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New Arena Thread: Rogers Place? Yawn...

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Old
05-16-2013, 12:26 AM
  #251
Q Continuum
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You know what, I apologize.

I'm in a dark place right now financially, and I'm extremely frustrated. I shouldn't take it out here though.

My apologies.

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05-16-2013, 12:29 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by chrisj View Post
Fair point - I say they'd be at the new arena because I personally don't truly believe the existing Rexall Place will exist past 2016, no matter what Northlands currently says.

Actually, if I was a betting person, Katz will buy the Rush before the new arena opens like the Flames purchased the Roughnecks in Calgary... because if he doesn't, your second point will be correct, they won't remain here at all.



.
Thanks for the clarification. Could be you're right but I don't think Bruce Urban, and the Edmonton Rush are really Katz cup of tea. Again it would be a subpar low marketable product with low ticket prices occupying some dates that are likely better filled.

Can't really see it happening. Thats not at all a big money product in terms of tickets, merchandise sold or concessions. Plus that to have an over 18K rink housing 7K attendance lacrosse seems like a misfit.

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05-16-2013, 12:31 AM
  #253
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IT also doesn't help that the Rush have had almost no success as a franchise. Nobody really cares because even in their best year, they are always the bridesmaid, never the bride.

I don't see the team lasting.

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05-16-2013, 12:36 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by NewOilRising View Post
IT also doesn't help that the Rush have had almost no success as a franchise. Nobody really cares because even in their best years, they are always the bridesmaids, never the brides.

I don't see the team lasting.
Yeah, I don't know what Bruce Urban is thinking. This was never going to fly here. Edmonton is primarily a hockey town.

Urban seems to think this is a bigger deal than it is. NLL would never have setup in Edmonton if it was not bleeding teams for decades.

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05-16-2013, 12:39 AM
  #255
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I think the NLL could work in Edmonton, but I think first impressions are important, and they spent the first few years with an awful product on and off the field.

I'm not sure they can recover.

I think Urban keeps pumping money into it because "it's cool to own a sports franchise".

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05-16-2013, 12:39 AM
  #256
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Wouldn't t make more sense anyway to have the Oil Kings and Rush play at Northlands while the big boys play at the DTA? Even if the DTA will only be marginally bigger seating wise, more seats will show more holes in Edmonton's already shallow support for both teams.

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05-16-2013, 12:48 AM
  #257
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Mayors in reality have very little pull in the grand scheme of things. They have a vote and i believe a tie breaker vote other than that they have no more vote power than an alderman.
All correct except that mayors can't break tie votes.

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05-16-2013, 12:55 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by chrisj View Post
I think the NLL could work in Edmonton, but I think first impressions are important, and they spent the first few years with an awful product on and off the field.

I'm not sure they can recover.

I think Urban keeps pumping money into it because "it's cool to own a sports franchise".
lol

I stated exactly that but then thought better of it and deleted. Namely because on another board Bruce has people in the org posting on behalf of the club and reporting any non favorable comment about the club.


whoops, now I darn done it..

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05-16-2013, 12:57 AM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOilRising View Post
Wouldn't t make more sense anyway to have the Oil Kings and Rush play at Northlands while the big boys play at the DTA? Even if the DTA will only be marginally bigger seating wise, more seats will show more holes in Edmonton's already shallow support for both teams.
I agree.

Having two venues would be beneficial in many ways. It would certainly allow Edmonton to host more events.

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05-16-2013, 01:47 AM
  #260
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This is probably irrelevant to most of you, but I'll share anyways. I was talking to a lady who is a director of Edmonton Inline tonight, and apparently there is a new public rink being built in the downtown development which they plan on replacing Oliver Arena with. Oliver will be a full time lacrosse/inline/ball hockey rink, and Edmonton Inline is considering purchasing new tiles to lay down permanently on the surface.

Awesome news for anyone who plays inline hockey, especially after experiencing the abomination of tiles used at Russ Barnes.

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05-16-2013, 06:06 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by NewOilRising View Post
Wouldn't t make more sense anyway to have the Oil Kings and Rush play at Northlands while the big boys play at the DTA? Even if the DTA will only be marginally bigger seating wise, more seats will show more holes in Edmonton's already shallow support for both teams.
The only thing is can Edmonton support these two venues with enough games/events to post a profit? I would imagine Rush and Oil Kings games wouldn't be enough to keep Northlands afloat. Then how do concerts/events get split? Most would probably want to take place in the new arena.

