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2013 Draft Thread | "Falling Flat for Horvat"

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Old
05-15-2013, 03:39 AM
  #901
Soundwave
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Nurse reminds me of a guy who'd be on the 80s Oilers (outside of the Gretzky-Mess-Kurri-Anderson core).

Big, mean, and can chip in offensively.

I'm not saying that's enough to warrant picking him, but that's just what I thought of when I see him play. There's a difference between "tough" and "mean" also.

Smid and a few others on our roster are "tough". But no one is really "mean".

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05-15-2013, 03:41 AM
  #902
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If Monahan and Lindholm are gone before our pick and Nichushkin is too much of a risk for MacGregor, I wouldn't mind Horvat at all. He's finally getting the credit he deserves. I said it before that I think he should be getting top 10 discussion. I'd prefer him over Lazar.

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Old
05-15-2013, 03:45 AM
  #903
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I hate to say it, but I'm really not expecting a whole lot from this pick. I don't have faith in our brain trust that they know what they're doing outside of an obvious gimme no.1 overall pick.

The only pick that's really turned up roses for them outside of the no.1 selections has been the Eberle pick and that was probably more of a fluke than anything, maybe the hockey gods giving us a break for the Pronger trade.

I'm skeptical of Mac T/Lowe's "bold move" talk in general, this is the same group that let Glencross walk, dealt away Torres for Brule, and then Pitkanen on an RFA contract for Erik Cole, a pending UFA.

They're probably going to end up doing something stupid in the summer now that they're feeling heat even from the usually coddling Edmonton media.

Knowing the track record here they will likely trade the pick for a "veteran d-man" who will be gone from the organization in 1-2 years or make the pick based on odd criteria (ie: size or need) and watch the pick disappoint.


Last edited by Soundwave: 05-15-2013 at 04:01 AM.
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05-15-2013, 04:03 AM
  #904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I hate to say it, but I'm really not expecting a whole lot from this pick. I don't have faith in our brain trust that they know what they're doing outside of an obvious gimme no.1 overall pick.

The only pick that's really turned up roses for them outside of the no.1 selections has been the Eberle pick and that was probably more of a fluke than anything, maybe the hockey gods giving us a break for the Pronger trade.

I'm skeptical of Mac T/Lowe's "bold move" talk in general, this is the same group that let Glencross walk, dealt away Torres for Brule, and then Pitkanen on an RFA contract for Erik Cole, a pending UFA.

They're probably going to end up doing something stupid in the summer now that they're feeling heat even from the usually coddling Edmonton media.
37 pages in and you dropped the bomb that we all had in the back of our heads.

Nothing is going to change. This team is fundamentally unsound in the way it was built, the way it is built, and the way it's going to continue to be built.

Drafting forwards before defense. Drafting wingers before centers. One-dimensional skill rather than multi-faceted excellence.

I just don't see how this ship gets righted, especially with the same management group.

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05-15-2013, 04:07 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
37 pages in and you dropped the bomb that we all had in the back of our heads.

Nothing is going to change. This team is fundamentally unsound in the way it was built, the way it is built, and the way it's going to continue to be built.

Drafting forwards before defense. Drafting wingers before centers. One-dimensional skill rather than multi-faceted excellence.

I just don't see how this ship gets righted, especially with the same management group.
Actually I disagree, I don't believe there is some "formula" to building any team the proper way. You pick the best talent.

We'd be even worse right now if we had taken Adam Larsson over Ryan Nugent Hopkins and we'd be crying ourselves to sleep watching Taylor Hall playing a pivotal role in taking the Bruins to the Cup (not just a passenger) in lieu of Tyler Seguin.

Unless the plan all along was to tank so long that we eventually have Connor McDavid.

I think we will eventually turn into a decent team, it will just be on the shoulders of RNH/Hall/Yakupov/J. Schultz/Eberle to drive all the improvement, because our front office is incapable of filling needs. Which means it will take longer than anticipated.

