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The Rumours and Speculation Thread #4

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Old
05-14-2013, 02:11 PM
  #776
FLYERSFAN18
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Realistically what would we have to add to our first round pick to get shattenkirk?

Edit: what would be fair value

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05-14-2013, 02:13 PM
  #777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Come on. Voracek isn't untouchable over a career year in a strike shortened season. I am not saying the Flyers *should* trade him, but if they were now would be the time to do it when his value likely isn't going to be any higher. He isn't going to continue to score on 17% of his shots. If Voracek gets you Pietrangelo you do it without blinking.
Voracek has been playing more or less at that level since latter half of last season too. Just saying...

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05-14-2013, 02:19 PM
  #778
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Flyers develop a prospect, who at times dominated the ice with sheer strength of skating, muscling guys off him with his body, and showing wildly impressive puck handling skills. A guy who makes everyone around him better, and re-elevated the Captain's game, given the Flyers first line their swag back.

Flyers fans: "TRADE HIM."

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05-14-2013, 02:26 PM
  #779
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Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
Voracek has been playing more or less at that level since latter half of last season too. Just saying...
Yup, I can't remember the exact stats but I remember seeing he's been close to a PPG player since the second half of last year (including playoffs) into this year.

I wouldn't call this year a fluke. I would lean more towards progression being the likely factor.

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Old
05-14-2013, 03:04 PM
  #780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
Realistically what would we have to add to our first round pick to get shattenkirk?

Edit: what would be fair value
See the Blues are a strange team to deal with. They aren't looking for youth or prospects and they are trying to contend. They just might run into problems with their budget. I would look for Read as part of the package because he gives them a young, cheap player who can contribute 40-45 points a year. He probably could be retained in St Louis as well.

Also I would never offer sheet Shattenkirk. If we offer sheet him at 6 million per year we are giving 4 first rounders up for him. He isn't worth that. Pietrangelo is a much better target, because his salary is expected to be north of 6-6.5 million. I see him signing in the 7 range, maybe slightly more with the new restrictions.

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05-14-2013, 04:06 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
See the Blues are a strange team to deal with. They aren't looking for youth or prospects and they are trying to contend. They just might run into problems with their budget. I would look for Read as part of the package because he gives them a young, cheap player who can contribute 40-45 points a year. He probably could be retained in St Louis as well.

Also I would never offer sheet Shattenkirk. If we offer sheet him at 6 million per year we are giving 4 first rounders up for him. He isn't worth that. Pietrangelo is a much better target, because his salary is expected to be north of 6-6.5 million. I see him signing in the 7 range, maybe slightly more with the new restrictions.
I would love to get Pietrangelo, I just really do not see it happening. I would offersheet him but I think they match. I would even go as high as 8.5 per. That is a lot but to finally get a #1 guy I would do it. Much easier to find those 2-5 guys.

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05-14-2013, 04:39 PM
  #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Flyers develop a prospect, who at times dominated the ice with sheer strength of skating, muscling guys off him with his body, and showing wildly impressive puck handling skills. A guy who makes everyone around him better, and re-elevated the Captain's game, given the Flyers first line their swag back.

Flyers fans: "TRADE HIM."
Top line winger < Top pairing defenseman

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05-14-2013, 05:10 PM
  #783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Top line winger < Top pairing defenseman
Voracek has a good chance to be a great player. It would be extremely risky to give up on such a talent in a one for one deal or something close to that. It would make more sense to build around Voracek. Would anyone seriously trade Voracek straight up for Shattenkirk or Edler or Bogosian? That would be insane.

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05-14-2013, 05:15 PM
  #784
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Make Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds,Schenn, Schenn and Couts basically untouchable. Only trade Couts if it is in a package for a true #1 dman. Everyone else should be available for upgrading the roster. We need to keep these young guys and let them grow together

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05-14-2013, 09:23 PM
  #785
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If I had it my way, we would do the Couts deal that has been talked about with Dallas AND do a deal with Columbus.

Couts and our 2nd for Goligoski and #10
Then trade #10 to Columbus for #14 and their 2nd rounder #44

We could potentially add Goligoski, Risto, Pulock and Morin at the draft!!
I know it is far fetched, but man would that ever help out our defense in the next 2-10 years!!

Edit: Oh yeah, there was a Carolina fan that would do McBain for a 3rd!! I would do that too then look to deal a d-man...like Mez.
And yes, this is a pipe-dream...just wishful thinking on ideas we could try and pull off

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05-14-2013, 09:28 PM
  #786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitstifier View Post
Voracek has a good chance to be a great player. It would be extremely risky to give up on such a talent in a one for one deal or something close to that. It would make more sense to build around Voracek. Would anyone seriously trade Voracek straight up for Shattenkirk or Edler or Bogosian? That would be insane.
I don't know that I would do it for Edler or Bogo, but if what people are saying about Shattenkirk is true (#1 D-man potential) I think I would definitely consider it.

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05-15-2013, 12:54 AM
  #787
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I really like Jake, but if dealing him is required to land a #1 defenseman then you have to do it. I am frightened to think what the defense looks like when Timonen retires. Actually I dont want to think about it.