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05-16-2013, 08:51 AM
  #262
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What else would $550 million buy?

A very good article that all local taxpayers should read.
There is a reason why no one has spent money on a marina or promoting fishing derby's in the North Saskatchewan river.

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05-16-2013, 08:53 AM
  #263
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Two of my favourite sports teams are gettin' new homes. I can already tell you that when the new stadium is built in Edmonton, I will definitely be dropping cash in an around the arena district when I visit.

I think the fact that Edmonton is making it a "district" is key to the project. Not that I don't see the new Riders stadium being successful, but they're building it by itself out by the Brandt Centre in Regina (Southwest end of Regina). I think Regina is missing the boat on a huge opportunity building it way out there instead of downtown.

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05-16-2013, 08:54 AM
  #264
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Just curious but why would you think the Edmonton Rush would end up playing at the new Arena. Theres no Oiler affiliation with this club, they would only sell a fraction of the building, and would represent a poor use of the facility.

I suspect they stay where they are if they even remain here as a club as they are losing money year after year.

As far as "rich" I wouldn't put it that way but when lowest cost tickets are probably 100 bucks for most events its a more select market. People seldom seem to consider the layout of the new arena and that as described has a lot of luxury, loge, suite, and party seating but very little, if any cheapseats type sectioning. Its a whole different layout then what people are used to at Rexall. There is no "nosebleed" level in the new build. The top level at the new arena is still all very marketable seating. They won't go cheap. Only Oil Kings, and Curling, if located at the new facility, will be easily affordable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj View Post
Fair point - I say they'd be at the new arena because I personally don't truly believe the existing Rexall Place will exist past 2016, no matter what Northlands currently says.

Actually, if I was a betting person, Katz will buy the Rush before the new arena opens like the Flames purchased the Roughnecks in Calgary... because if he doesn't, your second point will be correct, they won't remain here at all.
For whatever reason I feel the same. He'll add to his Rexall sports empire.

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05-16-2013, 09:00 AM
  #265
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It will be very very bad if Katz gets the Rush, the moment they show no signs of making money they will be shelved, ditched and spit on, like our baseball teams and minor league hockey teams.

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05-16-2013, 09:00 AM
  #266
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If this arena will turn Edmonton into a world class city as some people propose, then there should be no reason that it would not be able to support a second arena (though likely closing off some areas to cut seating down to 10/12K. Seems to me there would be lots of events, things like Disney on Ice, that may prefer smaller venues, cheaper prices, and so forth, which would make Rexall Place a better option.

Meanwhile, Rexall Palace can be used for the premium events.

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05-16-2013, 09:02 AM
  #267
joestevens29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Thanks for the clarification. Could be you're right but I don't think Bruce Urban, and the Edmonton Rush are really Katz cup of tea. Again it would be a subpar low marketable product with low ticket prices occupying some dates that are likely better filled.

Can't really see it happening. Thats not at all a big money product in terms of tickets, merchandise sold or concessions. Plus that to have an over 18K rink housing 7K attendance lacrosse seems like a misfit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Yeah, I don't know what Bruce Urban is thinking. This was never going to fly here. Edmonton is primarily a hockey town.

Urban seems to think this is a bigger deal than it is. NLL would never have setup in Edmonton if it was not bleeding teams for decades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj View Post
I think the NLL could work in Edmonton, but I think first impressions are important, and they spent the first few years with an awful product on and off the field.

I'm not sure they can recover.

I think Urban keeps pumping money into it because "it's cool to own a sports franchise".
What is the Oil kings attendance? If you are running the building I don't think having 8 dates is going to make or break you. Would be filler.

Dave Jamieson was talking about how the Rush screwed up when they first came to town. They are now not marketing it as a gimmick and are reaching out to the community and trying to market it better.

Katz running the building and owning the Rush would be a massive benefit to their success.

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05-16-2013, 09:04 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
It will be very very bad if Katz gets the Rush, the moment they show no signs of making money they will be shelved, ditched and spit on, like our baseball teams and minor league hockey teams.
So the Oil Kings have been shelved? Capitals were only shelved because the league was a joke.
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Originally Posted by Section337 View Post
If this arena will turn Edmonton into a world class city as some people propose, then there should be no reason that it would not be able to support a second arena (though likely closing off some areas to cut seating down to 10/12K. Seems to me there would be lots of events, things like Disney on Ice, that may prefer smaller venues, cheaper prices, and so forth, which would make Rexall Place a better option.

