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Rangers assign Moore and Girardi to Hartford

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Old
09-28-2006, 06:54 PM
  #26
ChrisKreider20
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whos left in training camp (Young guys of course)...?

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09-28-2006, 07:00 PM
  #27
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change his last name to dubinsky or dawes.....

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09-28-2006, 09:16 PM
  #28
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The same people that want to preach what true rebuild is have a problem with a 25 year old playing over another 25 year old....Mind you this is done way before the rosters have been announced and the opening night lineup is set...

I think is laughable to think that Hollweg would be moved to center to give Hossa a spot in the lineup anyway. Not because it would be the worst move in the world but because that would be Renneys one reason for doing it...

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09-28-2006, 09:43 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Can't say I like Hollweg at center especially if Betts is another center. Hollweg might have some untapped offensive ability but then again he might not--2 pro seasons (1 AHL, 1 NHL) haven't produced much. Hate to say it but centerman Hollweg might just be the reincarnation of P. J. Stock. Playing center might mean also that his responsibilities change to covering more ice defensively and therefore spending less time forechecking and being the first guy in on the puck carrier. The big debate is how these bottom two lines are going to be configured. Like either Dubinsky or Immonen for 3rd line center. Think Hall should be one of the wings--Dawes if he's still around the other. 4th line Betts, Ward and Hollweg. Certainly doesn't leave room for Hossa but I imagine they'll find opportunities to insert him here and there. Anyway that's what I would do.
Agreed, especially on Hollweg playing center. Unless, it's a prelude to Betts being traded.

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09-28-2006, 10:21 PM
  #30
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Assuming that Hossa is indeed a roster lock, a line with Dawes-Hollweg-Hall would be fun!
which would make Hossa-Betts-Ward the other line.

In a perfect world, Hossa doesn't make the team and either Dubinsky or Immonen plays center and Hollweg moves back left-side.

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09-28-2006, 10:22 PM
  #31
Larry Melnyk
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I think a big reason for it, is the way he moves on the ice. Its hard only seeing him on tv, but follow him as much as possible on a shift. He skates extremely hard in bursts, untill he gets into position, where he kind of stops, follows the play, and then bursts into next positions, very dillegently. Ryan probably accelerate and breaks 7-8 times in avg per shift. Its not a optimal way to move.

Though this style do have both pro's and cons. Its good because he almost never gets caugt out of position. He is always turned the right way, and follows the play really closely, the way he sees the ice without the puck is pretty underrated, though it shows at the number of hits he is able to land.

The negative side is that while Hollweg has his fair share of "takeaways", he either gets the puck kind of standing still, or moving slowly, or when he is moving in direction to hit someone.

The opposite of moving like Hollweg, is probably a player like Mike York, he is always skating, probably can go a entire game without ever breaking, or stopping. That way a player like York, who aren't really that fast, still beats allot of player with his speed, cause whenever he picksup a puck he already are moving at full speed. The negative side of playing like York is that its impossible to always be in position and still skate in full speed, cause at times the right position remains at the same place for a few seconds.

If Hollweg gets to play as a center for a half a season, or something like that, he would have to play allot more with the puck, improvising allot more. That might jump start his offensive game, give him more confidence with the puck. It would also be good if Hollweg picked up some experience at center, if we later in his career wanted to play him with rookie center. In thoose situations its always good to have a winger who can help out if needed in the transition game.
I think you raise some good points about Hollweg's skating, but also blowing it out of proportion a bit....I think Hollweg skates/moves like that because his job has totally been to hit, always be in position, and not make mistakes....That's it...Goals from him meant nothng...And Hollweg skated exactly like he should have to accomlish his job...Now, if he's given the C spot and/or maybe al little bit more leeway in trying to be a complete player, maybe we can see if he has the "moves" to be that type of player....My bet from watching his strong and fast (but not jet like) skating is that he can...we;ll see..

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09-29-2006, 07:07 AM
  #32
ChrisKreider20
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Is it just me or does Brandon Dubinsky seem fat in his NYR.com pic.

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09-29-2006, 11:26 AM
  #33
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How dare you, the kid is muscle!

Just go find some pictures of his legs, they are like tree trunks!!!!!

Granted they are fat, flabby tree trunks but they're so big!

All kidding aside, the kid has bulked up but I think he's added a bit too much weight and especially bad weight.

It was touched on in an article where Brandon was quoted as saying he had problems with eating the right stuff, Renney has alluded to Brandon "losing some weight" from his weigh in and frankly his Rangers photo, and a few off ice training camp photos show me that the kid is going to have train better.

Now I know we'll get the usual optimisistic spin ranging from everything from "His head is pulled back" to "he doesn't look out of shape on the ice" but at the end of the day I think we can admit the kid is going to have to get in a little better shape.

He's not in bad shape, he just needs to get in better shape.

