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*OFFICIAL* Windsor Spitfires 2013 Off-Season Thread

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05-16-2013, 09:56 AM
  #726
Knights77
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Originally Posted by Raisy View Post
Hey Maxine, I think you are missing the point; do I think Windsor got screwed? yes in 2011, not this year, they did not deserve it.
My point goes back to the criteria used to determine a host. Somebody posted a comment by Branch saying that if Windsor or Barrie would be returning a comparable roster to London, they would have got the hosting gig. In 2011, Windsor was returning a significant part of the cup winning team, but lost out due to guaranteed money. This time they guaranteed the most money, but lose out on strength of roster.
I have no problem with London hosting if they were clearly the best based on the hosting criteria, but when the criteria seem to be moving targets to suit the league, then what's the point in bidding.
I don't feel bad for Windsor, whether or not they had the best bid is irrelevent to me, the other negatives swirling around the team did them in. I feel bad for teams like Barrie and Kingston and Soo and Guelph, because unless the committee or criteria get revamped, they will never get a hosting gig.
Ok and your points make sense. I agree, Windsor should have had it in 2011. But why should that shape your opinions of future hosts just cuz Windsor got hosed in 2011? This doesn't make any future bid by an OHL team unworthy or wrong.

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05-16-2013, 10:27 AM
  #727
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Ok and your points make sense. I agree, Windsor should have had it in 2011. But why should that shape your opinions of future hosts just cuz Windsor got hosed in 2011? This doesn't make any future bid by an OHL team unworthy or wrong.
There are 4 teams in the OHL with arena capacities =>6,000 and 3 of them have hosted the last 4 cups. Guelph pulled out of bidding this year and Barrie lost out, again. Realistically, this was a great opportunity for the league to give it to a smaller team (Barrie), given that London hosted so recently and Windsor stunk. Putting a bid together takes a significant amount of time and money from the team, as well as external partners such as sponsors, community,etc... If I am the owner of a smaller team, why would I put forth the effort, when the writing seems to be on the wall.

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05-16-2013, 10:39 AM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Raisy View Post
There are 4 teams in the OHL with arena capacities =>6,000 and 3 of them have hosted the last 4 cups. Guelph pulled out of bidding this year and Barrie lost out, again. Realistically, this was a great opportunity for the league to give it to a smaller team (Barrie), given that London hosted so recently and Windsor stunk. Putting a bid together takes a significant amount of time and money from the team, as well as external partners such as sponsors, community,etc... If I am the owner of a smaller team, why would I put forth the effort, when the writing seems to be on the wall.
And while this seems to make sense, I see it as a cop-out. Barrie didn't get it this year not because of arena etc. They had city $ backing. It was their returning roster vs London's. Not even close. Guelph with their roster and everything they bring, I betcha it would have been almost a tie with London....a tie that London would have lost, due to the fact the hosted in 05. But this year because it was never close (it really wasn't), they 'had' to choose London. If I was a Guelph fan I would be furious that the powers that be didn't even try to get in on it. Can you imagine the world we would live in if all the 'smaller' entities said, "oh im not going to try because they look bigger and stronger". Weak excuses.

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05-16-2013, 11:03 AM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Knights77 View Post
And while this seems to make sense, I see it as a cop-out. Barrie didn't get it this year not because of arena etc. They had city $ backing. It was their returning roster vs London's. Not even close. Guelph with their roster and everything they bring, I betcha it would have been almost a tie with London....a tie that London would have lost, due to the fact the hosted in 05. But this year because it was never close (it really wasn't), they 'had' to choose London. If I was a Guelph fan I would be furious that the powers that be didn't even try to get in on it. Can you imagine the world we would live in if all the 'smaller' entities said, "oh im not going to try because they look bigger and stronger". Weak excuses.
Again, I ask how do you know it wasn't close? Is it based solely on the returning roster? If it is, do you not think that Barrie, while returning a significant number of players, would be saying that all draft picks for the next 3 or 4 years are up for grabs to go all out at home? And if every year the projected roster is the criteria that trumps all others, than say it.

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05-16-2013, 11:11 AM
  #730
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I don't think there is ONE single criteria that trumps all others. It's a combination of factors and at the end of the day one of those factors will be the tipping point. And it won't always be the same.

