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Old
05-16-2013, 04:29 PM
  #226
arsmaster
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Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
I wouldn't put St. Louis in the same place as any of those teams including Vancouver. They do not have top line talent IMO. There leading scorer last year was 74th in scoring. This year Stewart was the leading scorer and was a reasonable 35th, but Backes their second leading scorer was 101st. Guys like Backes, Oshie and Steen are fine players but you really want them cast into the second line type of role.

And given the potential budget crunch the Blues will have they may find themselves losing Stewart and/or Shattenkirk. The Bouwmeester acquisition really hurts them if they maintain an internal budget well below the cap like they have.

I can only imagine if Backes and Oshie formed the major part of the canucks core what people would be saying about Backes' 7 points in 15 games and Oshie's 5 points in 15 the past two playoff years..... Yet, the Blues shouldn't expect much more production from those types of guys (especially when having to go against a teams best defensive units). The issue with them is opposite IMO to that of the canucks. The canucks lack quality playoff depth up front while the Blues lack quality talent up front right now.

Btw I didn't cherry pick Backes and Oshie:

Steen: 6 pts in 15 games
Perron: 7 pts in 15 games
Stewart: 3pts in 13 games
Pietrangelo: 7pts in 15 games.....that one is good for D-man.
Berglund: 9pts in 15 games....not bad actually but it would get him crucified as a canuck.
Backes and Oshie are like Kesler and Burrows here. St Louis' problem is they don't have the Sedin's or two comparable top line talents.

Their entire roster is secondary scoring.

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05-16-2013, 04:31 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
While Pietrangelo is a wonderful talent, this year it was Shattenkirk that was easily the best D-man on the Blues. At least from what I saw. Not sure what the stats would say. Either way Pietrangelo can't quite yet be mentioned in the same breath as a Chara (honestly who can now that Lidstrom is retired...I think Chara is far and away the best overall D-man in the league).
I feel like I need one of these after every post:

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05-16-2013, 04:34 PM
  #228
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Fowler is better than Edler? News to me.

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Old
05-16-2013, 04:37 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Backes and Oshie are like Kesler and Burrows here. St Louis' problem is they don't have the Sedin's or two comparable top line talents.

Their entire roster is secondary scoring.
Yep. I just needed multiple paragraphs to say it instead of summing things up eloquently in a couple of sentences

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05-16-2013, 04:43 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
Yep. I just needed multiple paragraphs to say it instead of summing things up eloquently in a couple of sentences
I still like the way they are constructed. I'd still absolutely love a chance to see what Kesler and Backes could do together.

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05-16-2013, 05:04 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I still like the way they are constructed. I'd still absolutely love a chance to see what Kesler and Backes could do together.
I think they were constructed well. They started with a good blueline, added some good goaltending (they thought it would be Halak more than Ellito but whatever), have size and added the right coach and system to mitigate the lack of scoring they have. What I think happened is that when they started this build they expected Berglund, Backes and Oshie to develop into those top line talents. It, thus far, has not happened.

Now Oshie will be 27 next season and Backes is 29 so for them I think what we see is what we get. Berglund and Perron still has some time at only 25 and 24 to start the next season. Be interesting to see what Tarasenko, Schwartz and perhaps Rattie bring to the table. But they need some of these guys to become that true top line or they will likely always flounder in the playoffs.


Last edited by tantalum: 05-16-2013 at 05:09 PM.
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Old
05-16-2013, 06:16 PM
  #232
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Daniel-Henrik-Kassian
Burrows-Kesler-Iginla/Morrow/Horton
Higgins-Gordon-Hansen
Simmonds-Lapierre-Cooke
Weiss

Garrison/Tanev
Hamhuis/Bieksa
Elder/Corrado

Schneider
Nabokov

Trade Luongo for Simmonds

Sign some ufas
Dump/trade Ballard and Booth

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Old
05-16-2013, 06:39 PM
  #233
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Daniel Sedin - Henrik Sedin - Alexandre Burrows
Valtteri Filppula - Ryan Kesler - Teddy Purcell
Chris Higgins - Peter Regin - Jannik Hansen
Scottie Upshall - Brendan Gaunce - Zack Kassian
Dale Weise

Alexander Edler - Toni Lydman
Dan Hamhuis - Frank Corrado
Jason Garrison - Chris Tanev
Andrew Alberts

Cory Schneider
Eddie Lack

Deal Booth, Ballard, Luongo for whatever futures you can get. At least of them should return something, buyout the rest.
Trade Bieksa to TBL for Purcell.
Sign Lydman (no NTC!!) and promote Corrado, keep AA around for insurance.
Sign Filppula
Sign Regin and amnestied Upshall for cheap
Start with Gaunce with an experienced core that has a lot of competition and pieces that can be traded in the middle of the season if they fall out with the new coach / lose their role.