That's the entire reason why we're even talking about drafting player in position X/Y/Z rather than who's the best player. We can't afford to simply draft the best player because our management is so incompetent they can't fill holes any other way and our scouting is so incompetent that they haven't given the organization any useful pro depth aside from the Eberle pick.

I get the feeling they'll be baited into possible doing something stupid like taking Lazar because he's a sentimental choice (granted one that's a decent prospect) or dealing this pick for a 1-2 year temporary veteran fix.


Last edited by Soundwave: 05-15-2013 at 04:17 AM.
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Old
05-15-2013, 04:44 AM
  #906
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Actually I disagree, I don't believe there is some "formula" to building any team the proper way. You pick the best talent.

We'd be even worse right now if we had taken Adam Larsson over Ryan Nugent Hopkins and we'd be crying ourselves to sleep watching Taylor Hall playing a pivotal role in taking the Bruins to the Cup (not just a passenger) in lieu of Tyler Seguin.

Unless the plan all along was to tank so long that we eventually have Connor McDavid.

I think we will eventually turn into a decent team, it will just be on the shoulders of RNH/Hall/Yakupov/J. Schultz/Eberle to drive all the improvement, because our front office is incapable of filling needs. Which means it will take longer than anticipated.

That's the entire reason why we're even talking about drafting player in position X/Y/Z rather than who's the best player. We can't afford to simply draft the best player because our management is so incompetent they can't fill holes any other way and our scouting is so incompetent that they haven't given the organization any useful pro depth aside from the Eberle pick.

I get the feeling they'll be baited into possible doing something stupid like taking Lazar because he's a sentimental choice (granted one that's a decent prospect) or dealing this pick for a 1-2 year temporary veteran fix.
Incompetent management aside, given the division they're headed into, do you think a core with an average weight of 185lb is going to withstand the 210lb core's of ANA/SJS/LAK?

They're spectacular players, but I don't think they're suited to play in this division.

The Oilers seem to be following the PIT/CHI model - but they don't have the size of the CHI core forwards (outside of Kane), nor the generational-skill with PIT's core forwards. These would at least give them a chance against the Pacific Div teams of the world. I don't see it in this case.

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Old
05-15-2013, 06:29 AM
  #907
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May ISS Rankings
http://thepipelineshow.blogspot.ca/2...kings-may.html

TOP 30 SKATERS
Rank (prev. rank). Name (position) - Team (League)

1. (1). Seth Jones (RD) - Portland Winterhawks (WHL)
2. (3). Nathan MacKinnon (C) - Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL)
3. (4). Jonathan Drouin (LW) - Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL)
4. (2). Valery Nichushkin (F) - Chelyabinsk (VHL)
5. (5). Sasha Barkov (F) - Tappara (SM-Liiga)
6. (6). Darnell Nurse (LD) - Soo Greyhounds (OHL)
7. (8). Elias Lindholm (C) - Brynas (SEL)
8. (7). Nikita Zadorov (LD) - London Knights (OHL)
9. (9). Sean Monahan (C) - Ottawa 67's (OHL)
10. (10). Bo Horvat (C) - London Knights (OHL)
11. (11). Rasmus Ristolainen (RD) - TPS Turku (SM-Liiga)
12. (12). Curtis Lazar (C) - Edmonton Oil Kings (WHL)
13. (13). Hunter Shinkaruk (LW) - Medicine Hat Tigers (WHL)
14. (14). Ryan Pulock (RD) - Brandon Wheat Kings (WHL)
15. (15). Alex Wennberg (C) - Djurgarden (SEL)
16. (18). Andre Burakowsky (LW) - Malmo (SEL)
17. (22). Steven Santini (RD) - US-NTDP (USHL)
18. (20). Frederik Gauthier (C) - Rimouski (QMJHL)
19. (16). Valentin Zykov (RW) - Baie-Comeau Drakkar (QMJHL)
20. (17). Kerby Rychel (LW) - Windsor Spirtfires (OHL)
21. (19). Josh Morrissey (LD) - Prince Albert Raiders (WHL)
22. (27). Madison Bowey (RD) - Kelowna Rockets (WHL)
23. (25). Anthony Mantha (LW) - Val d'Or Foreurs (QMJHL)
24. (21). J.T. Compher (C) - US-NTDP (USHL)
25. (26). Max Domi (C) - London Knights (OHL)
26. (29). Nic Petan (C) - Portland Winterhawks (WHL)
27. (37). Dillon Heatherington (LD) - Swift Current Broncos (WHL)
28. (62) Michael McCarron (RW) - US-NTDP (USHL)
29. (30). Chris Bigras (LD) - Owen Sound Attack (OHL)
30. (45). Samuel Morin (LD) - Rimouski Oceanic (QMJHL)

