HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Notices

Bernier trade in offseason?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-16-2013, 09:09 AM
  #201
Gentle Ben Kenobi
That's no moon......
 
Gentle Ben Kenobi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tatooine
Posts: 19,672
vCash: 863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black1963 View Post
You're looking for someone like Morrow or dare I say, Torres. Both solid players.
Boooooooooooo!

Gentle Ben Kenobi is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 09:21 AM
  #202
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
So Voynov gets a 600% increase in his salary after 45 points in 102 NHL Games played and 7 points in 27 playoff games? I seriously doubt that. Look, I'm as big a VV26 fan as anyone but I can't see DL giving him that huge a raise after backing up the truck on Doughty. DD8 was a Norris Trophy finalist and he got a tad over a 200% raise after 126 points in 240 games and 11 points in 12 playoff games. VV26 wasn't the 2nd overall pick in the draft and he hasn't accomplished nearly as much as Doughty had after his ELC was completed.

Maybe he's offered $3M AT BEST (which is still almost a 400% raise). If he gets an offer sheet for more (which isn't a guarantee and will only happen if negotiations drag on I believe), fine, you pretty much have to match unless it's for the numbers YOU'RE talking about but 3YR/$9M is about the most DL should do. That gets VV26 to age 26 as FA and plenty of time for him to earn a huge deal.

I mean Erik Karlsson's career numbers are WAAAAAY better than VV26's, he won the Norris Trophy and he didn't even get a 600% raise.

I think you need to rethink VV26's contract demands.
You should have read all of the threads that lead up to that break down and all of the talk surrounding the reason for the numbers that I came to before commenting on that one little part of it. I agree with the idea that VV will get less than $5m per year (though more than $3m but that is debatable).

You do however only further my point and the reasoning for what I call an exercise in futility. The debate had turned into rather or not the amount of cap space that we had was written in stone.

I argued that it wasn't at all and that there was wiggle room all over the place. I was asked how I would make the room and that lead to me putting numbers down. Some already determined (already contracted players) and some speculative.

So Voynovs raise was placed as it was in an attempt to spend cap space. It was a high end of the scale for speculative pay and put in place to help prove that even with everyone getting paid that there would still be cap space available or that there were too many variables to form a definitive statement on the matter either way at this point.

My position is that if JB was signed to an offersheet of less than $3.134.088 or the league min compensation to receive a 1st and a 3rd pick that DL would match it and retain JB for the mandatory one season that the Kings would match the offer.

I was told that the cap was written in stone and that the money wasn't there. Thus the debate.

I do have a much better understanding of where we are capwise but I will hopefully forget it as soon as possible as I don't concern myself with this part of the game. As to VV's number listed I went through and found what I believe to be comparable players and went with the high end the range.
If it is too high then it supports my position of their being room under our current cap to find more money. The number listed today isn't written in stone. Again, that was the point of what I was up to and not the specifics of what I thought each player would actually make. Its a JB thread so if you want to discuss VV's value for next season and going forward we should start a thread for it or I am happy to respond via pm if you want.

So no, I don't agree entirely with the idea that VV will only get $3m per as you feel he will but I do agree that he isn't likely to get as much as I have listed in the exercise that you commented on.


Last edited by etherialone: 05-16-2013 at 09:45 AM.
etherialone is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 10:04 AM
  #203
northernKing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
So Voynov gets a 600% increase in his salary after 45 points in 102 NHL Games played and 7 points in 27 playoff games? I seriously doubt that. Look, I'm as big a VV26 fan as anyone but I can't see DL giving him that huge a raise after backing up the truck on Doughty. DD8 was a Norris Trophy finalist and he got a tad over a 200% raise after 126 points in 240 games and 11 points in 12 playoff games. VV26 wasn't the 2nd overall pick in the draft and he hasn't accomplished nearly as much as Doughty had after his ELC was completed.

Maybe he's offered $3M AT BEST (which is still almost a 400% raise). If he gets an offer sheet for more (which isn't a guarantee and will only happen if negotiations drag on I believe), fine, you pretty much have to match unless it's for the numbers YOU'RE talking about but 3YR/$9M is about the most DL should do. That gets VV26 to age 26 as FA and plenty of time for him to earn a huge deal.

I mean Erik Karlsson's career numbers are WAAAAAY better than VV26's, he won the Norris Trophy and he didn't even get a 600% raise.

