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Old
09-29-2006, 11:36 AM
  #1
I Am Chariot
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Orr-Dubinsky-Lessard

This looks like fun....

Orr with the Hat Trick!

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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
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09-29-2006, 11:41 AM
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I'm assuming you mean Howe hat tricks? Goal-assist,fight?

Well that goal and assist would be about it for the season then =)

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09-29-2006, 11:46 AM
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And that goal and assist may help cement his place on the team..

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Old
09-29-2006, 11:47 AM
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Edge
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I can understand everyone's desire for having an enforcer who can actually play, but I am just puzzled as to what anyone is using as a basis for thinking Orr is that type of player?

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09-29-2006, 11:58 AM
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FLYLine24
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You should post the entire lineup:

Shanahan-Nylander-Jagr
Straka-Cullen-Hall
Hollweg-Betts-Prucha
Orr-Dubinsky-Lessard

Defense:
Kasparitis-Staal
Rachunek-Malik
A. Ward-Tyutin (Good to see they are still paired together)

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Old
09-29-2006, 12:18 PM
  #6
Ola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
You should post the entire lineup:

Shanahan-Nylander-Jagr
Straka-Cullen-Hall
Hollweg-Betts-Prucha
Orr-Dubinsky-Lessard

Defense:
Kasparitis-Staal
Rachunek-Malik
A. Ward-Tyutin (Good to see they are still paired together)
Thanks FLY!

Renney dooing the routine, testing everyone with anyone buiz!

I think the 4th line is kind of interesting. Seems like he is testing a all grinding line, and Dubinsky are put in a situation where he alone have to take care of every single transition play. If Dubi can carry that line, Renney ought to know that he could handle a center role in the NHL.

With Immonen, Ward and Dawes out, it do seems like Renney wants to see the diffrence between the team with a grinding 4th line tonight, and a skilled 4th line tomorrow!

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Old
09-29-2006, 12:35 PM
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Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Thanks FLY!

Renney dooing the routine, testing everyone with anyone buiz!

I think the 4th line is kind of interesting. Seems like he is testing a all grinding line, and Dubinsky are put in a situation where he alone have to take care of every single transition play. If Dubi can carry that line, Renney ought to know that he could handle a center role in the NHL.

With Immonen, Ward and Dawes out, it do seems like Renney wants to see the diffrence between the team with a grinding 4th line tonight, and a skilled 4th line tomorrow!
IF Dubi is still in competiton for a spot on the NHL roster, putting him with slugs like Lessard and Orr doesn't really give him much help...But I'm sure the coaching staff has something in mind....Given that Hollweg is more then likely a 4th liner, might have been nice to pair those two..Eh, doesn't matter much I guess

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Old
09-29-2006, 01:20 PM
  #8
Ola
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
IF Dubi is still in competiton for a spot on the NHL roster, putting him with slugs like Lessard and Orr doesn't really give him much help...But I'm sure the coaching staff has something in mind....Given that Hollweg is more then likely a 4th liner, might have been nice to pair those two..Eh, doesn't matter much I guess
I think the big question surrounding Dubinsky is how he can handle the transition play, he won't get any help at all in that department from Lessard and Orr.

I think this is a great move by Renney, if Dubinsky can make that line float tonight, he have pretty much proven that the transition game won't be a problem if he plays with a Ward and Hossa.

If he where to play with Straka and Jagr, the transition game wouldn't be a big problem tonight, Dubinsky would probably shine, but it wouldn't prove anything. Now its all up to him!

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Old
09-29-2006, 02:12 PM
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CM Lundqvist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I can understand everyone's desire for having an enforcer who can actually play, but I am just puzzled as to what anyone is using as a basis for thinking Orr is that type of player?
The same thing I was asking myself in the offseason when people were bashing me, for saying the Slats should have gone out and signed Laraque or brought back Simon.

I'm glad to see that someone's on my side.

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Old
09-29-2006, 02:25 PM
  #10
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I wouldn't have signed Laraque or brought back Simon (too slow) both Orr and Lessard can skate regularly.

