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Old
05-15-2013, 09:20 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Brandonlee View Post
I would lose my mind if the Canucks entered training camp expecting Schroeder to start on the second line.

If we have learned anything from this teams failures over the past two playoffs, it's that the Canucks need to add more snipers and size to their top six. I don't really think taking an undersized forward with limited offensive potential and playing him away from his natural position is the answer.

At this point, I think it would be unwise to expect Schroeder to be an every day player next season. If he comes into camp and surpasses our expectations, then that's great. If not, then he can compete with guys like Jensen and Lain for depth positions in the bottom six.
Gillis already greased those skids though.

Devloping young players at the NHL level was the quote, Schroeder is a young player ready for an opportunity. Same as Corrado, Kassian, and maybe some of the grindy prospects like Lain and Archibald.

Not sure how he has limited offensive ability either.

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05-15-2013, 09:21 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patches View Post
This isn't really a year I expect us to do anything, In the offseason the only moves I expect is a Luongo trade, Booth buyout and Ballard trade. With the falling cap for only next season it will be a good year to see what we have; Get a new coach and see how the players respond and play as many prospects as possible to give them a sense of what they need to work on. Let the Sedins' play out the final year of their contract and then when the cap rises we should have plenty of cap space to work with. The only big move that makes sense this offseason instead of next would be to trade Edler for a young prospect.
So essentially next season is a throw away year and we shouldn't expect anything to improve? That's a tough one for me to stomach. Then again, there are those who still think this team is good enough, like three straight offensive no-shows in the playoffs wasnt enough and we need a fourth for them to finally get it (maybe?).

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Old
05-15-2013, 09:24 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Brandonlee View Post
If you are gifting Schroeder a top six spot in training camp, you aren't re-tooling. You are rebuilding. Edmonton Oilers / Connor Mcdavid type rebuilding. Those are the type of moves teams make when they want to win the draft lottery, not retool a Stanley cup contender.

Listen, I'm fine with giving Schroeder (and guys like Jensen, Lane, Corrado) the opportunity to make the team next season. If a young player comes into camp and earns a spot, then great. However, you're running the franchise into the ground if you're counting on someone with 9 career NHL points to play a top six role next season.
Beyond dramatic with this post.

He's only played 30 something games, many on the 4th line...why not put him in a role to succeed?

I believe that is what Gillis was talking about....try these young guys out where you ultimately want them to fit in the lineup and work through it.

It's not like they're bumping better players....next year is definitely a transition year for the Canucks, you might as well see what you have with what you have.

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Old
05-15-2013, 09:28 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
So essentially next season is a throw away year and we shouldn't expect anything to improve? That's a tough one for me to stomach. Then again, there are those who still think this team is good enough, like three straight offensive no-shows in the playoffs wasnt enough and we need a fourth for them to finally get it (maybe?).
You can expect the on ice play to improve hopefully with a new coach and a new system, but I agree with Patches, expecting to go "All-In" again is just not smart management.

Roll with what we have, hope some players bounce back under a new leader, and hopefully that's enough to get to the playoffs....where anything can happen.

Dropping cap and very little flexibility makes this the best case of direction IMO, if you don't like we know you like the Oilers, jump on that bandwagon for our re-tooling year.

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05-15-2013, 09:33 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
You can expect the on ice play to improve hopefully with a new coach and a new system, but I agree with Patches, expecting to go "All-In" again is just not smart management.

Roll with what we have, hope some players bounce back under a new leader, and hopefully that's enough to get to the playoffs....where anything can happen.

Dropping cap and very little flexibility makes this the best case of direction IMO, if you don't like we know you like the Oilers, jump on that bandwagon for our re-tooling year.
I'm fine with retooling and a mini rebuild. I'm fine with a regressed standing if we have a clear direction that we are going in. But if our top 6 is going to remain relatively unchanged then I have a problem. If we are seeing the Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Higgins, Booth and Hansen rotating as regulars in our top 6 then Gillis really does deserve to be fired. To me that doesn't suggest this is a retooling year, that suggests this will be a wasted year.

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Old
05-15-2013, 09:55 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
You can expect the on ice play to improve hopefully with a new coach and a new system, but I agree with Patches, expecting to go "All-In" again is just not smart management.

