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What Bobrovsky Winning the Vezina Would Mean For The Flyers

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05-14-2013, 11:09 PM
  #151
Bryz4shiz
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
No need to come at me like that with your witty insult. And you are right, Bob looked like he had the potential to be a starting goalie. I agree. But again, potential is different than being a starting goalie. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Your last point about Bryz being a nut-job is not really good fodder for this discussion. At that point in his career, Bryz was among the top goalies in the league and was a year removed from finishing second in the Vezina voting and had put up consistently good numbers throughout his career. Yes, now, with hindsight, it is crystal clear that Bryz was not the goalie the Flyers wanted him to be. The contract is terrible and I don't think (even then) I said the contract was good. But again, at the time, they went with the bird in hand rather than the two in the bush.
Bryz was also coming off an atrocious playoff series and another mediocre one before that. Bryz never should have even been in the Vezina voting that year, he was playing on a defensively solid Phoenix team and Jason LaBarbera had better numbers than him that year. Vokoun on the other hand was coming off of better seasons where he played for a terrible team.

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05-14-2013, 11:28 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Bryz4shiz View Post
Bryz was also coming off an atrocious playoff series and another mediocre one before that. Bryz never should have even been in the Vezina voting that year, he was playing on a defensively solid Phoenix team and Jason LaBarbera had better numbers than him that year. Vokoun on the other hand was coming off of better seasons where he played for a terrible team.
Thanks for pointing that out about Bryz's playoff numbers, that helps. Those four games he played that year in the playoffs were a good measure, not the prior 24 that he had played in and put up respectable numbers. And not those hundreds of NHL regular season games he played in either. If that was Bryz's only playoff experience...you know, like Bob, then I would get that argument. But the dude established himself enough to the point where he could have a bad playoffs (and that year was bad) and it wasn't the end of the world. He wasn't some unproven guy, you know, like Bob, who didn't have the resume to allow for a bad playoffs to be written off. And yet it appears that you are writing off Bob's atrocious playoff performance based on potential, while holding Bryz accountable for his equally ugly playoff performance without factoring in the fact that his resume seemed to indicate that the poor play was a fluke. With hindsight, it clearly was not a fluke. But that is with hindsight.

You are right, he shouldn't have been there in the Vezina voting (or the Hart trophy voting where he took fifth). Thanks for pointing that out. Those voters suck anyway. Bob shouldn't be there this year.

LaBarbera played in like 15 games that year, I don't think you can say he had better numbers, even if his save percentage and GAA was slightly lower. Comparable, maybe. Better, no.

Vokoun put up similar numbers to Bryz as well in the most recent seasons. I wouldn't really call them better, his save percentage was a few tenths of a points better and his GAA was worse. I wouldn't really have had a problem had they signed Vokoun. There were two goalies available it seemed, Vokoun and Bryz. Vokoun was four years older. This goes to what I have been saying this entire time. They didn't want to roll the dice with Bob (and by extension Vokoun). At that point, he was still potential. It could have worked out great, or we could be looking for a new goalie right now anyway. They went with what seemed like the safe bet (albeit on a bad contract). And then there is also the whole argument that went on back when this was actually happening about whether or not Vokoun would have even signed here.

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05-15-2013, 12:04 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Thanks for pointing that out about Bryz's playoff numbers, that helps. Those four games he played that year in the playoffs were a good measure, not the prior 24 that he had played in and put up respectable numbers. And not those hundreds of NHL regular season games he played in either. If that was Bryz's only playoff experience...you know, like Bob, then I would get that argument. But the dude established himself enough to the point where he could have a bad playoffs (and that year was bad) and it wasn't the end of the world. He wasn't some unproven guy, you know, like Bob, who didn't have the resume to allow for a bad playoffs to be written off. And yet it appears that you are writing off Bob's atrocious playoff performance based on potential, while holding Bryz accountable for his equally ugly playoff performance without factoring in the fact that his resume seemed to indicate that the poor play was a fluke. With hindsight, it clearly was not a fluke. But that is with hindsight.

