HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2013 NHL Draft Talk Part 4: Flyers own the 11th overall pick

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-12-2013, 09:59 PM
  #451
JetsHomer
Registered User
 
JetsHomer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,371
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
If we could pull of the 14th and possibly the Rangers/Kings picks, that would be nice. I think if the Rags lose and so do the Wings (in each of their series'), the Rangers' pick I think would be 17th?
It depends on what happens in the second round too. Islanders have 15th, Buffalo via minny at 16, then Ottawa and Detroit are born below them. Pick could get as high 19th

JetsHomer is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 07:10 AM
  #452
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,901
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Sbisa and Pitkanen are both quality NHL defenseman. Woywitka, drafted 27th overall, is really the only defensive "bust" we've legitimately had in over two decades.

The problem is not that we suck at developing them, but that we don't try to develop them. The fallacy created by a bunch of 2nd round pick busts like Marshall, Ratchuk, and Bodrov (the only defensemen we've blown 2nd round picks on in over a decade) is pretty alarming here. You just don't get quality players beyond the 1st. It's a crapshoot.

We've only drafted 3 defensemen in the 1st round, when the vast majority of NHL talent is taken. Out of those 3, we've hit on 2 if not 2.5 of them (Woywitka played in the league for a bit). The second round has sucked for picking defensemen, but it sucks for every team picking every position.

We have a couple wins in there though, as many as any other team anyway. Bourdon's not in the NHL right now because of concussions. You can't fault development there. Alex Picard is roughly the same as Woywitka in terms of NHL feasibility, but he was drafted later. Seidenberg is an obvious late-round win for our organization even though he ended up elsewhere. Lauridsen looks to be potentially around the Picard/Woywitka level. Gostisbehere seems like the real key.

So we're not developing any less in later rounds than most organizations. The lack of picks used on defensemen in the first round has created this fictitious image of our organization.

While I wouldn't bet the farm that we could draft a defenseman better than other organizations out there, I think we certainly could start to develop blueliners if we started using 1sts on them.
We can go on and on and on about this topic. You have your opinion on the issue and I have mine. Until the Flyers start developing and keeping their own defensemen, the issue will always raise it's head about whether the Flyers can competently draft and develop defensemen, regardless of where they draft a defenseman.

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 07:55 AM
  #453
SolidSnakeUS
Registered User
 
SolidSnakeUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pipersville, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,706
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
It depends on what happens in the second round too. Islanders have 15th, Buffalo via minny at 16, then Ottawa and Detroit are born below them. Pick could get as high 19th
But both are moving onto the next round. I would think for those that lose in the first round (the 8 of 16) are sorted via points/ROW (whoever has the lowest of those that got knocked out, get the higher pick... I think). I think if the Rangers still lost, it would be 17th overall.

SolidSnakeUS is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 08:27 AM
  #454
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,559
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
But both are moving onto the next round. I would think for those that lose in the first round (the 8 of 16) are sorted via points/ROW (whoever has the lowest of those that got knocked out, get the higher pick... I think). I think if the Rangers still lost, it would be 17th overall.
If NYR and TOR lose:
NYI- 15th
BUF(MIN)- 16th
CLB(NYR)- 17th
TOR- 18th
VAN- 19th
CGY(STL)- 20th
MTL- 21st
ANH- 22nd

If WSH and BOS lose:
NYI- 15th
BUF(MIN)- 16th
WSH- 17th
VAN- 18th
CGY(STL)- 19th
BOS- 20th
MTL- 21st
ANH- 22nd

If WSH and TOR lose:
NYI- 15th
BUF(MIN)- 16th
WSH- 17th
TOR- 18th
VAN- 19th
CGY(STL)- 20th
MTL- 21st
ANH- 22nd

If NYR and BOS lose:
NYI- 15th
BUF(MIN)- 16th
CBL(NYR)- 17th
VAN- 18th
CGY(STL)-19th
BOS- 20th
MTL- 21st
ANH- 22nd


Last edited by LegionOfDoom91: 05-13-2013 at 09:00 AM.
LegionOfDoom91 is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 08:34 AM
  #455
SolidSnakeUS
Registered User
 
SolidSnakeUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pipersville, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,706
vCash: 500
So yeah, I hope the Rangers lose if we were to go the route of getting 14th and 17th. We'd have to give more than 11th though to get both probably.

SolidSnakeUS is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 08:50 AM
  #456
Hockeypete49
How you like me now!
 
