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The Greatest Players of the 1890's

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09-27-2006, 11:16 PM
  #1
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The Greatest Players of the 1890's

I would like to show you posters the stats that I have compiled through old newspapers. The goals are not official as some games never showed the goal scorers but it gives a good indication of who the best players were. I have found that Hall of Fame members are the only men that are being remembered and in some cases they were far from being the best players. Of this group only 3 are in the Hockey Hall of Fame #6 Drinkwater, #8 Smith, and #15 Trihey. The Montreal Victorias were the greatest hockey team of the 1890's and argument can be used that they were the greatest amateur team of all time. The leaders of that team were Bob McDougall, Shirley Davidson, and Graham Drinkwater - McLea and Cam Davidson were also key figures. The majority of these players were Montreal, Quebec, and Ottawa anglophones (mainly Montreal). Bob McDougall, Clary MacKerrow, Billy Barlow, Haviland Routh, and Shirley Davidson, and Chauncey Kirby were great hockey players that have long been forgotten. Graham Drinkwater should not have been in the Hall of Fame if these guys are not in it. Trihey is in the Hall of Fame and he only played 2 or 3 years. Alf Smith was one of the dirtiest players of all time and even Ottawa hated having him on their team. Yet these are the 3 in the Hall as opposed to the other 13. If they were prominent in the community afterwards that helped with their induction. Shirley Davidson was as good or better than Drinkwater but since he committed suicide in 1907 it adds to people forgetting what he accomplished in hockey. These guys played 50 years before the hall of fame was introduced. Clary MacKerrow was a phenomenal athlete as were all of these forgotten stars.

ALL TIME GOAL SCORING LIST AT THE END OF THE 1899 SEASON:
1. Bob McDougall (VICS) 49
2. A. E. "Dolly" Swift (Que) 37
3. Clary MacKerrow (MAAA) 34
4. Billy Barlow (MAAA) 33
5. Haviland Routh (MAAA) 32
6. Graham Drinkwater (Vics) 28
7. Shirley Davidson (VICS) 27
8. Alf Smith (Ott) 22
8. Herb Russell (OTT) 22
10. A. D. Scott (Que) 19
11. Norman Rankin (Vics) 18
11. Desse Brown (Sham/MAAA) = 18
11. Ernie McLea (Vics) 18
11. Chauncey Kirby (Ott) 18
15. Harry Trihey (Shamrocks) = 17
16. Cam Davidson (Vics) 14

Games played is nearly 100% accurate - 1 or 2 players may be a game off. Out of the list of forwards only 3 are in the Hall of Fame - Drinkwater, Westwick, and Smith.

Forwards
A. E. Swift (Quebec) = 43
A. D. Scott (Quebec) = 40
Billy Barlow (MAAA) = 39
Shirley Davidson (Vics) = 39
Graham Drinkwater (Vics) = 37
Chauncey Kirby (Ottawa) = 36
Bob McDougall (Vics) = 36
Harry Westwick (Ottawa) = 27
Clarey MacKerrow (MAAA) = 27
Herbert Russell (Ottawa) = 26
Dave Brown (Crystals) = 24
Alf Smith (Ottawa) = 24
Desse Brown (Sham/MAAA) = 24
Harry Horsfall (MAAA) = 23
Haviland Routh (MAAA) = 23
Archie Hodgson (MAAA) = 21
Ernie McLea (Vics) = 20

The Hall of Fame members in the Point/Cover Point position are Mike Grant and Harvey Pulford. They deserve to be there. Weldy Young should also be there. Weldy tutored Harvey Pulford and played more games than any other player in the 1890's. With Young at Cover Point and Pulford at Point Ottawa always had great defence. Young went looking for gold after the 1899 season and played a big part in bringing the team from Dawson City to Montreal in that classic Stanley Cup Challenge. Weldy was the captain of the team but he could not make the trip. Weldy also did some refereeing and was manager of the team in Haileybury (NHA) in later years with little success. Young-Davidson mining, still in existence today, was named after Weldy and his prospecting partner Jake Davidson.

