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Adam Larsson for Jordan Eberle

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Old
05-13-2013, 01:47 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
why the hell would you base a condition on minutes played? thats nonsense. I don't even think you can do that anyways.
Because its the only real way to tell if a guy is a first pair defender. I could use points, but what if his offense never comes, but he is still an elite shut down, top pairing guy like Marc Staal? Then points don't even begin to show how valuable he is. Minutes played, is typically the best measurable way to show the effectiveness of a defenseman

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05-13-2013, 03:50 PM
  #152
Randy BoBandy
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Larsson is seems to be pretty overrated. Edmonton could get way more fore Eberle. Larsson has yet to play a full season. Devils over valuing their players as usual

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05-13-2013, 03:54 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy BoBandy View Post
Larsson is seems to be pretty overrated. Edmonton could get way more fore Eberle. Larsson has yet to play a full season. Devils over valuing their players as usual

what the hell are you talking about? hes played 102 NHL Games. and he is a top 4 DMan.

how many times did you watch him this year? be honest.

tell me what "way more" you think you can get for Eberle. I'd love to hear.

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05-13-2013, 04:05 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
For the record, I don't believe Eberle has ever been healthy scratched. You guys are being pretty sensitive about the wording of this. Fact is, that if Larsson was as good as you are saying he is, he would not have been scratched at all. Its not horrid to suggest that for a first line winger, we want a guy who is more proven. Upside is great, the fact that he should be an all star someday is great, but we are trading an all star for potential. What if Larsson never develops into what he should? The risk is all ours here. Eberle for Larsson and a conditional 2nd round pick. I would suggest the conditional somehow linked to Larsson's minutes played, as points isn't a good gauge. Something like, if Larsson doesn't average 25+ minutes a game after two more seasons (making it his third season), then the Oil get a 2nd rounder the following year. It`s a bit different, but I think it should take the risks into consideration.
Any legit organisation is going to take their sweet time with a gem like Larsson, especially when they already have several veterans in their lineup. Unlike the Oilers, were finishing dead last seems like a reward, teams who have veterans under contract won't piss on them just to let a 19 year old rookie take over.

If I take someone like MDZ, who was sent down in the minors to polish his game, gained big time from that decision and is now a more solid player then he once was when he first cracked the NHL. It's not a knock on anyone when you're told, as a player, to take a back seat for a couple of games or a entire season.

Fans see that as bad sign but in reality, it's quite the contrary. If he was playing in his 5th full season, I might understand but the kid is 20 years of age and like every other rookie, there's growing pains to learn along the way.

I don't know any blueliner who cracked the league at 18 years of age and just flat out dominated since day #1. Drew Doughty, the "scoring machine", who's probably one of the best blueliners in the league had a pretty sub par year but I'm 200% certain that the Kings wouldn't move him unless something real special was thrown their way since he's just 23 years of age and the sky's the limit for him.

Larsson isn't the same type of player but to judge anyone when they've only played 100 games at the pro level and who's only 20 years of age is nothing short of premature when trying to evaluate his skills and his future.

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05-13-2013, 04:16 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Randy BoBandy View Post
Larsson is seems to be pretty overrated. Edmonton could get way more fore Eberle. Larsson has yet to play a full season. Devils over valuing their players as usual
Is this along the lines of what the Oilers can get for Hemsky? I forget what they handsomely fetched again.

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05-13-2013, 04:22 PM
  #156
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The "Nudge" with 4 goals in 40 games. His production went south this year, that must make him a 3rd line center at best with those kind of stats for a 20 year old... when going with the same "logic" that's being thrown around the past couple of pages.

We'll trade you our "healthy scratched" Larsson for your "3rd line" center in RNH. We can add a extra 5th round pick to even things out.

What da ya say?

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05-13-2013, 05:00 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
For the record, I don't believe Eberle has ever been healthy scratched. You guys are being pretty sensitive about the wording of this. Fact is, that if Larsson was as good as you are saying he is, he would not have been scratched at all. Its not horrid to suggest that for a first line winger, we want a guy who is more proven. Upside is great, the fact that he should be an all star someday is great, but we are trading an all star for potential. What if Larsson never develops into what he should? The risk is all ours here. Eberle for Larsson and a conditional 2nd round pick. I would suggest the conditional somehow linked to Larsson's minutes played, as points isn't a good gauge. Something like, if Larsson doesn't average 25+ minutes a game after two more seasons (making it his third season), then the Oil get a 2nd rounder the following year. It`s a bit different, but I think it should take the risks into consideration.
That's one of the most absurd conditions I've ever heard of. Minute average over the course of 2 seasons for a draft pick 4 drafts from now?

