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Wasting talent in CHL, evidence

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Old
05-13-2013, 09:31 AM
  #401
cska78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
This is just sickening that these agents are doing to these kids and Russian hockey in general. They are completely destroying the hockey careers of these promising kids who are not old enough to know what is best for them.
yes
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
So it doesn't matter if the kids are coached by a Russian, it has to happen IN Russia? Riiiight...
complete nonsense once again.

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Old
05-13-2013, 09:39 AM
  #402
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
yes


complete nonsense once again.
Yup, e.g. Yakupov's career is completely ruined... How about waiting for a while before playing your broken record?

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05-13-2013, 11:48 AM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Yup, e.g. Yakupov's career is completely ruined... How about waiting for a while before playing your broken record?
there's no broken record, there are cases that work out, I don't deny it, but my pov is the real stars will make it work everywhere, it's the the players whos potential is a fringe NHL/KHL player that get ruined.

Btw the way, the only one who's broken record is playing here is you. I just list the cases, to be evaluated later.

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Old
05-13-2013, 01:18 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
there's no broken record, there are cases that work out, I don't deny it, but my pov is the real stars will make it work everywhere, it's the the players whos potential is a fringe NHL/KHL player that get ruined.

Btw the way, the only one who's broken record is playing here is you. I just list the cases, to be evaluated later.
Really?

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so the same situation as with Korostelev...god-awful.
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two more who left really early, don't have much scoop on them but sad.

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Old
05-13-2013, 01:57 PM
  #405
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Really?
and your point?

My point is the 98% of Russian Juniors are better of developing at home...what's your point? yippity yup?

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Old
05-13-2013, 05:06 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
and your point?

My point is the 98% of Russian Juniors are better of developing at home...what's your point? yippity yup?
The same as always, each player's situation is different, they make their decisions based what's best for their own development, where they think they'll get the best coaching and icetime.

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05-14-2013, 10:53 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
The same as always, each player's situation is different, they make their decisions based what's best for their own development, where they think they'll get the best coaching and icetime.
do you think at the age 15-17 a KID can make that decision? do you think a kid will analyze past 10 years of hockey history, realistically weigh in his talent, wisely ignore the fairy-tale by the agent, who's looking to score quick $$$? Or someone like Larionov, once a great player will tell this young kid - hey, I will bring you over and open the gate to the NHL and the kid will listen?

Don't forget - athletes are not the brightest bulbs out there to begin with, athletes and teenagers is even a more severe case of an exception. You are trying to oversimplify the situation.

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Old
05-14-2013, 10:59 AM
  #408
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cska78

You are right, I am suprised you have energy to explain such basic info to Jussi again and again.

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Old
05-14-2013, 12:17 PM
  #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
do you think at the age 15-17 a KID can make that decision? do you think a kid will analyze past 10 years of hockey history, realistically weigh in his talent, wisely ignore the fairy-tale by the agent, who's looking to score quick $$$? Or someone like Larionov, once a great player will tell this young kid - hey, I will bring you over and open the gate to the NHL and the kid will listen?

Don't forget - athletes are not the brightest bulbs out there to begin with, athletes and teenagers is even a more severe case of an exception. You are trying to oversimplify the situation.
No you're the one oversimplifying things. There's so many aspects that can effect decisions. Also you're overreactions to the whole players going to CHL is ridiculous considering how many juniors players there are in Russia to begin with. Why aren't you caring for all the thousands of kids that don't make the cut to represent the "A-team" but are still in the system? Above all, it's not your or my job to tell them what to with their lives, they make their decisions and live by them. They don't you or anyone else anything.

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05-14-2013, 01:05 PM
  #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
No you're the one oversimplifying things. There's so many aspects that can effect decisions. Also you're overreactions to the whole players going to CHL is ridiculous considering how many juniors players there are in Russia to begin with. Why aren't you caring for all the thousands of kids that don't make the cut to represent the "A-team" but are still in the system? Above all, it's not your or my job to tell them what to with their lives, they make their decisions and live by them. They don't you or anyone else anything.
Ridiculous based on your limited knowledge and opinion, not based on historical facts. As far as the other juniors go - if you check the MHL thread, I do care.

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05-14-2013, 04:12 PM
  #411
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CSKA, you'd have a point if you didn't fall into the perpetual trap of hyperbole.

Going to NA isn't bad for all. Statistically bad historically, but we don't need this endless wall of "98 kid going to NA, career ruined!!!!!". It is useless, worthless and ridiculous hyperbole to make a point that has been made a 1000 times. It happens, so deal with it.