Point/Cover Point
Weldy Young (Ottawa) = 51
Watson (Quebec) = 47
Mike Grant (Vics) = 43
Harvey Pulford (Ottawa) = 36
C. Scott (Quebec) = 25
Frank Stephens (Crys/Sham) = 24
Frank Wall (Shams) = 21
Roland Elliott (Victorias) = 20

Only one goaltender that played in the 1890's made the Hall of Fame and that is Ottawa's Brose Hutton who replaced Fred Chittick in 1899:

Shut-out Leaders:
Chittick (Ottawa) = 3
Collins (MAAA) = 3
Morel (Ottawa) = 2
Lewis (Vics) = 2
McKenna (Shamrocks) = 1

Games Played:
Herb Collins (Crystals/MAAA) = 50
F. S. Stocking (Que) = 42
Fred Chittick (Ott) = 31
Robert W. Jones (Vics) = 21
Gordie Lewis (Vics) = 18
A. Morel (Ottawa) = 14

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09-27-2006, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driveforfive View Post
I would like to show you posters the stats that I have compiled through old newspapers. The goals are not official as some games never showed the goal scorers but it gives a good indication of who the best players were. I have found that Hall of Fame members are the only men that are being remembered and in some cases they were far from being the best players. Of this group only 3 are in the Hockey Hall of Fame #6 Drinkwater, #8 Smith, and #15 Trihey. The Montreal Victorias were the greatest hockey team of the 1890's and argument can be used that they were the greatest amateur team of all time. The leaders of that team were Bob McDougall, Shirley Davidson, and Graham Drinkwater - McLea and Cam Davidson were also key figures. The majority of these players were Montreal, Quebec, and Ottawa anglophones (mainly Montreal). Bob McDougall, Clary MacKerrow, Billy Barlow, Haviland Routh, and Shirley Davidson, and Chauncey Kirby were great hockey players that have long been forgotten. Graham Drinkwater should not have been in the Hall of Fame if these guys are not in it. Trihey is in the Hall of Fame and he only played 2 or 3 years. Alf Smith was one of the dirtiest players of all time and even Ottawa hated having him on their team. Yet these are the 3 in the Hall as opposed to the other 13. If they were prominent in the community afterwards that helped with their induction. Shirley Davidson was as good or better than Drinkwater but since he committed suicide in 1907 it adds to people forgetting what he accomplished in hockey. These guys played 50 years before the hall of fame was introduced. Clary MacKerrow was a phenomenal athlete as were all of these forgotten stars.

ALL TIME GOAL SCORING LIST AT THE END OF THE 1899 SEASON:
1. Bob McDougall (VICS) 49
2. A. E. "Dolly" Swift (Que) 37
3. Clary MacKerrow (MAAA) 34
4. Billy Barlow (MAAA) 33
5. Haviland Routh (MAAA) 32
6. Graham Drinkwater (Vics) 28
7. Shirley Davidson (VICS) 27
8. Alf Smith (Ott) 22
8. Herb Russell (OTT) 22
10. A. D. Scott (Que) 19
11. Norman Rankin (Vics) 18
11. Desse Brown (Sham/MAAA) = 18
11. Ernie McLea (Vics) 18
11. Chauncey Kirby (Ott) 18
15. Harry Trihey (Shamrocks) = 17
16. Cam Davidson (Vics) 14

Games played is nearly 100% accurate - 1 or 2 players may be a game off. Out of the list of forwards only 3 are in the Hall of Fame - Drinkwater, Westwick, and Smith.

Forwards
A. E. Swift (Quebec) = 43
A. D. Scott (Quebec) = 40
Billy Barlow (MAAA) = 39
Shirley Davidson (Vics) = 39
Graham Drinkwater (Vics) = 37
Chauncey Kirby (Ottawa) = 36
Bob McDougall (Vics) = 36
Harry Westwick (Ottawa) = 27
Clarey MacKerrow (MAAA) = 27
Herbert Russell (Ottawa) = 26
Dave Brown (Crystals) = 24
Alf Smith (Ottawa) = 24
Desse Brown (Sham/MAAA) = 24
Harry Horsfall (MAAA) = 23
Haviland Routh (MAAA) = 23
Archie Hodgson (MAAA) = 21
Ernie McLea (Vics) = 20