I think you need to rethink VV26's contract demands.
Totally agree!! In this thread I posted that I think DL will offer Voyonov a two year deal similar to the ones guys like Subban, Bogosian, Del Zotto and Kulikov signed. Average cap hit of around $2.5M with likely the 2nd yr at around $3.0M to ensure that's the QO and starting point of his next contract

northernKing is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 10:12 AM
  #204
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by northernKing View Post
Totally agree!! In this thread I posted that I think DL will offer Voyonov a two year deal similar to the ones guys like Subban, Bogosian, Del Zotto and Kulikov signed. Average cap hit of around $2.5M with likely the 2nd yr at around $3.0M to ensure that's the QO and starting point of his next contract
I agree too and that gives us even more money to work with.

etherialone is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 10:42 AM
  #205
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,005
vCash: 500
Not going to quote your monster post TG, because I can see will agree to disagree on this topic, which is fine. I respect your opinion, i just don't share it.

I do have one point to make about the 3 rookies in the line up next year. You pointed out Nolan, King and Voynov last year. It's a valid point, but it's not easily comparible to placing Toffoli, Pearson and Andreoff into the line up next year.

Firstly, all three are forwards, where as only two of King, Nolan and Voynov were forwards. Voynov's on the blueline. You're spreading your rookies out differently that way, and really it only affected the one line, since King and Nolan played together largely.

With Toffoli, Pearson and Andreoff, there's a good chance you'd have a rookie on three lines. That's asking a lot. Or you could end up with two rookies on the 2nd line, once again asking a lot from two kids, and odds are some compensating from our veteran forwards.

Secondly, Voynov had 231 pro level games under his belt when he was recalled permanently, King had 200 and Nolan had 118 (I'm not including the games they played in the AHL during the lockout in those totals). That's 549 pro games (not counting playoffs) before they made the NHL full-time.

Toffoli, Pearson and Andreoff have a combined 207 games. Massive difference in terms of experience and capability to jump into the NHL and compete, not to mention Pearson will barely be 20, Toffoli will be 21 and Andreoff will be 22 next season, while Voynov was almost 22 and both King and Nolan were 22 when they made the jump.

kingsfan is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 11:00 AM
  #206
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Not going to quote your monster post TG, because I can see will agree to disagree on this topic, which is fine. I respect your opinion, i just don't share it.

I do have one point to make about the 3 rookies in the line up next year. You pointed out Nolan, King and Voynov last year. It's a valid point, but it's not easily comparible to placing Toffoli, Pearson and Andreoff into the line up next year.

Firstly, all three are forwards, where as only two of King, Nolan and Voynov were forwards. Voynov's on the blueline. You're spreading your rookies out differently that way, and really it only affected the one line, since King and Nolan played together largely.

With Toffoli, Pearson and Andreoff, there's a good chance you'd have a rookie on three lines. That's asking a lot. Or you could end up with two rookies on the 2nd line, once again asking a lot from two kids, and odds are some compensating from our veteran forwards.

Secondly, Voynov had 231 pro level games under his belt when he was recalled permanently, King had 200 and Nolan had 118 (I'm not including the games they played in the AHL during the lockout in those totals). That's 549 pro games (not counting playoffs) before they made the NHL full-time.

Toffoli, Pearson and Andreoff have a combined 207 games. Massive difference in terms of experience and capability to jump into the NHL and compete, not to mention Pearson will barely be 20, Toffoli will be 21 and Andreoff will be 22 next season, while Voynov was almost 22 and both King and Nolan were 22 when they made the jump.

That is true and those are very fair points. I am not certain that DL will feel the same way that I do about the potential of having 3 rookies on the roster at the same time.

I think it is clear that TT will be there next year and I see him as playing RW on the 3rd line but that doesn't work perfectly with our current roster so I don't know where we will play him.

I can see TP making our second line LW. He was drafted as a 20yo and while he has limited experience under his belt at the pro level he has developed a solid pro level game so it isn't out of teh question.

Since AndyA would be a 4rth liner I think we could manage his minutes and since his forte is playing solid defencive hockey with the ability to contribute O as a secondary skill he might be ready to make the jump too.

Will we do it? I honestly don't know and think that we wouldn't likely do so but if pushed (which is where I was going with my response) I could see us doing it and it working out alright. TT is fine as a 3rd line though he is way more suited to top 6 but we don't have room or need for him there just yet. TP should get a shot at second line LW (upgrade over King and Penner in many ways) and Andy on the fourth line.