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Old
09-29-2006, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
I wouldn't have signed Laraque or brought back Simon (too slow) both Orr and Lessard can skate regularly.
There's a reason Francis Lessard hs only played 6 games in the NHL since 2004 and that's becasue he's a sucky hockey player...And all of Laraque, SImon and Orr were pretty much worthless last year..DOn;t see why things will change...If you want one for insurance, fine, but one is enough and you don't waste too much coin on them like Laraque (who also got a no-trade) and Simon

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Old
09-29-2006, 03:26 PM
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Who is in net tonight?

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Old
09-29-2006, 03:41 PM
  #13
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If dubi plays, it's quite possible he's playing on a line with slugs anyways so we got to see if he can make his lemonade with these two proverbial 4th line lemons.

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Old
09-29-2006, 05:03 PM
  #14
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In fairness to Simon and Laraque, I do think they can still play in the new NHL.

I think we tend to forget that Laraque is already about 30 and Simon is already closing around 34.

The problem isn't that they can fight, but rather that they are getting up there.

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Old
09-29-2006, 05:38 PM
  #15
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
In fairness to Simon and Laraque, I do think they can still play in the new NHL.

I think we tend to forget that Laraque is already about 30 and Simon is already closing around 34.

The problem isn't that they can fight, but rather that they are getting up there.
No doubt they can fight. Laraque is still the best and most feared fighter in the game. Bt far. But it doesn't mean much anymore...Maybe it scares a few goons away but it doesn't change the way teams play. He also accomplishes little on the ice and hits very little(because of his skating) ...Saw less of Simon last year, but was far from impressed with his game (but, he can still fight)

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Old
09-29-2006, 07:12 PM
  #16
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I think both guys are skilled enough to make it in the new NHL, what's working against them is age at this point.

Are the going to be stars? No, but I do think they can contribute.

I think the misconception is that people think an enforcer STOPS people from doing things. He doesn't necessarily do that. If he did, who would he really be fighting?

I think what those guys do is make their teammates a little braver and give those guys the confidence to go out there and do their thing with the reassurance that someone has their back.

You're never going to stop players from trying to take liberties, but you can have them do so at a cost.

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Old
09-29-2006, 10:12 PM
  #17
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I think both guys are skilled enough to make it in the new NHL, what's working against them is age at this point.

Are the going to be stars? No, but I do think they can contribute.

I think the misconception is that people think an enforcer STOPS people from doing things. He doesn't necessarily do that. If he did, who would he really be fighting?

I think what those guys do is make their teammates a little braver and give those guys the confidence to go out there and do their thing with the reassurance that someone has their back.

You're never going to stop players from trying to take liberties, but you can have them do so at a cost.
Persoanlly, I think the misconception is that, these days, goons allow their teamates to play braver..I just don't see it..The rangers lst year with Orr is a prime example...It did not make Jagr, Starka, Nylander, Sykora any braver.......ANd while we're at it, I indeed think what is working against Laraque (and SImon to a lesser extent) is his lack of speed and skill relative to the game today...Oh well, difference in opinions is what makes the world go round...

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Old
09-29-2006, 10:52 PM
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I kind of have to go with Edge here

Go back to the Pitt game when Cross took down Jagr after the whistle & Armstrong slew-footed Henke. I think the fact that they knew that they were playing a soft team propelled those type of players to play with an edge they never knew they had. In today's NHL, it is not so much that you need someone to take another person out, it is that you need someone to whom other players know that they will have to answer to. That and you need players (hopefully that will also be the same type of player we are discussing as well) who will extract an "eye for an eye" mentality on the ice.

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Old
09-29-2006, 11:17 PM
  #19
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We need a bad *** MOFO than can brawl AND skate AND play reasonably smart. A pretty tough combination to find. Which is why they are so valuable IMO.

I'm sure we'll keep looking.

Orr has improved himself and that is a good thing.

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Old
09-30-2006, 12:14 AM
  #20
Edge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Persoanlly, I think the misconception is that, these days, goons allow their teamates to play braver..I just don't see it..The rangers lst year with Orr is a prime example...It did not make Jagr, Starka, Nylander, Sykora any braver.......ANd while we're at it, I indeed think what is working against Laraque (and SImon to a lesser extent) is his lack of speed and skill relative to the game today...Oh well, difference in opinions is what makes the world go round...
I disagree, and don't really see how Orr even figures into that example considering how often he didn't even play.