Bolded names to illustrate the volume of change in the roster from last year.

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Old
05-16-2013, 07:34 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkulad View Post
Daniel Sedin - Henrik Sedin - Alexandre Burrows
Valtteri Filppula - Ryan Kesler - Teddy Purcell
Chris Higgins - Peter Regin - Jannik Hansen
Scottie Upshall - Brendan Gaunce - Zack Kassian
Dale Weise

Alexander Edler - Toni Lydman
Dan Hamhuis - Frank Corrado
Jason Garrison - Chris Tanev
Andrew Alberts

Cory Schneider
Eddie Lack

Deal Booth, Ballard, Luongo for whatever futures you can get. At least of them should return something, buyout the rest.
Trade Bieksa to TBL for Purcell.
Sign Lydman (no NTC!!) and promote Corrado, keep AA around for insurance.
Sign Filppula
Sign Regin and amnestied Upshall for cheap
Start with Gaunce with an experienced core that has a lot of competition and pieces that can be traded in the middle of the season if they fall out with the new coach / lose their role.

Bolded names to illustrate the volume of change in the roster from last year.
Im sure we can get more than Purcell for Bieksa.... Flippula aint joining Canucks either, he wants 4.5-5M at least.

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Old
05-16-2013, 07:37 PM
  #235
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If you guys aren't going to put Schroeder in your lineups then at least trade him. Losing him on waivers would be ridiculously stupid.

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Old
05-16-2013, 07:40 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
But they have Pietrangelo and that's all that matters when evaluating a core of a team.

TOUGH #1D, BRO!
all those intangibles

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Old
05-16-2013, 08:31 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkulad View Post
Daniel Sedin - Henrik Sedin - Alexandre Burrows
Valtteri Filppula - Ryan Kesler - Teddy Purcell
Chris Higgins - Peter Regin - Jannik Hansen
Scottie Upshall - Brendan Gaunce - Zack Kassian
Dale Weise

Alexander Edler - Toni Lydman
Dan Hamhuis - Frank Corrado
Jason Garrison - Chris Tanev
Andrew Alberts

Cory Schneider
Eddie Lack

Deal Booth, Ballard, Luongo for whatever futures you can get. At least of them should return something, buyout the rest.
Trade Bieksa to TBL for Purcell.
Sign Lydman (no NTC!!) and promote Corrado, keep AA around for insurance.
Sign Filppula
Sign Regin and amnestied Upshall for cheap
Start with Gaunce with an experienced core that has a lot of competition and pieces that can be traded in the middle of the season if they fall out with the new coach / lose their role.

Bolded names to illustrate the volume of change in the roster from last year.
The idea of signing someone like Upshall after an 'amnesty buyout' by Florida is somewhat enticing. I'd be curious to see what sort of dollar figure a new deal for Upshall would land with. He's a respectable gritty 3rd liner when healthy, but he hasn't been healthy all that often. So i think you're still looking at a decent salary.

And if he's going to cost a decent amount still, ie $1.5M+ which seems very likely...he's essentially a less durable Higgins-type. Which isn't a bad thing...but i think we really do need more 'high end' players, more so than more '3rd liner' types (on the wing at least).

If Upshall does end up Amnesty'd...Edmonton just seems like too good of a fit to not happen. But who knows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
If you guys aren't going to put Schroeder in your lineups then at least trade him. Losing him on waivers would be ridiculously stupid.
The Schroeder situation is such a tricky one. Do we stick him on the roster as #3C just because we have no where else to put him, and can't keep him in the minors? I just don't see how Schroeder as the full time #3C really 'improves' this team. Nor do i see him as the 'solution' there long-term.

Which leads me to the idea of moving him...but for what? Despite being held in relatively high esteem by many here, and partially as a result of his draft status...in a standalone deal, i just don't see Schroeder having much of any value to teams around the league. He's a tiny center who doesn't seem able to play wing very effectively, hasn't been overwhelmingly productive in the AHL or NHL, spent the year battling (unfairly or not) with Andrew Ebbett for a roster spot, and already has some 'injury concerns' around him with his shoulder issue this year...which is not a good sign for a small player where 'durability' is going to be a concern. And of course...the waiver issue means you're developing him on an NHL roster, for better or worse, which may further turn teams off.

As part of a package deal he may have some value as a guy who can take over a roster spot on a weaker 'rebuilding' type team in a 'filler' role and has at least a bit of upside if he does work out. But he's not a true 'bluechip prospect' that's going to be the centerpiece of a deal i don't think. So moving him for a decent return won't be easy if that's the aim.