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Old
05-15-2013, 06:41 AM
  #908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I hate to say it, but I'm really not expecting a whole lot from this pick. I don't have faith in our brain trust that they know what they're doing outside of an obvious gimme no.1 overall pick.

The only pick that's really turned up roses for them outside of the no.1 selections has been the Eberle pick and that was probably more of a fluke than anything, maybe the hockey gods giving us a break for the Pronger trade.

I'm skeptical of Mac T/Lowe's "bold move" talk in general, this is the same group that let Glencross walk, dealt away Torres for Brule, and then Pitkanen on an RFA contract for Erik Cole, a pending UFA.

They're probably going to end up doing something stupid in the summer now that they're feeling heat even from the usually coddling Edmonton media.

Knowing the track record here they will likely trade the pick for a "veteran d-man" who will be gone from the organization in 1-2 years or make the pick based on odd criteria (ie: size or need) and watch the pick disappoint.
MacGregor has been in charge since Sept 2007. Since then the drafting has actually been quite good if you look at actual expectations for players turning out to be NHL'ers.

For me I'd say that you judege a first round pick by the relative odds that they are impact players. Outside of the top 5 or so picks odds that a player is top 6 as a forward or top 4 dman drop off quite rapidly.

Once you hit round 2 and beyond the issue is do you get a guy who actually plays in the NHL. In round 2 your odds are somewhere between 1 in 3 and 1 in 4 that the guy you pick breaks the 200 game barrier. The odds of a second line forward or top 4 defenseman drop to about 10%.

From the third round onward anything is basically a bonus.

So really a scout lives or dies by their first round picks.

Roughly speaking, you should expect 2 NHL players picked in the 2nd round onwards every three years or so. Anything better than that is actually beating the odds.

2008
Eberle at 22 ia an absolute home run. What evidence is there that this was a fluke? Hartikainen as a 6th rounder was also an excellent pick. He has a very good chance to break the 200 game barrier.

2009
Right now Paajarvi is pretty much in the middle of what you might expect out of a 10th pick. Lander looks like a legit NHL'er. Toni Rajala may not play in the NHL because of his size but he was an excellent pick realtive to his peers.

2010
Marincin is definitely ahead of where you would expect for a 2nd rounder. He has an excellent chance of being a top 4 dman but is certainly in psosition to become na NHl regualr.
I still think Pitlick becomes an NHL'er but in a bottom 6 roll.

2011
Kelfbom is looking like another home run. Musil is still on track to play in the NHl though it is too early. Ewanyk also has a very good shot at being an NHL'er. It;s too early to tell but Rieder could be a very good NHL'er.

2012
It's pretty early but so far the picks in this draft look fine. Moroz was obviously a hot button pick but we will see. Guys like Khaira and Zharkov are certainly holding their own.

So as of now in 5 drafts they have had 3 first rounders outside of the first overalls. Two look to be home runs and one is covering his bet. Add in Hall, Nuge and Yakupov and you really don't need to do much more to keep your job.

Form the later rounds they have Marincin and Lander who look to be very close to sure things. They also have Hartikainen sitting on the fence.

