HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Maple Leafs GM Dave Nonis has his work cut out for him

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-16-2013, 09:27 AM
  #26
ACC1224
Steelers 1 - 1
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 28,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinto View Post
Agreed, he is still a good defenseman and his current cap hit is pretty much market value for players of his calibre.

I'd be fine with keeping him, at the very least I think we could get a pick for him. No need to waste an amnesty on him.
That's what I'm thinking. If he's not in their plans they should be able to trade him.

ACC1224 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 09:38 AM
  #27
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 59,993
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinto View Post
Agreed, he is still a good defenseman and his current cap hit is pretty much market value for players of his calibre.

I'd be fine with keeping him, at the very least I think we could get a pick for him. No need to waste an amnesty on him.
So what is your defense for next year?

Phaneuf, Gardiner, Franson, Gunnarsson seem like returnees and Fraser had a strong season as a 3rd pairing defender that might be back.

So if not Liles removed, than there is no room for any upgrades on what Leafs currently have?

__________________
Signature: There is no greater demonstration of Fan patience then to suggest to "Play the Kids " and be willing to accept the consequences of those actions..
Mess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 09:45 AM
  #28
Pinto
Burn Them All
 
Pinto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Hagersville, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,305
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
So what is your defense for next year?

Phaneuf, Gardiner, Fraser, Gunnarsson seem like returnees and Fraser had a strong season as a 3rd pairing defender that might be back.

So if not Liles removed, than there is no room for any upgrades on what Leafs currently have?
I'm not saying I'm opposed to trading him, just that it would be a waste of an amnesty. Why waste one on a player who's not that overpaid (if at all) and can still contribute?

My first choice would actually to be trade him, IF we can acquire a shutdown defender. I'd like to see...

Phaneuf - xxx
Gardiner - Franson
Gunnarson - Fraser

Pinto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 09:46 AM
  #29
achtungbaby
Registered User
 
achtungbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,077
vCash: 500
It seems like some of us believe that the playoffs are likely next season and that this offseason will be easy. Talk to Flyers and Devils fans if you believe this team should be a given to make the playoffs.

Some things we should be concerned about are:

Kessels no trade clause kicks in. If he wants Semin money, no problem. If he wants Getzlaf money we have a big decision to make.

What do we pay Kadri after an unreal shooting percentage this season? Do we have faith that the Kadri we saw during his hit streak is the real deal or do we give him the Gagner treatment?

Which of the terrible Burke conctracts do we buy out?

How much is Phaneuf looking for in a contract extension? If he wants 7 million it might be time to think about shopping him.

How much do we give Bozak? Can we afford having Bozak and Grabo eating 10-11 million worth of cap space?

What do we give the other RFA's who have done well?

Aside from keeping guys around from last year, how are we improving the team beyond addition by subtraction or internal improvement? Who's the number 1 C or the top pairing defensemen next year?

I'm willing to go with Reimer but a reliable backup who can comfortably play some tough games is a must.

Tough offseason...

achtungbaby is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 09:54 AM
  #30
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 59,993
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinto View Post
I'm not saying I'm opposed to trading him, just that it would be a waste of an amnesty. Why waste one on a player who's not that overpaid (if at all) and can still contribute?

My first choice would actually to be trade him, IF we can acquire a shutdown defender. I'd like to see...

Phaneuf - xxx
Gardiner - Franson
Gunnarson - Fraser
Well one way or another, it looks like Liles is expendable and not a part of Leafs future plans so he is on Nonis ship out of town list this summer.

Hopefully he can be dealt away, as that is always preferable option #1, before a buyout comes into play.

Komisarek is an obvious amnesty buyout candidate, and so Liles is lower on the priority list as a option as a result of bigger fish to fry. Leafs might also want to leave a spot open for Rielly or any other youngster allowing him an opportunity for advancement internally if an outside defender is not brought in.

Mess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 09:57 AM
  #31
Pinto
Burn Them All
 
Pinto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Hagersville, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,305
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Well one way or another, it looks like Liles is expendable and not a part of Leafs future plans so he is on Nonis ship out of town list this summer.