The Hall of Fame members in the Point/Cover Point position are Mike Grant and Harvey Pulford. They deserve to be there. Weldy Young should also be there. Weldy tutored Harvey Pulford and played more games than any other player in the 1890's. With Young at Cover Point and Pulford at Point Ottawa always had great defence. Young went looking for gold after the 1899 season and played a big part in bringing the team from Dawson City to Montreal in that classic Stanley Cup Challenge. Weldy was the captain of the team but he could not make the trip. Weldy also did some refereeing and was manager of the team in Haileybury (NHA) in later years with little success. Young-Davidson mining, still in existence today, was named after Weldy and his prospecting partner Jake Davidson.

Point/Cover Point
Weldy Young (Ottawa) = 51
Watson (Quebec) = 47
Mike Grant (Vics) = 43
Harvey Pulford (Ottawa) = 36
C. Scott (Quebec) = 25
Frank Stephens (Crys/Sham) = 24
Frank Wall (Shams) = 21
Roland Elliott (Victorias) = 20

Only one goaltender that played in the 1890's made the Hall of Fame and that is Ottawa's Brose Hutton who replaced Fred Chittick in 1899:

Shut-out Leaders:
Chittick (Ottawa) = 3
Collins (MAAA) = 3
Morel (Ottawa) = 2
Lewis (Vics) = 2
McKenna (Shamrocks) = 1

Games Played:
Herb Collins (Crystals/MAAA) = 50
F. S. Stocking (Que) = 42
Fred Chittick (Ott) = 31
Robert W. Jones (Vics) = 21
Gordie Lewis (Vics) = 18
A. Morel (Ottawa) = 14
Does anyone know of any personal history of any of these players that I have not heard of?

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09-27-2006, 11:21 PM
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Considering stats before 1900 are nearly impossible to find and incredibly interesting to any hockey fan at the same time, I salute you.

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09-27-2006, 11:32 PM
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That's a pretty impressive effort. Good work. New posters who make a favourable first impression are few and far between. Lamentably, I can count on one hand the number of new posters that I respect. You've certainly made a good first impression on me. Hopefully we'll see more efforts like this in the future. Welcome to HF Boards.

You'll find that this is the best part of HF Boards. Some of the guys who have been watching the game for many years - ClassicHockey, murray, mcphee, Trottier, etc. - really know their stuff, and there are some brilliant, well researched younger (under 40) fans like Ogopogo, raleh, reckoning, Leaf Lander (once you get past the grammar) and Hockey Outsider.

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09-27-2006, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Transported Upstater View Post
Considering stats before 1900 are nearly impossible to find and incredibly interesting to any hockey fan at the same time, I salute you.
Thank You. It was a lot of fun (about 6 months of it). It made me appreciate these players. These people were not just playing back yard hockey - thousands of people came out and watched these games. These are the games that the Patrick brothers, Cyclone Taylor, and Joe Malone watched and the latter players inspired the next generation and so on. 1893-1917 were very important years in the development of the game. These guys were in great shape - They played the entire 60 minutes. The games were rough and spectators were involved in some of the fights lol. Stick swinging etc. - We still love the rough part of the game. The sport was attracted to in almost the same way as the Romans attracted to their gladiators. It was dirty and the crowds loved to hiss and holler. I was surprised at the amount of Montreal women that went to the games in droves.

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09-27-2006, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
That's a pretty impressive effort. Good work. New posters who make a favourable first impression are few and far between. Lamentably, I can count on one hand the number of new posters that I respect. You've certainly made a good first impression on me. Hopefully we'll see more efforts like this in the future. Welcome to HF Boards.

You'll find that this is the best part of HF Boards. Some of the guys who have been watching the game for many years - ClassicHockey, murray, mcphee, etc. - really know their stuff, and there are some brilliant, well researched younger (under 40) fans like Ogopogo, raleh, reckoning, Leaf Lander (once you get past the grammar) and Hockey Outsider.
Yeah I started posting about 3 weeks ago on my favorite teams board. OK I will say it - The New York Islanders (ha). I never realized HF Boards existed.