It is too early to say for sure with the rest of their picks but they have several players who look like they can be players.

What more do you actually want from these guys?

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Old
05-15-2013, 07:43 AM
  #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
MacGregor has been in charge since Sept 2007. Since then the drafting has actually been quite good if you look at actual expectations for players turning out to be NHL'ers.

For me I'd say that you judege a first round pick by the relative odds that they are impact players. Outside of the top 5 or so picks odds that a player is top 6 as a forward or top 4 dman drop off quite rapidly.

Once you hit round 2 and beyond the issue is do you get a guy who actually plays in the NHL. In round 2 your odds are somewhere between 1 in 3 and 1 in 4 that the guy you pick breaks the 200 game barrier. The odds of a second line forward or top 4 defenseman drop to about 10%.

From the third round onward anything is basically a bonus.

So really a scout lives or dies by their first round picks.

Roughly speaking, you should expect 2 NHL players picked in the 2nd round onwards every three years or so. Anything better than that is actually beating the odds.

2008
Eberle at 22 ia an absolute home run. What evidence is there that this was a fluke? Hartikainen as a 6th rounder was also an excellent pick. He has a very good chance to break the 200 game barrier.

2009
Right now Paajarvi is pretty much in the middle of what you might expect out of a 10th pick. Lander looks like a legit NHL'er. Toni Rajala may not play in the NHL because of his size but he was an excellent pick realtive to his peers.

2010
Marincin is definitely ahead of where you would expect for a 2nd rounder. He has an excellent chance of being a top 4 dman but is certainly in psosition to become na NHl regualr.
I still think Pitlick becomes an NHL'er but in a bottom 6 roll.

2011
Kelfbom is looking like another home run. Musil is still on track to play in the NHl though it is too early. Ewanyk also has a very good shot at being an NHL'er. It;s too early to tell but Rieder could be a very good NHL'er.

2012
It's pretty early but so far the picks in this draft look fine. Moroz was obviously a hot button pick but we will see. Guys like Khaira and Zharkov are certainly holding their own.

So as of now in 5 drafts they have had 3 first rounders outside of the first overalls. Two look to be home runs and one is covering his bet. Add in Hall, Nuge and Yakupov and you really don't need to do much more to keep your job.

Form the later rounds they have Marincin and Lander who look to be very close to sure things. They also have Hartikainen sitting on the fence.

It is too early to say for sure with the rest of their picks but they have several players who look like they can be players.

What more do you actually want from these guys?
I agree. Our drafting has been very good. I mean, I dont like how they apptoach the draft based on need but overall I cant complain. If anything, I would argue our development program hasn't been stellar. We are losing despite having Hall, Nuge, Eberle and Yak, not because of them.

Seguin, Murray and Larson aren't better then what we have.

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05-15-2013, 07:53 AM
  #910
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i REALLY hope Monahan lands to us at 7th spot. He's our guy . come on management make it happen

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05-15-2013, 08:01 AM
  #911
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Nurse reminds me of a guy who'd be on the 80s Oilers (outside of the Gretzky-Mess-Kurri-Anderson core).

Big, mean, and can chip in offensively.

I'm not saying that's enough to warrant picking him, but that's just what I thought of when I see him play. There's a difference between "tough" and "mean" also.

Smid and a few others on our roster are "tough". But no one is really "mean".
Great point on 'mean' versus 'tough'. We need both but boy do we really need mean.

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05-15-2013, 08:02 AM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I hate to say it, but I'm really not expecting a whole lot from this pick. I don't have faith in our brain trust that they know what they're doing outside of an obvious gimme no.1 overall pick.

The only pick that's really turned up roses for them outside of the no.1 selections has been the Eberle pick and that was probably more of a fluke than anything, maybe the hockey gods giving us a break for the Pronger trade.