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09-29-2006, 12:08 PM
  #34
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The kid's 20...

he looks like he still has baby fat, especially in his chubby face.

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09-29-2006, 12:46 PM
  #35
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Here we go again... a month ago I sad that subtraction of Ort and Dom will cause a chaos at the bottom 6. Now looks like every one wants to suggest the solution. I.e. problem is there. The solutions are as follows:

MOVING HOLLWEG I do not think moving Hollwed to C is the best idea. It could be just an ok move, but it is a "band-aid" for now. I agree, he is not agile enough to play centre at this level. Wing is the least demanding job and Holly is quite alright in there hitting and running with the puck (he is adequately fast, but not agile).

SIGN OR TRADE FOR VET. The easiest solution is to obtain checking center, since Cuillen is not the one, via trade or somehow else. That will take away an opening on the roster from the rookie and will upset those fans who want to evaluate ever prospect themselves on MSG ice. That could be alleviated with other kid introduction to divert their attention (like anyone really take then seriously!). So if Dawes is in, wait for checking C to be obtained soon.

KEEP DUBINSKI. First of all I like this kid a lot. Dubinski can help with some risk of being used on 2nd or 3rd line, since he has no business being on 4th line. So if Renney keeps him, then Betts has to center 4th if not Hollweg. The problem with that is as of now Dubi is no better than Betts and there is no reason for Betts demotion other that poor planning on bosses part. That doesn't fly with any employee let alone pro athletes. If in incoming games with Isles and Bruins Betts plays on lower line than Dubi, that is what he will have to accept.


Last edited by Melrose_Jr.: 09-29-2006 at 01:42 PM. Reason: racial slur removed
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09-29-2006, 01:09 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Here we go again... a month ago I sad that subtraction of Ort and Dom will cause a chaos at the bottom 6.
You are mixing and matching to fit your needs. Or so it appears. The problem is not the fact that Ortmeyer and D. Moore are not playing on the bottom 6. The Rangers have no shortage of players that can play the bottom-2 lines. The problem is:
1. That it APPEARS that Hollweg is being moved to center to give Renney the ability to play Hossa.
2. This is due to the fact that if Immonen (or Dubinsky, pick your choice) were to make the team as one of the bottom-2 line centers, Hollweg would be back at his natural wing position. Since it APPEARS that Dawes seems to be on the cusp of making the team, and since Renney stated that the does not want to play rookies unless they are getting at least 8-10 minutes of ice time, the odd-man out in this case would be Hossa.
3. However by playing Hollweg out of position, Renney would have effectively filled the bottom-2 line centers spots and can still play Dawes on wing, while still leaving room for Hossa to start.
4. This has a negative effect that is two-fold. First of all, it nullifies scoring from the bottom-2 lines, as Betts is not a 3rd line center as his scoring touch is void. Second of all, it would appear that Immonen and Dubinsky are getting shafted. This despite the fact that they have had superior camps to-date than either Hossa or Betts. Even if you believe that Dubinsky can use more seasoning (and I do), this does not change the fact that Immonen could play the 3rd line center. But again, that means that Renney would have to bench Hossa and demote Betts to the 4th line.

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09-29-2006, 01:45 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
SIGN OR TRADE FOR VET. The easiest solution is to obtain checking center
Whu? The problem is too many qualified candidates and too few positions.

So far this preseason, I haven't seen anything wrong with the team that could be attributed to the absence of Ortmeyer and Moore.

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09-29-2006, 02:00 PM
  #38
Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Here we go again... a month ago I sad that subtraction of Ort and Dom will cause a chaos at the bottom 6. Now looks like every one wants to suggest the solution. I.e. problem is there. The solutions are as follows:

.
Do you leave marks on your back when you do that? But seriously, I think you are as wrong now as you were then (well, not totally and I'll hit that below)...Where is there chaos? On the HF Merssage Board? On the Internet? Oh my god, that must mean the Rangers are totally confused!

The "problem" if you want to call it that is exactly what Melrose Jr. mentioned--too many candiates for too few positions--and the Rangers are using pre-season for exatcly what they should be doing---trying to find the best combinations....And places like this are just discussing all the myraid of possibilitries and opinions and is no reflection of the real time...

Now, where I do agree with you is that ORTs illness has hurt a little...We need a player like Him to do what he did (hit, block shots, pk, non-stop motor) and compliment Hollweg...i do think he will be missed and, as you mentioned, I wouldn't have a problem with bringing in a vet bangers IFFFF the Rangers are commited to giving their youngsters a bit more seasoning..OTOH, I don't think they will miss the nothingness of Dom Moore one iota...

