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USA Hockey goes with NHL Standard of Play

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Old
09-29-2006, 10:01 AM
  #51
Headcoach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
As a referee..this is going to get ugly in the first month with half the parents having no idea what the hell is going on, and even some coaches will be dumbfounded why their kid is going to the box(those are the worst coaches since they dint even read anything USA Hockey sends them)
I have already seen it get ugly. I was in a local tournament here in Phoenix September 1st. All games had strong calls with the exception of the Championship. The Ref said that he wanted to let the kids play!

That is the wrong attitude. Although there were different ref's throughout the tournament, the one doing the last game should be consistent with all the rest of the game and calls.

The only problem that I see with the new "Standard of Play" rules is that the calling by ref's is open to Interpretation. What one call might mean a penalty for you, might not be a penalty for the next ref.

If we are going to be held to these new rule changes, we need a Standard of Referee education. There should be a person (Head Ref) in the stands evaluating the calls of the game. Then get together with the ref at the end of the game and go over the call that were good or bad. and have the Ref that is doing the game, have an open mind and be coachable. Maybe recording the game and sitting down with all the ref's within the city or town could help get them all get on the same page.

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Old
09-29-2006, 02:26 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Headcoach View Post
I have already seen it get ugly. I was in a local tournament here in Phoenix September 1st. All games had strong calls with the exception of the Championship. The Ref said that he wanted to let the kids play!

That is the wrong attitude. Although there were different ref's throughout the tournament, the one doing the last game should be consistent with all the rest of the game and calls.

The only problem that I see with the new "Standard of Play" rules is that the calling by ref's is open to Interpretation. What one call might mean a penalty for you, might not be a penalty for the next ref.

If we are going to be held to these new rule changes, we need a Standard of Referee education. There should be a person (Head Ref) in the stands evaluating the calls of the game. Then get together with the ref at the end of the game and go over the call that were good or bad. and have the Ref that is doing the game, have an open mind and be coachable. Maybe recording the game and sitting down with all the ref's within the city or town could help get them all get on the same page.

Head coach

Agree with you 100%. The problem is some of those older referees that have been reffing for years and years don't want to change how they call there game up...sure they still make some of the stricter infractions now called...but in a big game they have that mentality "let the kids play" or with 5 minutes left in a tied game they won't call the minor hook.

If all the referees aren't on the same page then its going to look bad. But its still early and like coaches and players, us refereeing are learning and perfecting it as well.

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09-29-2006, 02:32 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Gino 14 View Post
That is wrong. This is from the USA Hockey site:

Lifting an Opponent Stick and Stick Presses

The use of the stick to lift an opponent’s stick and gain possession of the puck, or prevent them from gaining
possession of the puck, is considered a good defensive play that should not be penalized. Lifting a non-puck carrier’s
stick in a manner that does not impede their progress is also allowable under the rules. In addition, the use of the stick
to check an opponent’s stick, or press the opponent’s stick to the ice or boards, is a good defensive play as long as it is
done on the lower portion of the stick shaft and the intended purpose is to dislodge the puck or prevent the opponent
from playing the puck.

Here's the link:
http://usahockey.com/usa_hockey/offi...sop_interpret/
How often does lifting the stick not impede something? Even if it in the front of the net, he is impeding the player from receiving a pass, or deflecting a puck (im talking about before the puck is coming)...once the puck is going toward him he can lift the stick which is fine.

If he is lifting the guys stick and that player is trying to put his stick on the ice and both are using there strength to either keep it up or keep it down then that is impeding him and a penalty.

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09-29-2006, 06:02 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
How often does lifting the stick not impede something? Even if it in the front of the net, he is impeding the player from receiving a pass, or deflecting a puck
The rule is impeding progress, not from receiving a pass or deflecting a pass, impeding progress.


Quote:
If he is lifting the guys stick and that player is trying to put his stick on the ice and both are using there strength to either keep it up or keep it down then that is impeding him and a penalty.
If both players continue towards the net, it's not a penalty.

It amazes me how people read the rules and then come up with a scenario that does not acurately reflect the case in point.

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09-29-2006, 09:25 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gino 14 View Post
The rule is impeding progress, not from receiving a pass or deflecting a pass, impeding progress.




If both players continue towards the net, it's not a penalty.

It amazes me how people read the rules and then come up with a scenario that does not acurately reflect the case in point.

K bud. You interpret it the way you want(which is wrong) but don't go crying when the referee is calling you for a penalty and you whip out the old "I read on the USA site its legal!!"