I'm skeptical of Mac T/Lowe's "bold move" talk in general, this is the same group that let Glencross walk, dealt away Torres for Brule, and then Pitkanen on an RFA contract for Erik Cole, a pending UFA.

They're probably going to end up doing something stupid in the summer now that they're feeling heat even from the usually coddling Edmonton media.

Knowing the track record here they will likely trade the pick for a "veteran d-man" who will be gone from the organization in 1-2 years or make the pick based on odd criteria (ie: size or need) and watch the pick disappoint.
Dont forget trading Greene and Stoll for what turned out to be nothing in the end.

And these guys are still employed and in charge of the "rebuild".

Nothing good happens for Oiler fans until they are all gone.

Who knows when or even if that will ever happen.

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05-15-2013, 08:08 AM
  #913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
MacGregor has been in charge since Sept 2007. Since then the drafting has actually been quite good if you look at actual expectations for players turning out to be NHL'ers.

For me I'd say that you judege a first round pick by the relative odds that they are impact players. Outside of the top 5 or so picks odds that a player is top 6 as a forward or top 4 dman drop off quite rapidly.

Once you hit round 2 and beyond the issue is do you get a guy who actually plays in the NHL. In round 2 your odds are somewhere between 1 in 3 and 1 in 4 that the guy you pick breaks the 200 game barrier. The odds of a second line forward or top 4 defenseman drop to about 10%.

From the third round onward anything is basically a bonus.

So really a scout lives or dies by their first round picks.

Roughly speaking, you should expect 2 NHL players picked in the 2nd round onwards every three years or so. Anything better than that is actually beating the odds.

2008
Eberle at 22 ia an absolute home run. What evidence is there that this was a fluke? Hartikainen as a 6th rounder was also an excellent pick. He has a very good chance to break the 200 game barrier.

2009
Right now Paajarvi is pretty much in the middle of what you might expect out of a 10th pick. Lander looks like a legit NHL'er. Toni Rajala may not play in the NHL because of his size but he was an excellent pick realtive to his peers.

2010
Marincin is definitely ahead of where you would expect for a 2nd rounder. He has an excellent chance of being a top 4 dman but is certainly in psosition to become na NHl regualr.
I still think Pitlick becomes an NHL'er but in a bottom 6 roll.

2011
Kelfbom is looking like another home run. Musil is still on track to play in the NHl though it is too early. Ewanyk also has a very good shot at being an NHL'er. It;s too early to tell but Rieder could be a very good NHL'er.

2012
It's pretty early but so far the picks in this draft look fine. Moroz was obviously a hot button pick but we will see. Guys like Khaira and Zharkov are certainly holding their own.

So as of now in 5 drafts they have had 3 first rounders outside of the first overalls. Two look to be home runs and one is covering his bet. Add in Hall, Nuge and Yakupov and you really don't need to do much more to keep your job.

Form the later rounds they have Marincin and Lander who look to be very close to sure things. They also have Hartikainen sitting on the fence.

It is too early to say for sure with the rest of their picks but they have several players who look like they can be players.

What more do you actually want from these guys?
One of the three high second round picks (basically first rounders) to actually turn into something useful?

Looks like a long shot at best.

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05-15-2013, 08:08 AM
  #914
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If what I heard is true and that Tampa are interested in V.Nichuskins that means the draft could look like this:

1 - Jones
2 - Mackinnon
3 - Nishuskin
4 - Drouin
5- Barkov
6- Lindholm
7- Monahan DDDDDDDD

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05-15-2013, 08:09 AM
  #915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Nurse reminds me of a guy who'd be on the 80s Oilers (outside of the Gretzky-Mess-Kurri-Anderson core).

Big, mean, and can chip in offensively.

I'm not saying that's enough to warrant picking him, but that's just what I thought of when I see him play. There's a difference between "tough" and "mean" also.

Smid and a few others on our roster are "tough". But no one is really "mean".
Smid isnt tough or mean.

