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New Arena Thread: Rogers Place? Yawn...

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Old
05-15-2013, 04:16 PM
  #151
worraps
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
What I'm getting at obviously is your notion that the ticket tax, by virtue of increasing ticket prices overall, is not going to matter much to Katz as the market will continue to pay pretty much whatever is asked providing the increments are not extreme in the moment. Probably everybody reading follows along with what I'm explaining to you.

In effect you're trying to argue that a 7% tax is going to cut into Katz max potential ticket price when 1000% increase over the last 20yrs has done nothing to abate demand.

I used the increases (yearly) to demonstrate they have no impact on tickets sold. The market seemingly will bare whatever price put in front of it within reason. I'm all for ticket tax and user pay.
What you don't seem to grasp is that Katz, as supplier of the product, is 100% entitled to recover as much of the consumer surplus you keep referencing as he can. The fact that he hasn't yet is an act of charity in itself. It has no bearing whatsoever on who the ticket tax is being borne by.

Ask yourself this: who has the choice to avoid paying the ticket tax? Potential ticket buyers or Katz?

Whatever he charges will be less because of the ticket tax.

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05-15-2013, 04:21 PM
  #152
joestevens29
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Dan Tencer ‏@dantencer 3m
Linda Sloan gets a 2nd round of questions. Mayor Mandel and Councillor Loken leave the room. Beautiful!

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05-15-2013, 04:22 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Really? Did you not see what happened in Vancouver not 3 weeks ago? A city praised for being super wealthy with high disposable income and having a large market? They couldn't even sell out a playoff game.
Did that have anything to do with prices though or lack of interest in a sub-par team that had failed one time to many? Think there would have been empty seats if they made it to the second round? Toronto is an obvious counterexample where the highest price tickets in the league were more than doubled and sold out in no time.

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05-15-2013, 04:23 PM
  #154
joestevens29
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Staples said on lowetides show that it is a contract that is protected from overruns. Which means if for whatever reason it goes above costs it is the contractor who must make up th difference.

So this is the final price for funding purposes.
That will not include extra work orders or changes, which happens on every job. If something is forgot such as the scoreboard, who pays for it? If they decide they want a more expensive tile in the bathrooms, who pays for that?

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05-15-2013, 04:26 PM
  #155
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Caterina asks the obvious question regarding Farbothers gurantee of provincial attitudes

paraphrase "you told us 100 million was going to be supported how can we assume anything regarding the province....

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05-15-2013, 04:27 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
That will not include extra work orders or changes, which happens on every job. If something is forgot such as the scoreboard, who pays for it? If they decide they want a more expensive tile in the bathrooms, who pays for that?
Well they've been working on design now for how long?? I hope they don't forget the scoreboard!

It's still prevents situations like the Olympic stadium in Montreal. If any costs rise due to inflation or shortages or any delay in construction it falls on the contractor. So there should be little overruns that would need to be made up.

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Old
05-15-2013, 04:29 PM
  #157
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Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics 23s
Caterina wants to know what CRL money would go to if there was no #yegarena. But of course, they would be no CRL without #yegarena. #yegcc

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05-15-2013, 04:30 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
That will not include extra work orders or changes, which happens on every job. If something is forgot such as the scoreboard, who pays for it? If they decide they want a more expensive tile in the bathrooms, who pays for that?
It'll have to be passed by council. Which could take a year or two...for each change lol.

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05-15-2013, 04:31 PM
  #159
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I love how the CRL can be sold as "no new taxes"

They're drawing a giant circle basically 5 miles around the rink and charging everyone more money to be located there.

How is that not a tax increase?? What happens if property values sink in the province?? Does the CRL reverse, will the businesses and residents located inside the CRL get money back from the city?

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05-15-2013, 04:32 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by David Staples View Post
Private sources (Katz/arena users) will pay 55% of arena, which is almost exactly the average private share of average NHL arena #Oilers
Just for perspective for those saying it shouldn't be funded with taxpayer money. It is done everywhere else and is a necessity to have top notch sports teams and entertainment.

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05-15-2013, 04:32 PM
  #161
joestevens29
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David Staples ‏@dstaples 4m
This is an average arena deal for an average NHL city. Katz and city both for the going rate. #Oilers

David Staples ‏@DavidStaplesYEG 6m
Private sources (Katz/arena users) will pay 55% of arena, which is almost exactly the average private share of average NHL arena #Oilers

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05-15-2013, 04:35 PM
  #162
joestevens29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoff View Post
Well they've been working on design now for how long?? I hope they don't forget the scoreboard!