I can't help but get the sense we might see Gillis break out the old 'Used Car Salesman' routine again...trying to 'showcase' Schroeder up to the trade deadline next year, to flip him for something else. But it's hard to see Schroeder building up the kind of 'momentum' in stock that say...Hodgson did with his season prior to being traded.

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Old
05-17-2013, 12:34 AM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkulad View Post
Daniel Sedin - Henrik Sedin - Alexandre Burrows
Valtteri Filppula - Ryan Kesler - Teddy Purcell
Chris Higgins - Peter Regin - Jannik Hansen
Scottie Upshall - Brendan Gaunce - Zack Kassian
Dale Weise

Alexander Edler - Toni Lydman
Dan Hamhuis - Frank Corrado
Jason Garrison - Chris Tanev
Andrew Alberts

Cory Schneider
Eddie Lack

Deal Booth, Ballard, Luongo for whatever futures you can get. At least of them should return something, buyout the rest.
Trade Bieksa to TBL for Purcell.
Sign Lydman (no NTC!!) and promote Corrado, keep AA around for insurance.
Sign Filppula
Sign Regin and amnestied Upshall for cheap
Start with Gaunce with an experienced core that has a lot of competition and pieces that can be traded in the middle of the season if they fall out with the new coach / lose their role.

Bolded names to illustrate the volume of change in the roster from last year.
I like this team, except for the Peter Regin part. He is soft as pudding, and not the kind of player we want to add with the division we're going into.

I also like the idea of Gaunce at C, but if it doesn't pan out, we would be extremely weak up the middle in your scenario. We need someone more reliable in the 3C spot in case Gaunce were to falter.

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05-17-2013, 12:42 AM
  #239
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why do i get the feeling that gillis will shake up the team by trading 2 players off the current roster.. edler? and someone else. since gillis says he wants young guys to contribute. maybe at the draft?

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Old
05-17-2013, 01:04 AM
  #240
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I just finished watching the end of the Kings/Sharks games and when you see how both those teams create scoring chances in front of the other teams crease you realize why what our team is missing. Our team is all outside on the perimeter or shots from the point. We're like a jump shooting basketball team with no inside scoring.

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Old
05-17-2013, 02:23 AM
  #241
turkulad
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Originally Posted by SonicY View Post
I like this team, except for the Peter Regin part. He is soft as pudding, and not the kind of player we want to add with the division we're going into.

I also like the idea of Gaunce at C, but if it doesn't pan out, we would be extremely weak up the middle in your scenario. We need someone more reliable in the 3C spot in case Gaunce were to falter.
I'm thinking about Peter Regin because he apparently he did everything wrong this year in Ottawa and is one of those change of scenery -guys we could sign for cheap. Then again Regin and Gaunce then together as our C depth is a bit scary, you are right about that. So maybe if we tweak the roster accordingly, and according to other comments. I'd think if Bieksa would be fitting to go to Tampa, we could get one of Tampa's prospect guy added to the deal (like a Brown who didn't break out, yet) but I ain't too educated on their guys' progress so I ain't slotting them in.

We'd go for a lesser prize in MacArthur that'll give you the cap possibility to sign Boyd Gordon, who probably won't be retained now that Klinkhammer was signed for the Yotes, and whose salary that is higher than Lappy's might be justified by the fact we'd be a lot more comfortable putting him on the 3rd.. Another idea from the Phoenix board would be sending Ballard there with a deal that would make us take half of his salary and we'd get their propect Goncharov. I'd much rather bargain and trade him for Michael Stone while we'd retain a million. Our defense becomes a lot younger this way and we get some assets back for him.

Also, having watched the World Champs I'd think going for Petri Kontiola with this winger depth we have would be a great opportunity to have, and this isn't only the Finn in me talking. Then Gaunce would also fall off the playing roster and we wouldn't have to rely on him at all. IF he'd be able to go to the AHL he'd be the first call-up.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
MacArthur - Kesler - Purcell
Higgins - Gordon/Kontiola - Hansen
Upshall - Kontiola/Gordon - Kassian
Gaunce - Weise

Edler - Lydman
Hamhuis - Stone
Garrison - Tanev
Corrado

Schneider
Lack


Last edited by turkulad: 05-17-2013 at 04:50 AM.
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Old
05-17-2013, 02:24 AM
  #242
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Kesler for Shattenkirk?

Hamhuis Shattenkirk
Garrison Tanev
(Alberts?) Corrado

We can trade Edler and Bieksa for forward help

Blues seem to be looking for a center like Kesler and we could use a top pairing righty who can move the puck, he's young 24 years old.

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Old
05-17-2013, 03:04 AM
  #243
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Wonder what is up Regin if MacLean can't get him to work out. MacLean seems to be able to turn everything else they have into gold.