It spreads them out allot so I could see it if needed.



I have thought about this entire thing and had an idea to shorten the matter.

I believe that if we manage our signings and make a deal, maybe two that we will have more than $2.5m left under the cap. If things were to stand the way that they look to be today then I think we will be lucky to have $5 to $600k left before we start the season and that we could possibly go over the cap a bit if we weren't careful.

Does that make more sense?

etherialone is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 01:03 PM
  #207
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,005
vCash: 500
Why do you peg Pearson for the 2nd line but not Toffoli?

kingsfan is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 01:33 PM
  #208
Holden Caulfield
Moderator
Perennial Skeptic
 
Holden Caulfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,823
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
So Voynov gets a 600% increase in his salary after 45 points in 102 NHL Games played and 7 points in 27 playoff games? I seriously doubt that. Look, I'm as big a VV26 fan as anyone but I can't see DL giving him that huge a raise after backing up the truck on Doughty. DD8 was a Norris Trophy finalist and he got a tad over a 200% raise after 126 points in 240 games and 11 points in 12 playoff games. VV26 wasn't the 2nd overall pick in the draft and he hasn't accomplished nearly as much as Doughty had after his ELC was completed.

Maybe he's offered $3M AT BEST (which is still almost a 400% raise). If he gets an offer sheet for more (which isn't a guarantee and will only happen if negotiations drag on I believe), fine, you pretty much have to match unless it's for the numbers YOU'RE talking about but 3YR/$9M is about the most DL should do. That gets VV26 to age 26 as FA and plenty of time for him to earn a huge deal.

I mean Erik Karlsson's career numbers are WAAAAAY better than VV26's, he won the Norris Trophy and he didn't even get a 600% raise.

I think you need to rethink VV26's contract demands.
What? Doughty made 875K his final year before the new contract, so using your "formula", he got a 800% raise.

And you are looking at this the wrong way. What Voynov is currently making is irrelevant, completely. Looking at % raises is something I have never seen, because that is not the way the NHL works at all. This is not like a normal job where you slowly work your way up. NHL players use comparables to leverage as much money as possible as early as possible, and there contracts can fluctuate up and down over their career. Looking at % raises is not the right way to address this situation.

Voynov is proving himself to be a legitmate top 4 defenseman. Matt Greene managed to get 2.95 million. Voynov is a hell of a lot better Matt Greene. I think it will take at least 3.5million per to lock him up, if we are not going to buy any UFA years (it 7mil/2y, 10.5mil/3y). That's the minimum. Probably more. If we want to buy any UFA years (5/6/7y deals), that cost goes up. This kid is a stud and will get paid one way or the other.

__________________


Holden Caulfield is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 01:46 PM
  #209
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
What? Doughty made 875K his final year before the new contract, so using your "formula", he got a 800% raise.

And you are looking at this the wrong way. What Voynov is currently making is irrelevant, completely. Looking at % raises is something I have never seen, because that is not the way the NHL works at all. This is not like a normal job where you slowly work your way up. NHL players use comparables to leverage as much money as possible as early as possible, and there contracts can fluctuate up and down over their career. Looking at % raises is not the right way to address this situation.

Voynov is proving himself to be a legitmate top 4 defenseman. Matt Greene managed to get 2.95 million. Voynov is a hell of a lot better Matt Greene. I think it will take at least 3.5million per to lock him up, if we are not going to buy any UFA years (it 7mil/2y, 10.5mil/3y). That's the minimum. Probably more. If we want to buy any UFA years (5/6/7y deals), that cost goes up. This kid is a stud and will get paid one way or the other.


The players I used for comps were guys like OEL ($5.250mper) JSchiltz (elc $3.35) and Carlson ($3.967) to name a few. I then looked at the current projections for each of these players salaries over the next few years and came up with what I believe to be the high end of what VV will make for next year.

The reason I use next year as a qualifier is that is all that was pertinent to the thread but I believe that VV will get a contract that will pay him between $4.5 and $5.2m for at least 5 years when we do sign him. I just think it will be offset giving us a little room next season.


I do agree that the idea of using percentages to determine a players fiscal value to a team isn't right but figured it was for another thread. The whole idea that you can determine a players pay based on a certain percentage increase being what is acceptable or not doesn't make any sense if it is being used as the only determining factor.