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05-15-2013, 08:10 AM
  #916
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Great point on 'mean' versus 'tough'. We need both but boy do we really need mean.
Sadly, Pronger was the last mean and tough defensemen, we had. (With apologies to Jason Smith)

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05-15-2013, 08:21 AM
  #917
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Originally Posted by Usual_Suspect View Post
May ISS Rankings
http://thepipelineshow.blogspot.ca/2...kings-may.html

TOP 30 SKATERS
Rank (prev. rank). Name (position) - Team (League)

1. (1). Seth Jones (RD) - Portland Winterhawks (WHL)
2. (3). Nathan MacKinnon (C) - Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL)
3. (4). Jonathan Drouin (LW) - Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL)
4. (2). Valery Nichushkin (F) - Chelyabinsk (VHL)
5. (5). Sasha Barkov (F) - Tappara (SM-Liiga)
6. (6). Darnell Nurse (LD) - Soo Greyhounds (OHL)
7. (8). Elias Lindholm (C) - Brynas (SEL)
8. (7). Nikita Zadorov (LD) - London Knights (OHL)
9. (9). Sean Monahan (C) - Ottawa 67's (OHL)
10. (10). Bo Horvat (C) - London Knights (OHL)
11. (11). Rasmus Ristolainen (RD) - TPS Turku (SM-Liiga)
12. (12). Curtis Lazar (C) - Edmonton Oil Kings (WHL)
13. (13). Hunter Shinkaruk (LW) - Medicine Hat Tigers (WHL)
14. (14). Ryan Pulock (RD) - Brandon Wheat Kings (WHL)
15. (15). Alex Wennberg (C) - Djurgarden (SEL)
16. (18). Andre Burakowsky (LW) - Malmo (SEL)
17. (22). Steven Santini (RD) - US-NTDP (USHL)
18. (20). Frederik Gauthier (C) - Rimouski (QMJHL)
19. (16). Valentin Zykov (RW) - Baie-Comeau Drakkar (QMJHL)
20. (17). Kerby Rychel (LW) - Windsor Spirtfires (OHL)
21. (19). Josh Morrissey (LD) - Prince Albert Raiders (WHL)
22. (27). Madison Bowey (RD) - Kelowna Rockets (WHL)
23. (25). Anthony Mantha (LW) - Val d'Or Foreurs (QMJHL)
24. (21). J.T. Compher (C) - US-NTDP (USHL)
25. (26). Max Domi (C) - London Knights (OHL)
26. (29). Nic Petan (C) - Portland Winterhawks (WHL)
27. (37). Dillon Heatherington (LD) - Swift Current Broncos (WHL)
28. (62) Michael McCarron (RW) - US-NTDP (USHL)
29. (30). Chris Bigras (LD) - Owen Sound Attack (OHL)
30. (45). Samuel Morin (LD) - Rimouski Oceanic (QMJHL)
I'm surprised Santini and Burakowsky are rated so high while Hagg, Hartman, Erne, Mueller and Theodore off the list.

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05-15-2013, 08:32 AM
  #918
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37 pages in and you dropped the bomb that we all had in the back of our heads.

Nothing is going to change. This team is fundamentally unsound in the way it was built, the way it is built, and the way it's going to continue to be built.

Drafting forwards before defense. Drafting wingers before centers. One-dimensional skill rather than multi-faceted excellence.

I just don't see how this ship gets righted, especially with the same management group.
I'm not sure what you mean by this?
Are you saying that it was a mistake to draft Hall (wing) over Seguin (supposedly a center), RNH (forward) over Larsson (defense) and Yakupov (wing) over Murray (defense) or Galchenyuk (center)?
Where did they have the opportunity to draft multi-faceted excellence over one dimensional skill?

The drafting has been fine, they have gone with a mix of high end forwards, defense and grittiness in the lower rounds over the last several drafts although Musil over Jenner was a head scratcher. The draftees are the least of the problems with this team. It's the pro scouting and the filling out of the rest of the roster through smart trades and free agency that has been the problem. That's where the fundamental issues lie, the amateur scouting is fine.

