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Old
05-09-2013, 08:54 AM
  #1
Hockeyfrilla
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New NHL agreement

Svenska ishockeyförbundet och NHL är överens om ett nytt avtal som sträcker sig över de kommande sju åren.

Quote:
Bland nyheterna märks en högre ersättning till de svenska klubbarna när en spelare går till NHL.

Avtalet gjordes klart under dagen i ett möte mellan hockeyförbundet och NHL:s chefsjurist Bill Daly som befinner sig i Stockholm under hockey-VM.

– Vi är överens och kommer att skriva på avtalet, säger förbundets vice ordförande Peter Forsberg till SVT Sport.

En annan nyhet, förutom mer pengar till klubbarna, är att spelarens senaste klubb i Sverige får ersättning vid en övergång till NHL, även om spelaren tar steget via nordamerikansk universitetshockey.

När exempelvis Carl Hagelin gick till New York Rangers från University of Michigan blev hans svenska klubb Södertälje helt utan pengar. I dag skulle man ha fått 25 000 dollar.

Avtalet, som skrivs på 4+3 år, gäller än så länge bara mellan Sverige och NHL men Peter Forsberg förväntar sig att resten av Europa kommer att skriva på.

– Jag är osäker på Ryssland, men övriga klubbar i Europa verka nöjda, säger han till SVT Sport.
http://www.svt.se/sport/ishockey/nytt-svenskt-nhl-avtal

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05-09-2013, 08:57 AM
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Sounds good. How much more money do the teams get?

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05-09-2013, 09:06 AM
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I det gamla avtalet fick svenska klubbar 225 000 dollar per spelare, oavsett hur många spelare som lämnade för NHL. Nu betalar NHL 240 000 dollar för de första tio spelarna som lämnar och sedan stiger priset till 325 000 dollar för varje spelare. Runt 2,1 miljoner kronor. Men ingen svensk klubb kommer att få mer än någon annan, utan det totala beloppet slås ihop och divideras sedan med antalet spelare som lämnat Sverige.
per sportbladet


Last edited by Hockeyfrilla: 05-09-2013 at 09:19 AM.
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05-09-2013, 09:41 AM
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10 players per year, I assume.

If Sweden ships over 20 players one summer, they'll get $240k x 10 + $325k x 10 = $5,65M / 20 = 282,5k per player.

A $60k increase per player is not huge but it's reasonable.

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05-14-2013, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
10 players per year, I assume.

If Sweden ships over 20 players one summer, they'll get $240k x 10 + $325k x 10 = $5,65M / 20 = 282,5k per player.

A $60k increase per player is not huge but it's reasonable.
I admit I think top first round picks should be worth more (300-400K dollars) but it's not like we Europeans have anything to bargain with or leverage (unlike some Russian posters seem to think).

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05-14-2013, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
I admit I think top first round picks should be worth more (300-400K dollars) but it's not like we Europeans have anything to bargain with or leverage (unlike some Russian posters seem to think).
The russian thread is funny, what do they expect us to do? Either we take this, or we get nothing.

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05-14-2013, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
The russian thread is funny, what do they expect us to do? Either we take this, or we get nothing.
They seem to think just saying "no" is going to send a message make the NHL think otherwise. It's worked ever so well with Russia/KHL so far... One can't help but think they've lost all sense of reality when they don't have to worry about balancing the books or making profit. That $240K is still worthy of one star player's salary.

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05-15-2013, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
The russian thread is funny, what do they expect us to do? Either we take this, or we get nothing.
Can not agree. Sweden has best assests from all euro leagues - the quality and quantity of players. Only thinking of swedish hockey federation is idiotic.

Easy, make player´s contracts with NHL out clauses and tranfer fee at least 0,5 mil USD or whatever they are worth. Like soccer, no problem. Dont worry, players/agents will get used to them immidiatelly.