You are right, he shouldn't have been there in the Vezina voting (or the Hart trophy voting where he took fifth). Thanks for pointing that out. Those voters suck anyway. Bob shouldn't be there this year.

LaBarbera played in like 15 games that year, I don't think you can say he had better numbers, even if his save percentage and GAA was slightly lower. Comparable, maybe. Better, no.

Vokoun put up similar numbers to Bryz as well in the most recent seasons. I wouldn't really call them better, his save percentage was a few tenths of a points better and his GAA was worse. I wouldn't really have had a problem had they signed Vokoun. There were two goalies available it seemed, Vokoun and Bryz. Vokoun was four years older. This goes to what I have been saying this entire time. They didn't want to roll the dice with Bob (and by extension Vokoun). At that point, he was still potential. It could have worked out great, or we could be looking for a new goalie right now anyway. They went with what seemed like the safe bet (albeit on a bad contract). And then there is also the whole argument that went on back when this was actually happening about whether or not Vokoun would have even signed here.
There's just so much stupidity here. Bob was never given a chance to start in the playoffs that year. He had one bad outing and the rug was pulled out from under him. Bryz on the other hand had just had two bad post-seasons in a row. When you're signing a goalie for almost a decade that should absolutely be a red flag. He was embarrassed by Detroit and showed he didn't have the mental make up to be a true #1 goalie.

There is absolutely a huge difference between Bob's Vezina candidacy and Bryz's. Bob's save percentage was 30 points higher than Mason and his gaa was a goal lower. By every metric there is Bob was substantially better than Mason, the same can certainly not been said for Bryz.

Likewise Vokoun was substantially better than his backups for the past three years. Its foolish to say they didn't have to roll their dice with Bob because no one was asking them too. Vokoun had been a more consistent goaltender for years.

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05-15-2013, 07:11 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Bryz4shiz View Post
There's just so much stupidity here. Bob was never given a chance to start in the playoffs that year. He had one bad outing and the rug was pulled out from under him. Bryz on the other hand had just had two bad post-seasons in a row. When you're signing a goalie for almost a decade that should absolutely be a red flag. He was embarrassed by Detroit and showed he didn't have the mental make up to be a true #1 goalie.
First of all, all this playoff talk is largely irrelevant to the discussion I was having that you decided to join in on. The playoffs issue (for both goalies) was pretty much swept under the rug because it was not all that important. But if you are going to tell me that Bob's six playoffs games of atrocious play in net mean nothing, but Bryz's performance in a small fraction of his overall playoff performance in his career is the real issue here, then I really have no response to that. I am being stupid.

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There is absolutely a huge difference between Bob's Vezina candidacy and Bryz's. Bob's save percentage was 30 points higher than Mason and his gaa was a goal lower. By every metric there is Bob was substantially better than Mason, the same can certainly not been said for Bryz.
Nope. If you get to tell me that Bryz didn't deserve his nomination then I get to tell you Bob doesn't deserve his. This argument could be had about pretty much the every nomination for every award every year. Bryz got nominated and finished second in the voting (and I'm pretty sure he finished near the top for the Hart too that year). If you are having a real argument on this subject you can't just ignore it and say he didn't deserve it. Bryz was a recent Vezina nominee runner up when he was signed. Those are the facts and I'm sure that fact played in to the decision to sign him.

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Likewise Vokoun was substantially better than his backups for the past three years. Its foolish to say they didn't have to roll their dice with Bob because no one was asking them too. Vokoun had been a more consistent goaltender for years.
Huh? I don't really understand what Vokoun being better than his backups has to do with anything. I said in my last post that I wouldn't have had a problem with them going for Vokoun. There are issues with that though. To begin with, he may not have wanted to sign here and there was at least one article that was going around back then that alluded to that. Now if they do they sign him, how long is the contract? Two years? Four? After two years if Bob hasn't developed into the goalie that we wanted, where do we go? Re-sign Vokoun? Get a UFA available at the time? Just go with Bob? Same thing with the four year contract. What happens at the end? And this brings me back to my original point that I made days ago: There was no guarantee that Bob would be anything more than every other run-of-the-mill starter that the Flyers have had over the years. The Flyers wanted a long-term solution. Bryz was the safer bet at the time.

