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2011 Re-draft

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Old
05-14-2013, 05:19 PM
  #101
florida pwnthers
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Originally Posted by CowbellConray View Post
But RNH HAS done more in the NHL... 52 points in 62 games his rookie year, and then playing against top competition (Top D-pairs and Forward lines) this year while still scoring 24 points in 40 games is better than Pageau.

Pageau has scored 4 points in 9 NHL games, and then scored PPG in the playoffs. However, he scored all three of his goals in one game. Even if you take away those goals, Ottowa wins 3-1. If you take that one game away, he scores 2 assists in 5 games. Then we arent even having this discussion. So I wouldnt really say his value to his team was as big as RNH's, even if you include Pageau's hat trick. He helped his team win 1 game. RNH was put on the worst team in the league and told "Let's put you on the top line and have you fed to the dogs every game."

Not to take anything away from Pageau, but two years ago Marc Andre Gragnani scored 6 points in 7 games in the first round of the playoffs against the Flyers. People were saying he was the next up and coming offensive Dman in the league. He is an AHL player and nothing more.

You cant say 14 games of Pageau is enough to say he is better than RNH who 1)Plays against tougher competition 2) Played 100 games at the NHL level and 3)Has still scored at a higher PPG then Pageau (.74 compared to .62)

Every argument you have for Pageau can be countered with actual statistics and facts.
I never said he was better, I said he had a bigger impact. RNH will most likely be the better player for his whole career than Pageau, but until RNH actually brings Oilers into playoffs, I think helping a team win one game in playoffs means more than having a stellar regular season.

It's my personal opinion and I value playoffs over regular seasons and being a lottery team.

However, a case can be made about RNH:s regular season performance too. I'm just a sucker for playoffs and I'm probably wrong in most eyes, but my personal opinion is that having a good series in the playoffs is more than having a good regular season - having a hot run in the playoffs doesn't make you a better player, but it can make you one that have achieved more. Seguin played very few games the year they won the cup and I think he achieved more than T.Hall except Seguin haven't been suspended (iirc).

e/ also twax have played against him before he made it to the nhl

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Old
05-14-2013, 05:25 PM
  #102
SMantzas
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RNH should scare people because of his injury history. I know, I know, they were 'fluke' injuries, but he is a twig playing against men.

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05-14-2013, 05:28 PM
  #103
Joey Moss
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This is hilarious.. not just Pageau but the few Sens fans who have posted in here honestly believe Zibanejad should be ranked 2 or 4? Give me a break.

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05-14-2013, 05:34 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by dej View Post
Playoffs is what matters. Regular season? not so much. He haven't been able to carry his team to the playoffs. Pageau have been solid in playoffs.

I should have bolded the "and the one who has had the most impact on the league to this point, like it or not." and not the full sentence.
.. Except for the fact that he hasn't carried his team at all. He scored 3 goals in a blowout on a goalie that was a total sieve that game.


Last edited by dss97: 05-14-2013 at 05:45 PM. Reason: Referring to when you said Pageau won them the series
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Old
05-14-2013, 05:37 PM
  #105
TherapyforGlencross
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How can we "Re-draft" the 2011 draft when half of the players haven't even hit the NHL yet?

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05-14-2013, 05:39 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Classless Manked View Post
I think a lot of you will be surprised at how good Mika Zibanejad is. Nothing wrong with having Brodin or Larsson over him, but still.

JoeyMoss had him at 10th (sorry can't quote)? That's a real good indicator that you haven't watched him. There's no reason Ryan Strome should be ahead of him.
ohl coaches seem to think ryan strome is an absolutely amazing prospect and the best player in the league

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Old
05-14-2013, 05:44 PM
  #107
Joey Moss
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Originally Posted by Classless Manked View Post
I think a lot of you will be surprised at how good Mika Zibanejad is. Nothing wrong with having Brodin or Larsson over him, but still.

JoeyMoss had him at 10th (sorry can't quote)? That's a real good indicator that you haven't watched him. There's no reason Ryan Strome should be ahead of him.
No I have watched him, and honestly he's exceeded my expectations but it's a deep top 10 and I see a few more players ahead of him.

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05-14-2013, 06:29 PM
  #108
DKQ
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Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
ohl coaches seem to think ryan strome is an absolutely amazing prospect and the best player in the league
They think he's a better OHL player. Coaches judge based on current ability, not potential, which is why players like Locke, Azevedo and Akeson get award recognition over great prospects.

(Not saying Strome isn't a great prospect, but at this point he is nothing but potential)

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Old
05-14-2013, 06:29 PM
  #109
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Ok for the heck of it..


1. RNH
2. Landeskog
3. Huberdeau
4. Hamilton
5. Brodin
6. Saad
7. Zibanejad
8. Larsson
9. Couturier
10. Schiefele

HM: Strome, Klefbom, Jaskin, Shaw, Pageau

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Old
05-14-2013, 09:09 PM
  #110
MB94
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Originally Posted by DKQ View Post
1. RNH
2. Landeskog
3. Huberdeau
4. Larsson
5. Brodin
6. Saad
7. Zibanejad
8. Hamilton
9. Couturier
10. Baertschi
11. Strome
12. Scheifele
13. Klefbom
14. Gibson
15. Oullet
16. Oleksiak
17. Armia
18. Jaskin
19. Trocheck
20. Miller
21. Shaw
22. R. Murphy
23. Rattie
24. Morrow
25. Ritchie
26. Noesen
27. Sproul
28. Jensen
29. Harrington
30. Siemens
Dallas has 3 prospects in that top 30 .. Awesome!