Status quo is bad, bad for swedish hockey from long-term. If you dont understand it, it is just your problem.

KHL´ statements

Quote:
Cui bono? KHL issues response to RIHF proposal

From the moment of its inception, the Kontinental Hockey League has established itself as an equal partner with the National Hockey League in matters of player transfers. The Memorandum of Understanding signed two years ago to respect existing players’ contracts in each other’s leagues has been impeccably observed by both parties. This was a considerable achievement by the KHL, involving a fundamental change in its relationship with the NHL and preventing an exodus to North America of players who had existing contracts with KHL clubs. Since the signing of the above agreement there has not been a single instance of a player breaking the terms of his contract to pursue his career overseas, whereas in 2008 alone, due to the absence of such an agreement, Russian clubs lost the services of more than two dozen players who were nonetheless under contract. The relationship between the KHL and NHL is unique; nothing of its kind exists among any of the European leagues. The existing agreement acknowledges the equal validity of contracts in both leagues.

The proposal put forward by the Russian Ice Hockey Federation (RIHF) and European hockey leagues on behalf of the NHL would be a backward step. The agreement would grant the NHL the right to sign any European player – even one with an existing contract - for a set fee. Such an agreement would amount to an acceptance of NHL hegemony over European hockey and would undermine the validity of players’ contracts in the European hockey leagues. For the KHL such a plan is clearly unacceptable, and furthermore, in view of the existing contractual relationship with the NHL, the League sees no reason to even discuss the proposal.

In claiming that the NHL proposal offers financial benefits, and that the absence of such a plan has led to "missed profits," the RIHF is blatantly manipulating the figures. Had a similar proposal been accepted a decade ago, Russia may well have received to date a sum of 25 million USD, as around one hundred adult players have indeed left the country. However, there has also been the obvious and easily-documented expenditure by Russian clubs on the salaries of these players and their preparation for the Russian national team for the World Championships and Olympic Games. According to conservative estimates, over the five years of the KHL’s existence, this adds up to 43 billion (!) rubles, or in the RIHF’s preferred currency, more than $1.3 billion.

Indeed the real problem facing Russian hockey is the flood of juniors (i.e. players aged 18 or under who have not signed professional contract with any KHL club) to minor leagues in North America. These players find themselves on junior contracts and under the jurisdiction of the RIHF, yet the hockey schools who had nurtured these athletes until their departure do not receive any compensation, and KHL clubs are faced with a depleted pool of talented young players to add to their rosters.

One would imagine that this is the kind of problem which should be the object of the RIHF’s undivided attention, and the subject of that organization’s discussions with the IIHF and the Canadian and US hockey federations, under whose jurisdictions the North America minor leagues operate.
http://en.khl.ru/news/2013/5/14/25154.html

Btw, red part and the sum which russian clubs invested into development of players (including salaries) .. it is far from what NHL wants to pay. The same in Sweden.

Not everything is about money but about will and I can not see will of Swedes here. Sad, sad for Sweden, Europe

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05-15-2013, 08:44 AM
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No player would sign a contract with a fixed out clause sum as it would restrict their movement. From a club perspective it would turn into a competition of who offered the lowest fixed sum(or no sum), turning the whole process counterproductive.

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05-15-2013, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Like soccer, no problem. Dont worry, players/agents will get used to them immidiatelly.
Like soccer, you mean where a club pays 2-10 mil euros for the swedish stars? Yeah, that's comperable.

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Not everything is about money but about will and I can not see will of Swedes here. Sad, sad for Sweden, Europe
How can you contradict yourself so hard in 1 post?

Bottom line is: All swedish players wants to play in NHL. If we demanded too much money or made some redicilous term in the contracts, we'd lose players to AHL/CHL/Whatever american league way before they'd go play in the NHL.

You should be happy SEL does not demand crazy ammounts of cash for the KHL and NHL transfers, now KHL can keep signing the 2nd class players wanting an easy big salary.