Roll with what we have, hope some players bounce back under a new leader, and hopefully that's enough to get to the playoffs....where anything can happen.

Dropping cap and very little flexibility makes this the best case of direction IMO, if you don't like we know you like the Oilers, jump on that bandwagon for our re-tooling year.

Exactly. Well thought out post, start to finish. Especially the finish.

Cap dropping, new leader, no "all-in" foolishness, and keep the core intact. It's the support pieces that need changing. Same thing SJ did.

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05-15-2013, 10:16 AM
  #57
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Voynov would be a great target in terms of talent...a lousy target if you expect the offer sheet to work. There is no way the Kings let him go. He is their #2 guy in icetime, plays in all situations and they likely look for him to be a 45+ point guy from the blueline (through his only 2 seasons in the NHL he has averaged a 36 point pace). He quite simply isn't going anywhere unless the Kings have a major brain cramp.


I think one of Shattenkirk or Pietrangelo will be targetted by GMs. The Blues are an internal budget team and taking on the Bouwmeester deal is going to hurt them when it comes to not only player retention but improvements. Improvements they need as they really don't have any first line forwards. They have a number of 45-55 point forwards...perfect for depth but terrible for an overall offense (i.e. Oshie and Backes can make a heck of a second line but a not so good first line). The Blues truly are in cap hell this summer unless they lift the budget restraint (not sure after an early exit that will happen).

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Old
05-15-2013, 10:52 AM
  #58
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I don't see what the problem with going "all in" is. What would be the benefit of standing pat as opposed to signing a top-6 forward in UFA?

Or if we decide to go the trade route, (e.g. trade the equivalent of 3 1sts for Vanek), our roster will be set to be a legit contender for at least the next 3 years. During that time we'll acquire more prospects to replace what we've given up.

Our team has significant trouble scoring, and it would be bad asset management to let the Sedins waste away the last of their prime with a team that can't make it out of the 1st round. We need an impact top-6 winger if we want any shot at the cup any time soon.

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Old
05-15-2013, 10:58 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I don't see what the problem with going "all in" is. What would be the benefit of standing pat as opposed to signing a top-6 forward in UFA?

Or if we decide to go the trade route, (e.g. trade the equivalent of 3 1sts for Vanek), our roster will be set to be a legit contender for at least the next 3 years. During that time we'll acquire more prospects to replace what we've given up.

Our team has significant trouble scoring, and it would be bad asset management to let the Sedins waste away the last of their prime with a team that can't make it out of the 1st round. We need an impact top-6 winger if we want any shot at the cup any time soon.
Thomas Vanek doesn't make this team a legitimate contender for next year, let alone the next three years. Unless we can get a steal of a trade, a steal of an RFA (like Pietrangelo or Shattenkirk), AND an impact UFA signing (like Iginla) I don't see how this team can be considered anywhere near being a contender. We need to stop living in the past and accept that this team has regressed. We can either make big changes (going all in with be changes I mentioned above and nothing less, or we can retool/rebuild and go young giving hope for the future) or we can continue to fade into mediocrity and become the new Calgary Flames.

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Old
05-15-2013, 11:06 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Thomas Vanek doesn't make this team a legitimate contender for next year, let alone the next three years. Unless we can get a steal of a trade, a steal of an RFA (like Pietrangelo or Shattenkirk), AND an impact UFA signing (like Iginla) I don't see how this team can be considered anywhere near being a contender. We need to stop living in the past and accept that this team has regressed. We can either make big changes (going all in with be changes I mentioned above and nothing less, or we can retool/rebuild and go young giving hope for the future) or we can continue to fade into mediocrity and become the new Calgary Flames.
There's no way we can fit all that under the cap. Our defense is fine as is, and there's no way St. Louis doesn't match Pietrangelo/Shattenkirk's offer sheets.

I think we have a hole at top-6 wing and it needs to be addressed, but if you think we need a top-6 wing, and a franchise/top-pairing defenseman, and a "steal of a trade(for what?)" in order to just be "near" contending, then you are grossly underestimating this team.

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Old
05-15-2013, 11:26 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
There's no way we can fit all that under the cap. Our defense is fine as is, and there's no way St. Louis doesn't match Pietrangelo/Shattenkirk's offer sheets.

