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Habs' off-season moves (all trades, proposals & free agent talk here) III

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Old
05-16-2013, 01:50 PM
  #176
dmanfish90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian70 View Post
Bergevin doesn't have the picks to get a top 10. A 25th (23rd at best) + 34th + 36th doesn't get you a top 10 pick. But you can add another by trading the 34th and the 36th which would get you a late 1st rounder.
That's if PIT and CHI lose both their series this round, which I don't think is happening. So let's say for argument's sake it is 25th.

Why would you trade two early second round picks for 1 late 1st round pick. Is the difference in talent level from early 2nd to late 1st really that different...?

Anyways these posts about AK46 are comical. Don't bring him back, he's a younger, bit bigger and more physical version of AK27, except AK27 could dangle the **** out of you at AK46's age...

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05-16-2013, 02:08 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Yeah, it's very hard to acquire a top 5-10 pick... but that's not the argument. 1st round picks get traded all the time.



Maybe that is what he meant. But still, to not trade a 1st in this or "any other draft?" I would hope the Habs are eventually in the position where trading futures for players makes sense.
It may make sense to trade a 1st rounder for a great roster player but not until you've already stocked the cupboards and don't need any more prospects.

As Bergevin has said on several occasion, he will not mortgage the future on a quick fix player as I eluded to when I compared him to Burke. Bergevin also said on several occasions he intends to build through the draft. With that in mind, trading away your 1st for a quick fix player doesn't fit the grassroots approach the Habs have consitently said they will stick to to rebuild.

I don't mean they'llnever trade a 1st, just not for the forseeable future or for as long as we become a serious, perrenial contender.

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05-16-2013, 02:15 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Treb View Post
I still believe a coach like Therrien could be good for AK46. Martin was probably the worst coach possible for him. IMHO, AK46 would be great with Eller and Bourque.

Pacioretty- Plekanec - Gallagher
Galchenyuk - DD - Gionta
Bourque - Eller - AK
Mix of Moen,White,Dumont, Leblanc, Bournival,possibly Halpern/Blunden/other UFA and Prust

Markov - Subban
Emelin - Gorges
Bouillon/Tinordi - Diaz
an ak46 - eller - bourque line would be a beast line physically at least, just thinking about the mayhem they would cause on the forecheck makes me giggly. but keep in mind that you are essentially putting two moody inconsistent wingers with eller. although eller and ak have good chemistry, im not so sure that's a good thing.

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Old
05-16-2013, 02:16 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
That's if PIT and CHI lose both their series this round, which I don't think is happening. So let's say for argument's sake it is 25th.

Why would you trade two early second round picks for 1 late 1st round pick. Is the difference in talent level from early 2nd to late 1st really that different...?

Anyways these posts about AK46 are comical. Don't bring him back, he's a younger, bit bigger and more physical version of AK27, except AK27 could dangle the **** out of you at AK46's age...
You would trade picks at a specific moment during the draft if a prospect you like is available. If, for instance, Habs have two prospects they badly want at pick 25; they could trade to get the 26th as well and grab both prospects.

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05-16-2013, 02:23 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
I doubt 95% of NHL players have been scratched in the middle of a playoff series but I digress.

Any team that would want Ak much less persue him deserves him. I can only hope that the Habs are not one of these teams. The good news is, it's almost a complete certainty that we are not one of those teams.
One of the keys to building a team is good asset management.

A couple of pages ago posters were talking about Domenic Moore, who signed with Florida as a FA and then we paid Florida a 2nd round pick for him a couple of months later. This type of bad asset management got Gauthier fired because when a few of the regulars went down the cupboard was empty.

If we trade Bourque for a 2nd a decent prospect and sign AK, maybe don't improve our team in the here and now but our future becomes brighter and that is good asset management.

We probably won't get AK but the long-term effect of what you believe is that we'll keep firing coaches and GM's until "they" get it. Good asset management makes for smart , successful coaches and bad asset management makes for "see you later" losers.

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Old
05-16-2013, 02:33 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Treb View Post
I still believe a coach like Therrien could be good for AK46. Martin was probably the worst coach possible for him. IMHO, AK46 would be great with Eller and Bourque.