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09-28-2006, 12:10 AM
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with work like that, you should join SIHR, you would be a valuable addition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by driveforfive View Post
Thank You. It was a lot of fun (about 6 months of it). It made me appreciate these players. These people were not just playing back yard hockey - thousands of people came out and watched these games. These are the games that the Patrick brothers, Cyclone Taylor, and Joe Malone watched and the latter players inspired the next generation and so on. 1893-1917 were very important years in the development of the game. These guys were in great shape - They played the entire 60 minutes. The games were rough and spectators were involved in some of the fights lol. Stick swinging etc. - We still love the rough part of the game. The sport was attracted to in almost the same way as the Romans attracted to their gladiators. It was dirty and the crowds loved to hiss and holler. I was surprised at the amount of Montreal women that went to the games in droves.

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09-28-2006, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driveforfive View Post
I would like to show you posters the stats that I have compiled through old newspapers. The goals are not official as some games never showed the goal scorers but it gives a good indication of who the best players were. I have found that Hall of Fame members are the only men that are being remembered and in some cases they were far from being the best players. Of this group only 3 are in the Hockey Hall of Fame #6 Drinkwater, #8 Smith, and #15 Trihey. The Montreal Victorias were the greatest hockey team of the 1890's and argument can be used that they were the greatest amateur team of all time. The leaders of that team were Bob McDougall, Shirley Davidson, and Graham Drinkwater - McLea and Cam Davidson were also key figures. The majority of these players were Montreal, Quebec, and Ottawa anglophones (mainly Montreal). Bob McDougall, Clary MacKerrow, Billy Barlow, Haviland Routh, and Shirley Davidson, and Chauncey Kirby were great hockey players that have long been forgotten. Graham Drinkwater should not have been in the Hall of Fame if these guys are not in it. Trihey is in the Hall of Fame and he only played 2 or 3 years. Alf Smith was one of the dirtiest players of all time and even Ottawa hated having him on their team. Yet these are the 3 in the Hall as opposed to the other 13. If they were prominent in the community afterwards that helped with their induction. Shirley Davidson was as good or better than Drinkwater but since he committed suicide in 1907 it adds to people forgetting what he accomplished in hockey. These guys played 50 years before the hall of fame was introduced. Clary MacKerrow was a phenomenal athlete as were all of these forgotten stars.

ALL TIME GOAL SCORING LIST AT THE END OF THE 1899 SEASON:
1. Bob McDougall (VICS) 49
2. A. E. "Dolly" Swift (Que) 37
3. Clary MacKerrow (MAAA) 34
4. Billy Barlow (MAAA) 33
5. Haviland Routh (MAAA) 32
6. Graham Drinkwater (Vics) 28
7. Shirley Davidson (VICS) 27
8. Alf Smith (Ott) 22
8. Herb Russell (OTT) 22
10. A. D. Scott (Que) 19
11. Norman Rankin (Vics) 18
11. Desse Brown (Sham/MAAA) = 18
11. Ernie McLea (Vics) 18
11. Chauncey Kirby (Ott) 18
15. Harry Trihey (Shamrocks) = 17
16. Cam Davidson (Vics) 14

Games played is nearly 100% accurate - 1 or 2 players may be a game off. Out of the list of forwards only 3 are in the Hall of Fame - Drinkwater, Westwick, and Smith.

Forwards
A. E. Swift (Quebec) = 43
A. D. Scott (Quebec) = 40
Billy Barlow (MAAA) = 39
Shirley Davidson (Vics) = 39
Graham Drinkwater (Vics) = 37
Chauncey Kirby (Ottawa) = 36
Bob McDougall (Vics) = 36
Harry Westwick (Ottawa) = 27
Clarey MacKerrow (MAAA) = 27
Herbert Russell (Ottawa) = 26
Dave Brown (Crystals) = 24
Alf Smith (Ottawa) = 24
Desse Brown (Sham/MAAA) = 24
Harry Horsfall (MAAA) = 23
Haviland Routh (MAAA) = 23
Archie Hodgson (MAAA) = 21
Ernie McLea (Vics) = 20

