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Jim Coleman Conference Finals - New Jersey Swamp Devils vs. Pittsburgh AC

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Old
05-15-2013, 05:40 PM
  #76
EagleBelfour
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I'm not blaming Sturm for the way he handle the situation. I would of done exactly the same as he did. It's unfortunate, yes, but such a rare occurrence that a serie is equal in voting, let alone in the same number of games. What more can be done?

... And I'm one of those voters who didn't send the 'three stars', but I've been told in round 1 that they were useless ....

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05-15-2013, 05:57 PM
  #77
vecens24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I'm not blaming Sturm for the way he handle the situation. I would of done exactly the same as he did. It's unfortunate, yes, but such a rare occurrence that a serie is equal in voting, let alone in the same number of games. What more can be done?

... And I'm one of those voters who didn't send the 'three stars', but I've been told in round 1 that they were useless ....
I also didn't send in three stars. Since we said that they were useless from the beginning because of the difficulty counting them, this seems like a particularly terrible way of doing it.

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05-15-2013, 06:21 PM
  #78
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I'm not blaming Sturm for the way he handle the situation. I would of done exactly the same as he did. It's unfortunate, yes, but such a rare occurrence that a serie is equal in voting, let alone in the same number of games. What more can be done?

... And I'm one of those voters who didn't send the 'three stars', but I've been told in round 1 that they were useless ....
If it came down to 3 stars, I would have preferred to PM every GM who hadn't voted yet (or maybe just GMs who voted in other playoff rounds who hadn't voted yet) that at least one series was headed into OT. Then the first GM to vote determined the series. Kind of crappy to have a GM who wasn't following the ATD closely enough to vote in the allotted 3 days determine the thing, but maybe better than the 3 stars. I briefly considered doing that when the other semifinal was in the first tiebreak, then decided that # of games was a legit tiebreaker because it showed how close voting GMs thought it was. Plus GMs always complain that # of games never actually means anything.

Not blaming Sturm though - 3 stars were created to serve as a second tiebreak, so there was always the theoretical possiblity that they would be been used.

There was discussion in the past (in whatever draft it was where there was a trend to trade out of the first round) about eliminating them as a tiebreak because they favored GMs who had earlier picks, but the discussion quickly died out, probably because nobody ever thought they'd have to be used with the large voting pool that we have. We kind of had a unique situation where the 2 GMs collecting votes were in opposite semifinal series, so it made it so we couldn't really consult with each other about what to do. Couldn't really say "one of the series is tied; what should we do?" when we were each handling one series that the other was in.

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05-15-2013, 06:23 PM
  #79
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
I also didn't send in three stars. Since we said that they were useless from the beginning because of the difficulty counting them, this seems like a particularly terrible way of doing it.
I honestly didn't think 3 stars were still being used as a tiebreak after (I think it was arrbez in ATD2011) specifically asked that we stop using them in a draft where a few GMs traded out of the first round, but then I honestly didn't think we'd ever need to go past the # of games, so I didn't really think about it

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05-15-2013, 06:23 PM
  #80
Velociraptor
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Maybe for future ballots always makes sure there are an odd number of voters?

Truly shocking and very improbable the results of the series were similar to a tee, and it's too bad it had to be decided this way.

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05-15-2013, 06:35 PM
  #81
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
Definitely not how I wanted to win. If someone who didn't vote wanted to be the judge, jury, and executioner I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I thought you shutdown the comparison of team ranks between Armstrong and Larmer.

I'd hate to lose your future entries for something so strange. At a minimum I think this could be looked at in the ATD offseason too. Thanks for the series, if it weren't for those Pens last night I could have gotten back to your last post.
This is a mild annoyance compared to a lot of other things. Chiefly the incessant complaining particularly from GMs not actually willing to help make things run smoother, but I also just found some parts of the process really annoying - spending hours trying and failing to make a trade for the first 10 rounds or so was not exactly fun.

