HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Prospects
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

2011 Re-draft

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-13-2013, 07:10 AM
  #76
Pitlick*
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,134
vCash: 500
Why do some overrate Hamilton? Yes, he has lots of potential, but doesn't look so great right now. Didn't they dress Bartkowski ahead of him? Yes, d-men take longer to develop, but Cowen played regularly at the same age in the playoffs. He could be a #1 d-man (ceiling), but his floor is a Franson, or even a Wiercioch. Brodin has to be way ahead of Dougie (I think the B's blew it here). He is skinny and weak, what if his body isn't capable of adding lots of muscle? Mika Z should be higher, as he is playing better now, and is seen as the most raw of the picks (meaning very high undeveloped upside). I think Dougie becomes a solid #2.

Also having guys that haven't made the NHL yet above these 3 is crazy. Who knows how great Zibby, Hamilton, or Brodin would be in the OHL this year?

Lucky for Leaf trade watchers the B's didn't end up with Hall and Brodin, then they would lose Kessel trade for sure.

Pitlick* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 07:21 AM
  #77
Sparksrus3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,086
vCash: 500
It would appear after reading this thread that Ryan Strome was a reach by the isles at number5.
He had I think a very good season and got better on d.any thoughts out there? If I remember back the year before I think Nino was thought to be a reach also picked at 5. Does the masses believe
Strome is at a level below those picked around him? Could we have traded down to get him like josh Bailey in 08.

Sparksrus3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 07:42 AM
  #78
DKQ
Generic User Title
 
DKQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Press Box
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparksrus3 View Post
It would appear after reading this thread that Ryan Strome was a reach by the isles at number5.
He had I think a very good season and got better on d.any thoughts out there? If I remember back the year before I think Nino was thought to be a reach also picked at 5. Does the masses believe
Strome is at a level below those picked around him? Could we have traded down to get him like josh Bailey in 08.
I wouldn't say he was a reach, or that he is a disappointing prospect at all, just that he has proven much less at the NHL level than many other players from this draft, which a lot of people (including me) value more highly in ranking prospects than the very abstract concept of "potential".

DKQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 09:35 AM
  #79
Jacko95
Registered User
 
Jacko95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,080
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CowbellConray View Post
Palat probably goes in the later part of the second round in a redraft. Namestnikov is a 1st round second round tweener. Could go either way. Kucherov jumps up to the top 25.

I cant rank Palat higher becuase he was an overager. He's already 22, three years older than some people in the draft.

But a strong draft for tampa either way.
Would be interesting to hear your reasoning for Palat in the later part of the 2nd round. I would see him as a 1/2 round tweener jsut like Namestnikov. After all he was a leading scorer in the AHL (would be top ten without his NHL stint), while being more of a shutdown player than an offensive superstar. So he is a great two-way player in the A and will be at least a 3rd line shutdown guy in the NHL, while making quit some points (could see him around 30 maybe more). And that's him now, nobody can say if his development will go even further. He was already up for a 24p season, while playing 11min a night.

Jacko95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 09:52 AM
  #80
Dan-o16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKQ View Post
I wouldn't say he was a reach, or that he is a disappointing prospect at all, just that he has proven much less at the NHL level than many other players from this draft, which a lot of people (including me) value more highly in ranking prospects than the very abstract concept of "potential".
Potential isn't abstract at all. Scouts aren't philosophers or mathematicians. They make projections based on what they see. Projections are real-world testable, nothing in the least abstract about them. When someone sees Baertschi's 20 games in the league, they're also making projections. Heck, when I've seen Couturier's 100+ games in the league, I can make projections.

My opinion is that Strome is going to be an elite power play performer almost immediately. He plays the left high-boards brilliantly, which if you've watched the Islanders, is something they've completely lacked. Based on that alone, I think he'll offensively outperform next year a lot of these guys mentioned ahead of him, because he'll be expected to fill exactly that role where he's most likely to succeed.

Dan-o16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 09:57 AM
  #81
Dan-o16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparksrus3 View Post
It would appear after reading this thread that Ryan Strome was a reach by the isles at number5.
He had I think a very good season and got better on d.any thoughts out there? If I remember back the year before I think Nino was thought to be a reach also picked at 5. Does the masses believe
Strome is at a level below those picked around him? Could we have traded down to get him like josh Bailey in 08.
I remember reading, possibly from a NYI poster (bluechipbonzo?) who is an Ottawa resident who hangs out at their arena all the time, that the Senators would have taken Strome with the next pick. Can an Ottawa fan confirm this?

