcasts/ke...ing-5-13-13-2/

Kelly Chase seems to think some changes are coming for the Blues. He is the play by play for them.
Rights to Shattenkirk for Bryz.

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05-13-2013, 03:53 PM
  #713
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Sounds like the Blues want some guys that can/have produced in the POs. The Flyers have a winger that has 68 PO games and scored 16 goals along with 22 assists. Do you think that they'd be interested?
Who are you talking about? Talbot??

Coburn/Hartnell/Read/Couts are our trade chips probably. If I am calling St Louis, you first have to ask about Piety. Try to blow them away with an offer. Seems like not too many people are happy with their first round exit. I really like Shatty too though. Of course Shatty would be the more realistic one to be moved if they do move any defenseman.

I would look to see if they would take Briere also. I know I know about his situation, but he could be the leader that team needs. They are relatively young now up front with Mcdonald leaving. He would also give them a good play making center which they need.

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05-13-2013, 04:04 PM
  #714
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We will agree to disagree. I have watched him play (dont know if you have but throwing this out there) and the guy plays VERY similar in a sense to Carle. One thing he does have that Carle doesn't is a shot that hits the net. That being said though, there is a reason why he is being sheltered. He averages just about 20 minutes a game because of his deficiency on the defense end. They don't shelter him because they want him rested, it's just that there are better "defenders" who defend than he is. I can throw the stats out there, but most here don't care about that sort of stuff so I wont.
I'm from the West Coast so I see a lot of the western teams, seen a lot of Yandle and been a fan of him since his first few seasons. Seen him live against the Canucks a few times, both of which Yandle was the best player on the ice.

Carle vs. Yandle is comparable only in style. Difference is Yandle is better at everything on offense, most noticeably his shot. Yandle will be getting 200 shots a year, give or take a few shots here or there. Dave Tippett is a guy who loves his matchups and loves the strategic play instead of just rolling the lines and defensive pairings, so of course their best offensive player (Yandle) is going to be used much like the Sedins are used in Vancouver - pure offense. Especially when they have a stacked defense with one of the best two-way guys in the league OEL and sturdy-ish defensive players like Klesla, Michalek, Morris, etc. On a team that needed scoring badly, it's no wonder they gave Yandle so much offensive zone time. They relied on him to score while the best forwards on the team were Radim Vrbata, Shane Doan and Mikael Boedker compared to what he would have to work with on Philly in Claude Giroux and Jakub Voracek.

Some stats from 5v5: in 2011-12 Yandle had a 55% offensive zone start time but faced more a middle of the pack quality of competition. This could be attributed to the more limited presence that OEL had last season. Yandle in both seasons has maintained a positive Corsi. In 2010-11 Yandle only had a 51% offensive zone start time with even tougher quality of competition yet still had a positive Corsi - only Yandle, OEL, Schlemko and Roszival had positive Corsi's throughout that season. Morris, Yandle's partner throughout most of his tenure in Phoenix, has always had a negative Corsi.

If anything, Yandle's minutes, matchups and usage can be attributed to the arrival of OEL. OEL will likely be a top-10 defender in the league at both ends of the ice within the near future. Furthermore, that might be a good reason why Phoenix might move Yandl, however he is their best offensive player by far since Ray Whitney left. For a team needing offense, you'd think they would keep him.

For the cost it would acquire him, I definitely agree that they should look elsewhere. I'm not disagreeing that Yandle has his flaws 'cause he does, but he's clearly being underrated on this board.

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05-13-2013, 04:11 PM
  #715
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Anaheim's season over?? Queue the rumors of Ryan to the Flyers.

On that note though, Anaheim fans seem to want to upgrade their defense. Coburn for Ryan? Of course Anaheim fans would want more than that though. I am thinking Homer brings in a top line winger for Giroux, and Ryan fits that bill.

Also people saying wait until he hits UFA. He hits it in 2 more years, and he is in his offensive peak right now along with Giroux. If Flyers are trying to win now, right now would be the time to do the deal.

Also it seems most of them are okay with the idea of moving Sbisa. I wonder if Homer would try to get him back if he hit the market? I wouldn't mind him coming back here.

Coburn+Read+2rd rounder

for

Ryan+Sbisa.
We have a top-line winger for Giroux. He's wearing #93.
Listen, I like Ryan and I'd love him on the Flyers but this team has bigger problems than finding players to play with Giroux. Also we are not trying to win now, we'll try to win in 2-3 years.
That offer btw is atricious, the Ducks probably wouldn't give you Ryan alone for that if you won't change that 2nd rounder to a first.

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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
We will agree to disagree. I have watched him play (dont know if you have but throwing this out there) and the guy plays VERY similar in a sense to Carle. One thing he does have that Carle doesn't is a shot that hits the net. That being said though, there is a reason why he is being sheltered. He averages just about 20 minutes a game because of his deficiency on the defense end. They don't shelter him because they want him rested, it's just that there are better "defenders" who defend than he is. I can throw the stats out there, but most here don't care about that sort of stuff so I wont.
I know I'll get some laughs for this on here but playing like Carle isn't really a bad thing. Yes he had has downsides but what he brought to this team was huge and we saw it last season. It's becoming ridiculous how much crap Carle still gets on here. He's been a really good player for us.


