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David Desharnais Discussion Part II: The 'Stay on your Feet' Edition

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Old
05-13-2013, 09:49 AM
  #801
ak90210
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We should keep Kaberle for one year go with a D-Core of:

79 76
74 61
22 26
55/42/40

And amnesty Desharnais, either sign decent winger for 3/4 years or wait it out and sign a cheap depth forward or two to one year deals.

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05-13-2013, 09:57 AM
  #802
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Or compliance Desharnais and use a regular buyout on Kaberle. It would only leave us with a cap hit of 1.25/1.5 mil for 2 years. Heck we could even use a regular buyout on Kaberle and save the compliance one as trade bait. Buy out another teams awful contract for picks/prospects.

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05-13-2013, 04:13 PM
  #803
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What a lame explanation Bergevin gave for signing Desharnais mid-season.

Bergevin said that Desharnais had arbitration rights, and he would have gotten the same amount( ie $3.5M) anyway??

Makes no sense giving a guy $3.5M for FOUR F**KEN YEARS because of his one year arbitration rights.

I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that DD signed on with agent Pat Brisson on May 7th. The same Pat Brisson who is a very good buddy of Marc Bergevin.

Same old BS with the habs.

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Old
05-13-2013, 04:17 PM
  #804
Em Ancien
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
What a lame explanation Bergevin gave for signing Desharnais mid-season.

Bergevin said that Desharnais had arbitration rights, and he would have gotten the same amount( ie $3.5M) anyway??

Makes no sense giving a guy $3.5M for FOUR F**KEN YEARS because of his one year arbitration rights.

I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that DD signed on with agent Pat Brisson on May 7th. The same Pat Brisson who is a very good buddy of Marc Bergevin.

Same old BS with the habs.
Bergevin was clearly afraid of Desharnais having another big year by the end of the season which would've made his cap hit significantly higher, even if the term was lower. Hence, why he did what he did. I think he even said in hindsight, it might not look like a great decision now, but it is what it is.

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05-13-2013, 04:30 PM
  #805
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In my honest opinion, DD doesn't really fit on this team. But then i can say the same thing going forward for bunch of other players. Plekanec at 5 million a year does not fit on this team. Markov is equally too expensive to stay, same with Gionta. Diaz has no place on the team in 1-2 years. Obviously Weber, Kaberle and Ryder are gone.

If Eller and Galchenyuk continue to be as good as they were last year (and as much as everyone just assumes they will, there's no guarantee), i would try Desharnais on the wing. He has great vision and a scoring touch that is underrated.

Desharnais should be looked at as more of an offensive utility player. At 3.5m a year, i think he offers decent value. Do l love his game? No. But i think with a little bit of tinkering he can become useful on this team next year. Like Plekanec, his fate will be decided on how quickly our young stud centers become consistent star players.

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05-13-2013, 04:32 PM
  #806
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I know everyone feels like beating on DD but it's really not his fault. He's a decent 2nd or 3rd line center on an offensively strapped team with size. Makes no sense to have him out there with Gionta, Pleks and Gallagher in our top six.

All are players with talent, all can contribute to winning but having that many small guys in your top lines is just asking for trouble. He's done well for us and he's got talent. I think he can be part of a winning team but he should be set up for success and I don't think we're doing that for him here with the roster we have.

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05-13-2013, 04:41 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by Markowicz View Post
In my honest opinion, DD doesn't really fit on this team. But then i can say the same thing going forward for bunch of other players. Plekanec at 5 million a year does not fit on this team. Markov is equally too expensive to stay, same with Gionta. Diaz has no place on the team in 1-2 years. Obviously Weber, Kaberle and Ryder are gone.

If Eller and Galchenyuk continue to be as good as they were last year (and as much as everyone just assumes they will, there's no guarantee), i would try Desharnais on the wing. He has great vision and a scoring touch that is underrated.

Desharnais should be looked at as more of an offensive utility player. At 3.5m a year, i think he offers decent value. Do l love his game? No. But i think with a little bit of tinkering he can become useful on this team next year. Like Plekanec, his fate will be decided on how quickly our young stud centers become consistent star players.
You're getting way too far ahead here. You are dismissing players as if we could replace them by equivalent people tommorow.

Plekanec is a very good veteran, he's not a first line center ideally, but then again, can you put Eller, Galchenyuk or Desharnais on the first line and expect them to do as well?

DD might not fit, but can you be sure that Galchenyuk can be ready to do his job? What if DD bounces back? Will you sing hte same tune?

