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2013 Draft Thread | "Falling Flat for Horvat"

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Old
05-14-2013, 08:02 PM
  #876
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
I hope your not one of the guys high on Nurse....
I'm not. I like Monahan, Nicushkin, Lazar, and Ristolainen at 7.


Last edited by stoff: 05-14-2013 at 08:09 PM.
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Old
05-14-2013, 08:04 PM
  #877
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
You seem to be really against taking Nurse.

I'm curious what you've seen from him that makes you dislike him so much.
I haven't seen much of him to be honest but I really don't see much from what I've seen of him. I see why people would be interested in him but honestly I don't think he has a lot of offensive potential and its questionable whether his physical play will transfer. I think Pulock's game will transfer easier. I haven't really seen Zadorov but he does have NHL size for a dman and apparently half decent skating. Like I said I haven't seen much of him. Ristolainen from my viewings at the WJC's looks like a solid two way defenceman, good first pass and half decent skating.

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05-14-2013, 08:09 PM
  #878
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Think he's pointing out that Nurse has questionable offense. Some scouts say he's improving in that area, but it's still a big question mark. Who knows if that will be part of his game when he cracks the NHL. Might end up as more of a shutdown guy.
Yeah, I figured...and I agree. Raab has taken a fairly vehement stance against Nurse in a few posts though and I'm curious if maybe he's seeing something I haven't.


As for Nurse's offense, to me, it's just a bonus even if I'm picking him at #7. I think he has the capability of being a 30+ point guy, but also to be a unique defensively dominating guy.

It's true you can get shutdown defenseman through FA or later on the draft, but there's very few defensemen in the league with Nurse's wingspan and skating and basically none with his wingspan, skating and nastiness.

If he comes close to his top-end potential, he'll be the type of defenseman that's impossible to pry away from other teams.

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05-14-2013, 08:13 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Yeah, I figured...and I agree. Raab has taken a fairly vehement stance against Nurse in a few posts though and I'm curious if maybe he's seeing something I haven't.


As for Nurse's offense, to me, it's just a bonus even if I'm picking him at #7. I think he has the capability of being a 30+ point guy, but also to be a unique defensively dominating guy.

It's true you can get shutdown defenseman through FA or later on the draft, but there's very few defensemen in the league with Nurse's wingspan and skating and basically none with his wingspan, skating and nastiness.

If he comes close to his top-end potential, he'll be the type of defenseman that's impossible to pry away from other teams.
I just don't understand why people are so high on him and not even talking about the other d men. From what I've seen, again very minimal compared to some guys on here. I just don't see him as being a guy you'd for sure take over the other d men available.

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05-14-2013, 08:24 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
I haven't seen much of him to be honest but I really don't see much from what I've seen of him. I see why people would be interested in him but honestly I don't think he has a lot of offensive potential and its questionable whether his physical play will transfer. I think Pulock's game will transfer easier. I haven't really seen Zadorov but he does have NHL size for a dman and apparently half decent skating. Like I said I haven't seen much of him. Ristolainen from my viewings at the WJC's looks like a solid two way defenceman, good first pass and half decent skating.
Ah, gotcha.

I'm not too worried about his offensive side. I wouldn't mind an Alzner/Seabrook at #7 and I think Nurse will be somewhere around them offensively.

I think the physical side of his game will translate, but it's just the question of how long until he can do it at the NHL level. He's a skinny kid now, but he'll probably have to put on about 20-25lbs before he can do it. I don't think that'll really be an issue especially as he naturally fills out with age.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
I just don't understand why people are so high on him and not even talking about the other d men. From what I've seen, again very minimal compared to some guys on here. I just don't see him as being a guy you'd for sure take over the other d men available.
It just comes down to potential for me.

He might be less NHL ready, but I think Nurse has a good bit higher ceiling and floor than the other two.

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05-14-2013, 08:36 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
Hmm well that is interesting. I thought for sure after listening to Stu that Nurse was #2. Stauffer did say they were high on a dman (out of Nurse, Zadarov and RR) but said he wouldn't say who...

I still want Monahan the most....

Not sure if drafting a defensive D in the top 10 is the smartest thing to do as L. Schenn example comes to mind but they would know better than us fans.
It surprised me as well, I personally like RR most there and nurse second then Zadarov (for D at least) not totally opposed To Zadarov just no my favorite. Hopefully watch him play some more in this memorial cup.

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05-14-2013, 10:54 PM
  #882
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Could Horvat be a potential pick at #7 if Monahan is gone?