I'd also like to draw a distinction between a "Goon" and an "Enforcer". I'm not talking about an Orr or a Twist or someone along those lines. I'm talking about someone who can play and fight well.

Laraque and Simon don't suffer from a lack of skill, both have good seasons in the past. At this point yes they are a little slower, but so are other guys who continue to have a role.

It's not even necessarily a guy who is the best fighter in the league. I think a guy like Hollweg (who isn't going to win every fight though he has made great strides) at least has his teammates no they have his back.

I think what's happening again is that any player who fights a decent amount is being labeled a goon and personally I'm not really talking about a goon (one reason I am not a huge Orr fan).

What I'm talking about is a player who can energize his team, keep other people on their toes and basically send the message "We'll go right back at you".

He's not necessarily Mike Tyson on skates. The guys like the Tucker, Hollweg, Janssen, etc. etc. People play braver with those guys around. They don't necessarily stop each other from playing that style of game but as a player there's no worse feeling on that ice than feeling like your team isn't prepared to respond to what the other team dishes out. That only goes so far before your team is simply worn down (and I believe that's what we saw last year).

I'm not advocated goonery, I'm advocating guys who can play AND intimidate. Guys like Shanahan and maybe seeing more development from guys like Hollweg and consistency from Hall. Dubinsky is a guy who could eventually fill a role like.

We needn't look any further than our own past to see how players who weren't "goons" changed the face of the game. Messier was never the league's top fighter, but kept people on their toes and wouldn't take any crap out there. Graves was another.

As I said earlier, I really don't think Orr is that guy but that's a reflection on him rather than the actual role.

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Old
09-30-2006, 01:27 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I disagree, and don't really see how Orr even figures into that example considering how often he didn't even play.

I'd also like to draw a distinction between a "Goon" and an "Enforcer". I'm not talking about an Orr or a Twist or someone along those lines. I'm talking about someone who can play and fight well.

Laraque and Simon don't suffer from a lack of skill, both have good seasons in the past. At this point yes they are a little slower, but so are other guys who continue to have a role.

It's not even necessarily a guy who is the best fighter in the league. I think a guy like Hollweg (who isn't going to win every fight though he has made great strides) at least has his teammates no they have his back.

I think what's happening again is that any player who fights a decent amount is being labeled a goon and personally I'm not really talking about a goon (one reason I am not a huge Orr fan).

What I'm talking about is a player who can energize his team, keep other people on their toes and basically send the message "We'll go right back at you".

He's not necessarily Mike Tyson on skates. The guys like the Tucker, Hollweg, Janssen, etc. etc. People play braver with those guys around. They don't necessarily stop each other from playing that style of game but as a player there's no worse feeling on that ice than feeling like your team isn't prepared to respond to what the other team dishes out. That only goes so far before your team is simply worn down (and I believe that's what we saw last year).

I'm not advocated goonery, I'm advocating guys who can play AND intimidate. Guys like Shanahan and maybe seeing more development from guys like Hollweg and consistency from Hall. Dubinsky is a guy who could eventually fill a role like.

We needn't look any further than our own past to see how players who weren't "goons" changed the face of the game. Messier was never the league's top fighter, but kept people on their toes and wouldn't take any crap out there. Graves was another.

As I said earlier, I really don't think Orr is that guy but that's a reflection on him rather than the actual role.
we got some in hartford byers, kozak, bahensky, Callahan, Hoffman

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Old
09-30-2006, 12:09 PM
  #22
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Nothing wrong with a surplus of tough guys, they will always have a spot, just ask their teammates

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09-30-2006, 02:24 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by AHall18NYR View Post
we got some in hartford byers, kozak, bahensky, Callahan, Hoffman
Byers could, I think that's what they hope for Kozak as well.

Callahan is more fiesty than a drop the gloves type and I don't think you'd get the quite from him.

Bahensky won't back down really but I don't see him as a fighter at the pro levels.

Hoffman is a waste of space and simply cannot play.

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Old
09-30-2006, 02:24 PM
  #24
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Nothing wrong with a surplus of tough guys, they will always have a spot, just ask their teammates
They will, the thing is that it's going to be what you see now. A few games here and there, but not a regular shift.

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