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05-15-2013, 08:08 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Great. I never said he wasn't good, or was slow, or had poor form. He obviously showed that he could play. That he could be the starter. I 100% agree with that. But that does not equate to having amazing potential or being a better option than a former Vezina nominee who consistently put better numbers than Bob put up in his one year of NHL play.

You also have been talking about the fact that Bob came out of nowhere as if that somehow makes his potential or skill that much better. You don't think that also may have cut against him? There are guys like Steve Mason, Jim Carey, Andrew Raycroft, etc. who either came out of nowhere and had a good year and fizzled out or may have been drafted high and had a good year and fizzled. There are no guarantees. Raycroft and Mason won Calders and have been largely disappointing since then. Jim Carey won a Vezina in the mid 90s and sucked before and after that. Bob looked good, not amazing as you would have it. The team had 60 games or so games of tape to look at and evaluate. They could have rolled the dice on those 60 games and things could have worked out great. Or it could have been terrible and they Flyers may be looking for a new goalie this year again anyway. They had a shot to get a top goalie in the league who put up consistently good stats throughout his career and was recently the runner-up for the Vezina trophy. They rolled the dice on a former Vezina nominee rather than an inexperienced guy who came out of nowhere.
You keep citing certain things as counter-points that sound good, but are really myopic. Once you look at them with greater focus the argument in defense of the trade starts to get pretty thin.

Bryz's Vezina nomination and career numbers are nice, and surely you don't get those things without being a decent goalie. However there were a decent slate of people who were saying for half a season leading up to Bryz's trade here that he was greatly helped by Tippet's system. When you look at his game, not his results statistically but his actual game, it's not that hard to get there if you know what you're looking at. His results here and Smith's results in Phoenix since Bryz's departure strengthen that argument. What has happened with Bryz is not a surprise to those who are goalie-savvy.

Similarly, you concede that Bob showed the ability to play and start. But you disagree with the characterization of his talent as amazing. There is some dissonance there, as succeeding to the extent that even you are willing to concede he did, is in fact amazing. Further, it is indicative of a person capable of amazing things. To make it to the NHL with out ever having had a goalie coach, a couple of other things have to be in place. Among them a ridiculous amount of natural talent, a tremendous work ethic, and I think most importantly extreme mental fortitude. To actually stick as a starter for a season once you're there is unreal.

Goalie is a position that eats people up psychologically. Look at Bryz, he's a grown ass man that can clearly be thrown off by the nature of the position at times. Bob was a young guy that didn't speak English living in America. Never mind the actual difficulty of communicating with teammates, that's mentally draining...before you even get to the pressure of playing goal for an NHL team. The NHL is filled with shooters who see big athletic goalies all the time, and have learned to exploit bad technique and tiny openings. To succeed with no coaching, no technical foundation on athleticism alone indicates a ridiculous level of not only talent but physical preparedness and acquired coordination. The guy is a freak athlete. That combined with his aforementioned personality traits made him as likely to be a star as any young goalie in the league that year. In my opinion, worst case scenario he turned into MAF (i.e. freaky talented, a little inconsistent, technically goofy at times).

In the end the Bryz trade is defensible. There are reasons why it didn't look as bad as it was at the time. But there were a lot of us who were saying, even before it happened, that it was a bad idea. And some of those people were just the usual sticks in the mud who don't like anything, but there were also a lot of us who foresaw what has come to pass and said as much at the time. So the current criticism of that trade cannot honestly be merely discounted to hindsight, or dismissed with the idea that the organization just didn't catch a break with how things worked out.


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05-15-2013, 08:13 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Nope. If you get to tell me that Bryz didn't deserve his nomination then I get to tell you Bob doesn't deserve his. This argument could be had about pretty much the every nomination for every award every year. Bryz got nominated and finished second in the voting (and I'm pretty sure he finished near the top for the Hart too that year). If you are having a real argument on this subject you can't just ignore it and say he didn't deserve it. Bryz was a recent Vezina nominee runner up when he was signed. Those are the facts and I'm sure that fact played in to the decision to sign him.
That's 100% true. Difference is, one of you actually has a real argument to make, whilst the other is likely taking a position strictly for polemic reasons.