Anyway, i'm starting to be really intrigued by Horvat. I haven't really keyed in on him during the few London games that i've seen but it seems that his meteoric rise has some merit to it and he happens to fill a need.
Does anybody know much about Horvat from first hand viewings? How does he compare to Lazar, Monahan etc. in regards to his 2 way game and physicality?
It's going to be a fun Memorial Cup watching the obvious studs in Jones, Mac and Drouin but also the highly rated London prospects as well, Horvat, Zadarov, Domi.

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05-15-2013, 08:35 AM
  #919
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Smid isnt tough or mean.
How is Smid not tough? I think we all agree he isn't mean but he definitely brings hits and sticks up for his goalie. Maybe we just have a different definition of "tough".

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05-15-2013, 08:39 AM
  #920
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How is Smid not tough? I think we all agree he isn't mean but he definitely brings hits and sticks up for his goalie. Maybe we just have a different definition of "tough".
Agreed. I don't how anybody can claim that Smid's not tough, he's one of the toughest players in the league almost to a fault because he puts himself in positions to get injured a lot. He'll do just about anything to sacrifice his body and block a shot.
He's not mean but he's one tough hombre.

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05-15-2013, 08:54 AM
  #921
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One of the three high second round picks (basically first rounders) to actually turn into something useful?

Looks like a long shot at best.
You think it is a long shot that Lander plays in the NHL?

Of course you need to define useful. Take a look at this thread.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1298875

Notice that not one player drafted at #30 between 1999 to 2008 became a top six forward or top 4 dman. And if you look at the 50 players taken in the 26-30 slot over that period only ten reached that level.

So yes, the odds of a high second rounder turning into something better than Lander is a long shot at best.

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05-15-2013, 09:00 AM
  #922
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I'm not sure what you mean by this?
Are you saying that it was a mistake to draft Hall (wing) over Seguin (supposedly a center), RNH (forward) over Larsson (defense) and Yakupov (wing) over Murray (defense) or Galchenyuk (center)?
Where did they have the opportunity to draft multi-faceted excellence over one dimensional skill?

The drafting has been fine, they have gone with a mix of high end forwards, defense and grittiness in the lower rounds over the last several drafts although Musil over Jenner was a head scratcher. The draftees are the least of the problems with this team. It's the pro scouting and the filling out of the rest of the roster through smart trades and free agency that has been the problem. That's where the fundamental issues lie, the amateur scouting is fine.

Anyway, i'm starting to be really intrigued by Horvat. I haven't really keyed in on him during the few London games that i've seen but it seems that his meteoric rise has some merit to it and he happens to fill a need.
Does anybody know much about Horvat from first hand viewings? How does he compare to Lazar, Monahan etc. in regards to his 2 way game and physicality?
It's going to be a fun Memorial Cup watching the obvious studs in Jones, Mac and Drouin but also the highly rated London prospects as well, Horvat, Zadarov, Domi.
They took BPA in each case, the only problem is "luck". They picked in drafts were the BPA wasn't a C (2008,09,10,12). Not necessarily a management problem per se but just a contextual mishap.

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05-15-2013, 09:09 AM
  #923
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They took BPA in each case, the only problem is "luck". They picked in drafts were the BPA wasn't a C (2008,09,10,12). Not necessarily a management problem per se but just a contextual mishap.
I agree with that in the sense that they didn't draft 1st overall 3 years earlier and get generational talents, it just seemed like you were blaming the management group (amateur scouts) for the drafting. Can't fault them for picking BPA and the lower round picks for the most part have tracked well considering where they were picked so the amateur scouting is the least of the organizational problems although this obssession with Oil Kings is getting a little tiresome and i'm still irritated by the Musil over Jenner pick.