Dan-o16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 09:59 AM
  #82
Pilgore88
Registered User
 
Pilgore88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: East Coast
Posts: 3,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
I remember reading, possibly from a NYI poster (bluechipbonzo?) who is an Ottawa resident who hangs out at their arena all the time, that the Senators would have taken Strome with the next pick. Can an Ottawa fan confirm this?
Sens wanted Strome at 6

Pilgore88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 10:31 AM
  #83
Marvelous Manked
Ooh to be a Gooner
 
Marvelous Manked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sudbury/Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,338
vCash: 50
I think a lot of you will be surprised at how good Mika Zibanejad is. Nothing wrong with having Brodin or Larsson over him, but still.

JoeyMoss had him at 10th (sorry can't quote)? That's a real good indicator that you haven't watched him. There's no reason Ryan Strome should be ahead of him.

Marvelous Manked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 10:11 PM
  #84
CowbellConray
Registered User
 
CowbellConray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacko95 View Post
Would be interesting to hear your reasoning for Palat in the later part of the 2nd round. I would see him as a 1/2 round tweener jsut like Namestnikov. After all he was a leading scorer in the AHL (would be top ten without his NHL stint), while being more of a shutdown player than an offensive superstar. So he is a great two-way player in the A and will be at least a 3rd line shutdown guy in the NHL, while making quit some points (could see him around 30 maybe more). And that's him now, nobody can say if his development will go even further. He was already up for a 24p season, while playing 11min a night.
Palat is already 22. He was drafted as an overager. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but he has less room to develop compared to other prospects. 4 points in 14 games is good for a 20 year old, but he is already a few years above most other draftees. 2011 is a deep draft, and I could list off several prospects who aren't in the NHL yet like Palat, but are only 19 or 20 and have more upside in my opinion.

I'm not taking anything away from him, as Palat is a good player. However right now, there are a few players that I think will be better than him in the long run. So yes, in a redraft I will rank him around 45-60. I dont see any other upside then maybe a 3rd line forward. Doesn't have the skill to be a top 6 player, and is a decent possibility to be a third line forward.

CowbellConray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-13-2013, 10:48 PM
  #85
bsmith14
Registered User
 
bsmith14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,489
vCash: 500
Theres no reason why Huberdeau or Landeskog should be ahead of RNH.

bsmith14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 01:10 AM
  #86
jmelm
HFBoards Sponsor
 
jmelm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,409
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by idiroft View Post
Hey guys, where would you rank Rickard Rakell as of right now? He went #30. Would he be lower or higher today?
He would still be top-30, IMO, and I'm surprised he didn't go slightly higher in that draft. Definitely in the late 20s, but still a top-30 pick (would supplant a guy like Danault, for example)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
Where would you guys rank Pageau, from an unbiased position? (I am a Sens fan, and do not want that to cloud my judgement)
Way too small a sample size to say. Yes, he's been a great surprise for OTT and you should have (tempered) excitement about him, but it's far too early and small a sample to draw significant conclusions. It's not exactly like he was totally dominating the AHL either, so you can't totally use that as inference.

jmelm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 03:19 AM
  #87
Hossa
Registered User
 
Hossa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Abroad
Posts: 9,223
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitlick View Post
Why do some overrate Hamilton? Yes, he has lots of potential, but doesn't look so great right now. Didn't they dress Bartkowski ahead of him? Yes, d-men take longer to develop, but Cowen played regularly at the same age in the playoffs. .
Check your math again. When Cowen was Hamilton's age (2010-11) he didn't play a game for the Sens. The only NHL game Cowen played as a junior-aged player was one game on emergency call-up in 2009-10.

Hossa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 04:05 AM
  #88
gudzilla
Registered User
 
gudzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewster View Post
Yeah no.

Hopkins had a tough year this year playing on a shoulder that needed operation. Definitely no reason for alarm and certainly no reason to put JG flippin' Pageau ahead of him.

He's still the most promising and talented player from the 2011 draft and the one who has had the most impact on the league to this point, like it or not.
Didn't Pageau just win senators a series? That's way more than giving Oilers an annual chance to win the lottery...

gudzilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 08:42 AM
  #89
DKQ
Generic User Title
 
DKQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Press Box
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dej View Post
Didn't Pageau just win senators a series? That's way more than giving Oilers an annual chance to win the lottery...
Come on, he turned a win into a blowout. Anderson won them the series, not Pageau

DKQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 08:52 AM
  #90
gudzilla
Registered User
 
gudzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKQ View Post
Come on, he turned a win into a blowout. Anderson won them the series, not Pageau
Pageau was solid, but sure. He didn't win them the series but he was a big part of it. RNH's biggest achievement is losing the Calder to injury and making his team a perennial lottery contender.

gudzilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 09:26 AM
  #91
Daley Tarasenkshow
#hateonbackes
 
Daley Tarasenkshow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: St. Louis MO
Country: United States
Posts: 3,647
vCash: 1075
I don't think any team takes Brodin over Dougie.