Pacioretty- Plekanec - Gallagher
Galchenyuk - DD - Gionta
Bourque - Eller - AK
Mix of Moen,White,Dumont, Leblanc, Bournival,possibly Halpern/Blunden/other UFA and Prust

Markov - Subban
Emelin - Gorges
Bouillon/Tinordi - Diaz
Drop DD, bring back Halpern and you might just be on to something. I also believe that AK would thrive under Therrien..... most nights.... i'd hope....

Patches - Pleks - Gionta
Bourque - Eller - AK
Prust - Galch - Gally
Moen - Halpern - White

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Old
05-16-2013, 02:36 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
One of the keys to building a team is good asset management.

A couple of pages ago posters were talking about Domenic Moore, who signed with Florida as a FA and then we paid Florida a 2nd round pick for him a couple of months later. This type of bad asset management got Gauthier fired because when a few of the regulars went down the cupboard was empty.

If we trade Bourque for a 2nd a decent prospect and sign AK, maybe don't improve our team in the here and now but our future becomes brighter and that is good asset management.

We probably won't get AK but the long-term effect of what you believe is that we'll keep firing coaches and GM's until "they" get it. Good asset management makes for smart , successful coaches and bad asset management makes for "see you later" losers.
No, we become the New York Islanders.

We have great prospects.
We have great picks
We have no season success.

Considering AK didn't get an offer (or at least one he liked) speaks volumes to what people think of him and a lot of teams could use some goal scoring help.

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Old
05-16-2013, 02:41 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
One of the keys to building a team is good asset management.

A couple of pages ago posters were talking about Domenic Moore, who signed with Florida as a FA and then we paid Florida a 2nd round pick for him a couple of months later. This type of bad asset management got Gauthier fired because when a few of the regulars went down the cupboard was empty.

If we trade Bourque for a 2nd a decent prospect and sign AK, maybe don't improve our team in the here and now but our future becomes brighter and that is good asset management.

We probably won't get AK but the long-term effect of what you believe is that we'll keep firing coaches and GM's until "they" get it. Good asset management makes for smart , successful coaches and bad asset management makes for "see you later" losers.
Holy **** I totally forgot we traded a 2nd rounder for Moore. Yeah, definitely bad asset management, but what did you expect out of PG?

If we traded Bourque for a 2nd rounder, I would be like through the roof happy and laugh at the team that took him (not really, cuz I think Bourque, if consistent, could be lethal). But still, building through the draft is key, and having high draft picks will definitely help, especially in this year's draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian70 View Post
You would trade picks at a specific moment during the draft if a prospect you like is available. If, for instance, Habs have two prospects they badly want at pick 25; they could trade to get the 26th as well and grab both prospects.
My question to you is, say they did want both right, and they were to give up their 34th and 36th pick for the 26th pick. Now is the talent difference from 26th to 34th and 36th so vast that having 3 prospects drafted in the first 35ish picks is worse than have 2 draft picks in the first 25ish picks?

If that's the case in this draft then I say do it, but the problem is the draft is always a crapshoot for the most part as you go down further into the draft. The more picks you have in higher rounds, the better odds you have at picking a future stud/good player for your team. Now the odds of having two first rounders and having only 1 being a great player is high. Having both first rounders being great players is a lot lower. However having 2/3 of our first 3 picks (25, 34, 36) being great players is, IMO, a lot higher than having both 1st rounders being great players.

I mean I could be talking out of my ass, but looking at past drafts (take 2003 as an example, a very strong draft class) and this seems to be the case...

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Old
05-16-2013, 02:47 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
No, we become the New York Islanders.

We have great prospects.
We have great picks
We have no season success.

Considering AK didn't get an offer (or at least one he liked) speaks volumes to what people think of him and a lot of teams could use some goal scoring help.
Adding a 2nd round draft pick and a prospect is not going to make us the Islanders.

When the Habs were loaded with talented players and prospects we could afford to take this "Higher Road Approach" but we aren't and haven't been that team for a long time now.