So say the draft goes:
Jones
Mack
Drouin
Barkov
Lindholm
Monahan

Would the board be pissed if the Oilers didn't trade down and took Horvat or Lazar?

Just curious....

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05-14-2013, 10:59 PM
  #883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Ah, gotcha.

I'm not too worried about his offensive side. I wouldn't mind an Alzner/Seabrook at #7 and I think Nurse will be somewhere around them offensively.

I think the physical side of his game will translate, but it's just the question of how long until he can do it at the NHL level. He's a skinny kid now, but he'll probably have to put on about 20-25lbs before he can do it. I don't think that'll really be an issue especially as he naturally fills out with age.



It just comes down to potential for me.

He might be less NHL ready, but I think Nurse has a good bit higher ceiling and floor than the other two.
It's funny how you compare Nurse to Seabrook. I see a lot of Seabrook in RR as well. RR plays a North American game so I'm not too worried about this toughness, ability to play defence and rub people off the puck. I don't have my min 100% made up yet but I would rank them:

1. Jones
2. Nurse
3. Ristolainen
4. Zadorov
5. Pulock
6. Morrissey

I think Mueller and Theodore are wild cards as well.

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05-14-2013, 11:03 PM
  #884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
Could Horvat be a potential pick at #7 if Monahan is gone?

So say the draft goes:
Jones
Mack
Drouin
Barkov
Lindholm
Monahan

Would the board be pissed if the Oilers didn't trade down and took Horvat or Lazar?

Just curious....

I'd want Nichushkin in that scenario. If he says he plans to come to the NHL in 2 years, he's an easy choice at that point. Of course if he makes it clear he's coming to the NHL in 2 seasons, I highly doubt he is still available at #7... he's very likely a top 4/5 pick even with the "Russian factor" circling around him.

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Old
05-14-2013, 11:08 PM
  #885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
Could Horvat be a potential pick at #7 if Monahan is gone?

So say the draft goes:
Jones
Mack
Drouin
Barkov
Lindholm
Monahan

Would the board be pissed if the Oilers didn't trade down and took Horvat or Lazar?

Just curious....
I'd be really happy with one of them or Nurse in that spot.

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05-14-2013, 11:14 PM
  #886
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I think oilers either should trade up or just take a guy at 7.
Monahan
Lindholm
Nichushkin
Nurse
Ristolainen
Are the guys I look at at the 7th overall selection maybe not in that order but those are the 5 I look at most. The guys from the list above are guys who could fall their or will be around that pick.

Maybe throw zadorov's name in their but I am not as hi in him as some others.

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Old
05-14-2013, 11:19 PM
  #887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
It's funny how you compare Nurse to Seabrook. I see a lot of Seabrook in RR as well. RR plays a North American game so I'm not too worried about this toughness, ability to play defence and rub people off the puck. I don't have my min 100% made up yet but I would rank them:

1. Jones
2. Nurse
3. Ristolainen
4. Zadorov
5. Pulock
6. Morrissey

I think Mueller and Theodore are wild cards as well.
That is how I most often see them ranked.

Just not sure why the Oilers see Zadarov over Nurse & Ristolainen if no one else does.

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05-14-2013, 11:34 PM
  #888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
It's funny how you compare Nurse to Seabrook. I see a lot of Seabrook in RR as well. RR plays a North American game so I'm not too worried about this toughness, ability to play defence and rub people off the puck. I don't have my min 100% made up yet but I would rank them:

1. Jones
2. Nurse
3. Ristolainen
4. Zadorov
5. Pulock
6. Morrissey

I think Mueller and Theodore are wild cards as well.
There are some great D that will be available later that I think are comparable to #3 and on in your list just from the WHL:

Bowey
Heatherington
Mueller
Theodore
-------------
Not as good but interesting:
Diaby
Roy
Lewington
Betker
Geertsen
Hauf

Then add in Bigras, Subban and McCoshen from OHL and I think we can get a dmen(s) just as good in the 2nd rd.

And never seen the kid play (except for Canada recently) but the scouting report on Morin sounds super intriguing

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05-14-2013, 11:54 PM
  #889
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On Nurse jmo Was not Smid supposed to be a 30 point dman , I just think he is a risky pick. At 7th just Hope Monahan is there at 7 or swing a trade with Hurricanes and grab him at 5

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Old
05-15-2013, 12:41 AM
  #890
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
On Nurse jmo Was not Smid supposed to be a 30 point dman , I just think he is a risky pick. At 7th just Hope Monahan is there at 7 or swing a trade with Hurricanes and grab him at 5
Defencemen are always harder to judge but once they do pan out, they are almost impossible to acquire. I think I'm one of the biggest nurse fans on the board though. I truly think he do chances the entire dynamic of a defence core. He makes forwards fight for ice, sticks up for teammates and brings a lot of intangibles we don't have back their.