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05-13-2013, 05:02 PM
  #158
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I understand the Oilers not wanting to trade Eberle for Larsson, but to refer to Larsson as a "healthy scratch" and call him overrated is just ridiculous.

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05-13-2013, 05:03 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
That's one of the most absurd conditions I've ever heard of. Minute average over the course of 2 seasons for a draft pick 4 drafts from now?
Knowing the Oilers and their love for high draft picks, they'd probably play Larsson a couple of seconds under the 25 minute barrier just to add a extra pick, regardless if it's waranted or not.

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05-13-2013, 05:04 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Because its the only real way to tell if a guy is a first pair defender. I could use points, but what if his offense never comes, but he is still an elite shut down, top pairing guy like Marc Staal? Then points don't even begin to show how valuable he is. Minutes played, is typically the best measurable way to show the effectiveness of a defenseman
Dennis Wideman plays 25 minutes a game.

Zdeno Chara, Ryan McDonagh, and Duncan Keith do NOT play 25 minutes a game.

So yeah, that's definitely a good way to judge.

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05-13-2013, 08:12 PM
  #161
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You've got a lot of players there that are getting long in the tooth. Elias is still playing great, but is 37. Zubrus will be 35 in a month. Sullivan almost 39 and Poni 33. Zidlicky 36. I doubt you guys will bring them all back.

Of the players you still have under contract, Volchenkov is 31, Tallinder is 34 and Salvador is 37. Greene will turn 31 in October. Kovy is 30, Carter will be 30 in August. And your goalies are 41 and 40.

That's not to say that all of those players will struggle due to age. Kovy is obviously still a great player and Greene is solid. Carter plays his role well. Brodeur is still one of the better goalies in the league. But let's face it, your roster is pretty old. A lot of those players will need to be replaced in the next 2-3 years, if not sooner.
while true, sullivan and poni were both role players that were healthy scratched at times this year, and neither is expected to be back next season. volch and tally were both also healthy scratches this year, and most of us are hoping they're gone by next season as well one way or another. so while yes, the team is getting older, only elias, zubrus, and the goalies are really impact players as far as the old guys go. kovy and greene still have good years ahead of them and everyone else is pretty easily replaceable from within.

obviously the devils are lacking some top end offensive skill in their pipeline, and will be in trouble once elias retires, but that's all the more reason to hold on to larsson, who is already our 2nd best defenseman in my estimation, to ensure that at least our defense will be solid. if the devils are seeking to add a young forward (and they should be), a package around someone like merrill or gelinas for someone less established than an eberle would be the way to go about it, imo. not trading away the best of our young defensemen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy BoBandy View Post
Larsson is seems to be pretty overrated. Edmonton could get way more fore Eberle. Larsson has yet to play a full season. Devils over valuing their players as usual
seeing as there was half a season missing due to the lockout this year, the only chance he had to play a full season was last year, and the only reason he didn't is because he got injured. actually what the **** are you even talking about?

knocking a 20 year old because they haven't played a full season is actually just one of the dumbest things i've ever heard on this board, bravo. most guys haven't even hit the ahl by larsson's age.

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05-13-2013, 08:22 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
Any legit organisation is going to take their sweet time with a gem like Larsson, especially when they already have several veterans in their lineup. Unlike the Oilers, were finishing dead last seems like a reward, teams who have veterans under contract won't piss on them just to let a 19 year old rookie take over.
I stopped reading right there. You should feel embarassed. Can you name me a single player who the Oilers "pissed on" to make room for a 19 year old? I'll wait patiently while you search.

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05-13-2013, 08:24 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
Dennis Wideman plays 25 minutes a game.

Zdeno Chara, Ryan McDonagh, and Duncan Keith do NOT play 25 minutes a game.

So yeah, that's definitely a good way to judge.
Name me a better way that can be judged via stats then smart guy. For what its worth, Wideman is a number one in Calgary, even if he wouldn`t be on most teams.

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05-13-2013, 08:26 PM
  #164
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That's one of the most absurd conditions I've ever heard of. Minute average over the course of 2 seasons for a draft pick 4 drafts from now?
Over one season. Minute per game average in either of the two seasons following next year, for a pick the year following the final year. You`d think that it would favor the Devils too, considering Larsson should be playing 25 minutes as a 4th year d-man if he`s going to be as good as you all are making him out to be.

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05-13-2013, 08:27 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
The "Nudge" with 4 goals in 40 games. His production went south this year, that must make him a 3rd line center at best with those kind of stats for a 20 year old... when going with the same "logic" that's being thrown around the past couple of pages.