Hopefully he can be dealt away, as that is always option 1, before a buyout comes into play.

Komisarek is an obvious amnesty buyout candidate, and so Liles is lower on the list as a option.
Yes. Personally Komisarek is a no-brainer amnesty for me as well.

I'd save the other one for the following year to see if Grabovski can bounce back or not.

Pinto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 10:01 AM
  #32
therealkoho
Gary says it's A-OK
 
therealkoho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: the Prior
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,853
vCash: 500
I think you'll see Komisarek bought out and they'll try to move Liles for sure, maybe with a pick to either improve their draft position in the 2nd round or just to possibly upgrade the forwards

I can't see them buying out Grabs, while his contract may be a little rich the guy does have an important role to play, while he had a down year this season, I can't see it repeating itself, Grabs is a player you want

I think they'll try to move MacArthur(rights maybe with Liles) and hope that Frattin can step up and blossom into the 3rd line RW role

Franson and Gunnarsson both need to be kept and will get raises and 3-4 year deals(Fraser is a wait and see for health reasons). Kadri may get a bridge kind of contract somewhat similar to Subban's as I think Bozak will as well

Colton Orr is a big question mark, I think if he'll sign for 7-750k on a 1 or 2 year deal they'll keep him and bookend him with McLaren(2 years) and Komarov(3 years) for the 4th line(although Leo is in for a raise to be sure)

lots of tough decisions for sure...........one of them won't involve Mike Gillis hopefully


Last edited by therealkoho: 05-16-2013 at 10:17 AM.
therealkoho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 10:05 AM
  #33
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 59,993
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinto View Post
Yes. Personally Komisarek is a no-brainer amnesty for me as well.

I'd save the other one for the following year to see if Grabovski can bounce back or not.
Agreed the Grabovski situation is just as cloudy at present for Nonis to deal with.

Based on his contract and production last season he would be near to impossible to trade, and an extreme remotely buyout candidate based on cost ($14.4 mil), so he is coming back. A bounce back year would solve a lot of problems as he is signed long term.

Which now makes the UFA Bozak situation more difficult as a result of Grabs locked in and Kadri needing to be re-signed..

Bozak being Leafs best face-off man and having chemistry with Kessel also complicates the situation as I'm sure for the right $$ Nonis would like to have him return also next year. However locking him up longer term and with the previous cast leaves no center ice room for that illusive #1 center Leafs have been chasing for years since Mats.

Mess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 10:06 AM
  #34
Loosie
Registered User
 
Loosie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,801
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
I think you'll see Komisarek bought out and they'll try to move Liles for sure, maybe with a pick to either improve their draft position in the 2nd round or just to possibly upgrade the forwards

I can't see them buying out Grabs, while his contract may be a little rich the guy does have an important role to play, while he had a down year this season, I can't see it repeating itself, Grabs is a player you want

I think they'll try to move MacArthur(maybe with Liles) and hope that Frattin can step up and blossom into the 3rd line RW role

Franson and Gunnarsson both need to be kept and will get raises and 3-4 year deals(Fraser is a wait and see for health reasons). Kadri may get a bridge kind of contract somewhat similar to Subban's as I think Bozak will as well

Colton Orr is a big question mark, I think if he'll sign for 7-750k on a 1 or 2 year deal they'll keep him and bookend him with McLaren(2 years) and Komarov(3 years) for the 4th line(although Leo is in for a raise to be sure)

lots of tough decisions for sure...........one of them won't involve Mike Gillis hopefully
MacArthur is a UFA, there is no moving needed. I do think he is not in a Leafs uniform next year.

Loosie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 10:11 AM
  #35
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 59,993
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
I think you'll see Komisarek bought out and they'll try to move Liles for sure, maybe with a pick to either improve their draft position in the 2nd round or just to possibly upgrade the forwards

I can't see them buying out Grabs, while his contract may be a little rich the guy does have an important role to play, while he had a down year this season, I can't see it repeating itself, Grabs is a player you want

I think they'll try to move MacArthur(maybe with Liles) and hope that Frattin can step up and blossom into the 3rd line RW role.
MacArthur has little to no trade value as a pending UFA player other than dealing his rights to another team if possible.