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09-29-2006, 02:26 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
You are mixing and matching to fit your needs. Or so it appears. The problem is not the fact that Ortmeyer and D. Moore are not playing on the bottom 6. The Rangers have no shortage of players that can play the bottom-2 lines. The problem is:
1. That it APPEARS that Hollweg is being moved to center to give Renney the ability to play Hossa.
2. This is due to the fact that if Immonen (or Dubinsky, pick your choice) were to make the team as one of the bottom-2 line centers, Hollweg would be back at his natural wing position. Since it APPEARS that Dawes seems to be on the cusp of making the team, and since Renney stated that the does not want to play rookies unless they are getting at least 8-10 minutes of ice time, the odd-man out in this case would be Hossa.
3. However by playing Hollweg out of position, Renney would have effectively filled the bottom-2 line centers spots and can still play Dawes on wing, while still leaving room for Hossa to start.
4. This has a negative effect that is two-fold. First of all, it nullifies scoring from the bottom-2 lines, as Betts is not a 3rd line center as his scoring touch is void. Second of all, it would appear that Immonen and Dubinsky are getting shafted. This despite the fact that they have had superior camps to-date than either Hossa or Betts. Even if you believe that Dubinsky can use more seasoning (and I do), this does not change the fact that Immonen could play the 3rd line center. But again, that means that Renney would have to bench Hossa and demote Betts to the 4th line.
One thing TB...About Hollweg, he came up through Juniors playing alot of C and is not really "out of position" there...Just didn't play it last year.....

I agree with the first part of Number 4 and why I don't want Betts-Holly as the bottom two centers.....But I really don';t think Dubi and Immo are getting "shafted"..Though both are ready for NHL minutes, Dubi could easily use more seasoning and might be better for it...And just maybe Renney doesn't think Immo can contribute the all around game HE (not me) wants and thinks Betts can contribute much more as his third C (and that might be true)...

I do understand the Hossa part..We have the same view of Hossa but Renney doesn't..H eobviously sees him as a top 9 forward for this team right now and as the old saying goes...."coches decision"..However, I think the solid camps of Immo, Dubi, Moore and Dawes will mean that Hossa will get an extemeley short lease as the kids hone their game in Hartford...Hell, maybe they will be up in 2-3 weeks..

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Old
09-29-2006, 04:44 PM
  #40
Edge
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he looks like he still has baby fat, especially in his chubby face.
What's weird is that it seems like he has added it later.

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Old
09-29-2006, 06:25 PM
  #41
True Blue
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
But I really don';t think Dubi and Immo are getting "shafted"..Though both are ready for NHL minutes, Dubi could easily use more seasoning and might be better for it...And just maybe Renney doesn't think Immo can contribute the all around game HE (not me) wants and thinks Betts can contribute much more as his third C (and that might be true)...
I understand about what Renney thinks. And, yes, Dubinsky will be better for getting a year in Hartford. However, Immonen IS getting (or so it seems right now) the short end of the stick. Renney stated that there were several spots up for grab. Immonen is having a noticeiabley superior camp than either Betts or Hossa. However, by playing Hollweg at center, Renney creates the opening for Hossa, while taking it away from Immonen.

I know you understand what I am saying, but this is what it appears to be (at least from my perch). For that matter, Baranka has been better than Rachunek and Rozsival has yet to step a toe onto the ice, and he appears to be targeted for Hartford as well. However, the real looser in this seems to be Immonen.

Who knows? This is the land of overanalyzation & microanalyzation at the same time, after all.


Last edited by True Blue: 09-29-2006 at 10:42 PM.
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09-29-2006, 09:38 PM
  #42
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So far this preseason, I haven't seen anything wrong with the team that could be attributed to the absence of Ortmeyer and Moore.
I would agree should you say "Ortmeyer OR Moore". Something like that Larry is saying. The problem is AND. They both are out. So instead of thinking about bottom 6 production increase by means of infusion young capable scorers, Renney problem now is a looming necessity to re-build the defensive lines so they just wouldn't be a sore spot on the team. That is why he sticks with proven horses, although they have been around for not so long, instead of challenging them with young guns like many suggested here. He doesn't obsessed with Hossa to the point he opens spot for him. He just tries to avoid the situation when you have to shuffle too many lines. HOSSA JUST BEEN THERE. If he could have Betts and Hollweg as reliable Cs on the bottom lines, then, forget about scoring from bottom 6, he can focus on really important thing: build and get production out of now non-existent 2nd line.

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09-29-2006, 10:47 PM
  #43
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The problem is AND. They both are out. So instead of thinking about bottom 6 production increase by means of infusion young capable scorers, Renney problem now is a looming necessity to re-build the defensive lines so they just wouldn't be a sore spot on the team.
That still makes no difference as you are still talking about the 4th line. No one is talking about having a 15 goal scorer on the 4th line, just the best way to have one on the 3rd, along with maintaining a defensive posture. There are more than enough 3rd & 4th line candidates that are more than capable. The problem lies with putting the right people out there to give the team the most chance of success. That is where the debates come in. Not having Moore & Ortmeyer on the 4th line is not nearly the issue that you are trying to make it seem. Or so it seems to me.

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