Hockeypete49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 4,527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I think Morrissey has the potential to be another Kimmo Timonen or, dare I say it, Drew Doughty type of defenseman. The one thing that doesn't get talked about when it comes to Morrissey is just how smart he is on the ice. I know I talk a lot about how the smarts of a player, but to me, if you're drafting a player, you want to know that they think and play at the same time and with Morrissey, you can just see how well he thinks the game out on the ice. He doesn't have the size that other players have, so he also relies on positioning, poke checking, and thinking the play ahead when he makes a move. That's what number 1 defensemen do - they are always thinking out there. I think that's the one thing that impresses me the most about Morrissey and why I view him so highly. His game really does remind of Kimmo and Drew, but he might have a better shot than both of them.

As for Samuel Morin, I'm not sold on him at all and I'll explain more in the next part.



Samuel Morin scares the hell out of me and that's because he's 6'7 and he skates well for a man his size. I'm sold on him being a Tyler Myers at all. One of the things that really struck me with regards to Morin is that he's a guy who has a lot of work to do in improving his footwork. Even though he's a good skater, he got turned inside out at the U18 tournament several times. As well, his pivoting and turning while working in the corners also needs a lot of work.

I suppose the offensive game between the two is similar, but Morin has an awful lot of work ahead of him. I suppose he could have a Chara-like rise if he's developed in the proper environment, but that's really hoping that everything on his development path goes right. That's the problem with a guy like Morin - he might have the raw skill to be an impact player down the road, but it's getting him from point a to point b that's going to be the challenge. If he doesn't pan out and other defensemen drafted after him turn out to be the real deal, that's a move that can set a franchise back by several years. The Flyers can't afford to be risk takers in this situation. They just don't have the depth in their system to take on such a project at 11. At 41? Yeah no problem, but not at 11.



What worries me about Morin is that there's so much work that needs to be done to cultivate that raw skill. If the Flyers had a development system like Detroit or Phoenix does when it comes to defensemen, then there wouldn't be so much to worry about - and that's the problem with the Flyers. Their development system for defensemen leaves a lot to be desired. Yes, I'm willing to give Terry Murray a chance to see if he can turn any of the young defenders into quality NHL defensemen, but it's going to take time.

As for Lauridsen, he has been a 4 year and change project in the making. According to some on here, he's still a ways away from being an NHL defender, so he isn't out of the woods yet. With Morin, you're looking at least another two seasons of junior and then probably two years at the AHL level and then a couple of seasons at the NHL and even then, you're probably not looking at him making an impact until he's 25 at the earliest.
You and I differ on Morin. I agree he is not ready to step in and play right away but this young man's ceiling is off the charts. He stood out at the U18 tournament. I have been watching hockey since the 60's and still cannot predict where and when a player will make a impact in the league.Hell if I was that good I would be working for some team in the NHLAnyway we should get a very good player at 11. I said before I like Josh. But Sam really has me intrigued.

Hockeypete49 is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 08:54 AM
  #457
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,548
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
So yeah, I hope the Rangers lose if we were to go the route of getting 14th and 17th. We'd have to give more than 11th though to get both probably.
Is that an actual rumor going around or are we just spit-balling? moving back three to get an extra pick would be great, but I imagine it would cost at least the second rounder as well. Trade 11 and 41 for 14 and 17. I'd do it, not so sure CBJ would though. Could draft a D-man still with the 14th pick (one of Pulock, Haag, Morrissey, Morin, even Risto if he falls should still be around). With 17 you could be looking at Mantha, Domi, Lazar, or even doubling up on a Dman if someone else is still there.

EDIT: Or lets get crazy. Trade 1st next year and second and third this year for 14/17. Take Zadorov or Risto with 11, Pulock, Morrissey, or Morin (or the other of Zadorov of Risto if they are still around) and grab Mantha with 17.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 08:56 AM
  #458
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,559
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Is that an actual rumor going around or are we just spit-balling? moving back three to get an extra pick would be great, but I imagine it would cost at least the second rounder as well. Trade 11 and 41 for 14 and 17. I'd do it, not so sure CBJ would though. Could draft a D-man still with the 14th pick (one of Pulock, Haag, Morrissey, Morin, even Risto if he falls should still be around). With 17 you could be looking at Mantha, Domi, Lazar, or even doubling up on a Dman if someone else is still there.
Just spit-balling about moving back because Columbus owns multiple 1st rounders.