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05-16-2013, 11:16 AM
  #731
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Originally Posted by aresknights View Post
I don't think there is ONE single criteria that trumps all others. It's a combination of factors and at the end of the day one of those factors will be the tipping point. And it won't always be the same.


You can say that again. The committee can shoe horn who they need when they need them to host.

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05-16-2013, 11:30 AM
  #732
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Ok, if that's how ya take it.
I take another way.

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05-16-2013, 11:36 AM
  #733
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Originally Posted by aresknights View Post
Ok, if that's how ya take it.
I take another way.
It can be taken both ways and if London fans thought they were hosed the past couple of times, more of them would take it the way most other fans are.

But this goes back to what myself and other have been saying about transparancy and the lack of it in the OHL. When bubble teams get shafted on making the NCAA tourny, they have the president of the selection committee on TV 5 minutes later explaining their decisions. Why can't Branch or the head of the selection committee do the same here?

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05-16-2013, 11:43 AM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Knights77 View Post
And while this seems to make sense, I see it as a cop-out. Barrie didn't get it this year not because of arena etc. They had city $ backing. It was their returning roster vs London's. Not even close. Guelph with their roster and everything they bring, I betcha it would have been almost a tie with London....a tie that London would have lost, due to the fact the hosted in 05. But this year because it was never close (it really wasn't), they 'had' to choose London. If I was a Guelph fan I would be furious that the powers that be didn't even try to get in on it. Can you imagine the world we would live in if all the 'smaller' entities said, "oh im not going to try because they look bigger and stronger". Weak excuses.
I don't think it's a cop out. If Branch cared about the health of the OHL he would be talking to the owners and governors of respective teams for why they didn't put in a bid. You can say it's a cop out but looking at the teams that have won bids lately it's big arenas and big markets. Shouldn't we see who bids for 2017 if it's Ottawa, London, Kitchener and Windsor what would you say? The league really needs to look at the whole bidding process and the reprehensible damage it's doing to the league, optics are very poor. In 2011 it was about guaranteed money with Mississauga, in 2014 it's the strength of the London roster. Branch and his cronies can base their decision on any pie in the sky criteria.

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05-16-2013, 11:58 AM
  #735
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Originally Posted by aresknights View Post
I don't think there is ONE single criteria that trumps all others. It's a combination of factors and at the end of the day one of those factors will be the tipping point. And it won't always be the same.
And some of those factors are minimal requirements, while some are scaled.

For example, a minimal criteria is that the team must be expected to a very strong team for the next year. Once that hurdle is cleared, there is little advantage to being that much better a team (but some).

Guaranteed money is scaled. Every buck more is a nudge in your favor.


the truth is I do not see Windsor clearing the basic hurdle of being a strongly competitive team next year.

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05-16-2013, 12:02 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by ottawah View Post
And some of those factors are minimal requirements, while some are scaled.

For example, a minimal criteria is that the team must be expected to a very strong team for the next year. Once that hurdle is cleared, there is little advantage to being that much better a team (but some).

Guaranteed money is scaled. Every buck more is a nudge in your favor.


the truth is I do not see Windsor clearing the basic hurdle of being a strongly competitive team next year.
Right but in 2011 when they did have a strong roster they never got it. If Windsor wasn't going to get it in 2011 I feel very comfortable saying they will never and I mean never get to host the Memorial Cup as long as David Branch runs the league.

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05-16-2013, 12:14 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
Right but in 2011 when they did have a strong roster they never got it. If Windsor wasn't going to get it in 2011 I feel very comfortable saying they will never and I mean never get to host the Memorial Cup as long as David Branch runs the league.
Could someone with a little more computer know how than myself put a petition together to get rid of Branch & send it to 19 league governors. No use sending it to London as they won`t go against thier little buddy.

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05-16-2013, 12:36 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Raisy View Post
It can be taken both ways and if London fans thought they were hosed the past couple of times, more of them would take it the way most other fans are.