I think we have a hole at top-6 wing and it needs to be addressed, but if you think we need a top-6 wing, and a franchise/top-pairing defenseman, and a "steal of a trade(for what?)" in order to just be "near" contending, then you are grossly underestimating this team.
Grossly underestimating a team that has been embarrassed in its last three playoff series? Grossly underestimating a team that has been ***** slapped in the playoffs? Grossly underestimating a team that clearly is regressing and couldn't score a goal to save its life? I don't think so. I think people grossly overestimate the level of talent we have. I think people grossly overestimate what some of our players can do.

We don't have enough talent up front to score consistently in the playoffs. The Sedins aren't the type of players who can carry this team offensively when it counts. Kesler isn't the type of player who shows up every night either, and his body is so fragile I don't see him being able to make it through a 4 round playoffs ever.

We also don't have a single defenseman who can skate as fluidly as someone like Shattenkirk. We don't have a defenseman who can lead a rush and provide a dangerous transition game. It's pretty obvious that our offense declined when Ehrhoff got hurt and when he left. Karlsson, Letang, Keith, Doughty, Boyle (to a lesser extent now), are all puck moving defensemen who can lead a rush and it's no surprise they're still in the playoffs. Granted they aren't the only reason as you need more than just a PMD, but they're a key element that teams need to succeed.

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Old
05-15-2013, 11:37 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Grossly underestimating a team that has been embarrassed in its last three playoff series? Grossly underestimating a team that has been ***** slapped in the playoffs? Grossly underestimating a team that clearly is regressing and couldn't score a goal to save its life? I don't think so. I think people grossly overestimate the level of talent we have. I think people grossly overestimate what some of our players can do.

We don't have enough talent up front to score consistently in the playoffs. The Sedins aren't the type of players who can carry this team offensively when it counts. Kesler isn't the type of player who shows up every night either, and his body is so fragile I don't see him being able to make it through a 4 round playoffs ever.

We also don't have a single defenseman who can skate as fluidly as someone like Shattenkirk. We don't have a defenseman who can lead a rush and provide a dangerous transition game. It's pretty obvious that our offense declined when Ehrhoff got hurt and when he left. Karlsson, Letang, Keith, Doughty, Boyle (to a lesser extent now), are all puck moving defensemen who can lead a rush and it's no surprise they're still in the playoffs. Granted they aren't the only reason as you need more than just a PMD, but they're a key element that teams need to succeed.
And who is the Rangers franchise PMD? How about the Redwings, despite losing Lidstrom? Edler is better than Kronwall or del Zotto. Sure it might be nice to get another PMD, maybe we can sign Gonchar, Streit, or Zidlicky in the offseason. But it's not a need in order to be a contender. Trying to offersheet Pietrangelo is a pipe dream.

I agree we need to score more goals. Adding Vanek + a few other tweaks could easily bump our G/G up by .5. How many teams have the equivalent of the Sedins, Vanek, and Kesler in their top-6? Pittsburgh and Chicago, maybe? And our goaltending is miles better than theirs.

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Old
05-15-2013, 12:14 PM
  #63
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why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why

hes really really bad awful **** bad hockey player doesnt know hockey bad at hockey and plays hockey really badly
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
this, he got major hype at the deadline because there was a lack of defenders available (and cause he went to Toronto)

He is a #7 at best and I doubt he is even an improvement over Alberts
That's all I'd want him for. He's not some saviour, but he's big and local, and younger then Hannan. For all the difference it makes, let's keep Alberts then. He does know the system.

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05-15-2013, 12:22 PM
  #64
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Which bargain bin players will Gillis sign this year?

Latendresse - RW/LW, 6'2 230lbs. Injury prone but a PWF with decent hands. 25 y/o.

Tin Man Connolly - RW/C. Playmaker. Injury prone and just spent a year in the AHL.

Boyd Gordon - Best 4C on the market, worth overpaying for?

Any of those players are better than the embarrassing haul of Barker, Vandemeer and Joslin in the past year.

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05-15-2013, 12:22 PM
  #65
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That's all I'd want him for. He's not some saviour, but he's big and local, and younger then Hannan. For all the difference it makes, let's keep Alberts then. He does know the system.
I hope we keep Prince Alberts but I have a feeling he'll be leaving in search of a regular shift somewhere.