The Hall of Fame members in the Point/Cover Point position are Mike Grant and Harvey Pulford. They deserve to be there. Weldy Young should also be there. Weldy tutored Harvey Pulford and played more games than any other player in the 1890's. With Young at Cover Point and Pulford at Point Ottawa always had great defence. Young went looking for gold after the 1899 season and played a big part in bringing the team from Dawson City to Montreal in that classic Stanley Cup Challenge. Weldy was the captain of the team but he could not make the trip. Weldy also did some refereeing and was manager of the team in Haileybury (NHA) in later years with little success. Young-Davidson mining, still in existence today, was named after Weldy and his prospecting partner Jake Davidson.

Point/Cover Point
Weldy Young (Ottawa) = 51
Watson (Quebec) = 47
Mike Grant (Vics) = 43
Harvey Pulford (Ottawa) = 36
C. Scott (Quebec) = 25
Frank Stephens (Crys/Sham) = 24
Frank Wall (Shams) = 21
Roland Elliott (Victorias) = 20

Only one goaltender that played in the 1890's made the Hall of Fame and that is Ottawa's Brose Hutton who replaced Fred Chittick in 1899:

Shut-out Leaders:
Chittick (Ottawa) = 3
Collins (MAAA) = 3
Morel (Ottawa) = 2
Lewis (Vics) = 2
McKenna (Shamrocks) = 1

Games Played:
Herb Collins (Crystals/MAAA) = 50
F. S. Stocking (Que) = 42
Fred Chittick (Ott) = 31
Robert W. Jones (Vics) = 21
Gordie Lewis (Vics) = 18
A. Morel (Ottawa) = 14
Great work, I have been long hoping somebody would find the time to collect these stats to go along with the Manitoba(Winnipeg) stats from Puckerings.com. Ever since I read the several hundred of hockey player biographies from "Hockey Over Time" -website in 1999-2000, in fact. Too bad that site isn't around any more, as far as I know.

Now since there seems to be some differences between your stat totals for some players (e.g. Trihey/Drinkwater compared to HHOF site), it would be even more great if you'd find time to post stats per year for all the players you have.

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09-28-2006, 02:21 AM
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Thank you. That was a very interesting post. Half of the players I never even heard of. Enlightning

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09-28-2006, 02:52 AM
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Awesome post man. Thanks for the info, I love reading up on classic hockey players.

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10-03-2006, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ClassicHockey View Post
with work like that, you should join SIHR, you would be a valuable addition.
I had never heard of SIHR - Thank You - I just typed it into Google and found the website. I will call them tomorrow. I cannot find the time to do this voluntarily as I am a heritage researcher by occupation. I work with the Historic Places Initiative of Canada - I research heritage buildings with the intent of creating heritage tourism. I would love to switch from buildings to hockey as a career. I have ideas of creating heritage tourism through hockey also. Example: I would love to create a walking tour that pointed out where the Victoria Rink, Crystal Rink, Westmount etc. stood, and pointed out homes of many of the great players.

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10-03-2006, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by gary69 View Post
Great work, I have been long hoping somebody would find the time to collect these stats to go along with the Manitoba(Winnipeg) stats from Puckerings.com. Ever since I read the several hundred of hockey player biographies from "Hockey Over Time" -website in 1999-2000, in fact. Too bad that site isn't around any more, as far as I know.

Now since there seems to be some differences between your stat totals for some players (e.g. Trihey/Drinkwater compared to HHOF site), it would be even more great if you'd find time to post stats per year for all the players you have.
I have found 2 obvious errors in the HHOF website.
1) Graham Drinkwater Biography:
"The talented Drinkwater's rookie season in 1895 was filled with achievement. He worked superbly with speedy cover point Mike Grant, Archie Hodgson and AHA leading scorer Haviland Routh. Drinkwater scored nine goals in eight contests to help the Victorias win the Amateur Hockey Association of Canada championship, and the title earned the club the distinction of being holders of the Stanley Cup."
Drinkwater never played on the same team as Haviland Routh and Archie Hodgson. Routh and Hodgson were MAAA men and Drinkwater was always with the Vics.