We both agree that Markov is overpaid, but he loves Montréal and is a very good veteran, it's his last year of his contract and might accept a salary reduction to stay here.

Gionta, last year of his contract, he is a good veteran, do you have anyone in the farm that can bring in 20 - 25 goals? Can you promise me that Collberg or Kristo or Holland can do that? Brian is also a very good veteran, if he accept a salary reduction I'm willing to retain him.

Diaz, we will see when we have enough defenseman and DIaz becomes an healthy scratch, but like you said, he will be too much eventually, let's work it out when we get there.

I'd keep Ryder if he acept a contract around 3 and 3.8M$ for 2 years. Otherwise he can walk away.

Kaberle is obviously going to be bought back.

Yannick Weber, I wouldn,t dismiss him so easily. He has potential and many teams wants good puck moving defenseman. Weber can certainly rack minimum a 3rd round pick imo.

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05-13-2013, 04:58 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
What a lame explanation Bergevin gave for signing Desharnais mid-season.

Bergevin said that Desharnais had arbitration rights, and he would have gotten the same amount( ie $3.5M) anyway??

Makes no sense giving a guy $3.5M for FOUR F**KEN YEARS because of his one year arbitration rights.

I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that DD signed on with agent Pat Brisson on May 7th. The same Pat Brisson who is a very good buddy of Marc Bergevin.

Same old BS with the habs.
thats what I said from day one my friend , plus who the F was going to risk draft pick compensation with an offer sheet ....NO ONE

so he goes to arbitration , simply walk away if you dont like it , or take the one year deal and let him prove it

there was no pressure at all to ge this done now , we arent talking about Oreily form Colorado and up and coming stud , DD is useless and u win nothing with him

great post my friend

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05-13-2013, 05:03 PM
  #809
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thats what I said from day one my friend , plus who the F was going to risk draft pick compensation with an offer sheet ....NO ONE

so he goes to arbitration , simply walk away if you dont like it , or take the one year deal and let him prove it

there was no pressure at all to ge this done now , we arent talking about Oreily form Colorado and up and coming stud , DD is useless and u win nothing with him

great post my friend
Yeah yeah, let's dismiss the fact that Desharnais could of finished strong and might have required a more hefty contract too... It's easy to look back and sprout BS, but no one had a Crystal ball to know how he would of performed after signing his contract (or not signing it).

It's also as if Desharnais is a bust and can not and will not bounce back next season, His career is ded. Don't be dishonest here...

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05-13-2013, 05:06 PM
  #810
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You're getting way too far ahead here. You are dismissing players as if we could replace them by equivalent people tommorow.

Plekanec is a very good veteran, he's not a first line center ideally, but then again, can you put Eller, Galchenyuk or Desharnais on the first line and expect them to do as well?

DD might not fit, but can you be sure that Galchenyuk can be ready to do his job? What if DD bounces back? Will you sing hte same tune?

We both agree that Markov is overpaid, but he loves Montréal and is a very good veteran, it's his last year of his contract and might accept a salary reduction to stay here.

Gionta, last year of his contract, he is a good veteran, do you have anyone in the farm that can bring in 20 - 25 goals? Can you promise me that Collberg or Kristo or Holland can do that? Brian is also a very good veteran, if he accept a salary reduction I'm willing to retain him.

Diaz, we will see when we have enough defenseman and DIaz becomes an healthy scratch, but like you said, he will be too much eventually, let's work it out when we get there.

I'd keep Ryder if he acept a contract around 3 and 3.8M$ for 2 years. Otherwise he can walk away.

Kaberle is obviously going to be bought back.

Yannick Weber, I wouldn,t dismiss him so easily. He has potential and many teams wants good puck moving defenseman. Weber can certainly rack minimum a 3rd round pick imo.
Buddy how the hell can Glachenyuk be worse than the MIDGET ????

how can he not be ready to take the #1 job , who is in his way ????

did u watch the playoffs ? DD cant play , Markov cant defend anymore and is worn out at 50 games , time to move on after his contract

Dias is garbage , period , he is depth d man on a good team

Weber isnt worth a bag of doritos right now

we need changes not keep the same parts that cant compete

DD, Markov, Weber , Kaddie, Moen, Colby, Gio , Cube ,Ryder need to be gone at worst after next season

better take a step back for 2 forwards

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05-13-2013, 05:12 PM
  #811
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Yeah yeah, let's dismiss the fact that Desharnais could of finished strong and might have required a more hefty contract too... It's easy to look back and sprout BS, but no one had a Crystal ball to know how he would of performed after signing his contract (or not signing it).