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05-16-2013, 02:51 PM
  #185
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What about throwing a pick or two at Minnesota to get Clutterbuck? From what I've read Minnesota fans weren't too happy with him this year, and he'd look great on the 3rd/4th line.

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Old
05-16-2013, 02:52 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
One of the keys to building a team is good asset management. A couple of pages ago posters were talking about Domenic Moore, who signed with Florida as a FA and then we paid Florida a 2nd round pick for him a couple of months later. This type of bad asset management got Gauthier fired because when a few of the regulars went down the cupboard was empty.

If we trade Bourque for a 2nd a decent prospect and sign AK, maybe don't improve our team in the here and now but our future becomes brighter and that is good asset management.

We probably won't get AK but the long-term effect of what you believe is that we'll keep firing coaches and GM's until "they" get it. Good asset management makes for smart , successful coaches and bad asset management makes for "see you later" losers.
Signing AK goes against the very premise of your statement. Anything after that losing all meaning as it's hinged on "good asset management."

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05-16-2013, 02:54 PM
  #187
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Like say: Gionta + 4th for Clutterbuck, Stoner, 3rd

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Old
05-16-2013, 02:54 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
One of the keys to building a team is good asset management.

A couple of pages ago posters were talking about Domenic Moore, who signed with Florida as a FA and then we paid Florida a 2nd round pick for him a couple of months later. This type of bad asset management got Gauthier fired because when a few of the regulars went down the cupboard was empty.

If we trade Bourque for a 2nd a decent prospect and sign AK, maybe don't improve our team in the here and now but our future becomes brighter and that is good asset management.

We probably won't get AK but the long-term effect of what you believe is that we'll keep firing coaches and GM's until "they" get it. Good asset management makes for smart , successful coaches and bad asset management makes for "see you later" losers.
That 2nd round pick wouldn't have saved Gauthier, who by the way signed Gill and a few months later that year traded him for a 2nd and a prospect. So he must be even better at asset management. Also it's not just about amassing assets. Moore was important in that playoff run. Price himself said he matured a lot sitting on the bench watching Halak in that run. That run also turned into us getting Eller. It no doubt also helped PK.

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Old
05-16-2013, 02:56 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by NickW View Post
What about throwing a pick or two at Minnesota to get Clutterbuck? From what I've read Minnesota fans weren't too happy with him this year, and he'd look great on the 3rd/4th line.
In that case just go after Cooke or Torres as UFA's.

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Old
05-16-2013, 02:57 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
That 2nd round pick wouldn't have saved Gauthier, who by the way signed Gill and a few months later that year traded him for a 2nd and a prospect. So he must be even better at asset management. Also it's not just about amassing assets. Moore was important in that playoff run. Price himself said he matured a lot sitting on the bench watching Halak in that run. That run also turned into us getting Eller. It no doubt also helped PK.
Gill was signed in July 2009. Traded in 2012.
Moore came here in February 2010.

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05-16-2013, 02:59 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Holy **** I totally forgot we traded a 2nd rounder for Moore. Yeah, definitely bad asset management, but what did you expect out of PG?

If we traded Bourque for a 2nd rounder, I would be like through the roof happy and laugh at the team that took him (not really, cuz I think Bourque, if consistent, could be lethal). But still, building through the draft is key, and having high draft picks will definitely help, especially in this year's draft.



My question to you is, say they did want both right, and they were to give up their 34th and 36th pick for the 26th pick. Now is the talent difference from 26th to 34th and 36th so vast that having 3 prospects drafted in the first 35ish picks is worse than have 2 draft picks in the first 25ish picks?

If that's the case in this draft then I say do it, but the problem is the draft is always a crapshoot for the most part as you go down further into the draft. The more picks you have in higher rounds, the better odds you have at picking a future stud/good player for your team. Now the odds of having two first rounders and having only 1 being a great player is high. Having both first rounders being great players is a lot lower. However having 2/3 of our first 3 picks (25, 34, 36) being great players is, IMO, a lot higher than having both 1st rounders being great players.