But this goes back to what myself and other have been saying about transparancy and the lack of it in the OHL. When bubble teams get shafted on making the NCAA tourny, they have the president of the selection committee on TV 5 minutes later explaining their decisions. Why can't Branch or the head of the selection committee do the same here?
Ive stated before I'd like more transparency. All for it, just dont see it happening. Not sure it would help ease a lot of fans minds as they'd just disagree with the reasoning the league puts forth. It's a judged bid. Not all will agree.
At the very least I hope the league discusses with the organizations why they won/ lost and how they "scaled" all the criteria.
I'm sure the Governors, GMs, team peresidents get more Info than we do and work from there.

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05-16-2013, 12:56 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
Right but in 2011 when they did have a strong roster they never got it. If Windsor wasn't going to get it in 2011 I feel very comfortable saying they will never and I mean never get to host the Memorial Cup as long as David Branch runs the league.
They had a strong enough roster to clear the hurdle, yes, but came out lower in the other areas.

Where did Mississauga end up the year? First overall by a huge margin. Windsor managed 4th in the west. And they offered less money.

You can cry over spilled milk, but in hindsight it was the best decision to make.

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05-16-2013, 01:19 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by ottawah View Post
They had a strong enough roster to clear the hurdle, yes, but came out lower in the other areas.

Where did Mississauga end up the year? First overall by a huge margin. Windsor managed 4th in the west. And they offered less money.

You can cry over spilled milk, but in hindsight it was the best decision to make.
Mississauga ended up first with their leading scorer (Shugg) and one of their top dmen (Cantin) coming from Windsor. Had Windsor been awarded the cup, they would've likely kept those 2 and added. So in this case hindsight is probably a little skewed.

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05-16-2013, 01:19 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by ottawah View Post
They had a strong enough roster to clear the hurdle, yes, but came out lower in the other areas.

Where did Mississauga end up the year? First overall by a huge margin. Windsor managed 4th in the west. And they offered less money.

You can cry over spilled milk, but in hindsight it was the best decision to make.

@ottawah....first know what your talking about before you post about the spits.

The Spits would have kept Shug and Cantin if they knew they were getting the Cup and not trade them to Missy that season.That trade helped Missy alot to stay #1 most of the year.And they would have also got more pieces if we were hosting , we also had kassian and Ellis still aboard along with jack Campbell in goal.

What most are saying on here is Branch talks out the both sides of his mouth from on hosting yr to another.Barrie would have put together what they needed for next yr knowing they were hosting they have a good core to build around.the tourney should make the rounds as long as the team is competive it doesnt have to be the BEST team.let some other communities enjoy it too.Not just the butt lickers.

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05-16-2013, 01:43 PM
  #742
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Hey Mr. Bilke as far as your concerned he is the number one forward.
Who's Mr Bilke?

Quote:
But this year because it was never close (it really wasn't), they 'had' to choose London.
They didn't "have" to choose London. Nobody put a hockey stick to their eye and said "London, or I'm going Dr Hook on you!"

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05-16-2013, 01:45 PM
  #743
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Why is the windsor thread full of London *******s talking about their memorial cup. I think they can all pretty much f-off and die. Go comb Branch's pubic lice infested moustache for another free path to the cup which you won't win.
You're a wonderful person.


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Who's Mr Bilke?



They didn't "have" to choose London. Nobody put a hockey stick to their eye and said "London, or I'm going Dr Hook on you!"
No see, you took it out of context. It meant that there really wasn't a beter choice. Not that they 'had' to otherwise there would be consequences.

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05-16-2013, 01:55 PM
  #744
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No see, you took it out of context. It meant that there really wasn't a beter choice. Not that they 'had' to otherwise there would be consequences.
Just because they chose London doesn't mean there wasn't a better choice.

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05-16-2013, 02:04 PM
  #745
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Just because they chose London doesn't mean there wasn't a better choice.
And this is where the gridlock begins. There wasn't a better choice based on the elements that they weigh the bids on. However, those that argue everybody should get a chance (cue the kumbaya), then ya sure, there were tons of great choices...like Ottawa, Windsor, Erie, Barrie, Guelph.....
Guaranteed money, venue, strength of roster. There was no better choice.
Anyways, this really isn't getting anywhere and we are obviously taking up time and space to allow real hockey fans articulate their passion for hockey like jughead, so ill leave it at that.

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05-16-2013, 02:18 PM
  #746
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@ottawah....first know what your talking about before you post about the spits.