It's also as if Desharnais is a bust and can not and will not bounce back next season, His career is ded. Don't be dishonest here...
my freind there isn`t a contending team in this league that has a DD in their lineup
name one ? a sheltered one dimensional defensive liability who gets first wave of pp time and cant producte with top players .

there is no debate here folks , he is a 40-50 point who belongs in Phoenix or Calgary where he can float get some points and win nothing , thats all he is

there is no chrystal ball , if the playoffs havent convinced you that you dont go to war with this player you need

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05-13-2013, 05:14 PM
  #812
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Buddy how the hell can Glachenyuk be worse than the MIDGET ????

how can he not be ready to take the #1 job , who is in his way ????

did u watch the playoffs ? DD cant play , Markov cant defend anymore and is worn out at 50 games , time to move on after his contract

Dias is garbage , period , he is depth d man on a good team

Weber isnt worth a bag of doritos right now

we need changes not keep the same parts that cant compete

DD, Markov, Weber , Kaddie, Moen, Colby, Gio , Cube ,Ryder need to be gone at worst after next season

better take a step back for 2 forwards
Well given that Galchenyuk struggle on center and the team prefered Desharnais overh im, that would spark a light somewhere? I would hope? Maybe?

Ok, so you feel like Galchenyuk is already at the level of Plekanec when it comes to experience? maturity? understanding the game? being able to be sound defensively? being able to put the strain of producing every night?

Because a 5 game sample is the best sample you will ever find, amiright?

Yeah Diaz is so garbage, he was one of our best producing defenseman until his injury.

Yeah right, of course, young and nhl ready defenseman are so easy to find, they fall from trees...

They are so garbage, we finished 2nd i nthe conference with them, obviously, absolutely no team in the NHL would want them.

I agree, the Habs need to self implode every otehr years. Let's get rid of every players , the GM and the coach, why fix a strategy that worked so well for us in the past 20 yers?

With that said, either you are very desilusional or you are trolling me. I agree that we don't have the team to win teh Stanley Cup right now, but I don,t think that changing 1$ for a bunch of quarters will really bring you closer to the NHL either. GOing from MB press conference, enither does he... or so it seems.

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05-13-2013, 05:15 PM
  #813
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
my freind there isn`t a contending team in this league that has a DD in their lineup
name one ? a sheltered one dimensional defensive liability who gets first wave of pp time and cant producte with top players .

there is no debate here folks , he is a 40-50 point who belongs in Phoenix or Calgary where he can float get some points and win nothing , thats all he is

there is no chrystal ball , if the playoffs havent convinced you that you dont go to war with this player you need
Of course no contending team has a player who underproduces on a given season. With that said, you're quickly dismissing him, did I miss somethign or his career is over? Is he a bust? He'll never produce again?

Man CLowe sucked so bad before being traded to the Rangers, it's a Wonder he managed to score and *gasp* even produce after it happened!?!?! Are we in teh bizarro world?!?

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05-13-2013, 05:32 PM
  #814
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at the end of the day, imo, the habs are a better team with

plekanec
Eller
chuckie (playing softer minutes with a guy like prust and another responsible winger)

then having eller as your number three with chuckie as a winger

eller needs to be given more offensive responsibilities as a center..hes 6"1 and plays big and hes shown this year that he can produce and it makes zero sense that they hold him back in order to accommodate a 5'6 center who needs big wingers and limited defensive responsibilities

at the end of the day, desharnais gets hate not because hes necessarily a bad player but because he is in the way of players who deserve PP time and more then 8 to 12 mins a game

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05-13-2013, 05:37 PM
  #815
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Of course no contending team has a player who underproduces on a given season. With that said, you're quickly dismissing him, did I miss somethign or his career is over? Is he a bust? He'll never produce again?

Man CLowe sucked so bad before being traded to the Rangers, it's a Wonder he managed to score and *gasp* even produce after it happened!?!?! Are we in teh bizarro world?!?
it has nothing to do with him being a bust

its the fact that we have big capable young centers who deserve more then what theyre getting

id have no problem with moving him to wing if gally and or gionta wasnt in the picture but that isnt the case and the habs are a better team with pleks, eller, and chuckie down the middle

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05-13-2013, 08:04 PM
  #816
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Well given that Galchenyuk struggle on center and the team prefered Desharnais overh im, that would spark a light somewhere? I would hope? Maybe?