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09-30-2006, 06:13 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
K bud. You interpret it the way you want(which is wrong) but don't go crying when the referee is calling you for a penalty and you whip out the old "I read on the USA site its legal!!"
Sorry I wasn't able to tell something that makes you all warm and fuzzy. I already showed you rule references where you were incorrect, I didn't realize you were going to react so badly. Ah, to be young and all knowing again. Carry on with your fantasies, someday you may see the truth.

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09-30-2006, 09:47 AM
  #57
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The really sad part is that its rare in these situations. The refs all have different interpretations. Gino here has a different take on it than any of the Refs I spoke with this morning. Even those refs couldnt totally agree on the way to make these calls. In hte mean time some refs will allow the old ways to be played and some are going to call it too tight making the kids unable to play the game...hope time will sort it all out.

The one hting they do Agree with Gino on is progress meaning skating/speed. However it seems Gino is willing to let it go as long as they continue to the net. The gist of the call isnt based on forward progress being stopped. EVEN SLOWING THE PLAYER progress has been affected and would be called. That includes taking a player out of balance, making them drop a step or break their stride....kinda hard to stick check someone and NOT do any of those things. Still, every other ref I have spoken with since the new standards has said a stick check away from hte play is an illagal tactic and is to be called strictly.

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09-30-2006, 10:47 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeD View Post
The really sad part is that its rare in these situations. The refs all have different interpretations. Gino here has a different take on it than any of the Refs I spoke with this morning. Even those refs couldnt totally agree on the way to make these calls. In hte mean time some refs will allow the old ways to be played and some are going to call it too tight making the kids unable to play the game...hope time will sort it all out.

The one thing they do Agree with Gino on is progress meaning skating/speed. However it seems Gino is willing to let it go as long as they continue to the net. The gist of the call isnt based on forward progress being stopped. EVEN SLOWING THE PLAYER progress has been affected and would be called. That includes taking a player out of balance, making them drop a step or break their stride....kinda hard to stick check someone and NOT do any of those things. Still, every other ref I have spoken with since the new standards has said a stick check away from the play is an illegal tactic and is to be called strictly.
Well, calling it the old ways...id have to say those referees should just hang the skates up. If they cant adapt to the new style then they are going to hurt referees all over the place(the 90% who WILL call it the correct way). The refs who will call the strict penalties are the ones who should stay. Its not up to them how to call the game..its up to USA Hockey in which they are a part of. Luckily in my area we have scouts watching the referees all the time so the ones who don't feel like calling the how its suppose to...well they won't be doing games over a mite level by mid season, even if they have been calling games for 20 years.

But like i said in a previous post, this is new for referees also...everyone..players, coaches and definitely referees are still learning it, there is definitely going to be inconsistencies between refs and games(then again isn't there always?).

Key is play the man, not the stick. Gain body possession without resorting to lifting the stick, hooking, slashing, etc...and you will be fine. This will weed out the lazy players from the skilled ones....and i'll admit im the lazy one in my adult league if i get beat ....ill learn one day to change my ways of playing...hopefully


edit- just read Gino is a ref...oh god..help those poor kids who have him to ref their games. Well actually help those poor refs in his organization who he is going to make look bad (well actually..he'll make himself look bad when the guy at the blue line has to call the penalty because Gino cant understand a rule). Then again hes acts like a 15 year old so i doubt he is doing anything above a squirt game anyway..especially since he can't understand the rules.


Last edited by FLYLine27: 09-30-2006 at 10:56 PM.
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Old
10-01-2006, 06:28 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
edit- just read Gino is a ref...oh god..help those poor kids who have him to ref their games. Well actually help those poor refs in his organization who he is going to make look bad (well actually..he'll make himself look bad when the guy at the blue line has to call the penalty because Gino cant understand a rule). Then again hes acts like a 15 year old so i doubt he is doing anything above a squirt game anyway..especially since he can't understand the rules.

As I stated before, to be so young and all-knowing as Fly. When you consider that there are at least three places in here where you have misinterpruted the rules that I have bothered to point out, not with my words, but with USA Hockey rulings, to attack me is sad. How did you ever make it into an adult league? It wasn't due to your maturity.
As for your competency and qualifications as a ref, your comments abouts others, your comments about me, and your lack of knowledge in regards to rules speaks volumes.

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10-01-2006, 10:30 AM
  #60
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I gotta agree that Fly is a bit over the line. Gino and I may not see eye to eye but we can debate/discuss it with mutual respect and not get personal about stuff. We can both learn from it. It has never been my intention to insult anyone in this topic. If I came across that way, my apologies.

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