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05-15-2013, 09:46 AM
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Who the hell is talking about KHL? I talked about health of swedish (euro) hockey.

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05-15-2013, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Who the hell is talking about KHL? I talked about health of swedish (euro) hockey.
You brought up KHL, in fact, 80% of your post is a KHL quote. I mentioned it as a very very very minor point in my post, a point that could be ignored. If you don't understand, google translate it?

NHL offers us money - we say no - NHL says fine - SEL loses more than they win.

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05-15-2013, 10:33 AM
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If Sweden refused to sign PTA, NHL would offer better conditions. Yep, not tommorow.

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05-15-2013, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
If Sweden refused to sign PTA, NHL would offer better conditions. Yep, not tommorow.
Oh it's all so clear now. Say no to things and better things will come your way. Man, why didn't we think of that before.




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05-15-2013, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Can not agree. Sweden has best assests from all euro leagues - the quality and quantity of players. Only thinking of swedish hockey federation is idiotic.

Easy, make player´s contracts with NHL out clauses and tranfer fee at least 0,5 mil USD or whatever they are worth. Like soccer, no problem. Dont worry, players/agents will get used to them immidiatelly.

Status quo is bad, bad for swedish hockey from long-term. If you dont understand it, it is just your problem.
You may think this was settled over night, but it took a year to get it done. If anything, the fact that almost all other European federations agreed on a deal they didn't even negotiate proves how important it is. No deal before the summer = players gone anyway = money lost that will never be seen again. In the case of some countries, it's the first time ever they have a transfer deal and get money for their lost players.

With your example we'd just see good Swedish juniors go straight to the CHL or AHL, never stepping their feet in the SEL. Your example is based around a non-existant scenario as far as Swedes are concerned. Swedish players want to play in the SEL, but they dream of playing in the NHL. Take away the smooth transfer rules SEL-NHL and players will look elsewhere. It's not in any shape or form comparable to how Russian players sees the KHL.

We(Swedes) should be happy to keep our juniors at home and make sure to take care of our development program, that's really important as far as I'm concerned. We've got something that's working and need to keep refining those areas. The next step is to get our kids to stay 1-2 years longer at home before going overseas, and I believe that will be the case with the four year player rights.

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05-15-2013, 05:21 PM
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joe89

You know that this PTA is step back and bad deal for Sweden from long-term point of view. No reason to advocate. End of story.

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05-15-2013, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
joe89

You know that this PTA is step back and bad deal for Sweden from long-term point of view. No reason to advocate. End of story.
You have no idea what you're talking about. End of story.

We got to choose, keep the young players for a little while, or see them leave for america asap.

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05-16-2013, 07:05 AM
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Vorky, you've got delusions of grandeur. You're not being realistic here. Cooperation would indeed be a good thing for European hockey, but as we've seen before that rarely works as good as you imply it would. We simply do not have the bargaining power to turn things around on the NHL. The current agreement isn't bad at all like many have pointed out. It has some great benefits for us. Let me quote joe89:
Quote:
We(Swedes) should be happy to keep our juniors at home and make sure to take care of our development program, that's really important as far as I'm concerned. We've got something that's working and need to keep refining those areas. The next step is to get our kids to stay 1-2 years longer at home before going overseas, and I believe that will be the case with the four year player rights.
To me, as a fan of Swedish hockey, it is more important to get our young players to stay longer in Sweden. For you, everything seems to be about the financial side. It is just absolutely hilarious to read the threads over at the KHL-subforum, because you guys think the solution to everything is to throw fat stacks of money onto whatever problem you are facing, and I can tell you that it'll never be the solution. But hey, you can keep on trying. You'll never be able to convince us of the greatness of the KHL by doing so.