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Old
05-14-2013, 09:21 PM
  #111
Jabba11
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No Beaulieu in top 15 is hilarious. The kid was the best defenseman for the Bulldogs this year.

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Old
05-15-2013, 12:36 AM
  #112
The Nuge
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Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
No Beaulieu in top 15 is hilarious. The kid was the best defenseman for the Bulldogs this year.
How is it ridiculous? He's not even in the top 5 for dmen from 2011

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Old
05-15-2013, 01:03 AM
  #113
BackhandToeyJoey
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Couturier isn't getting any love. Why?

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Old
05-15-2013, 01:15 AM
  #114
Jtown
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Originally Posted by BackhandToeyJoey View Post
Couturier isn't getting any love. Why?
yeah i was thinking the same thing.


I dont know how Larsson , Zibanejad, Strome, Brodin, or Hamilton can be ranked over him.

The only guys from this draft id have over him is a healthy RNH, Landeskog , and Huberdeau.

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05-15-2013, 01:38 AM
  #115
Kid Canesten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
yeah i was thinking the same thing.


I dont know how Larsson , Zibanejad, Strome, Brodin, or Hamilton can be ranked over him.

The only guys from this draft id have over him is a healthy RNH, Landeskog , and Huberdeau.
I don't know, maybe cause NHL gm's and scouts drafted the three bolded players before Couturier?

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Old
05-15-2013, 01:57 AM
  #116
Jtown
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Originally Posted by Kid Canesten View Post
I don't know, maybe cause NHL gm's and scouts drafted the three bolded players before Couturier?
The only thing we can base these ranking off of are by what we have seen. Scouts and Gm's have gotten it wrong plenty of times in the past.

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Old
05-15-2013, 09:56 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
yeah i was thinking the same thing.


I dont know how Larsson , Zibanejad, Strome, Brodin, or Hamilton can be ranked over him.

The only guys from this draft id have over him is a healthy RNH, Landeskog , and Huberdeau.
Those two have outright played better than Couturier so far. Larsson and Hamilton have performed at about equal levels, but both have a higher ceiling. Strome too has a higher ceiling, but Couturier has a higher floor, so it's just a matter of preference between the two.

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Old
05-15-2013, 11:00 AM
  #118
Jtown
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http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...defense-flyers

I think this puts Couturier in a more appreciable context. Because the Flyers are loaded at Center, Couturier is depended on primarily as the team's shutdown center getting the toughest minutes on the team and some of the toughest in the league.

Stats do not tell the whole story. Understanding the context of those stats will paint a more complete picture.

Zibanejad has the 4th highest ozone start in the league. Couturier has the 12th lowest ozone start in the league.

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05-15-2013, 01:13 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
Those two have outright played better than Couturier so far. Larsson and Hamilton have performed at about equal levels, but both have a higher ceiling. Strome too has a higher ceiling, but Couturier has a higher floor, so it's just a matter of preference between the two.
Couturier is doing a man's job defensively so far in his NHL career. Not sure you can say the same for Hamilton or Larsson, who've both gotten sheltered minutes instead.

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Old
05-15-2013, 01:39 PM
  #120
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No love for Frank Corrado getting into the 1st round?

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Old
05-15-2013, 01:41 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...defense-flyers

I think this puts Couturier in a more appreciable context. Because the Flyers are loaded at Center, Couturier is depended on primarily as the team's shutdown center getting the toughest minutes on the team and some of the toughest in the league.

Stats do not tell the whole story. Understanding the context of those stats will paint a more complete picture.

Zibanejad has the 4th highest ozone start in the league. Couturier has the 12th lowest ozone start in the league.
Fair enough. But you may wonder why the Flyers would give him these minutes while hampering his ability to develop offensively. Perhaps they don't believe he's got the upside?

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Old
05-15-2013, 01:50 PM
  #122
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How is it ridiculous? He's not even in the top 5 for dmen from 2011
Let me guess. Klefbom is way better, right ?

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Old
05-15-2013, 01:58 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Let me guess. Klefbom is way better, right ?
In terms of Dmen from the draft, Brodin, Larsson, Hamilton, Oleksiak and Klefbom are all better yes.

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Old
05-15-2013, 02:03 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
In terms of Dmen from the draft, Brodin, Larsson, Hamilton, Oleksiak and Klefbom are all better yes.
Brodin, Larsson and Hamilton no doubt.

Oleksiak I'll give, but not Klefbom. Will he be better further down the road ? Quite possibly. Is he better now ? No.

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Old
05-15-2013, 02:09 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Fair enough. But you may wonder why the Flyers would give him these minutes while hampering his ability to develop offensively. Perhaps they don't believe he's got the upside?
Laviolette did not care about developing Couturier this year. I don't know if Couturier has the 60-point potential you need to win a Selke, but he deserves a chance to play with quality wingers in 13-14.

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