Doughty's raise was my first thought too.

etherialone is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 01:50 PM
  #210
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Why do you peg Pearson for the 2nd line but not Toffoli?
Solely on availability of space.

TT should start off getting the majority of his time with our second line at RW. He won't unseat Carter at that spot so he has to go somewhere.

He won't unseat JW on the first line just yet either.

He has to play somewhere so I put him on the third line due to availability. I am not entirely comfortable with the idea but it appears to be our best option.

Pearson would be filling an open roster spot and an area of immediate need. That is why I would give him a shot as our 2nd line LW. He should be an upgrade after adjustment time to both Penner and King offensively and an acceptable exchange in every other area or at least as much as can be expected of a rookie.

etherialone is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 02:09 PM
  #211
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Solely on availability of space.

TT should start off getting the majority of his time with our second line at RW. He won't unseat Carter at that spot so he has to go somewhere.

He won't unseat JW on the first line just yet either.

He has to play somewhere so I put him on the third line due to availability. I am not entirely comfortable with the idea but it appears to be our best option.

Pearson would be filling an open roster spot and an area of immediate need. That is why I would give him a shot as our 2nd line LW. He should be an upgrade after adjustment time to both Penner and King offensively and an acceptable exchange in every other area or at least as much as can be expected of a rookie.
I think DS can shuffle things around to get Toffoli on the top 2 lines, not to mention, the kid may just have to learn to adapt to LW.

Toffoli is the better offensively skilled player of the two, and does have a bit more NHl expereince and gel with the team than Pearson. At least the rest of the team has actually met Toffoli.

Pearson seems more likely to succeed in the NHL on the 3rd line, at least to start. You drop a kid with zero NHL expereince in on the top line and you're just asking to crush his spirit if he flops, which is a likelihood in his first go around. Easy him in, don't shove him in.

kingsfan is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 02:18 PM
  #212
Luc Gretzky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
What? Doughty made 875K his final year before the new contract, so using your "formula", he got a 800% raise.

And you are looking at this the wrong way. What Voynov is currently making is irrelevant, completely. Looking at % raises is something I have never seen, because that is not the way the NHL works at all. This is not like a normal job where you slowly work your way up. NHL players use comparables to leverage as much money as possible as early as possible, and there contracts can fluctuate up and down over their career. Looking at % raises is not the right way to address this situation.

Voynov is proving himself to be a legitmate top 4 defenseman. Matt Greene managed to get 2.95 million. Voynov is a hell of a lot better Matt Greene. I think it will take at least 3.5million per to lock him up, if we are not going to buy any UFA years (it 7mil/2y, 10.5mil/3y). That's the minimum. Probably more. If we want to buy any UFA years (5/6/7y deals), that cost goes up. This kid is a stud and will get paid one way or the other.
After bonus', Doughty's cap hit was 3.475 mil: http://capgeek.com/player/1010

I totally agree with those thinking it'll be a 2 year deal similar to PK Suban. VV has not played enough NHL games to get that big of a raise (even though we know his value is higher long term). If he were to get big money now, DL probably offers him the same deal he signed Jack Johnson to.

Luc Gretzky is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 02:19 PM
  #213
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
I think DS can shuffle things around to get Toffoli on the top 2 lines, not to mention, the kid may just have to learn to adapt to LW.

Toffoli is the better offensively skilled player of the two, and does have a bit more NHl expereince and gel with the team than Pearson. At least the rest of the team has actually met Toffoli.

Pearson seems more likely to succeed in the NHL on the 3rd line, at least to start. You drop a kid with zero NHL expereince in on the top line and you're just asking to crush his spirit if he flops, which is a likelihood in his first go around. Easy him in, don't shove him in.
You may be right on everything but TT having to learn to play LW.

I watched them try to make him do it in the OPJ on the kid habs and it was ugly. They also tried a bit in Ottawa and the results didn't work at all.

I would let him play center again before I would even consider trying him on LW. Think Loktionov but slower and out of position.

I do agree that TP would make a solid start at LW on our 3rd line but ultimately he is a top 6 LW and has really solid O awareness and skill.

I would like to see him lined up next to Stoll (and eventually Vey) with Kozun or the right side. That would be a very good NHL like in a year.

I heard earlier today that we might actually give a serious look at Shore making the team next season. It seems contrary to what we have done in the past and I saw Shore play live for several games again this year and I don't see him as being ready but things are what they are so who knows.