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05-15-2013, 08:27 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
You keep citing certain things as counter-points that sound good, but are really myopic. Once you look at them with greater focus the argument in defense of the trade starts to get pretty thin.

Bryz's Vezina nomination and career numbers are nice, and surely you don't get those things without being a decent goalie. However there were a decent slate of people who were saying for half a season leading up to Bryz's trade here that he was greatly helped by Tippet's system. When you look at his game, not his results statistically but his actual game, it's not that hard to get there if you now what you're looking at. His results here and Smith's results in Phoenix since Bryz's departure strengthen that argument. What has happened with Bryz is not a surprise to those who are goalie-savvy.
He surely benefited from having a better defense and better defensive system in place, but how are you really going to quantify that? He put up those numbers. You can't just write off every goalie that plays on a team with a good defense or a defensive system. He had the skills. No one on here thought we were getting the Bryz we got. Some may have thought it wasn't the right move. Others that his stats were inflated. But I don't think anyone was thinking that Bryz would not be as good as Bob. Most people, IIRC, were in agreement that Bryz was an upgrade. Most people were in agreement that if Bob (IF) reached his potential he would be at the level was Bryz was at when the Flyers signed him. In other words, Bryz was the safer bet.

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Similarly, you concede that Bob showed the ability to play and start. But you disagree with the characterization of his talent as amazing. There is some dissonance there, as succeeding to the extent that even you are willing to concede he did, is in fact amazing. Further, it is indicative of a person capable of amazing things. To make it to the NHL with out ever having had a goalie coach, a couple of other things have to be in place. Among them a ridiculous amount of natural talent, a tremendous work ethic, and I think most importantly extreme mental fortitude. To actually stick as a starter for a season once you're there is unreal.
I just don't see the amazing potential. Like I said much earlier. Amazing potential is Nate MacKinnon. Amazing potential is Steven Stamkos before his draft year. 60 games of good play in the NHL is not amazing potential. Potential, for sure. Amazing potential, I don't think so.

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Goalie is a position that eats people up psychologically. Look at Bryz, he's a grown ass man that can clearly be thrown off by the nature of the position at times. Bob was a young guy that didn't speak English living in America. Never mind the actual difficulty of communicating with teammates, that's mentally draining...before you even get to the pressure of playing goal for an NHL team. The NHL is filled with shooters who see big athletic goalies all the time, and have learned to exploit bad technique and tiny openings. To succeed with no coaching, no technical foundation on athleticism alone indicates a ridiculous level of not only talent but physical preparedness and acquired coordination. The guy is a freak athlete. That combined with his aforementioned personality traits made him as likely to be a star as any young goalie in the league that year. In my opinion, worst case scenario he turned into MAF (i.e. freaky talented, a little inconsistent, technically goofy at times).
All this stuff about him not having a goalie coach and being raw and whatever else you want to call it does not mean that the guy will be anything. He played in the Russian professional leagues for parts of four years, and I assume he played prior to that somewhere. Playing professional ice hockey for four years in what is arguably the second best league in the world I would think is the equivalent of at least SOME training. Maybe he didn't have training sessions after the games or whatever, but the guy played against men (like Jaromir Jagr) on a regular basis. So enough about this "no formal goalie training."

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In the end the Bryz trade is defensible. There are reasons why it didn't look as bad as it was at the time. But there were a lot of us who were saying, even before it happened, that it was a bad idea. And some of those people were just the usual sticks in the mud who don't like anything, but there were also a lot of us who foresaw what has come to pass and said as much at the time. So the current criticism of that trade cannot honestly be merely discounted to hindsight, or dismissed with the idea that the organization just didn't catch a break with how things worked out.
I don't know that I necessarily have talked about unfair criticisms (though I may have) as much as I have been saying that the move didn't have to do with a lack of patience on the part of the Flyers, but instead was a calculated move to upgrade the goalie position with the safer, more established choice.