Meanwhile, Rexall Palace can be used for the premium events.
I do wonder, what is the cost to make the changes to Rexall to get it to 10-12k? What are going to be the costs going foward for upgrades and generally upkeep?

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05-16-2013, 09:13 AM
  #269
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I do wonder, what is the cost to make the changes to Rexall to get it to 10-12k? What are going to be the costs going foward for upgrades and generally upkeep?
Yep, a business case would be needed as to whether it makes sense. Plus I would like to see the city not being the primary funder, but if somebody (even Northlands) wants to make a attempt at keeping it going, they should be able to do so.

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05-16-2013, 09:22 AM
  #270
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Yep, a business case would be needed as to whether it makes sense. Plus I would like to see the city not being the primary funder, but if somebody (even Northlands) wants to make a attempt at keeping it going, they should be able to do so.
And where is Northlands going to get the funding from?

Kinda why I never brought it up before as it would just add to the whole amount of taxpayer money being used.

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05-16-2013, 09:42 AM
  #271
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So the Oil Kings have been shelved? Capitals were only shelved because the league was a joke.

I do wonder, what is the cost to make the changes to Rexall to get it to 10-12k? What are going to be the costs going foward for upgrades and generally upkeep?
I said minor league hockey not junior hockey and you can bet 100% that if the oil kings went from being a cash maker to a cash loser they would be tossed in two seconds.

The capitals were shelved because the league lost teams and it was going to cost too much to continue a few years back and the oilers said they would look into other opportunities and promptly did nothing at all.

Toronto roadrunners, 'we have big plans!' Deep sixed a year later.

If you like a minor sport you better not let the katz group get their claws into it. I wonder if they still have exclusive rights to the baseball park which the city put buckets of money into.

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05-16-2013, 09:52 AM
  #272
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I said minor league hockey not junior hockey and you can bet 100% that if the oil kings went from being a cash maker to a cash loser they would be tossed in two seconds.

The capitals were shelved because the league lost teams and it was going to cost too much to continue a few years back and the oilers said they would look into other opportunities and promptly did nothing at all.

Toronto roadrunners, 'we have big plans!' Deep sixed a year later.

If you like a minor sport you better not let the katz group get their claws into it. I wonder if they still have exclusive rights to the baseball park which the city put buckets of money into.
You are actually shocked they let the Roadrunners go? I was never under the impression that was a long-term solution. Just a way to see our prospects first hand while the NHL was on lockout.

As for the Capitals and Katz having a team, everyone knows that it's not an easy fix.

The prospects are playing at Telus Field again this year, so I don't know where this Katz has a strangle hold on Telus Field has come from the past few weeks.

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05-16-2013, 10:25 AM
  #273
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If I remember correctly, the Capitals was shelved because there was only 3 teams left, and one of them was in Hawaii.

Yeah, total economical sense to continue with that.

People can hate Katz for what he does, but the handling of the Capitals is not one they should bring up, as it was completely out of their control and no sensible person would ever continue with it.

On the other hand, if you were willing to absorb something like $200,000 in losses every year for a business, all the power to you.

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05-16-2013, 11:12 AM
  #274
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I said minor league hockey not junior hockey and you can bet 100% that if the oil kings went from being a cash maker to a cash loser they would be tossed in two seconds.

The capitals were shelved because the league lost teams and it was going to cost too much to continue a few years back and the oilers said they would look into other opportunities and promptly did nothing at all.

Toronto roadrunners, 'we have big plans!' Deep sixed a year later.

If you like a minor sport you better not let the katz group get their claws into it. I wonder if they still have exclusive rights to the baseball park which the city put buckets of money into.


You're blaming of the Bogeyman has become outright hysterical.

How in the hell is the baseball situation in this city Katz's fault? Holy ****.

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05-16-2013, 11:18 AM
  #275
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yes.

The ticket tax comes from the pot of money people are willing to spend on events.

If demand dictates that the price people are willing to pay for tickets is $100 each then Katz cannot get that $100 per ticket, he can only get $100 minus the ticket tax.
So you a truly adjust your driving on a daily basis to account for swings in gas prices? Do you walk partway to work everyday and just adjust where you park based on whether gas went up or down 5%? Hard to believe. Do you also eat less now since food prices have gone up? Do you expect us to believe that?

Your theory assumes people are already at their max purchase price and that there is no elasticity in that price, which is a very poor (and incorrect) assumption to make.

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