2) Harvey Pulford stats:
Harvey did not play a single game in 1898-1899 as the result of a serious football injury.

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10-03-2006, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by gary69 View Post
Great work, I have been long hoping somebody would find the time to collect these stats to go along with the Manitoba(Winnipeg) stats from Puckerings.com. Ever since I read the several hundred of hockey player biographies from "Hockey Over Time" -website in 1999-2000, in fact. Too bad that site isn't around any more, as far as I know.

Now since there seems to be some differences between your stat totals for some players (e.g. Trihey/Drinkwater compared to HHOF site), it would be even more great if you'd find time to post stats per year for all the players you have.
I don't think you would want me to post stats for all the players I have. There is quite a number of them. For example here are the stats of the 1898-1899 Montreal Victorias. HHOF has Bowie playing 7 games and having 11 goals, Grant as having 7 games and 2 goals, they also had Drinkwater as 6 games and 0 goals. Like I stated earlier some game reports never listed goal scorers and as passionate as they were about hockey the Montreal Star never reported leading scorers. I am not even certain if the league paid much attention to who scored. I don't know how the HHOF got their stats. Maybe some teams kept tabs on who scored? and the HHOF obtained their books. Some goals were just stated as "Scrimmage", meaning it was not known who scored.
See the 2nd leading scorer (below) Bob McDougall. McDougall stated after the 1898 season that he was too busy in his occupation to play the 1899 season but would play when anyone challenged to take the cup from the Vics. An indication of how elite McDougall was, is displayed in the fact that he played 2 regular season games for practise prior to the arrival of Winnipeg in their challenge for the cup in 1899. He scored 6 goals after missing the first 6 games and then scored 2 in the next game.
Search on Google and look through many hockey books and about the only thing you can find on McDougall is:

"In the Stanley Cup series of 1900, a chap named Bob McDougall of the Montreal Victorias clubbed a Winnipeg player, Tony Gingras, into an untidy heap. As Gingras was carted into the dressing room on a stretcher, the referee, one J.A. Findlay, said he would announce the penalty after he determined the extent of the injury.

When he discovered that Gingras was still breathing, he gave McDougall two minutes. The Winnipeg team was so angry it left the ice and forfeited the game."

As you saw from my previous stats - I have "this chap" Bob McDougall as scoring 12 goals more than his closest rival through the 1890's. Again this is not 100% accurate but the games that I am missing for McDougall definitely are the same games I am missing for the other Vics. I have a report of 49 goals scored by McDougall. His total may have been near 60. Give or take 1 or 2 games he played 36 games throughout the 1890's. This is a guy that is not in the HHOF and has long been forgotten.


GP G/GA
G - Richardson 4 16
G - Lewis 3 7
P - Fred McRobie 3
CP - Mike Grant 7 1
F - Cam Davidson 7 6
F - Ernie McLea 4 6
F - Bowie 7 9
F - Ewing 5 4
F - "Doc" Ac(k)er 2
F/P - Graham Drinkwater 6
F - Macdougall 2 8

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10-03-2006, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by driveforfive View Post
I don't think you would want me to post stats for all the players I have. There is quite a number of them. For example here are the stats of the 1898-1899 Montreal Victorias.
Actually I would, or if you have an opportunity to put up a similar webpage from AHA/CAHL than Winnipeg teams have.

http://www.puckerings.com/stats.html

Does your combined player points totals per team generally match the league table totals for AHA/CAHL (see for example Total Hockey 1998 ed., pages 384-385).

Or if you have your stats in any text -format, maybe you could PM them for me (just for my personal use).