I believe a UFA David Clarkson (home town boy) would be a upgrade on MacArthur, and Frattin the fall back plan making him expendable and perhaps he just walks away as a UFA.

The time for dealing MacArthur for a real return would have been the trade deadline.

Mess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 10:12 AM
  #36
The Naz
With God given hands
 
The Naz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,381
vCash: 500
I would use the compliance buy out only if I had to. Try to take a hit and move the 3 players.

With Komisarek, use the option to pay some of his salary and move him for nothing. He has 3.5M owed, offer to pay out 1M retained. For a bottom cap team that's a 2.5M cost for a 4.5M cap hit on 1 year. Not bad. Try and get 5th. Accept a autographed, game worn jock.

JM Liles might hold value in a cap for cap deal. But I wouldn't take much back for him. He may be relegated to buy out. Tough sell, but a PMD does hold value. RC didn't help, scratching him.

Grabovski is a wild card. Tonnes of skill, tonnes of heart and effort, no productivity last year. But he did put up good numbers the 2 previous years. Given easier ice time, he should easily get back there. Take a bath on his value in a trade and he may be off the books. IMO, the only reason I move him is to sign Bozak. If one of Colborne, Kadri or Grabs were face off specialists, I'd keep Grabs.

If Bozak wants a red cent more then 5M, F off. If we can lock him in at 4-4.5M, I'd offer him up to 5 years. He'd be perfect as a 3C. Rotate Kadri and Bozak between 1C and 3C, and our center problem isn't a problem. Joe C gets a shot at 2C.

The Naz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 10:14 AM
  #37
pucci2001
Registered User
 
pucci2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,078
vCash: 500
I am inclined to agree, he will be VERY busy resigning people but I also feel his job is really easy and straight forward. We all know we need a top 6 center, top 4 D, experience in net. He just have to weigh options and make sure he actually does something about it. He can not be complacent which might lead to overpaying. However Burke left this team's cap in fantastic shape after what he inherited. According to cap geek we are 19.5mil under the cap this off season and that is before we buy out Komi. 24mil is more than enough for him to get the job done even if he has to overpay a little bit for someone like Clarkson/Weiss/Horton. I just hope if he overpays its in a contract like Connolly's short term so we at least arent stuck with it for years.

What do you guys think about offering Horton a deal matching or close to matching Lucic's? It is a bit of an overpayment IMO but I think it would still be worth it. Of course this is assuming Boston can't afford to resign him after this year.

pucci2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 10:16 AM
  #38
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
 
dredeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,689
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
It's easy to "sigh them at the market rate", but it's a little tougher to actually figure out what that is.

What's market rate for Carl Gunnarson and Cody Franson?



There are no #1 centers available through free agency, and we don't really have the assets to bring one in via trade. With Bozak and MacArthur on expiring deals, we just lost our two best expendable assets who actually had value. That's exactly why I wanted them moved during the season.

That's the only big decision for the off-season? What about the disaster area known as our blueline? Many posters think Phaneuf isn't a #1 defensemen, so if they are right, we need one of those. Even the people who think Phaneuf is a #1 point to the fact that he can't do it all alone, so we'll at least need to bring in some very good seconday defensemen.

Then there's the goaltending... Again...



He wasn't good enough to play a full-time role for one of the worst bluelines in the league, and he's locked into a relatively big contract. How much value does he have right now.

Another things that's easier said than done.
When your trying to get into the playoffs and make a run you don't trade away your expiring contracts. Especially when one of those players is your best face off man. Teams going into the playoffs acquire those contracts they don't trade them away. It's a reality that you expend assets to acquire pieces for the playoffs.

dredeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 10:17 AM
  #39
pucci2001
Registered User
 
pucci2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Naz View Post
I would use the compliance buy out only if I had to. Try to take a hit and move the 3 players.