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05-15-2013, 09:37 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
That's 100% true. Difference is, one of you actually has a real argument to make, whilst the other is likely taking a position strictly for polemic reasons.
Haha, no I know. Bob clearly deserves it this year. I was just saying it is ridiculous to throw out the Vezina nomination because you don't think he deserved it. He was nominated, and finished second. Those were the facts at the time of the deal and those are the facts now. You can't just ignore it and say "he didn't deserve it" and act like that trumps the facts. Like I said, every year you can argue that guy A or B didn't deserve to be there and guy C or D did. It is pretty subjective when you are talking about this sort of thing, unless it is something where a guy is so far ahead that he should have been in, or so far behind that he should not have been. For instance, if Bryz had a line like .905 SV% and 3.05 GAA and a guy with a .934 SV% and 1.85 GAA didn't get nominated. Ok. But Bryz's stats were comparable to pretty much every other goalie in the top echelon of goalies that year. If Bryz didn't get nominated but let's say Kipper did, the same argument could be made that Kipper didn't deserve it and Bryz did. Or if Nabakov got the nod over Bryz I could say he didn't deserve it, etc. They were all pretty close after Ryan Miller.

Also, I'm going out of town for the next few days and likely won't respond to anything, but don't take that as a sign that I have given up the argument!

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05-15-2013, 12:10 PM
  #159
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Also, I'm going out of town for the next few days and likely won't respond to anything, but don't take that as a sign that I have given up the argument!
Give it up before you fall completely off the radar screen...

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05-15-2013, 12:13 PM
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GTD just laid out, point by point, why what Bob did in his time in Philly is rare and something special...something that showed amazing potential for the future, especially considering his circumstances...and your rebuttal is basically "nah, that's no big deal."

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05-15-2013, 04:29 PM
  #161
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and your rebuttal is basically "nah, that's no big deal."
PHHHFFFT!!!.

to which i'll answer "clearly team MVP"..


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05-16-2013, 08:34 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
He surely benefited from having a better defense and better defensive system in place, but how are you really going to quantify that? He put up those numbers. You can't just write off every goalie that plays on a team with a good defense or a defensive system. He had the skills. No one on here thought we were getting the Bryz we got. Some may have thought it wasn't the right move. Others that his stats were inflated. But I don't think anyone was thinking that Bryz would not be as good as Bob. Most people, IIRC, were in agreement that Bryz was an upgrade. Most people were in agreement that if Bob (IF) reached his potential he would be at the level was Bryz was at when the Flyers signed him. In other words, Bryz was the safer bet.
Look no further than me. I did think Bryz was going to struggle here (and I was not alone btw). I also thought Bob was going to be better than Bryzgalov in less than a season's time at the point when the trade to get Bryz was made, and I said as much. The rest of the assertions you make above are more or less true, which make the trade look at least defensible. My basic point however is that it was a foresee-ably bad idea to get Bryz.

The Flyers didn't foresee it, and that's an issue for me. Not because it's not okay to occasionally guess wrong on how a situation or player will turn out (as I said before time makes fools of us all). This wasn't one of those situations though. Bob had already shown you everything you needed to see to know that he wasn't going to be that headcase that couldn't put it all together. Combined with physical talent he was also showing, they should've known better than to ever let him go.

It's their job to see this ****. Many of us saw it easily even from a distance. And I understand that you didn't see amazing potential there (and apparently you still disagree about whether or not it was there to see). Here's the thing though, whether or not you saw amazing potential is one thing, whether or not it was there is pretty much closed to debate given how much ass he kicked this year. The proof is in the pudding, and the evidence of this past season isn't on your side my friend.


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I just don't see the amazing potential. Like I said much earlier. Amazing potential is Nate MacKinnon. Amazing potential is Steven Stamkos before his draft year. 60 games of good play in the NHL is not amazing potential. Potential, for sure. Amazing potential, I don't think so.
MacKinnon and Stamkos played in juniors. You say later in this post that the KHL is probably the second best hockey league in the world. Bob played in the KHL...with no coaching. He also played on the worst team in the KHL, a league with for less parity than the NHL, and was top ten in save percentage for goalies the year before he signed here. He was a pretty damn good.