I will be a bit surprised if it goes down like that but I do believe that the person I heard it from believes that it could happen.

etherialone is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 02:20 PM
  #214
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc Gretzky View Post
After bonus', Doughty's cap hit was 3.475 mil: http://capgeek.com/player/1010
SO his percentage increase to $7m waaaaaaaaaaaas?

etherialone is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 02:26 PM
  #215
Holden Caulfield
Moderator
Perennial Skeptic
 
Holden Caulfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,823
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc Gretzky View Post
After bonus', Doughty's cap hit was 3.475 mil: http://capgeek.com/player/1010

I totally agree with those thinking it'll be a 2 year deal similar to PK Suban. VV has not played enough NHL games to get that big of a raise (even though we know his value is higher long term). If he were to get big money now, DL probably offers him the same deal he signed Jack Johnson to.
Oh I am well aware of that.

Caphit /= Salary. Bonuses /= Salary. It's unlikely Doughty received all of his bonuses in the that final year, most bonuses are notoriously hard to get (there's a listing of what bonuses teams can offer and for how much. It's pretty limiting. People too often confuse bonuses and caphit with salary.

Holden Caulfield is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 02:39 PM
  #216
Fishhead
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,066
vCash: 500
I still wish I knew DL's thoughts on Penner, and whether he has already planned to move him out for space for a youngster. It would definitely help clarify what he would be looking for in return for Bernier.

If he keeps up his play, I find it highly likely that Penner will be retained. Fans are chanting his name in the stands. Both "Penner" and "Pancakes" chants were going during the game Monday - no chants for any other players, mind you. The fans love him. The Kings will be forced to sign him. The Kings must sign him. He is a cult hero.

Fishhead is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 02:46 PM
  #217
sinister6000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 94
vCash: 500
A 1st round pick, and a top prospect playing in college or juniors.

sinister6000 is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 03:04 PM
  #218
kinghock
Registered User
 
kinghock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Mahwah,NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishhead View Post
I still wish I knew DL's thoughts on Penner, and whether he has already planned to move him out for space for a youngster. It would definitely help clarify what he would be looking for in return for Bernier. If he keeps up his play, I find it highly likely that Penner will be retained. Fans are chanting his name in the stands. Both "Penner" and "Pancakes" chants were going during the game Monday - no chants for any other players, mind you. The fans love him. The Kings will be forced to sign him. The Kings must sign him. He is a cult hero.

In my opinion without Penner and Regher/Greene Kings will be psychically dominated by physical teams.
Penner must be retained.

kinghock is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 03:13 PM
  #219
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishhead View Post
I still wish I knew DL's thoughts on Penner, and whether he has already planned to move him out for space for a youngster. It would definitely help clarify what he would be looking for in return for Bernier.

If he keeps up his play, I find it highly likely that Penner will be retained. Fans are chanting his name in the stands. Both "Penner" and "Pancakes" chants were going during the game Monday - no chants for any other players, mind you. The fans love him. The Kings will be forced to sign him. The Kings must sign him. He is a cult hero.
He deserves to be one for his twitter feed.

If he's a cult hero for his play, then either that cult only watches the playoffs and about 10% of the regular season, or they are a group saddled with extremely low expectations and an overwhleming affection for someone who looks like a grownup Alfalfa from the Little Rascals.

kingsfan is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 03:43 PM
  #220
tsanuri
Registered User
 
tsanuri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Grants Pass OR
Country: United States
Posts: 2,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc Gretzky View Post
After bonus', Doughty's cap hit was 3.475 mil: http://capgeek.com/player/1010

I totally agree with those thinking it'll be a 2 year deal similar to PK Suban. VV has not played enough NHL games to get that big of a raise (even though we know his value is higher long term). If he were to get big money now, DL probably offers him the same deal he signed Jack Johnson to.
Which is still almost 4.5M a year.

tsanuri is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 03:54 PM
  #221
tsanuri
Registered User
 
tsanuri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Grants Pass OR
Country: United States
Posts: 2,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
So Voynov gets a 600% increase in his salary after 45 points in 102 NHL Games played and 7 points in 27 playoff games? I seriously doubt that. Look, I'm as big a VV26 fan as anyone but I can't see DL giving him that huge a raise after backing up the truck on Doughty. DD8 was a Norris Trophy finalist and he got a tad over a 200% raise after 126 points in 240 games and 11 points in 12 playoff games. VV26 wasn't the 2nd overall pick in the draft and he hasn't accomplished nearly as much as Doughty had after his ELC was completed.

