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2013-14 Flyers Overhaul

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Old
05-09-2013, 04:13 PM
  #826
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Originally Posted by OzFlyer View Post
No thanks to Booth. He only played about two games this year due to various injuries and isn't the same player since the Richards hit.
Agreed on this. His career is night and day before and after that hit.

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05-09-2013, 05:13 PM
  #827
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No way we sign any FA fwd this year worth more than 3 mill. Def think we trade for a dman/sign one of the old guys to a two year deal

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05-09-2013, 05:14 PM
  #828
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I'd like to see both Schenn and Laughton converted. A Schenn-Couturier-Laughton line in the future would be pretty beast. Good mix of skill, defense, and physicality. But for now I'd say have Schenn and Couts together with whoever and let Laughton play with some more experienced guys maybe.
Hopefully they'll sign Gags for 2.5 or so after taking care of the cap situation. I'm sure they wouldn't mind bringing him back, why give up a pick then let him walk when he obviously wants to be here? He played pretty well too.

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05-09-2013, 05:26 PM
  #829
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No way we sign any FA fwd this year worth more than 3 mill. Def think we trade for a dman/sign one of the old guys to a two year deal
If Iginla hits the open market because Pitts really doesn't have all that much to re-sign him, there is literally no doubt the Flyers will be front runners to get him. Not saying they will land him, but they will be extremely interested. Shoot, the Flyers even checked in with Calgary on him this season when they were struggling at rock bottom. They have always liked him and rightfully so, he plays the game the Flyers love.

They always chase the big fish, it's just a matter if they hook em or not.

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05-09-2013, 05:38 PM
  #830
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If Iginla hits the open market because Pitts really doesn't have all that much to re-sign him, there is literally no doubt the Flyers will be front runners to get him. Not saying they will land him, but they will be extremely interested. Shoot, the Flyers even checked in with Calgary on him this season when they were struggling at rock bottom. They have always liked him and rightfully so, he plays the game the Flyers love.

They always chase the big fish, it's just a matter if they hook em or not.
Would rather they sign Zubrus. He'll be cheaper and provide a lot of good two-way play, size, and the ability to win board battles.

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05-09-2013, 05:44 PM
  #831
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Would rather they sign Zubrus. He'll be cheaper and provide a lot of good two-way play, size, and the ability to win board battles.
If I had the choice between Iggy at 6-6.5 million or Zubrus at 3.5-4.2 million, I take Iggy every day of the week. Iggy is one year older and will pot 30+ goals while giving you defense and also winning board battles. Iggy isn't known for his defense like Zubrus is, but he isn't a liability out there.

I think Iggy gets a team to throw a 4 year deal at him in the offseason. Maybe the last year can bring his cap hit down somewhat. I hope we would be a little hesitant to give him 4 years because of his style of play, but he hasn't broke down yet. It all matters if our management thinks he can sustain it for another 4 years, which I can see them thinking.

Basically the only reason Zubrus would be a better option is because he is cheaper, which is understandable with our cap situation. Also he can play the PK.

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05-09-2013, 05:45 PM
  #832
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Would rather they sign Zubrus. He'll be cheaper and provide a lot of good two-way play, size, and the ability to win board battles.
If we could get Iginla for a short term (1-3 years) it would definitely be something to look at. Him along with Giroux and Voracek would be a pretty good line. That's two potential 25-30 goal scorers playing alongside Giroux. It would also give you some flexibility to possibly move a winger like Read or Hartnell for some blueline help.


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05-09-2013, 06:04 PM
  #833
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Giving Iginla a multiyear deal at more than $6m would really cause cap problems, and he'll be 36 in two months. Pittsburgh have more space so why would he come here?

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05-09-2013, 06:13 PM
  #834
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I'd be willing to give him a 2 year deal if Briere is bought out and one of Hartnell, Coburn, and Meszaros is gone. Even if he doesn't put up great numbers he'll compete hard and bring leadership. I think he'd possibly do better here than Pittsburgh, G is the #1 passing center Calgary was never able to get.

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05-09-2013, 09:02 PM
  #835
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I'd be willing to give him a 2 year deal if Briere is bought out and one of Hartnell, Coburn, and Meszaros is gone. Even if he doesn't put up great numbers he'll compete hard and bring leadership. I think he'd possibly do better here than Pittsburgh, G is the #1 passing center Calgary was never able to get.
i don't understand why they have to loose hartnell or coburn.

i don't mean to single you out. I see so many people wanting to trade coburn for a dman.