We'll trade you our "healthy scratched" Larsson for your "3rd line" center in RNH. We can add a extra 5th round pick to even things out.

What da ya say?
Nuge was playing with a shoulder injury. Larsson was healthy. Big difference there.

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05-13-2013, 08:48 PM
  #166
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I love this place

if you aren't a superstar by age 21 you are a bust.

Larsson was MILES ahead defensively this past year then he was as a rookie. and hes played 100 games. DMen take longer to develop.

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05-13-2013, 08:49 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Nuge was playing with a shoulder injury. Larsson was healthy. Big difference there.
how do you know he was healthy? maybe he wasn't healthy. maybe he had a nagging injury and thats why he was scratched?

you never know, especially with the Devils.

injuries are not an excuse, sorry.

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05-13-2013, 10:44 PM
  #168
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In NJ, experience gets the benefit of the doubt over "potential."

Lou's on record stating that he hates the word and concept of potential - you are what you are. And his standard is pretty damn high when it comes to young players cracking the lineup. That's why Larsson's minutes are not worth talking about.

The Oilers have few impact vets - hence, their kids get to play and ride out the tough stretches. Not the same situation as NJ.

What is so difficult to understand about that?

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05-13-2013, 11:01 PM
  #169
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Literally any trade thread turns into a pissing match with EDM fans

Team 1: "we'll trade you XXXX player on D for one of the big 4"

Oiler fans: " We'll gladly keep our winger over that overrated D-man"

Team 1: "Well your D still blows"

Oilers Fans: "We got Justin Schultz and Ladislav Smid man, we're set for the future and even Klefbom"

Team 1: "Player XXXX will be better for your D in the future though"

Oilers fans: "Rah rah rah long live Taylor Hall rah rah rah Justin Schultz is the real deal rah rah rah we will be in the playoffs next year "

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05-13-2013, 11:47 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
how do you know he was healthy? maybe he wasn't healthy. maybe he had a nagging injury and thats why he was scratched?

you never know, especially with the Devils.

injuries are not an excuse, sorry.
Oh I agree he has been brutal ever since Subban hit . Maybe career killer.

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05-13-2013, 11:54 PM
  #171
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This entire thread is irrelevant.

NJ doesn't have many A level kids and Larsson is one of them.

And Edmonton needs a LHD.

?-Schultz
Smid-Petry
Schultz-Fistric?

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05-13-2013, 11:57 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
Literally any trade thread turns into a pissing match with EDM fans

Team 1: "we'll trade you XXXX player on D for one of the big 4"

Oiler fans: " We'll gladly keep our winger over that overrated D-man"

Team 1: "Well your D still blows"

Oilers Fans: "We got Justin Schultz and Ladislav Smid man, we're set for the future and even Klefbom"

Team 1: "Player XXXX will be better for your D in the future though"

Oilers fans: "Rah rah rah long live Taylor Hall rah rah rah Justin Schultz is the real deal rah rah rah we will be in the playoffs next year "
It's because almost every single one of the Big 4 are underrated by non-Oiler fans (Eberle is the one exception). Many fans fail to realize how young these kids are and are trading as if they're established players.
When Oiler fans bring up stats and individual accomplishments, non-Oiler fans cite team accomplishments to make it seem like those players suck.

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05-14-2013, 12:27 AM
  #173
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Oh I agree he has been brutal ever since Subban hit . Maybe career killer.
A bit of an exaggeration.

RNH has been more injury prone and his game has taken a bigger hit since his first shoulder injury that came as a result of not being NHL ready and being rushed into a 1st line center role as a 170 pound 18 year old.

That shoulder issue will last his whole career, I guarantee it.

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05-14-2013, 01:04 AM
  #174
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i don't know enough about Larsson to really say yay or nay. From anyone has seen (or what pundits say) has he shown enough to say he is a can't miss, guarenteed, #1D? is he another OEL? Hedman? if he was, there wouldn't be any talk of moving him. Probably more like a Mattius Ohlund?

so Ohlund-like for Eberle.... i wanna say i need more then that to move Ebs.

Gagner for Larsson? Gagner + prospect D (Marincin)

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05-14-2013, 02:53 AM
  #175
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A bit of an exaggeration.

RNH has been more injury prone and his game has taken a bigger hit since his first shoulder injury that came as a result of not being NHL ready and being rushed into a 1st line center role as a 170 pound 18 year old.

That shoulder issue will last his whole career, I guarantee it.
The only person who would know whether or not that is true would be the surgeon operating on that shoulder in Cleveland. So... it's nice to know you're a successful surgeon, congratulations on that.

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