I mean I could be talking out of my ass, but looking at past drafts (take 2003 as an example, a very strong draft class) and this seems to be the case...
You're certainly not talking out of your ass but a team will trade to move up a few spots only because they got high expectations and a need for a certain prospect based on their scouting reports. You will often have one scout or the head scout pushing for it.

A team that wouldn't do it is one that needs lots of good prospects. Montreal having six of them in the first three rounds and a very good pool of prospects has the luxury to make such a move.

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05-16-2013, 03:04 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Mover View Post
Gill was signed in July 2009. Traded in 2012.
Moore came here in February 2010.
He was re-signed on the year he got traded.

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Old
05-16-2013, 03:06 PM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
That 2nd round pick wouldn't have saved Gauthier, who by the way signed Gill and a few months later that year traded him for a 2nd and a prospect. So he must be even better at asset management. Also it's not just about amassing assets. Moore was important in that playoff run. Price himself said he matured a lot sitting on the bench watching Halak in that run. That run also turned into us getting Eller. It no doubt also helped PK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mover View Post
Gill was signed in July 2009. Traded in 2012.
Moore came here in February 2010.
LOL i was about to say...Gill was there in 2010 with Subby-Dooby-Doo. The fact that he traded Gill to NSH for Boom Boom's grandson, Slaney, and their 2nd rounder in 2012 makes me happy in the few things he did. I wish Cammy would have been mature and just stuck around that year and we would have had a much greater scoring threat in Cammalleri over Bourque this year, although Bourque plays a more physical game than Cammy. Also after doing some research, PG came in about 4 days or so before the Habs acquired Moore, so I feel like that could have been a BG trade . BG's trade history on the Habs is absolutely horrendous. Good god .

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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
In that case just go after Cooke or Torres as UFA's.
Seriously, what are people thinking on this board. Any of those players (Clutterbuck, Cooke, Torres) are not the answer.

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Old
05-16-2013, 03:09 PM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian70 View Post
You're certainly not talking out of your ass but a team will trade to move up a few spots only because they got high expectations and a need for a certain prospect based on their scouting reports. You will often have one scout or the head scout pushing for it.

A team that wouldn't do it is one that needs lots of good prospects. Montreal having six of them in the first three rounds and a very good pool of prospects has the luxury to make such a move.
Thank you .

But yeah considering our prospect pool and the amount of picks we have, if the scouting staff wanted 2 guys in the late first round, I would consider moving our 34th and 36th picks (or our 34th and 56th pick?) to get another pick at 26th, 27th, 28th...

We'll see what Timmins, Bergy and Co. decide...when's the draft again??? And it's in NJ right?

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05-16-2013, 03:15 PM
  #195
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That's out of line. I was not going to post. I was just reading. But. That is out of line. Don't do that.
I couldn't edit my post and instead quoted myself and posted again and elaborated on my thoughts. If you find my second post equally offensive you're welcome to place me on your ignore list because I stand by it.

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05-16-2013, 03:22 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Seriously, what are people thinking on this board. Any of those players (Clutterbuck, Cooke, Torres) are not the answer.
It depends on the question.

I think a guy like that would be nice to add to the mix on the 3rd line. In the playoffs those are nice guys to have.

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05-16-2013, 03:25 PM
  #197
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Not sure why people are talking about AK. He's clearly not the type of player Bergevin is looking for.

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Old
05-16-2013, 03:29 PM
  #198
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Like say: Gionta + 4th for Clutterbuck, Stoner, 3rd
I'm sure the Wild would laugh at that big time!!!

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05-16-2013, 03:33 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Thank you .

But yeah considering our prospect pool and the amount of picks we have, if the scouting staff wanted 2 guys in the late first round, I would consider moving our 34th and 36th picks (or our 34th and 56th pick?) to get another pick at 26th, 27th, 28th...

We'll see what Timmins, Bergy and Co. decide...when's the draft again??? And it's in NJ right?
All seven rounds on Sunday June 30 in New Jersey.

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05-16-2013, 03:40 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I'm sure the Wild would laugh at that big time!!!
Not just Wild fans, I laugh at that as well.

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