They did fine with Hall, RNH and Yakupov and getting Eberle and Klefbom where they got them was extremely lucky. The core isn't the problem, it's the rest of the roster that needs work and it would be nice if some of the lower round picks start becoming fixtures on the big club namely Lander, Pitlick, Marincin and Hartikainen all of whom i still have hopes for.

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05-15-2013, 09:10 AM
  #924
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Originally Posted by Usual_Suspect View Post
May ISS Rankings
http://thepipelineshow.blogspot.ca/2...kings-may.html

TOP 30 SKATERS
Rank (prev. rank). Name (position) - Team (League)

1. (1). Seth Jones (RD) - Portland Winterhawks (WHL)
2. (3). Nathan MacKinnon (C) - Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL)
3. (4). Jonathan Drouin (LW) - Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL)
4. (2). Valery Nichushkin (F) - Chelyabinsk (VHL)
5. (5). Sasha Barkov (F) - Tappara (SM-Liiga)
6. (6). Darnell Nurse (LD) - Soo Greyhounds (OHL)
7. (8). Elias Lindholm (C) - Brynas (SEL)
8. (7). Nikita Zadorov (LD) - London Knights (OHL)
9. (9). Sean Monahan (C) - Ottawa 67's (OHL)
10. (10). Bo Horvat (C) - London Knights (OHL)
11. (11). Rasmus Ristolainen (RD) - TPS Turku (SM-Liiga)
12. (12). Curtis Lazar (C) - Edmonton Oil Kings (WHL)
13. (13). Hunter Shinkaruk (LW) - Medicine Hat Tigers (WHL)
14. (14). Ryan Pulock (RD) - Brandon Wheat Kings (WHL)
15. (15). Alex Wennberg (C) - Djurgarden (SEL)
16. (18). Andre Burakowsky (LW) - Malmo (SEL)
17. (22). Steven Santini (RD) - US-NTDP (USHL)
18. (20). Frederik Gauthier (C) - Rimouski (QMJHL)
19. (16). Valentin Zykov (RW) - Baie-Comeau Drakkar (QMJHL)
20. (17). Kerby Rychel (LW) - Windsor Spirtfires (OHL)
21. (19). Josh Morrissey (LD) - Prince Albert Raiders (WHL)
22. (27). Madison Bowey (RD) - Kelowna Rockets (WHL)
23. (25). Anthony Mantha (LW) - Val d'Or Foreurs (QMJHL)
24. (21). J.T. Compher (C) - US-NTDP (USHL)
25. (26). Max Domi (C) - London Knights (OHL)
26. (29). Nic Petan (C) - Portland Winterhawks (WHL)
27. (37). Dillon Heatherington (LD) - Swift Current Broncos (WHL)
28. (62) Michael McCarron (RW) - US-NTDP (USHL)
29. (30). Chris Bigras (LD) - Owen Sound Attack (OHL)
30. (45). Samuel Morin (LD) - Rimouski Oceanic (QMJHL)
Wow, Zadorov remains ahead of Monahan? Can anyone please fill me in on his play the last 1.5mo (if he's been playing?). Wasn't impressed with earlier viewings (although limited).

Keep in mind last year this service had Galchenyuk outside their top-10, Grigorenko and Forsberg in their top-5, and Ceci/Teravainen in their top-10.

Nurse doesn't play a game since March 31 and he moves up from April to May. Weird huh

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05-15-2013, 09:10 AM
  #925
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I understand we need to improve our depth at C and D, but I don't get why people complain that we drafted wingers.

1) Who should we have drafted instead of Hall, Eberle or Yakupov. I'll allow a case for Ellis or Kulikov over Paajarvi.

2) Winning teams need good wingers. We complain that we lack depth at C or D, but do you know how many fan bases out there complain that they don't have enough scoring wingers? You need depth all across the board. People go on about the defensive responsibility of the centre... but a good a winger could shut down offensive production from a guy like Doughty all game.

I do think we need to draft C or D this time, but I have no complaints about where our top picks have been going.

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