I think I might enjoy a role like 70s and Sturminator played in ATD2012

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05-15-2013, 09:55 PM
  #82
EagleBelfour
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I can understand why TDMM is unhappy, but the reality is that we have a schedule into place and we decide a limit date for the GM's to send their votes. Moreover, the three stars were asked to be put on the ballot since the installation of the playoffs to be mainly use as a second tie-breaker. You can't ask for Sturm to change the rules just because it's a very tight series. It would be more unfair to do so.

Actually, my only qualm about the voting process is reading hint before the allotted voting time is over on how close a series. I don't mind that we allow more time for voting, but it should be to receive more votes only, and not because a series is tight. I prefer determining another series with the three stars than asking people to vote because the vote is equal.

On that, I'm 100% behind the decision Sturm took. The Pittsburgh AC won fair and square, with the decided rules in place. No need to be ashamed BBS. If we want to change the voting system, we can discuss about it in the offseason and vote on it, like we do on every rules of the ATD.

Now, let's get this final underway!


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05-15-2013, 10:12 PM
  #83
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
I also didn't send in three stars. Since we said that they were useless from the beginning because of the difficulty counting them, this seems like a particularly terrible way of doing it.
I would be interested to know how many teams with PIT winning sent in 3 stars vs. how many teams with NJ winning sent in 3 stars. It very may well have been that more of the PIT voters bothered to send in 3 stars and that was the difference. Nothing Sturm could do about it, I think he did the right thing, but it would be interesting to hear after the Final is over.

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05-15-2013, 10:17 PM
  #84
seventieslord
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Ouch... what a way to lose. I wish there was a better way. What about soliciting votes until we have an odd number? With 18 votes cast, there were plenty more out there.

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05-15-2013, 10:20 PM
  #85
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Ouch... what a way to lose. I wish there was a better way. What about soliciting votes until we have an odd number? With 18 votes cast, there were plenty more out there.
I like this idea. Don't tell anyone that the series is tied and just pretend that the vote tabulator is allowing a little extra time. The first vote to come in decides the series.

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05-15-2013, 10:49 PM
  #86
EagleBelfour
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
I like this idea. Don't tell anyone that the series is tied and just pretend that the vote tabulator is allowing a little extra time. The first vote to come in decides the series.
Yes, odd numbers of voting is definitely a fine idea. Only drawback is now asking for the number of games become obsolete. Not that I mind.

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05-16-2013, 12:27 AM
  #87
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Yes, odd numbers of voting is definitely a fine idea. Only drawback is now asking for the number of games become obsolete. Not that I mind.
I was thinking that they would only extend voting when the number of games results in a tie and a tiebreaker is needed.

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Old
05-16-2013, 09:25 AM
  #88
tony d
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As others have said in the future let's make sure there's an odd number of voters who have voted, shame to see a good team like TDMM's have to go out this way. Also if the deadline passes and there's a tie in support maybe solicit the support of a past GM to break the tie.

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05-16-2013, 01:31 PM
  #89
Hobnobs
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TDMM going out this way only means that Pittsburgh managed to get that flukey goal in the OT it happens. Both of the teams were strong and one of them beat the other one.

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05-16-2013, 01:34 PM
  #90
Nalyd Psycho
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How do we ensure an odd number of votes?

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05-16-2013, 01:40 PM
  #91
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I've been extremely busy with work/vacation the past 3 weeks. If it's any consolation I would have voted for Pittsburgh in 7.

And to be clear, the reason I haven't been voting is because I could not devote enough time to read through each series as close as i'd like to and give an accurate vote. I didn't want a hurried vote to change a close outcome.

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05-16-2013, 01:47 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
I've been extremely busy with work/vacation the past 3 weeks. If it's any consolation I would have voted for Pittsburgh in 7.

And to be clear, the reason I haven't been voting is because I could not devote enough time to read through each series as close as i'd like to and give an accurate vote. I didn't want a hurried vote to change a close outcome.
Hopefully, you'll have time to vote in the final.

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