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05-17-2013, 03:09 AM
  #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaMale View Post
I just finished watching the end of the Kings/Sharks games and when you see how both those teams create scoring chances in front of the other teams crease you realize why what our team is missing. Our team is all outside on the perimeter or shots from the point. We're like a jump shooting basketball team with no inside scoring.
I've also loved the way some teams (chicago and ottawa) really like to hound the puck carriers: mid sized, fast, hard working wingers - hmmm just what have lots of. Not even going into breakaways, east west puck movement - nope grind in the corners with no net presence.

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Old
05-17-2013, 03:12 AM
  #245
Derp Kassian
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I like the idea of Regin, but in more of the Andrew Ebbett role, rather than on the actual roster.

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05-17-2013, 03:33 AM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkulad View Post
Daniel Sedin - Henrik Sedin - Alexandre Burrows
Valtteri Filppula - Ryan Kesler - Teddy Purcell
Chris Higgins - Peter Regin - Jannik Hansen
Scottie Upshall - Brendan Gaunce - Zack Kassian
Dale Weise

Alexander Edler - Toni Lydman
Dan Hamhuis - Frank Corrado
Jason Garrison - Chris Tanev
Andrew Alberts

Cory Schneider
Eddie Lack

Deal Booth, Ballard, Luongo for whatever futures you can get. At least of them should return something, buyout the rest.
Trade Bieksa to TBL for Purcell.
Sign Lydman (no NTC!!) and promote Corrado, keep AA around for insurance.
Sign Filppula
Sign Regin and amnestied Upshall for cheap
Start with Gaunce with an experienced core that has a lot of competition and pieces that can be traded in the middle of the season if they fall out with the new coach / lose their role.

Bolded names to illustrate the volume of change in the roster from last year.
Upshall's salary is a joke, I think he makes $3.5M a season IIRC.

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05-17-2013, 03:34 AM
  #247
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Oh God, please let's not have an "Andrew Ebbett role" keystone moving forward.

Let's just all forget about him, please. It's the only thing I ask this year.

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05-17-2013, 04:04 AM
  #248
turkulad
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Originally Posted by Royal Canuck View Post
Upshall's salary is a joke, I think he makes $3.5M a season IIRC.
Yeah the idea was getting Upshall after he was amnestied by Florida, and I think there is no doubt that they wouldn't do it.

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05-17-2013, 04:19 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
The Schroeder situation is such a tricky one. Do we stick him on the roster as #3C just because we have no where else to put him, and can't keep him in the minors? I just don't see how Schroeder as the full time #3C really 'improves' this team. Nor do i see him as the 'solution' there long-term.

As part of a package deal he may have some value as a guy who can take over a roster spot on a weaker 'rebuilding' type team in a 'filler' role and has at least a bit of upside if he does work out. But he's not a true 'bluechip prospect' that's going to be the centerpiece of a deal i don't think. So moving him for a decent return won't be easy if that's the aim.
He's going to be packaged with Edler to an Eastern Conference team for a centre

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Old
05-17-2013, 04:32 AM
  #250
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You guys ready for some ****? In this post, Gillis has downed a 40 of Crown each day in succession from June 28th-July 5th. For some reason, a bunch of other teams' GMs also have. Get ready, time to put some big boy pants and go to Dreamworld.

June 28-29:
Holy ****. Compliance buy-out on David Booth.
Good-bye Keith Ballard, you have been traded for picks.
TRADE: Canucks trade Alex Edler + Cory Schneider to Buffalo for Tyler Myers, Tyler Ennis + (for some reason, I'm assuming Regier is drunk at the helm) Drew Stafford.
Recall: Eddie Lack now in net as back-up. Roberto Luongo is drunk and decides to stay in Vancouver and moves to Commercial.

June 30:
Things are getting interesting.
TRADE: Canucks trade Kevin Bieksa + Jordan Schroeder + their own 1st round pick to Phoenix for Martin Hanzal + Brandon Gormley. We can only assume Maloney was puking in a pool much like when a certain Breaking Bad character also had one too many tequilas. Thanks Heisenberg.

July 1:
Gillis is sobering up. Oh god what did I do? Actually, not too bad. Thanks, Laurence.

July 5:
Basically Boyd Gordon + Dan Cleary get drunk and decide to pull a Lebron/Bosh and take their talents to Wreck Beach and get more drunk and play for Vancouver*.

*not drunk

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2013-14 drunk pipe nightmare...Buffcouver Coyonucks!

FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
Tyler Ennis ($2.813m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Drew Stafford ($4.000m)
Danny Cleary ($1.700m) / Martin Hanzal ($3.100m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Boyd Gordon ($1.400m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Tyler Myers ($5.500m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Chris Tanev ($1.750m)
Brandon Gormley ($1.315m) / Frank Corrado ($0.599m)
Andrew Alberts ($0.900m) /
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)

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