Also, I don't really see how killing it in juniors can be amazing, but playing well for a full 60 game stretch in the NHL isn't even impressive. That makes no sense. To reference your example, Stamkos' first 60 games in the NHL weren't amazing.

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All this stuff about him not having a goalie coach and being raw and whatever else you want to call it does not mean that the guy will be anything. He played in the Russian professional leagues for parts of four years, and I assume he played prior to that somewhere. Playing professional ice hockey for four years in what is arguably the second best league in the world I would think is the equivalent of at least SOME training. Maybe he didn't have training sessions after the games or whatever, but the guy played against men (like Jaromir Jagr) on a regular basis. So enough about this "no formal goalie training."
So if I follow your argument here, experience against KHL competition is more or less the same as formal training, and thus I am wrong to bring it up as something that suggested Bob still had a much higher ceiling than what we'd seen? That's silly, and if it were the case he would not have brought all of the technical flaws into the NHL that he did. He succeeded in the KHL the same way he succeeded here, on athleticism.

Spending four years relying on your athleticism doesn't teach you how to be a good technical goaltender. It teaches you have to rely on your athleticism. So if anything the fact that he'd been playing for so long, developing certain habits, actually strengthens my argument that his lack of a technical foundation was a very big issue. An issue that, once resolved, would allow him to be one of the better goalies in the league. Again, the proof is in the pudding here.

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I don't know that I necessarily have talked about unfair criticisms (though I may have) as much as I have been saying that the move didn't have to do with a lack of patience on the part of the Flyers, but instead was a calculated move to upgrade the goalie position with the safer, more established choice.
Fair enough. If you proceed from the premise that Bryzgalov looked like a far safer bet at the time (which was an understandable opinion to have held), then you can argue that it wasn't a trade made out of impatience. I have a hard time getting there however, because when I look at what the two goalies bring to the table (and indeed this was my opinion at the time of the trade as well), the only thing Bryz had on Bob was that he'd already established himself a bit more (although a full season as a starter is establishing yourself in my book).

But if you don't agree that Bryz looked like a safer bet, rather if you share my appraisal of each goalie's abilities (an the Flyers may well have not) then the only advantage to trading for Bryz is that he is already developed into what he will be, i.e. you don't have to wait for him. Even that I find a little silly because I thought the gap between the two was not that big back then, and Bob only had room to grow.


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05-16-2013, 08:43 AM
  #163
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The day we solve our goaltending woes we should just have a damn parade whether the team wins the cup or not.

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05-16-2013, 08:56 AM
  #164
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I can only imagine what it will be like when the CBJ are in our conference and if we face them in the playoffs and Bob is the difference for Columbus. Everything is shaping up to be a haunting miscalc..especially if he does get the vezina...

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05-16-2013, 09:05 AM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
I can only imagine what it will be like when the CBJ are in our conference and if we face them in the playoffs and Bob is the difference for Columbus. Everything is shaping up to be a haunting miscalc..especially if he does get the vezina...
It's already as bad as it's going to get, only thing that can happen now is that we get to enjoy this misery for another ten years. We're paying Bryzgalov 6 million a year forever to basically suck ass, and Bob is in Columbus playing for 1.8 this year putting up a .930 season. Whether or not they give him a damn trophy doesn't mean anything to me. Although if by some miracle these two teams did play one another in the play-offs.....ugh.

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05-16-2013, 09:10 AM
  #166
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What if Bob sucks ass next season? Or, what if the Flyers torch him in the playoffs if they meet? Just hypotheticals.

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05-16-2013, 09:17 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
What if Bob sucks ass next season? Or, what if the Flyers torch him in the playoffs if they meet? Just hypotheticals.
Here is my "parenthetical" (let's hope Bob is a mirage...but I have a bad feeling he isn't).

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05-16-2013, 12:08 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Here is my "parenthetical" (let's hope Bob is a mirage...but I have a bad feeling he isn't).
I'm just saying it's happened before.