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05-16-2013, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
We simply do not have the bargaining power to turn things around on the NHL.
as you said, that is not true and you know it. Btw, leaders of Swedish Ice Hockey Federation know it as well. Especially clubs. Do you want evidence? Here it is, Farjestad wanted much more than 200 000 USD for Salak. Why? Why nont let him go to SKA for free as Swedes go to NHL? Money man, all is about money, like it or not.

Simple, if Swedes/all euros support KHL point of view, the "bargaining power " would be reality tommorow.

I have an opinion that Swedes are ruining future of euro hockey.

One simple Q for you and other: Would you accept if NHL offered 1 mil USD per player?

If your repsense is NO, you are not saying truth. If the respense is YES, that means I am right.

I hope you read KHL´s statement and recommend you to read it again and again. Maybe you will get it.

btw.
Quote:
Yes, euro clubs does not have power to negotiate with NHL fair-fair, but these euro clubs should support KHL to have better position to NHL. Look, NHL is ready to negotiate with KHL fair-fair... with clubs like Slovan Bratislava as well. Why the hell, should not NHL act like to towards Finnish hockey federation etc as well? If they were united with KHL. Yep, I know why a few posters say idiotic statements here, but it does not mean that these idiotic statements are true.

United - I give you example how it works... Slovakia, Czech rep, Poland, Hungary have no power as isolated nation if negotiate with France/Germany/GB in EU organs. But, if they negotiate as Visegrád Group they have much more power. That is a sole example, I could find many examples of this kind.

Sad, but I have to share VladNYC´s point of view. Being on russian´s side is worse than everythin on Planet, so that is a reason why Finns/Swedes/Czechs etc behave like they behave.
Very important Q, is IIHF a sole subject of this new PTA? If not, you sure know why.

Man, I love Sweden and swedish ppl, but here you are contradicting yourself

Quote:
you guys think the solution to everything is to throw fat stacks of money onto whatever problem you are facing, and I can tell you that it'll never be the solution.
If money is not solution as you think, let all players to go to NHL (elsewhere) for FREE. Why does Swedes want money for releasing the guys? Why do they want money from NHL and KHL? Money is not solution, you said.

I dont say I am 100% you to know, but you are not as well. And we will see whose route is better.


Last edited by vorky: 05-16-2013 at 07:31 AM.
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05-16-2013, 12:53 PM
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Everyone accepts that. It is a pretty silly question, if you ask me. Here's the deal, I'd rather work with the devil that I know than to throw myself into the 'warm' embrace of the KHL. You may call me a fool for that, but I'm completely fine with that. I want a closer cooperation with the NHL, because I trust them and I like them. I do not have the same trust for Russia and the KHL. I'm fine with the hegemony of the NHL.

As for the money issue, if you read what I wrote more carefully you might realize that I did not say that money was a 100% unimportant. I was merely stating that I found it ridiculous that you who love the KHL see it as the way out. If you see a problem, your knee-jerk reaction to it is to throw money at it. It is not a sustainable way.

The new NHL agreement serves a good purpose for us. It gives us some compensation for the players that they take, and most importantly it will hopefully help us keep our young players in Sweden for one or two years longer. It is a small step, but it is satisfactory to me. I'd rather have that then no deal at all. That would be the worst thing that could ever happen to Swedish hockey.

Like you said though, there's no 100% sure way of knowing which option is the best, I just know that I prefer it this way because it has less risks and it is more beneficial for Swedish hockey.

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05-16-2013, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
If money is not solution as you think, let all players to go to NHL (elsewhere) for FREE. Why does Swedes want money for releasing the guys? Why do they want money from NHL and KHL? Money is not solution, you said.
How old are you? Because that post is playground level.

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05-17-2013, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
I'd rather work with the devil that I know than to throw myself into the 'warm' embrace of the KHL. You may call me a fool for that, but I'm completely fine with that. I want a closer cooperation with the NHL, because I trust them and I like them. I do not have the same trust for Russia and the KHL. I'm fine with the hegemony of the NHL.
And now ask yourself. Is this attitude the best for swedish hockey? What if NHL decided not to pay ANYTHING for Swedes? What if NHL and KHL make a deal not to pay for Swedes? What if KHL do something that Swedes would like to play here and swedish club will not get any money? Etc.. Man, I respect your opinion but you are homer and you are not objective... you need to understand what is going on, sad, you dont get it.