LegionOfDoom91 is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 11:05 AM
  #459
Psuhockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Just spit-balling about moving back because Columbus owns multiple 1st rounders.
I doubt the Flyers would be able to obtain two picks in the teens by dropping a few spots. After the top 7 or 8, opinions start to vary enough on rankings that the player at 11 would be just as worth the player available at 14, unless of course one of those top guys falls and then is it even worth trading the pick. If the Flyers were willing to move back to the late teens or early 20's with Calgary or Columbus, they might be able to snag a really late first rounder for such a move which would be fine by me. When drafting defensemen, it is always better to draft in bulk since they are so hard to predict.

Psuhockey is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 11:22 AM
  #460
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,559
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I doubt the Flyers would be able to obtain two picks in the teens by dropping a few spots. After the top 7 or 8, opinions start to vary enough on rankings that the player at 11 would be just as worth the player available at 14, unless of course one of those top guys falls and then is it even worth trading the pick. If the Flyers were willing to move back to the late teens or early 20's with Calgary or Columbus, they might be able to snag a really late first rounder for such a move which would be fine by me. When drafting defensemen, it is always better to draft in bulk since they are so hard to predict.
It depends where the Rangers and Kings 1st rounders end up. If the Rangers end up winning tonight both their picks will be somewhere in the 23-30 range. If they lose and get the 17th pick then it will likely be that pick and 2nd rounder unless the Kings make a run. Of course this all hypothetical.

LegionOfDoom91 is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 11:37 AM
  #461
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,548
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I doubt the Flyers would be able to obtain two picks in the teens by dropping a few spots. After the top 7 or 8, opinions start to vary enough on rankings that the player at 11 would be just as worth the player available at 14, unless of course one of those top guys falls and then is it even worth trading the pick. If the Flyers were willing to move back to the late teens or early 20's with Calgary or Columbus, they might be able to snag a really late first rounder for such a move which would be fine by me. When drafting defensemen, it is always better to draft in bulk since they are so hard to predict.
Idk. I could see a team moving up if there is a guy they specifically want. The #11 pick won't get you two picks, but the #11 plus something else might if the guy the BJs want is there at #11. As has been stated here ad nauseum, teams value guys differently in the draft. If Pulock is available at #11 and that is the guy CBJ wants and he is ranked atop their board, I could easily see them dealing two of their picks to nab him. Of course, the situation has to be right. I don't see that trade going down before the draft, it would likely be when the Flyers are actually on the clock.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 12:31 PM
  #462
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 31,504
vCash: 50
not sure anyone will give up 2 late firsts for just the 11th overall. Seems like a huge overpayment to me.

GoneFullHextall is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 01:07 PM
  #463
Broad Street Elite
Registered User
 
Broad Street Elite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,363
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
not sure anyone will give up 2 late firsts for just the 11th overall. Seems like a huge overpayment to me.
Depends. If a Nichushkin type talent were there for some odd reason, a team might try to jump up to take him at 11. Then again, we'd be better off just taking him ourselves.

Broad Street Elite is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 01:10 PM
  #464
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 31,504
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Depends. If a Nichushkin type talent were there for some odd reason, a team might try to jump up to take him at 11. Then again, we'd be better off just taking him ourselves.
i think there is a formula used by teams when moving up in the draft. Some kind of points system where picks are on the board.

GoneFullHextall is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 01:34 PM
  #465
Roo Mad Bro
U havin a giggle m8?
 
Roo Mad Bro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,706
vCash: 500
According to http://myslu.stlawu.edu/~msch/sports..._NHL_Draft.pdf

that link, the 11th overall is valued at 535. The combination of the 14th and 17th pick is 851.

The Flyers high 2nd would almost have to be involved in that deal as well, and the Jackets 6th rounder makes up the difference.

11, 41 and 62 = 917

14, 17 and 165 = 926

That's what the trade would have to look like.

Roo Mad Bro is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 01:49 PM
  #466
Psuhockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
According to http://myslu.stlawu.edu/~msch/sports..._NHL_Draft.pdf

that link, the 11th overall is valued at 535. The combination of the 14th and 17th pick is 851.

The Flyers high 2nd would almost have to be involved in that deal as well, and the Jackets 6th rounder makes up the difference.

11, 41 and 62 = 917

14, 17 and 165 = 926

That's what the trade would have to look like.
If the early 2nd is necessary to pull it off, what's the benefit? The defenseman you get at the top of the 2nd might turn out to be better than the one at 17. I know you can say that about any pick and position, but for defensemen it is very true. Weber, Voynov, Faulk, Schultz, Subban, Keith were all taken in the 1st half of the 2nd round outperforming many of the defensemen chosen earlier. Forwards are a different story. If the Flyers are willing to trade down and the target is defensemen, it should be for more picks in the 1st two rounds rather then just to move up IMO. If the Flyers can drop down and get another 2nd rd pick, it would be worth it.