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10-03-2006, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by driveforfive View Post
I have found 2 obvious errors in the HHOF website.
1) Graham Drinkwater Biography:
"The talented Drinkwater's rookie season in 1895 was filled with achievement. He worked superbly with speedy cover point Mike Grant, Archie Hodgson and AHA leading scorer Haviland Routh. Drinkwater scored nine goals in eight contests to help the Victorias win the Amateur Hockey Association of Canada championship, and the title earned the club the distinction of being holders of the Stanley Cup."
Drinkwater never played on the same team as Haviland Routh and Archie Hodgson. Routh and Hodgson were MAAA men and Drinkwater was always with the Vics.
This is not my own research, but I copied years ago (I think from Hockey over time -website mentioned in my earlier post, not sure though) the following regarding Drinkwater:

"Drinkwater played for four teams that won the Stanley Cup. When the Cup was first presented in 1893, he was still at McGill University, gaining fame as a hockey and football standout.
His first championship came during the 1892-93 seasons while he was a member of the Montreal AAA junior team. The following autumn, Drinkwater played on the McGill junior football championship team, and in 1894 he was a member of the McGill intermediate hockey team that won a title.

Drinkwater left McGill to join the Montreal Victorias in 1895, and his winning ways followed him. The Victorias won the Stanley Cup, then lost it to the Winnipeg Victorias in 1895-96 but came back to claim three more Cup triumphs. Drinkwater was team captain during the 1898-99 victory.

1892-93 Montreal AAA AHA 3 1 1" etc.

If this is true and he played 92/93 with Montreal AAA juniors and 3 regular season matches in AHA, then he in all likelyhood played in the same team as Routh and Hodgson. HHOF just got years mixed up and a wrong team for Drinkwater for 92/93 season.

This is one of the reasons I would like to see your players stats for every year and every team.

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Old
10-03-2006, 07:12 PM
  #16
Bluesfan1981
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Ultimate Hockey's 1890s Projected Hart, Norris, and Vezina Winners


Hart
1890 A. McNaughton
1891 A. Cameron
1892 R. Bradley
1893 H. Routh
1894 A. Swift
1895 H. Routh
1896 M. Grant
1897 B. McDougall
1898 M. Grant
1899 H. Trihey

Norris
1890 A. Cameron
1891 A. Cameron
1892 J. Stewart
1893 W. Young
1894 W. Young
1895 M. Grant
1896 M. Grant
1897 M. Grant
1898 M. Grant
1899 M. Grant

Vezina
1890 T. Paton
1891 T. Paton
1892 A. Morel
1893 T. Paton
1894 H. Collins
1895 H. Collins
1896 F. Chittick
1897 F. Chittick
1898 H. Collins
1899 J. McKenna

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10-06-2006, 10:40 AM
  #17
Snap Wilson
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Excellent thread!

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Old
10-06-2006, 11:18 AM
  #18
Chalupa Batman
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Definitely a good thread - I'm glad it was bumped.

I don't have my copy here, but what else does Ultimate Hockey say about the 1890s stars?

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10-06-2006, 12:12 PM
  #19
SniperMogilny2K6*
 
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...1890 thats 100 years older than me
I know Joe Malone was a good player around the 1900's, averging 2+ goals a game.

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12-01-2010, 07:35 PM
  #20
JFA87-66-99
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This is a good thread. I've always been interersted in hockey from that era

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Old
12-01-2010, 10:03 PM
  #21
Leaf Lander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
That's a pretty impressive effort. Good work. New posters who make a favourable first impression are few and far between. Lamentably, I can count on one hand the number of new posters that I respect. You've certainly made a good first impression on me. Hopefully we'll see more efforts like this in the future. Welcome to HF Boards.

You'll find that this is the best part of HF Boards. Some of the guys who have been watching the game for many years - ClassicHockey, murray, mcphee, Trottier, etc. - really know their stuff, and there are some brilliant, well researched younger (under 40) fans like Ogopogo, raleh, reckoning, Leaf Lander (once you get past the grammar) and Hockey Outsider.
i just chuckled gosh thanks lol

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05-23-2013, 04:44 PM
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Leigh13
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Frank Wall was my great grandfather, he also refereed as well as played. The family lure is that he stopped playing to become a referee because they made more money back then and he had 6 kids. We have found more information in a hockey book put online in Canada a few years ago. It was believed to be the first book written about hockey in Canada. It is on the government of Canada archives website. We also found a newspaper clipping from a Winnepeg, Manitoba newspaper that had his name in an article about hockey, he was listed as a referee.

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