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Old
05-15-2013, 12:23 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Which bargain bin players will Gillis sign this year?

Latendresse - RW/LW, 6'2 230lbs. Injury prone but a PWF with decent hands. 25 y/o.

Tin Man Connolly - RW/C. Playmaker. Injury prone and just spent a year in the AHL.

Boyd Gordon - Best 4C on the market, worth overpaying for?

Any of those players are better than the embarrassing haul of Barker, Vandemeer and Joslin in the past year.
Too many people here clamouring for Gordon, that won't happen. My money's on Guillame.

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05-15-2013, 12:25 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Which bargain bin players will Gillis sign this year?

Latendresse - RW/LW, 6'2 230lbs. Injury prone but a PWF with decent hands. 25 y/o.

Tin Man Connolly - RW/C. Playmaker. Injury prone and just spent a year in the AHL.

Boyd Gordon - Best 4C on the market, worth overpaying for?

Any of those players are better than the embarrassing haul of Barker, Vandemeer and Joslin in the past year.
Yeah, I wish he could have signed us someone like Garrison.

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05-15-2013, 12:29 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Which bargain bin players will Gillis sign this year?

Latendresse - RW/LW, 6'2 230lbs. Injury prone but a PWF with decent hands. 25 y/o.

Tin Man Connolly - RW/C. Playmaker. Injury prone and just spent a year in the AHL.

Boyd Gordon - Best 4C on the market, worth overpaying for?

Any of those players are better than the embarrassing haul of Barker, Vandemeer and Joslin in the past year.
I'd be interested in Rob Klinkhammer as well for the bottom 6.

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Old
05-15-2013, 12:29 PM
  #69
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Yeah, I wish he could have signed us someone like Garrison.
would have been a nice depth defender

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Old
05-15-2013, 12:30 PM
  #70
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Too many people here clamouring for Gordon, that won't happen. My money's on Guillame.
I'd love Latendresse because when he's healthy he's a very effective player; except that's not too often.

Think he stays in Ottawa though due to the young core.

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05-15-2013, 12:32 PM
  #71
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If, hypothetically, the Canucks were to trade Ryan Kesler - what type of return could they expect?

I would think they would need a youngish, legitimate scorer back.

Just for ***** and giggles, what sort of player(s) could you fetch in return?

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05-15-2013, 12:34 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Which bargain bin players will Gillis sign this year?

Latendresse - RW/LW, 6'2 230lbs. Injury prone but a PWF with decent hands. 25 y/o.

Tin Man Connolly - RW/C. Playmaker. Injury prone and just spent a year in the AHL.

Boyd Gordon - Best 4C on the market, worth overpaying for?

Any of those players are better than the embarrassing haul of Barker, Vandemeer and Joslin in the past year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
I'd be interested in Rob Klinkhammer as well for the bottom 6.
Latendresse would be a sweet pick up for our bottom six.

Connolly, lest he come in dirt dirt dirt cheap, isn't someone we should be looking at if we're compliance buying out Booth or letting Roy walk.

Gordon would be another good one.

Klinkhammer is a good one on paper, but I'd rather pony up for Torres if he becomes free.

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Old
05-15-2013, 12:49 PM
  #73
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Trade Schneider and a 1st for Couturier and Coburn.

Trade Edler + Schroeder for Yandle and Chipchura.

Sign Raffi Torres.

Buyout Booth

Buyout Ballard

Sign Ribiero.

Let Lapierre walk.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Kassian - Ribiero - Kesler
Higgins - Couturier - Hansen
Torres - Chipchura - Wiese

Hamhuis - Garrison
Coburn - Bieksa
Yandle - Tanev

Luongo
Lack

No idea if this fits capwise, probably not.

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05-15-2013, 01:14 PM
  #74
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Raffi is going to get a big suspension today/tomorrow (in person hearing offered so it will be 5+). He might have trouble finding work in all honesty.

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05-15-2013, 01:19 PM
  #75
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Raffi is going to get a big suspension today/tomorrow (in person hearing offered so it will be 5+). He might have trouble finding work in all honesty.
Which is straight BS as he didn't break a single rule.

Hitting hard isn't a penalty.

Stoll skating around like a little nancy....man up in the middle of the ice bud.

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