With Komisarek, use the option to pay some of his salary and move him for nothing. He has 3.5M owed, offer to pay out 1M retained. For a bottom cap team that's a 2.5M cost for a 4.5M cap hit on 1 year. Not bad. Try and get 5th. Accept a autographed, game worn jock.

JM Liles might hold value in a cap for cap deal. But I wouldn't take much back for him. He may be relegated to buy out. Tough sell, but a PMD does hold value. RC didn't help, scratching him.

Grabovski is a wild card. Tonnes of skill, tonnes of heart and effort, no productivity last year. But he did put up good numbers the 2 previous years. Given easier ice time, he should easily get back there. Take a bath on his value in a trade and he may be off the books. IMO, the only reason I move him is to sign Bozak. If one of Colborne, Kadri or Grabs were face off specialists, I'd keep Grabs.

If Bozak wants a red cent more then 5M, F off. If we can lock him in at 4-4.5M, I'd offer him up to 5 years. He'd be perfect as a 3C. Rotate Kadri and Bozak between 1C and 3C, and our center problem isn't a problem. Joe C gets a shot at 2C.
Paying a third line PK guy 4.5mil a year is a massive overpayment. Bergeron barely makes more than that and he is an allstar and is annually a Selke trophy nominee. Not to mention he is the best faceoff guy in the league.

pucci2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 10:18 AM
  #40
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
 
dredeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,689
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pucci2001 View Post
I am inclined to agree, he will be VERY busy resigning people but I also feel his job is really easy and straight forward. We all know we need a top 6 center, top 4 D, experience in net. He just have to weigh options and make sure he actually does something about it. He can not be complacent which might lead to overpaying. However Burke left this team's cap in fantastic shape after what he inherited. According to cap geek we are 19.5mil under the cap this off season and that is before we buy out Komi. 24mil is more than enough for him to get the job done even if he has to overpay a little bit for someone like Clarkson/Weiss/Horton. I just hope if he overpays its in a contract like Connolly's short term so we at least arent stuck with it for years.

What do you guys think about offering Horton a deal matching or close to matching Lucic's? It is a bit of an overpayment IMO but I think it would still be worth it. Of course this is assuming Boston can't afford to resign him after this year.
My B's likely won't be able to afford him unless he stays close to or under his current cap hit. I will tell you he's a very very frustrating person to have on your team. He does put up points but he's invisible a lot of the time and paying upwards of 6 million will have you pulling your hair out most of the time.

dredeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 10:20 AM
  #41
BLeafer2011
Registered User
 
BLeafer2011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 282
vCash: 500
love ya Fraser

BLeafer2011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 10:26 AM
  #42
pucci2001
Registered User
 
pucci2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
My B's likely won't be able to afford him unless he stays close to or under his current cap hit. I will tell you he's a very very frustrating person to have on your team. He does put up points but he's invisible a lot of the time and paying upwards of 6 million will have you pulling your hair out most of the time.
I agree but I just think if we were able to land him and play him on our second line with JVR and reunite Lupul and Kessel our top 6, despite having no true #1 center would be pretty scary. That is a big line that is hard to play against and it seems Horton can be a clutch player. And a three year deal doesn't scare me that much after two years if he doesn't pan out we could unload him to a cap floor team or something. Better than Grabo's 5 year deal lol.

I also do think Boston has too many other priorities and not enough space to resign him this off season and its a huge perk to me to have him play against Boston next year as well lol. Often players love to play against their old teams.

pucci2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 10:33 AM
  #43
leafs1habs0
Burn the Boats
 
leafs1habs0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,038
vCash: 500
If someone tries to screw us and offer sheets Kadri, then he's got work to do.. otherwise everything that has already been said should sort itself out in time.

leafs1habs0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 10:34 AM
  #44
The CyNick
Follow @ TheCyNick
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,487
vCash: 500
I think the #1 centre likely has to come from within. I mentioned this in another thread, but I would target Matt Cullen if he will come at a decent rate. he has nice faceoff numbers and would be able to help some of the young guys with faceoffs. he's not going to be a #1, but he can help the group.