I dont think a lot seperates these guys. A lot of it is going to come down to what you look for in a defenceman. I mean last year I had defencemen ranked Trouba, O'Rielly, Reinhart and then Ceci but obviously that not how it broke down. An argument could be made for any of these guys to be moved shifted up and down the ranking.


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05-15-2013, 12:47 AM
  #891
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I'd be very happy with any of the discussed centers and Bowey

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05-15-2013, 12:50 AM
  #892
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Pretty sure Cam Barker was drafted by Chicago.
Oh, now people are gonna use "facts" against my argument? Typical!

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Old
05-15-2013, 01:07 AM
  #893
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Read a Matheson column that said Oil were interested in Zadorov as well.
Gross. I'd be quick to write-off the MacT era if that's how he starts it at #7.

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05-15-2013, 01:11 AM
  #894
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Yeah, I figured...and I agree. Raab has taken a fairly vehement stance against Nurse in a few posts though and I'm curious if maybe he's seeing something I haven't.


As for Nurse's offense, to me, it's just a bonus even if I'm picking him at #7. I think he has the capability of being a 30+ point guy, but also to be a unique defensively dominating guy.

It's true you can get shutdown defenseman through FA or later on the draft, but there's very few defensemen in the league with Nurse's wingspan and skating and basically none with his wingspan, skating and nastiness.

If he comes close to his top-end potential, he'll be the type of defenseman that's impossible to pry away from other teams.
raab has a point. Nurse is playing with that stud DET prospect in Ryan Sproul. Those numbers could be a product of his partner.

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05-15-2013, 01:15 AM
  #895
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Ah, gotcha.

I'm not too worried about his offensive side. I wouldn't mind an Alzner/Seabrook at #7 and I think Nurse will be somewhere around them offensively.

I think the physical side of his game will translate, but it's just the question of how long until he can do it at the NHL level. He's a skinny kid now, but he'll probably have to put on about 20-25lbs before he can do it. I don't think that'll really be an issue especially as he naturally fills out with age.



It just comes down to potential for me.

He might be less NHL ready, but I think Nurse has a good bit higher ceiling and floor than the other two.
Not even. If anything Nurse has that Seabrook-like potential, or even Risto. I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment with a guy like Zadorov. He's got great size and weight, but he's a bit slow, has limited puck skills, and his defensive awareness isn't that much better than a guy like Risto/Nurse.

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05-15-2013, 01:20 AM
  #896
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That Gregor write-up was pretty insightful. Monahan seems to have that mentality where he's ready to go up against big C's like Schiefele/Jenner. It's going to be that kind of game he'll need in the Pacific Division next year.

Both CGY/EDM would benefit from having a guy who prides himself on going head-to-head against C's like Kopitar/Thornton/Getzlaf.

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05-15-2013, 01:32 AM
  #897
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I'd be very happy with any of the discussed centers and Bowey
Agreed. From what I saw of Bowey at the U18s he was very impressive. Hope they can land him.

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05-15-2013, 01:36 AM
  #898
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
Not even. If anything Nurse has that Seabrook-like potential, or even Risto. I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment with a guy like Zadorov. He's got great size and weight, but he's a bit slow, has limited puck skills, and his defensive awareness isn't that much better than a guy like Risto/Nurse.
The comment you bolded was directed at Nurse.

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05-15-2013, 01:42 AM
  #899
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Agreed. From what I saw of Bowey at the U18s he was very impressive. Hope they can land him.
I'd be happy with him as well. He was their best dman in my viewings this year

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05-15-2013, 01:46 AM
  #900
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The comment you bolded was directed at Nurse.
My bad, totally misread it. The interesting thing about Nurse is he's visibly got that innate athleticism where you wonder what he'll be in 2-3 years as he fills out. It adds an element of unpredictability to his game.

Kind of like Roman Polak - on the surface he's just another defensive defenseman with a huge body. But he's actually quite athletic and has a surprising ability to beat guys in races to the puck, make finesse moves with the puck, and add more velocity to his hits.

Nurse is obviously on another level athletically/stylistically though.

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