Psuhockey is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 01:52 PM
  #467
Tripod
Registered User
 
Tripod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,259
vCash: 500
If I had it my way, we would do the Couts deal that has been talked about with Dallas AND do a deal with Columbus.

Couts and our 2nd for Goligoski and #10
Then trade #10 to Columbus for #14 and their 2nd rounder #44

We could potentially add Goligoski, Risto, Pulock and Morin at the draft!!
I know it is far fetched, but man would that ever help out our defense in the next 2-10 years!!

Edit: Oh yeah, there was a Carolina fan that would do McBain for a 3rd!! I would do that too then look to deal a d-man...like Mez.
And yes, this is a pipe-dream...just wishful thinking on ideas we could try and pull off


Last edited by Tripod: 05-13-2013 at 02:04 PM.
Tripod is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 01:59 PM
  #468
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,548
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Well heres the thing about De Rose from what I read. Two way forward who's game will most likely be suited for a 3rd line crash and banger. Considered a safe player in the draft. Most likely not a top 6 player but a solid 3rd line winger. In that area I'd also look at Artturi Lehkonen. Offensive forward, great hands and reads the play well. Only knockback is he is "only" 5'11 and is average skater (not a bad skater just not flashy). Played in a mens league putting up 30 points in 45 games as a 17 yr old.
That's totally fine with me. A solid third line winger is not something to scoff at. In a couple years a line of De la Rose-Laughton-McGinn could be pretty scary. De la Rose can probably work on his offense and use his size put up solid third line numbers. Laughton will hopefully put on a little weight by then, and we've seen what McGinn can do with minimal experience. If they all continue to develop that would be a more than acceptable third line. If they all continue to develop...

DrinkFightFlyers is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 04:17 PM
  #469
DeflatedFootball7
Registered User
 
DeflatedFootball7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Belleville
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,946
vCash: 500
Watched Canada Slovenia today and I still think Gracnar is worth a pick in later rounds. So calm, even with Giroux and Stamkos coming flying at him. Crawford couldn't stop talking about him.

DeflatedFootball7 is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 07:30 PM
  #470
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,559
vCash: 500
Here's Corey Pronman's top 250 rankings for 2013:

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1522

Write-up's for the top 15 are free. He's also posting in this thread if you have any questions for him.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3#post65970493


Last edited by LegionOfDoom91: 05-13-2013 at 07:39 PM.
LegionOfDoom91 is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 07:37 PM
  #471
MRxBLACK
ESPN Sucks
 
MRxBLACK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Northern PA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,027
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Here's Corey Pronman's top 250 rankings for 2013:

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1522

Write-up's for the top 15 are free.
PSU representing at 250. I hope he gets drafted.

MRxBLACK is online now  
Old
05-13-2013, 08:10 PM
  #472
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,559
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRxBLACK View Post
PSU representing at 250. I hope he gets drafted.
Their incoming goalie for next year Eamon McAdam will probably be drafted in the later rounds too.

LegionOfDoom91 is offline  
Old
05-13-2013, 11:15 PM
  #473
dingbathero
No Jam? How about PB
 
dingbathero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. John's, NL
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
Watched Canada Slovenia today and I still think Gracnar is worth a pick in later rounds. So calm, even with Giroux and Stamkos coming flying at him. Crawford couldn't stop talking about him.
Interesting read:
http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...ash=2090b88520

dingbathero is offline  
Old
05-14-2013, 05:17 AM
  #474
Psuhockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Their incoming goalie for next year Eamon McAdam will probably be drafted in the later rounds too.
Yup, he is ranked 212 on that list. He would be a perfect guy for the Flyers to draft. He is a pretty good prospect with decent size. He can develop slowly locally in what will be hands down the best hockey conference in the NCAA. By the time they have to sign him, Stolarz would be finishing up what would be his 3rd year in the AHL.

Psuhockey is offline  
Old
05-14-2013, 09:30 AM
  #475
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 13,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Here's Corey Pronman's top 250 rankings for 2013:

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1522

Write-up's for the top 15 are free. He's also posting in this thread if you have any questions for him.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3#post65970493
I would be ecstatic is Ryan Hartman falls to the Flyers in the second round.

He has him ranked 42, right around where we will be picking. Hopefully he falls there and we snatch him up.

Prongo is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:51 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.