Maybe he's offered $3M AT BEST (which is still almost a 400% raise). If he gets an offer sheet for more (which isn't a guarantee and will only happen if negotiations drag on I believe), fine, you pretty much have to match unless it's for the numbers YOU'RE talking about but 3YR/$9M is about the most DL should do. That gets VV26 to age 26 as FA and plenty of time for him to earn a huge deal.

I mean Erik Karlsson's career numbers are WAAAAAY better than VV26's, he won the Norris Trophy and he didn't even get a 600% raise.

I think you need to rethink VV26's contract demands.
That's if you count all performance bonuses. Which for the most part are almost never earned. But Karlsson got 500% even counting those bonuses. When looking at stats one of the closest comps is OEL. I don't think he should get as much as him because VV is not our number 1 that goes to DD. But I have said all along I think 3.5 is the starting point. And I really hope we can get him there. But I can see something up to the 5M mark happening. I'm hoping for a 2 year deal just to let the cap go up and DL to maybe offer 3M next and 4M the year after which would be the 3.5M and show VV that if he continues to perform that he will get into that 5-5.5M range in 2 years.
I think VV numbers could go way up if he got time on the number 1 PP. But the team has chosen to run with 4 forwards on that unit. But having DD with VV would make very hard choices for every team that plays us. You can't cover both points very well.

tsanuri is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 04:15 PM
  #222
northernKing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsanuri View Post
That's if you count all performance bonuses. Which for the most part are almost never earned. But Karlsson got 500% even counting those bonuses. When looking at stats one of the closest comps is OEL. I don't think he should get as much as him because VV is not our number 1 that goes to DD. But I have said all along I think 3.5 is the starting point. And I really hope we can get him there. But I can see something up to the 5M mark happening. I'm hoping for a 2 year deal just to let the cap go up and DL to maybe offer 3M next and 4M the year after which would be the 3.5M and show VV that if he continues to perform that he will get into that 5-5.5M range in 2 years.
I think VV numbers could go way up if he got time on the number 1 PP. But the team has chosen to run with 4 forwards on that unit. But having DD with VV would make very hard choices for every team that plays us. You can't cover both points very well.
I'd be shocked if DL gave VV more than a $3M cap hit on a two year deal. Too many comparable dmen signed deals this year at lower costs. The term will likely be two years because as mentioned it would buy LA time for the cap to go up. The key will be VV salary in the second yr. I see the contract being back loaded like Subbans. Maybe $1.5M and $3.5M or $2.0M and $3.0M

northernKing is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 04:20 PM
  #223
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by northernKing View Post
I'd be shocked if DL gave VV more than a $3M cap hit on a two year deal. Too many comparable dmen signed deals this year at lower costs. The term will likely be two years because as mentioned it would buy LA time for the cap to go up. The key will be VV salary in the second yr. I see the contract being back loaded like Subbans. Maybe $1.5M and $3.5M or $2.0M and $3.0M
Has anybody thought that it's not up to DL solely, but DL and VV? If VV insists on a 5 year deal, what then? COnsidering the limited financial flexibility and lack of NHl ready depth we have gives him some bargaining power.

kingsfan is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 04:29 PM
  #224
northernKing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Has anybody thought that it's not up to DL solely, but DL and VV? If VV insists on a 5 year deal, what then? COnsidering the limited financial flexibility and lack of NHl ready depth we have gives him some bargaining power.
Of course VV has a big say in it but DL is well known for his charts and slotting in of players. Personally I just think the two parties come to a two year deal and I'm sure DL will outline his plan to VV. A two year deal would be up after contracts to Mitchell, Williams and Stoll have expired. Add in the cap going up and VV will eventually get his 6-8 yr deal from LA for $4.5M+

northernKing is offline  
Old
05-16-2013, 04:34 PM
  #225
northernKing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,838
vCash: 500
Heck a 5 or 6 yr deal isn't out of the question but just think VV would be better served signing a two year deal and proving himself a little more as a top end dman. If he wanted a 5 yr deal minimum then something like $2M,$2M,$3M,$3M and $4M seems fair. Cap hit of $2.8M

northernKing is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:51 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.