Last edited by JeffMangum: 05-14-2013 at 04:25 PM.
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05-15-2013, 02:10 AM
  #412
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I wonder why Jussi does not advocate Finnish players going to Canadian juniors with the same intensity that he does with Russian players?

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05-15-2013, 02:17 AM
  #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
CSKA, you'd have a point if you didn't fall into the perpetual trap of hyperbole.

Going to NA isn't bad for all. Statistically bad historically, but we don't need this endless wall of "98 kid going to NA, career ruined!!!!!". It is useless, worthless and ridiculous hyperbole to make a point that has been made a 1000 times. It happens, so deal with it.
Well, going to NA as a junior does not automatically mean a "ruined career" but it makes the prospects of a player developing into his full potential worse. So why leave?

But this is Russia's problem so Russia should deal with it. There is something wrong with the Russian development system if the BEST and MOST TALENTED kids leave to NA early when they could get better training in Russia.

Russia lacks either means or will to convince these kids to stay in Russia. Russians need to figure out how to do this.

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05-15-2013, 02:22 AM
  #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Well, going to NA as a junior does not automatically mean a "ruined career" but it makes the prospects of a player developing into his full potential worse. So why leave?

But this is Russia's problem so Russia should deal with it. There is something wrong with the Russian development system if the BEST and MOST TALENTED kids leave to NA early when they could get better training in Russia.

Russia lacks either means or will to convince these kids to stay in Russia. Russians need to figure out how to do this.
easy answer - agents

Of course, in small russian clubs (Rus Msk etc) can be problem with quality of coaches but not in CSKA, Ak Bars etc.

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05-15-2013, 02:46 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
easy answer - agents
Then Russians have to find ways to be more convincing than these agents.

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05-15-2013, 03:01 AM
  #416
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Then Russians have to find ways to be more convincing than these agents.
Dont worry.. problem is that ДЮСШs are under jurisdiction of FHR. As soon as KHL will govern them, the problem will be solved sooner than later. Yes, nobody will keep players in Russia, but if a player wants to move to CHL, CHL club will have to pay $

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05-15-2013, 03:55 AM
  #417
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Russia should work a system that would require players who are at least 14 years old to play in Russia until they are 18.

In order to play junior hockey in Russia every player who is 14 or older must sign a contract which will bind him to his club until he is 18. If a player does not sign them he is banned playing junior hockey in Russia.

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05-15-2013, 04:00 AM
  #418
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Russia should work a system that would require players who are at least 14 years old to play in Russia until they are 18.

In order to play junior hockey in Russia every player who is 14 or older must sign a contract which will bind him to his club until he is 18. If a player does not sign them he is banned playing junior hockey in Russia.
Dont know if it ideal solution, but if it is, then IIHF should adopt it for all federations.

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05-15-2013, 04:03 AM
  #419
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Quote:
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In order to play junior hockey in Russia every player who is 14 or older must sign a contract which will bind him to his club until he is 18. If a player does not sign them he is banned playing junior hockey in Russia.
But the thing that they will leave as thirteen-year olds. It is that simple

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05-15-2013, 04:06 AM
  #420
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But the thing that they will leave as thirteen-year olds. It is that simple
13 yo are generally too young to leave the country to pursue a hockey career.

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05-15-2013, 04:09 AM
  #421
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Dont know if it ideal solution, but if it is, then IIHF should adopt it for all federations.
Actually Russia does not need IIHF's approval to make this happen. Russia just needs to use this regulation internally: if a 14 yo or older kid wants to play hockey in a competitive level in Russia he needs to sign that contract that will bind him to his current club until he is 18.

NA bamtan and CHL clubs must also respect these contracts.

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Old
05-15-2013, 04:11 AM
  #422
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Quote:
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13 yo are generally too young to leave the country to pursue a hockey career.
Nikita Korostelev?

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Old
05-15-2013, 04:11 AM
  #423
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Quote:
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Nikita Korostelev?
What is his story?

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Old
05-15-2013, 04:43 AM
  #424
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What is his story?
Don't know much but he supposedly is really talented and he left at age of 13-14. Went high in OHL draft as well.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=183258

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05-15-2013, 04:45 AM
  #425
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Dont know if it ideal solution, but if it is, then IIHF should adopt it for all federations.
Doesn't sound like it would be legal in the European Union.

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