Daley Tarasenkshow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 11:40 AM
  #92
CowbellConray
Registered User
 
CowbellConray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dej View Post
Pageau was solid, but sure. He didn't win them the series but he was a big part of it. RNH's biggest achievement is losing the Calder to injury and making his team a perennial lottery contender.
This is a crazy statement. RNH will be twice the player Pageau is. RNH scored 52 points in 62 games last year, and has the upside to be a PPG player in the NHL. Pageau is at best a 2nd/3rd line tweener.

Dont be crazy. RNH is clearly the better player now and in the future.

CowbellConray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 11:48 AM
  #93
bsmith14
Registered User
 
bsmith14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,489
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dej View Post
Pageau was solid, but sure. He didn't win them the series but he was a big part of it. RNH's biggest achievement is losing the Calder to injury and making his team a perennial lottery contender.
RNH was the best player on this years WJC team, put up .85ppg in the NHL last year, improved defensively this year, and plays against teams top defense and top centers. He didnt improve offensively this year but he was also playing hurt the majority/whole season. Your delusional if you think any GM would take Pageau over RNH at this point in time.

bsmith14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 04:38 PM
  #94
Trafalgar Law
Waive Dallas Eakins
 
Trafalgar Law's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dej View Post
Pageau was solid, but sure. He didn't win them the series but he was a big part of it. RNH's biggest achievement is losing the Calder to injury and making his team a perennial lottery contender.
Stop posting please, you're delusional if you think Pageau is more valuable than RNH.

Trafalgar Law is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 04:50 PM
  #95
gudzilla
Registered User
 
gudzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
Stop posting please, you're delusional if you think Pageau is more valuable than RNH.
They said RNH was more valuable so far in their career, which I disagree with. Over their career it will most likely be the opposite, but to say RNH have done more in NHL than Pagaeu is delusional and homering.

gudzilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 05:05 PM
  #96
dss97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dej View Post
They said RNH was more valuable so far in their career, which I disagree with. Over their career it will most likely be the opposite, but to say RNH have done more in NHL than Pagaeu is delusional and homering.
Oh dear..

There is one player from the 2011 draft that you can make a legitimate argument for picking over RNH without coming off as a blatant Oiler hater and that is Landeskog, but even then I disagree.

dss97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 05:06 PM
  #97
Ashasx
Registered User
 
Ashasx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,691
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dej View Post
They said RNH was more valuable so far in their career, which I disagree with. Over their career it will most likely be the opposite, but to say RNH have done more in NHL than Pagaeu is delusional and homering.
wtf?

Ashasx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 05:09 PM
  #98
Jabba11
Hockey Lobby
 
Jabba11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,441
vCash: 500
God..it's been only two years and people already gave up on RNH. I don't like the Oilers, but RNH has delusional vision and hockey sense. Give him time to become more bigger..he'll be dominant.

Jabba11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 05:10 PM
  #99
gudzilla
Registered User
 
gudzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dss97 View Post
Oh dear..
Playoffs is what matters. Regular season? not so much. He haven't been able to carry his team to the playoffs. Pageau have been solid in playoffs.

I should have bolded the "and the one who has had the most impact on the league to this point, like it or not." and not the full sentence.

gudzilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-14-2013, 05:12 PM
  #100
CowbellConray
Registered User
 
CowbellConray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dej View Post
They said RNH was more valuable so far in their career, which I disagree with. Over their career it will most likely be the opposite, but to say RNH have done more in NHL than Pagaeu is delusional and homering.
But RNH HAS done more in the NHL... 52 points in 62 games his rookie year, and then playing against top competition (Top D-pairs and Forward lines) this year while still scoring 24 points in 40 games is better than Pageau.

Pageau has scored 4 points in 9 NHL games, and then scored PPG in the playoffs. However, he scored all three of his goals in one game. Even if you take away those goals, Ottowa wins 3-1. If you take that one game away, he scores 2 assists in 5 games. Then we arent even having this discussion. So I wouldnt really say his value to his team was as big as RNH's, even if you include Pageau's hat trick. He helped his team win 1 game. RNH was put on the worst team in the league and told "Let's put you on the top line and have you fed to the dogs every game."

Not to take anything away from Pageau, but two years ago Marc Andre Gragnani scored 6 points in 7 games in the first round of the playoffs against the Flyers. People were saying he was the next up and coming offensive Dman in the league. He is an AHL player and nothing more.

You cant say 14 games of Pageau is enough to say he is better than RNH who 1)Plays against tougher competition 2) Played 100 games at the NHL level and 3)Has still scored at a higher PPG then Pageau (.74 compared to .62)

Every argument you have for Pageau can be countered with actual statistics and facts.

CowbellConray is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:23 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.