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05-15-2013, 06:46 AM
  #788
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I don't think we can afford to trade anyone from our top six for defense, it'll just create a hole to fill another one; we don't have any young top six forwards to step in

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05-15-2013, 06:49 AM
  #789
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
I really like Jake, but if dealing him is required to land a #1 defenseman then you have to do it. I am frightened to think what the defense looks like when Timonen retires. Actually I dont want to think about it.
The biggest problem is that every team in the league knows the Flyers are going to be on the hunt for defensemen, so you can bet the asking price will be incredibly high. If Jake is the asking price for a guy like Edler or Shattenkirk, they need to step away. The Flyers are better off drafting a defenseman and then letting him develop.

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05-15-2013, 07:10 AM
  #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDu View Post
I don't think we can afford to trade anyone from our top six for defense, it'll just create a hole to fill another one; we don't have any young top six forwards to step in
Laughton and Akeson could move in on the 3rd/4th lines and hopefully Brayden Schenn/Coots have a bounce back year... I don't want to trade Jake though unless its for a future Hall of Famer

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Old
05-15-2013, 08:00 AM
  #791
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I would trade Voracek for Pietro (if he was signed), but not for Shatty. I think Shatty would be perfect for the Flyers but he's not a franchise d-man or a true #1, just someone who would complement our stay at home d-men very well.

I think we're aiming a little too high right now. We aren't going to be able to replace Pronger this offseason, let's try to replace Carle.

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05-15-2013, 09:15 AM
  #792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
Realistically what would we have to add to our first round pick to get shattenkirk?

Edit: what would be fair value
Established young Top-6 winger like Simmonds or Voracek.
Or maybe a more unproven but high ceiling forward prospect like Schenn or Couts.

It is not completely ruled out that a package could be tied around two 'second tier' Veterans like Talbot and Coburn/Grossmann, an unpolished far-away prospect like Ghost or Cousins, plus some lower picks (2nd or 3rd round) to sweeten the pot a little. It would certainly depend on who they like on our current roster and how they rate Shattenkirk's contract situation.


Last edited by dats81: 05-15-2013 at 09:25 AM.
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05-15-2013, 10:03 AM
  #793
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The reality of the situation is that the Flyers won't be upgrading their defense this summer without a severe overpayment in picks and prospects, which include Couturier and B. Schenn, or with an established productive forward like Simmonds or Voracek. Phoenix wanted Couturier, Read, and a 1st rd pick for Yandle. There is no pressure to win in Phoenix so there is no reason that price will go down. Shattenkirk and Elder are on teams trying to win the cup now. Picks and or Couturier/B.Schenn do not help that cause. The Flyers wil either have to sign a free agent, like Streit or Hainsey, or do a prospect for prospect swap kind of like the JVR for L. Schenn deal where two players who haven't established themselves yet were traded for positional need. The best bet IMO is to build thru the draft. Timonen-L.Schenn, Gus-Coburn, Grossman-Mezz isn't a terrible defense if they stay healthy; the Flyers probably make the playoffs this year if it was an 82 game season even with the injuries. Sign a veteran winger or two and trade Read for a good nhl ready defensive prospect.

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Old
05-15-2013, 10:22 AM
  #794
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Couturier for Gardiner straight up is what the Flyers should entertain.

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Old
05-15-2013, 10:36 AM
  #795
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Couturier for Gardiner straight up is what the Flyers should entertain.
After watching Malkin dominate these playoffs, Couturier should not be traded.

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Old
05-15-2013, 10:44 AM
  #796
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Couturier for Gardiner straight up is what the Flyers should entertain.
I'm not sure if I'd trade Laughton for Gardiner at this point.

11th? Maybe.

Definitely not Couturier.

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05-15-2013, 11:40 AM
  #797
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After watching Malkin dominate these playoffs, Couturier should not be traded.
Couturier for Hamonic?

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Old
05-15-2013, 12:23 PM
  #798
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Everyone here realizes that need to upgrade the D especially with Kimmo retiring after next year but no one wants to give up anything. We're not getting a number one D-man unless we draft one so we have to get a defensemen that we don't have, a puck mover. You are going to have to pay a little more to get a PMD just like you pay for pitching in baseball. There are not a lot of them and everyone wants one.

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05-15-2013, 12:27 PM
  #799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Couturier for Gardiner straight up is what the Flyers should entertain.
No way.

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Old
05-15-2013, 12:36 PM
  #800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
The biggest problem is that every team in the league knows the Flyers are going to be on the hunt for defensemen, so you can bet the asking price will be incredibly high. If Jake is the asking price for a guy like Edler or Shattenkirk, they need to step away. The Flyers are better off drafting a defenseman and then letting him develop.
Well like I said before i dont think Snider is patient enough to draft a defenseman and see if he turns into that #1. Maybe 10 years ago he is patient. now? I dont know.
That being said i agree with you the price would be very high. Nobody gives #1 defenseman away and the odds are that its probably not going to happen anyway unless the Flyers go the OS route.
I dont think Edler the defenseman they should be targeting anyway. Shattenkirk sure. The Blues have some decisions to make. they have their own internal cap so maybe if they put someone like Shattenkirk on the block the price would not require Voracek.

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