It's still prevents situations like the Olympic stadium in Montreal. If any costs rise due to inflation or shortages or any delay in construction it falls on the contractor. So there should be little overruns that would need to be made up.
Oh for sure, just pointing it out as people aren't always aware of these things. Although in 6 years from now people will probably forget this and still question why the arena cost x amount more than reported.

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05-15-2013, 04:38 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
What you don't seem to grasp is that Katz, as supplier of the product, is 100% entitled to recover as much of the consumer surplus you keep referencing as he can. The fact that he hasn't yet is an act of charity in itself. It has no bearing whatsoever on who the ticket tax is being borne by.

Ask yourself this: who has the choice to avoid paying the ticket tax? Potential ticket buyers or Katz?

Whatever he charges will be less because of the ticket tax.
I made a clear distinction around 3 pages ago that I can at least see that argument in the context of games involving the Oilers and understand that by being owner of them he could make reasonable argument for retaining those rights.

But how about all the majority of events at the new arena? Katz is not the supplier of that product? What about that product?

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05-15-2013, 04:39 PM
  #164
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Interesting. Iveson supported Sohi's amendment. Will he change his vote to "yay" on the deal? Stay tuned on "As Edmonton Turns."

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Old
05-15-2013, 04:42 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoff View Post
Staples said on lowetides show that it is a contract that is protected from overruns. Which means if for whatever reason it goes above costs it is the contractor who must make up th difference.

So this is the final price for funding purposes.
As recently as two weeks ago it was cited that the city must first incur an 8M buck assessment of the project requirements prior to such a price guarantee being arranged. So its not clear what you cite is the case.

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Old
05-15-2013, 04:47 PM
  #166
I am the Liquor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
I love how the CRL can be sold as "no new taxes"

They're drawing a giant circle basically 5 miles around the rink and charging everyone more money to be located there.

How is that not a tax increase?? What happens if property values sink in the province?? Does the CRL reverse, will the businesses and residents located inside the CRL get money back from the city?
The sky is falling.

Just enjoy the majesty that is Oilers hockey.

Be sure to bring your nose plug.

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05-15-2013, 04:48 PM
  #167
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Id like to thank everyone for the updates, cant listen to the radio at work but can check this site. so keep them coming

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Old
05-15-2013, 04:49 PM
  #168
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@dantencer: This is setting up to be an 11-2 or 10-3 vote...guessing Sloan and Diotte against, not quite positive where Iveson or Caterina go.

Looks like it will pass. Good news.

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Old
05-15-2013, 04:55 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
That will not include extra work orders or changes, which happens on every job. If something is forgot such as the scoreboard, who pays for it? If they decide they want a more expensive tile in the bathrooms, who pays for that?
Does that mean they have a contractor who has put forward a successful bid for the design? Or am I way ahead?

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05-15-2013, 04:57 PM
  #170
joestevens29
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What's with Staples? The guy was on suicide watch the other day, today he is the most cheerful guy on twitter.

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Old
05-15-2013, 05:00 PM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics 23s
Caterina wants to know what CRL money would go to if there was no #yegarena. But of course, they would be no CRL without #yegarena. #yegcc
Your councilman, ladies and gentleman.

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Old
05-15-2013, 05:00 PM
  #172
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by Peter Zezel View Post
Does that mean they have a contractor who has put forward a successful bid for the design? Or am I way ahead?
I think ICON is managing the project with PCL building it. Something could've changed though.

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Old
05-15-2013, 05:01 PM
  #173
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I'm not an expert on civil matters but glad to hear that this is (likely) going through. There have been a lot of mistakes on both sides and this should've been done much sooner. That said better late than never and am looking forward to this development.

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Old
05-15-2013, 05:02 PM
  #174
joestevens29
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Yet to read it, but here's Iverson's view on why he supported

http://doniveson.ca/2013/05/15/final...ote-rationale/

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Old
05-15-2013, 05:08 PM
  #175
Angelus
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Originally Posted by Oilception View Post
Id like to thank everyone for the updates, cant listen to the radio at work but can check this site. so keep them coming
Same here. The constant stream of new info has been great, no need to keep checking the journal site. Thank you!

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