Ok, so you feel like Galchenyuk is already at the level of Plekanec when it comes to experience? maturity? understanding the game? being able to be sound defensively? being able to put the strain of producing every night?

Because a 5 game sample is the best sample you will ever find, amiright?

Yeah Diaz is so garbage, he was one of our best producing defenseman until his injury.

Yeah right, of course, young and nhl ready defenseman are so easy to find, they fall from trees...

They are so garbage, we finished 2nd i nthe conference with them, obviously, absolutely no team in the NHL would want them.

I agree, the Habs need to self implode every otehr years. Let's get rid of every players , the GM and the coach, why fix a strategy that worked so well for us in the past 20 yers?

With that said, either you are very desilusional or you are trolling me. I agree that we don't have the team to win teh Stanley Cup right now, but I don,t think that changing 1$ for a bunch of quarters will really bring you closer to the NHL either. GOing from MB press conference, enither does he... or so it seems.
what the hell do did you expect MB to say, " folks DD is utterly useless " to the media , wake up , he said the company line like any other GM would

forget second spot , this is a shortened year where anything goes , dont use this 48 games as our body of work , look at the big picture my friend

we dont have the horses to win the derby , plain and simple

what trolling ? I am calling a spade a spade

answer me this

R U going to compete with this roster ? especially come playoff time ?

the answer is no , so why keep the team in tact ?

is our D among the worst in the playoffs as a whole ?

are u going to put Cube , Dias , Gorges , Markov in the class of Method , Karlson, Cowan and Gryba as a unit ? wake up not even close

how can Galchenyuk not be better than DD right given his skill set ? DD played like crap on the top line and AG made plays , scored a beauty goal , showed skill , and will probably be 210 pounds at camp , what more does he have to show you
as the third pick in the draft with no PP time and outscored him and outplayed him ?

defenseman are hard to find , but **** defenders are easy to replace like Dias , yes he can skate and score some points in the regular season but when push comes to shove come playoff time , WHERE IS HE ? same as Cube ? Gorges ?

Markov is worn out at 50 games what is he going to do at 82 , I like him and will keep him next season but then at 36 , let him go Nathan and Tinordi need to be phased in at some point

we have a terrible combo , small weak defenders , lack of size on the top 6 and bottom six who cant produce like our fourth line , who do nothing

I want a cup like 20 years ago , but we are nowhere near ready to compete for one

all I ask is for MB to look at this roster and not resign our free agents who have no fit moving forward like Dias , Colby , and even Ryder .

do you want Ryder for 3 more years at 4 mil like some suggest ? what for ?

by the time we are ready to do something he is done in this league

be patient with no bandaid fixes , we are on the right track , with a nice core of kids developing and a potential franchise center and a stud in PK

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05-13-2013, 08:07 PM
  #817
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at the end of the day, imo, the habs are a better team with

plekanec
Eller
chuckie (playing softer minutes with a guy like prust and another responsible winger)

then having eller as your number three with chuckie as a winger

eller needs to be given more offensive responsibilities as a center..hes 6"1 and plays big and hes shown this year that he can produce and it makes zero sense that they hold him back in order to accommodate a 5'6 center who needs big wingers and limited defensive responsibilities

at the end of the day, desharnais gets hate not because hes necessarily a bad player but because he is in the way of players who deserve PP time and more then 8 to 12 mins a game

great post

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05-13-2013, 09:01 PM
  #818
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Markov is worn out at 50 games what is he going to do at 82 , I like him and will keep him next season but then at 36 , let him go Nathan and Tinordi need to be phased in at some point
Markov played 74 games this season after barely playing for a couple years. He'll be better next year with a full injury free summer to get in peak shape.

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05-13-2013, 09:49 PM
  #819
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Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
Of course no contending team has a player who underproduces on a given season. With that said, you're quickly dismissing him, did I miss somethign or his career is over? Is he a bust? He'll never produce again?

Man CLowe sucked so bad before being traded to the Rangers, it's a Wonder he managed to score and *gasp* even produce after it happened!?!?! Are we in teh bizarro world?!?
It's not just whether he produces but HOW he produces. Soft minutes given to him and his lines could be given to rookies to ease them into the NHL.

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05-13-2013, 10:17 PM
  #820
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how can he not be ready to take the #1 job , who is in his way ????
Err...well, he did get exposed defensively during the playoffs and Ottawa did take advantage of that. It's a little early for him to become #1 C I think.