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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
The blues are in an interesting situation next year. They do have the money to have all 3 guys but I think they would listen to a trade for Shattenkirk if it involved a good forward. I know fans love Simmonds, but he is the best trading chip the Flyers have. Unlike Couturier, Read, or B. Schenn, nothing of consequence would have to be added in any deal involving Wayne. It would suck to lose him, but I think it would hurt the team more to trade multiple high end assets, like Couturier + 1st, instead of just him. Plus the UFA crop for rights wings isn't too bad with Clarkson, Iginla and Horton there. Simmonds for Shattenkirk is a deal I would do for the Flyers.

I'm really not sure the Blues need Simmonds. They have like 4 or 5 guys just like him. What they need is a center.

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05-13-2013, 04:23 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Anaheim's season over?? Queue the rumors of Ryan to the Flyers.

On that note though, Anaheim fans seem to want to upgrade their defense. Coburn for Ryan? Of course Anaheim fans would want more than that though. I am thinking Homer brings in a top line winger for Giroux, and Ryan fits that bill.

Also people saying wait until he hits UFA. He hits it in 2 more years, and he is in his offensive peak right now along with Giroux. If Flyers are trying to win now, right now would be the time to do the deal.

Also it seems most of them are okay with the idea of moving Sbisa. I wonder if Homer would try to get him back if he hit the market? I wouldn't mind him coming back here.

Coburn+Read+2rd rounder

for

Ryan+Sbisa.
I'd take that and run but I doubt the Ducks would take it

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05-13-2013, 04:41 PM
  #717
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Wonder if the ducks would go for a deal centered around sbisa for Coburn??

It would make us younger on the back end. Also we all know the Flyers like Sbisa since we drafted him. He is still developing and fits right into our team in terms of age and development. Coburn would help solidify a top 4 defense for Anaheim.

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05-13-2013, 06:10 PM
  #718
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Wonder if the ducks would go for a deal centered around sbisa for Coburn??

It would make us younger on the back end. Also we all know the Flyers like Sbisa since we drafted him. He is still developing and fits right into our team in terms of age and development. Coburn would help solidify a top 4 defense for Anaheim.
Wouldn't make sense for Anaheim. Sbisa is already a good player for them and is arguably already a top 4. Plus he's still young and will get better. He may become a more effective player than Coburn for them as soon as next year. Why would they want to get older for what is, for all intents and purposes, a lateral move at best at the moment?

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05-13-2013, 06:13 PM
  #719
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Wouldn't make sense for Anaheim. Sbisa is already a good player for them and is arguably already a top 4. Plus he's still young and will get better. He may become a more effective player than Coburn for them as soon as next year. Why would they want to get older for what is, for all intents and purposes, a lateral move at best at the moment?
Coburn right now is the better defenseman out of the two. Sbisa still is maturing and going threw growing pains as a 23 year old defender in the NHL. Coburn provides the solid #3 that comes with playoff experience. You know exactly what you are getting from Coburn throughout the year.

Sbisa might become better, but Anaheim has a great group of players and might look to upgrade the defense for a more sure thing, which is exactly what Coburn would be.

The few duck fans that have responded actually have been receptive to the deal.

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05-13-2013, 06:35 PM
  #720
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Coburn right now is the better defenseman out of the two. Sbisa still is maturing and going threw growing pains as a 23 year old defender in the NHL. Coburn provides the solid #3 that comes with playoff experience. You know exactly what you are getting from Coburn throughout the year.

Sbisa might become better, but Anaheim has a great group of players and might look to upgrade the defense for a more sure thing, which is exactly what Coburn would be.

The few duck fans that have responded actually have been receptive to the deal.
Isn't the whole point of moving Coburn the fact that we don't know which Coburn is going to show up day in and day out?

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05-13-2013, 06:41 PM
  #721
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Isn't the whole point of moving Coburn the fact that we don't know which Coburn is going to show up day in and day out?
No, the reason I will be okay with moving Coburn is getting a younger, cheaper, good upside puck moving defenseman back. A player exactly like Sbisa. The Flyers are very young, and getting Sbisa will allow the back end to grow together with the forwards. Coburn has been here for what 8 years(?), I believe we should start looking to retool the defense somewhat.

Playoff Coburn is just a myth. He raises his game like many other players do for the playoffs. We never see that player in the regular season, which is why many Flyers fans are willing to deal him. If he showed up like he did in the playoffs every night, I wouldn't look to trade him at all. During the season you know exactly what type of play and point production you are going to get from him though.

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05-13-2013, 07:06 PM
  #722
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I'd be okay with dealing Coburn for someone younger. The team is still a couple years away from being realistic contenders, unless Homer has some magic stashed away. We've seen enough of Coburn to know what we have.

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05-13-2013, 07:56 PM
  #723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
I know I'll get some laughs for this on here but playing like Carle isn't really a bad thing. Yes he had has downsides but what he brought to this team was huge and we saw it last season. It's becoming ridiculous how much crap Carle still gets on here. He's been a really good player for us.
I'll second that point, with a qualifier. My two big knocks against Carle were his frequent give-aways and his fluttering wristers from the point. Carle had good positioning, was a good skater, blocked shots and even hit a bit. If Yandle were Carle with a hard, accurate shot, I could live with that.

Of course, the price Phoenix would want will be prohibitive.

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05-13-2013, 07:58 PM
  #724
jabba2
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Coburn paired with Timmonen is a dam good #2. Without Kimmo, he is mediocre. Frustrating.

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05-13-2013, 08:31 PM
  #725
Curufinwe
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I can't see Coburn being moved until Mezaros and Grossmann show they are healthy.

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