The Spits would have kept Shug and Cantin if they knew they were getting the Cup and not trade them to Missy that season.That trade helped Missy alot to stay #1 most of the year.And they would have also got more pieces if we were hosting , we also had kassian and Ellis still aboard along with jack Campbell in goal.

What most are saying on here is Branch talks out the both sides of his mouth from on hosting yr to another.Barrie would have put together what they needed for next yr knowing they were hosting they have a good core to build around.the tourney should make the rounds as long as the team is competive it doesnt have to be the BEST team.let some other communities enjoy it too.Not just the butt lickers.
This is a terrific post. Look at what Windsor had coming into that year and the production players had just including the group without any trades made.

Ellis 24g 77a
Kassian 26g 51a
Khokhlachev 34g 42a
Kuhnhackl 39g 29a
Ryan 21g 37a
Johnston 21g 29a (oa)
MacQueen 15g 29a
Shugg(with Missy) 41g 45a
Cantin 10g 31a

That's 9 skaters right there throw in Locke before he got traded 19g 14a. I bet you would have seen Rychel go for another OA on D instead he went with Brown and Carrick due to the fact they didn't have a guy like Shugg. On D you would have had Ellis, Cantin, Duininck, you still would have seen Robertson acquired since they tried to make a run as it is, Posa so there you have 5 and throw in one more. You may still have seen Carnevale acquired, Rychel would have been acquired still. You would have had Rychel and Vail fill out the 4th line. You would never have seen MacIntyre, McCann, Tarini, Clouthier, Czinder. That team would have been a powerhouse.

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05-16-2013, 02:22 PM
  #747
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This is how I see the Spits lineup for upcoming season as of now

Forwards
HoSang-Rychel-Verbeek
Gifto-Vail-Moore
Marchese?-Johnson?-Studnicka?
Graham-Bilcke-Hughes
Lukchuk-Leslie-Marlatt

Defense
Murphy-Seiloff
Koekkoek-Bateman
Ebert-Sanvido

Brown-Percy-O/A for now
Bowen-Mcnaughton
Murray-Burns
Morrisson-Markovic
Killins

Goalies
Dekort
Kuchmey
Johnston
Billings

Obviously having 10 players on D with Ohl experience Bowen and Mcnaughton
wont be back,while Percy may be kept around for a bit until Ebert,Seiloff and Koekkoek
return from Nhl camps
I can see 1 of Bateman or Brown being dealt for a forward ie Stephen Harper from Erie
2 forwards from Europe would be expected to make this club,as well as possible O/as
such as Carter Sandlak and Austen Brassard
As well USA born forward Evan Allen might be the best bet to sign as I dont expect
Barber,Butcher and Schmaltz to sign any day soon
Young D-men Murray,Burns,Markovic,and possibly Morrisson will push for jobs
As for goaltending unless the Spits are going for it I see Dekort and Kuchmey as starting
day goalies,with 16 year old goalie Brendan Johnston in the wings,if they go for it
Dekort could be moved for an older established goalie,just speculating
My new lineup would look this

Hosang-Rychel-Brassard
Vail-Harper-Marchese
Giftopoulous-Allen-Sandlak
Verbeek-Moore-Euro

spares
Euro-Bilcke

Jr B
Graham
Hughes
Leslie
Luckchuk
Marlatt

Def
Brown-KoekKoek
Murphy-Seiloff
Ebert-Sanvido

spares
Murray
Burns

JrB
Morrisson
Killins
Markovic

Goalies
DeKort
Kuchmey

JR B
Johnston

Things should be interesting going forward

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Old
05-16-2013, 02:49 PM
  #748
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Legend can you see Windsor trying to make a run if the 2 imports pan out and they get a guy like Allen? Obviously you have to let things play out but I could see that happening and plugging in 2 OAs and finding a goalie.

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05-16-2013, 03:15 PM
  #749
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I wouldn't be against a run, given how much we have coming back. Last year was a mess and, if it could go wrong, it did. It would be interesting to see how a year of no injuries and no major suspensions played out for the boys.

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05-16-2013, 03:27 PM
  #750
Raisy
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In the prospects forum, the poster orangeandblack (who generally seems to be knowledgeable with american prospects) posted that Butcher and Allen, among others, are rumored to be on their way to the CHL. Hope it's true.

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