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05-13-2013, 10:27 PM
  #821
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We should keep Kaberle for one year go with a D-Core of:

79 76
74 61
22 26
55/42/40

And amnesty Desharnais, either sign decent winger for 3/4 years or wait it out and sign a cheap depth forward or two to one year deals.
You realize that, if you were a GM, you'd be immediately fired and become the laughingstock of the league if you were to buy out a player who has 1 month and 2 weeks left on its contract?

This is why I really like DD's signing. Haters gonna hate so much and will eventually leave for another team, thus purifying of fanbase of utter moronism that actually plagued it for this season at the very least.

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05-13-2013, 11:23 PM
  #822
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You realize that, if you were a GM, you'd be immediately fired and become the laughingstock of the league if you were to buy out a player who has 1 month and 2 weeks left on its contract?

This is why I really like DD's signing. Haters gonna hate so much and will eventually leave for another team, thus purifying of fanbase of utter moronism that actually plagued it for this season at the very least.
Obviously, the first choice would be to trade him. Assuming that isn't possible and the amnesty won't work on his extension then we're screwed. Good job on possibly getting me on a CBA technicality.Now, if I were GM he never would have been signed to an extension in the first place so we would't be in this mess.

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05-13-2013, 11:28 PM
  #823
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Originally Posted by ak90210 View Post
We should keep Kaberle for one year go with a D-Core of:

79 76
74 61
22 26
55/42/40

And amnesty Desharnais, either sign decent winger for 3/4 years or wait it out and sign a cheap depth forward or two to one year deals.
wow lol i dont even

trade Desharnais if you don't want him... amnesty..

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05-13-2013, 11:40 PM
  #824
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what the hell do did you expect MB to say, " folks DD is utterly useless " to the media , wake up , he said the company line like any other GM would

forget second spot , this is a shortened year where anything goes , dont use this 48 games as our body of work , look at the big picture my friend

we dont have the horses to win the derby , plain and simple

what trolling ? I am calling a spade a spade

answer me this

R U going to compete with this roster ? especially come playoff time ?

the answer is no , so why keep the team in tact ?

is our D among the worst in the playoffs as a whole ?

are u going to put Cube , Dias , Gorges , Markov in the class of Method , Karlson, Cowan and Gryba as a unit ? wake up not even close

how can Galchenyuk not be better than DD right given his skill set ? DD played like crap on the top line and AG made plays , scored a beauty goal , showed skill , and will probably be 210 pounds at camp , what more does he have to show you
as the third pick in the draft with no PP time and outscored him and outplayed him ?

defenseman are hard to find , but **** defenders are easy to replace like Dias , yes he can skate and score some points in the regular season but when push comes to shove come playoff time , WHERE IS HE ? same as Cube ? Gorges ?

Markov is worn out at 50 games what is he going to do at 82 , I like him and will keep him next season but then at 36 , let him go Nathan and Tinordi need to be phased in at some point

we have a terrible combo , small weak defenders , lack of size on the top 6 and bottom six who cant produce like our fourth line , who do nothing

I want a cup like 20 years ago , but we are nowhere near ready to compete for one

all I ask is for MB to look at this roster and not resign our free agents who have no fit moving forward like Dias , Colby , and even Ryder .

do you want Ryder for 3 more years at 4 mil like some suggest ? what for ?

by the time we are ready to do something he is done in this league

be patient with no bandaid fixes , we are on the right track , with a nice core of kids developing and a potential franchise center and a stud in PK
Great post!

I would rather the habs finish bottom five with Chuckie at center and get a top draft pick than muddle along with DD and make the playoffs only to fizzle out in the first round.

The objective is to win the Stanley Cup. Bergevin even mentioned that you can not get a contending team through free agency.. you must do it in the draft. Well wouldn't a top five or even a top ten pick be better than picking 25th?

The smart move is to remove from the team the elements will not help you win the cup in the long run. Enough with the midgets... ship them out and start building a winning team and not a poser team.

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05-14-2013, 03:03 AM
  #825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ak90210 View Post
We should keep Kaberle for one year go with a D-Core of:

79 76
74 61
22 26
55/42/40

And amnesty Desharnais, either sign decent winger for 3/4 years or wait it out and sign a cheap depth forward or two to one year deals.
I'm pretty sure Desharnais still has value if he needs to be traded (although he should be given another season to prove he can contribute). I'm also pretty sure you can use an amnesty buyout on a player signed to a contract after the lockout if over. Now that you know the terms of next years payroll , we knowingly offered DD an extension , amnesty doesn't apply.

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