I would be hesitant about dropping Liles. you need at least 8 D to get through the regular season. I would wait on moving him until you see if Morgan can crack the big club. if he can, then you move Liles.

The CyNick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 10:43 AM
  #45
Ari91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,451
vCash: 500
I have faith in a lot of the players we already have on the team. I think it's a few adjustments that are needed though those adjustments are arguably no easy task and will likely not be addressed all in one summer.

I'd like to see Nonis target a guy to be paired with Phaneuf.

I also think that Grabo and Liles still have value around the league if one or both of these guys are no longer considered part of the plans, I think Nonis will exhaust every plausible trade option before he lets both walk for free.

The players who I think will be regulars in the line up that I want to see resigned are Franson, Gunnarsson, Kulemin, Kadri and Komarov.

Bozak is a toss up. He still doesn't address the #1 centre need but he's a serviceable player. My desire to see him return depends solely on how much he's asking for.

Ari91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 10:43 AM
  #46
cynicism
Registered User
 
cynicism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,540
vCash: 500
Komi being bought out is a no brainer. After July, the only real bad contract is Liles (Connolly's expires).

Keep Grabs. His numbers suffered because Carlyle used him in a checking role this season. If Bozak isn't resigned, highly likely because he and his agent think he's a #1 centre, then the Leafs will need Grabo. I've never understood why Grabo and Kessel haven't spent more time together.

The defence needs to be upgraded. Phaneuf needs a good partner he can share some of the heavy lifting. Gunnar's good and should stay, but he's not Dion's ideal partner.

A #1 center is also needed.

The problem is there's no real UFA solution and trading for any of these assets won't be easy or cheap.

The most pressing concern is coaching, figure out why the Leafs kept having trouble clearing the puck out of their own zone and fix it. It cost them this series and who knows how many more wins they would've had.

cynicism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 10:44 AM
  #47
leafs1habs0
Burn the Boats
 
leafs1habs0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,038
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I think the #1 centre likely has to come from within. I mentioned this in another thread, but I would target Matt Cullen if he will come at a decent rate. he has nice faceoff numbers and would be able to help some of the young guys with faceoffs. he's not going to be a #1, but he can help the group.

I would be hesitant about dropping Liles. you need at least 8 D to get through the regular season. I would wait on moving him until you see if Morgan can crack the big club. if he can, then you move Liles.
Not great, but some decent UFA options at C:

Weiss
Ribeiro
Andy Mac
Roy
Cullen

.. Liles should be kept. PMD are hard to find.

leafs1habs0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 10:53 AM
  #48
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,906
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
When your trying to get into the playoffs and make a run you don't trade away your expiring contracts. Especially when one of those players is your best face off man. Teams going into the playoffs acquire those contracts they don't trade them away. It's a reality that you expend assets to acquire pieces for the playoffs.
I didn't want them to be dealt for picks, but as part of packages. If we could use them to beef up deals to get better top-end players, that's the best possible outcome.

Dreakmur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 11:00 AM
  #49
NigelTufnel
Registered User
 
NigelTufnel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
What about Komisarek ?

Only so many buyouts to go around to clean up past mistakes so you have to pick wisely.

Big Mike seems like he is also on Nonis to-do list of players to remove this summer.
I just figured that since Komi only has this season and then is gone anyways, it would be more of a waste to buy him out.

I like Liles, but I think he's already been replaced by a superior, younger, and cheaper player in Gardiner so why have his cap for the next 3 years?

NigelTufnel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-16-2013, 11:00 AM
  #50
The CyNick
Follow @ TheCyNick
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,487
vCash: 500
to me, none of the other guys available in July are much better than what we have. to me the need is either a true number one centre...not available. or adding another guy who can help us on faceoffs. to me, Bozak is as good as any of those guys available. Cullen would be a depth forward, can move up the lineup a bit, and adds faceoff depth.

I would like to see Grabo, Kadri, Bozak, McClement, Colborne, and Cullen competing for the four centre spots. leftover guys become wingers.

The CyNick is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:49 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.