GP A PIM Min GA EN SO GAA W L T Svs Pct
57 2 0 3420 117 4 3 2.05 29 18 9 1469 0.926


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05-16-2013, 12:14 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
I'm just saying it's happened before.

GP A PIM Min GA EN SO GAA W L T Svs Pct
57 2 0 3420 117 4 3 2.05 29 18 9 1469 0.926

I tend to think Bob will end up being the real deal but that's a valid point. Also when you add in the shortened season and Bob trends of doing well in the first half of season and slowing down in the second half. I can't blame anybody who wants to see him doing do it will a full season next year before they proclaim anything.

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05-16-2013, 12:34 PM
  #170
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I tend to think Bob will end up being the real deal but that's a valid point. Also when you add in the shortened season and Bob trends of doing well in the first half of season and slowing down in the second half. I can't blame anybody who wants to see him doing do it will a full season next year before they proclaim anything.
What has me thinking he's the real deal is his time in the KHL as well. When you factor that in he played 52 games this year...and he maintained a .932 in BOTH leagues. He hasn't been able to maintain consistency past about 30 games in the past, and if he's learned how to do that...with his work ethic and talent...there's good reason to believe he isn't a one hit wonder. Will he maintain a constant .930? I doubt it, not annually. But there's reason to believe he can remain a solid starter...and little reason to be surprised if he DOES figure out how to maintain his play at high levels.

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05-16-2013, 12:44 PM
  #171
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What has me thinking he's the real deal is his time in the KHL as well. When you factor that in he played 52 games this year...and he maintained a .932 in BOTH leagues. He hasn't been able to maintain consistency past about 30 games in the past, and if he's learned how to do that...with his work ethic and talent...there's good reason to believe he isn't a one hit wonder. Will he maintain a constant .930? I doubt it, not annually. But there's reason to believe he can remain a solid starter...and little reason to be surprised if he DOES figure out how to maintain his play at high levels.
That's absolutely true. However, can you agree there is a chance he won't be good?

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05-16-2013, 12:44 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
What if Bob sucks ass next season? Or, what if the Flyers torch him in the playoffs if they meet? Just hypotheticals.
I have a feeling that even if Bobrovsky slides back a bit he will still have better numbers then Bryzgalov.
What if Mason isnt the franchise goalie Snider thinks he is after that 6 game tryout?
Maybe sometime in my lifetime the Flyers will draft or sign a young goalie, develop him and hold on to him and ride out the ups and downs every goalie, especially young ones go thru. Some refuse to call that lack of patience. whatever.
We have no problem riding out the struggles of younger players of other positions.
Maybe we should trade Couturier for some 31 year old forward with a Selke Nomination under his belt. its the same logic in the Bryzgalov/Bobrovsky fiasco isnt it?

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05-16-2013, 12:45 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
What has me thinking he's the real deal is his time in the KHL as well. When you factor that in he played 52 games this year...and he maintained a .932 in BOTH leagues. He hasn't been able to maintain consistency past about 30 games in the past, and if he's learned how to do that...with his work ethic and talent...there's good reason to believe he isn't a one hit wonder. Will he maintain a constant .930? I doubt it, not annually. But there's reason to believe he can remain a solid starter...and little reason to be surprised if he DOES figure out how to maintain his play at high levels.
Yeah, I'm just saying I understand both sides of the argument. I'm curious to see how he responds next year regardless.

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05-16-2013, 12:47 PM
  #174
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That's absolutely true. However, can you agree there is a chance he won't be good?
Sure. But at this point I think the chance of that is decreasing. He just put together a year of solid play after correcting some of the bigger flaws in his game. He isn't a poorly adjusted headcase, either.

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Maybe we should trade Couturier for some 31 year old forward with a Selke Nomination under his belt. its the same logic in the Bryzgalov/Bobrovsky fiasco isnt it?
I would crap my brain.

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05-16-2013, 12:47 PM
  #175
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Sure. But at this point I think the chance of that is decreasing. He just put together a year of solid play after correcting some of the bigger flaws in his game. He isn't a poorly adjusted headcase, either.
I'd love to see the kid do well, especially for the Blue Jackets. I wanna see that team succeed.

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