I am quoting you again
Quote:
We simply do not have the bargaining power to turn things around on the NHL
Sweden is a euro feeder for NHL. You would have "bargaining power" if you wanted, but leaders of swedish hockey dont know how to achieve it. It is hillarious if Sweden can not negotiate with NHL as fair partner... sad. NHL is using Sweden as "inteligent euro idiot" and you like it. Sure, your choice. Believe me, from long-term point of view is better to support KHL´s point of view towards PTA (not saying you must like KHL´s expansion). Grow up, ask money from NHL for your talents.


Last edited by vorky: 05-17-2013 at 01:18 AM.
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05-17-2013, 03:46 AM
  #23
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@Vorky

Go ahead and do it then. Come and kill us. You can criticize my standpoint all you like, but it all comes down to trust for me. I have more trust in the NHL than I do in the KHL, and that is the deciding factor. If we tore ourselves free from the NHL, we'd be under your hegemony instead, and I know what I'd prefer. You could say that we'd have bargaining power if we simply followed the KHL, but I fear that we'd lose more than we gain from it.

As for cooperation, that is something I want too, but I'm not willing to submit to a KHL-hegemony. I do not want what is most likely a corrupt organization to have any sort of control over Swedish hockey. I'm not that desperate for money, like you seem to be. There are so many other values that are more important to me (and to generalize here, to most Swedes), but you've never understood that. All you see is money, money, money.

You may call us idiots for wanting to have slow change, being old-fashioned and traditional, but we simply do not want to ruin something good. We do not want to tear something that we've built completely apart, just to set up something completely new that is soulless and plastic. We're NOT fools. We also see that things need to change, but we want some sort of control over it. We want

Let me just quote joe89, again, who put it all so perfectly. Read it. Read it several times if you need, because this is important, and you NEED to truly understand what he says:

Quote:
You may think this was settled over night, but it took a year to get it done. If anything, the fact that almost all other European federations agreed on a deal they didn't even negotiate proves how important it is. No deal before the summer = players gone anyway = money lost that will never be seen again. In the case of some countries, it's the first time ever they have a transfer deal and get money for their lost players.

With your example we'd just see good Swedish juniors go straight to the CHL or AHL, never stepping their feet in the SEL. Your example is based around a non-existant scenario as far as Swedes are concerned. Swedish players want to play in the SEL, but they dream of playing in the NHL. Take away the smooth transfer rules SEL-NHL and players will look elsewhere. It's not in any shape or form comparable to how Russian players sees the KHL.

We(Swedes) should be happy to keep our juniors at home and make sure to take care of our development program, that's really important as far as I'm concerned. We've got something that's working and need to keep refining those areas. The next step is to get our kids to stay 1-2 years longer at home before going overseas, and I believe that will be the case with the four year player rights.
Now, that'll be all from me. I've said everything I want to say in this matter. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Adieu.

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05-17-2013, 07:32 AM
  #24
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Certain posters keep on insisting Europeans would have bargaining power yet when asked what that is, all we hear is silence or they propose measures which are not realistic nor legal in our societies/countries.

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05-17-2013, 11:10 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Certain posters keep on insisting Europeans would have bargaining power yet when asked what that is, all we hear is silence or they propose measures which are not realistic nor legal in our societies/countries.
Certain posters have a hard time accepting almost all european countries couldn't care less about KHL and do not want to send our players there. How we can want them to play in NHL which is by far the best league in the world is beyond them, and they'll keep arguing for the sake of KHL even if they have no valid points.

In all honesty, it was amusing at first, now it's just old and borderline sad.

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