Coburn is a solid #2/#3 dman that fustrates because he has the ability to be great but isn't consistent, i get it but how does trading him for another #2/#3 dman that fustrates another team like Edler. That seems like a lateral move. They to add a dman like Edler to the existing d corp.

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05-15-2013, 01:16 AM
  #836
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If these playoffs are a fair representation, I wouldn't mind seeing Hannan in the Flyers uniform, especially with that nice cap hit he currently has.

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05-15-2013, 01:51 AM
  #837
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Just remember if any of voracek, Schenn, coots or Simmonds is traded add Richards or carter to the trade cause that's what we truly lost to get said player.

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05-15-2013, 06:20 AM
  #838
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Moving Coburn is a dumb idea when the long term health of Grossmann and Mezaros is in question.
The fact that Coburn has been in the league now for 8 seasons and can't put together a single consistent year is more than enough reason why he should be moved. 8 years and he still struggles from one game to the next. People still see "potential" in Coburn, but he's a veteran now. He can't lead a defense pairing, he handles the puck like it's a grenade, and he consistently makes bad decisions. I'll take my chances with Grossmann and Meszaros.

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05-15-2013, 06:43 AM
  #839
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What do you expect to get for Coburn?

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05-15-2013, 06:52 AM
  #840
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What do you expect to get for Coburn?
I'm perfectly content with a draft pick and salary cap relief. The thing is, some team is going to be enticed by Coburn. For all of his struggles, there's a very interesting package of physical skills that not many defensemen have. There'll be some club out there that will think that with their coach and system, Coburn will flourish. The possibility of fleecing a club for Coburn certainly exists.

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05-15-2013, 06:56 AM
  #841
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but putting our hopes on the health of Grossmann and Mez is foolish, more so Mez

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05-15-2013, 07:43 AM
  #842
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but putting our hopes on the health of Grossmann and Mez is foolish, more so Mez
I get the concern with Grossmann and his concussions. Meszaros's injuries have been nothing more than freak injuries. My only concern with Meszaros are his shoulders, which have both been surgically repaired now. With that being said, shoulder surgery isn't like it was years ago, where they tore the whole shoulder apart. I think an early off season for Meszaros to rest a bit is exactly what he needs.

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05-15-2013, 08:56 AM
  #843
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Mesz had a pretty nice iron man record before this nasty string of injuries started.
His shoulders are a concern but so are Grossmann's knees or Timonen's back - pretty much standard wear down injuries.

I'm more worried about Grossmann's series of concussions to be honest. Those type of injuries can't be fixed via surgery and directly affect the player as a whole.

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05-15-2013, 11:43 PM
  #844
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Iginla isn't worth 4 million let alone 6-6.5 million. Has anybody watched the Pens this playoffs? I have not been impressed with Iginla at all. His skating has declined a lot. I don't see him burying anybody or doing anything remotely resembling his "power forward" legend status. He still has good hands and a good shot - but he cannot get there anymore.

4 years at 6 million is absolutely stupid. The Penguins won't be bringing him back - neither would I and I have always been a big fan of his.

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05-16-2013, 06:20 AM
  #845
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Iginla isn't worth 4 million let alone 6-6.5 million. Has anybody watched the Pens this playoffs? I have not been impressed with Iginla at all. His skating has declined a lot. I don't see him burying anybody or doing anything remotely resembling his "power forward" legend status. He still has good hands and a good shot - but he cannot get there anymore.

4 years at 6 million is absolutely stupid. The Penguins won't be bringing him back - neither would I and I have always been a big fan of his.
Agreed. Let some other franchise overpay for Iginla's services.

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05-16-2013, 11:20 AM
  #846
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The fact that Coburn has been in the league now for 8 seasons and can't put together a single consistent year is more than enough reason why he should be moved. 8 years and he still struggles from one game to the next. People still see "potential" in Coburn, but he's a veteran now. He can't lead a defense pairing, he handles the puck like it's a grenade, and he consistently makes bad decisions. I'll take my chances with Grossmann and Meszaros.
The league full of players that don't play at the same level of consistent play every game. That's what seperates the Suters, Crosbys, etc from the average player.

It's not like Coburn is inconsistent going for a bad game to a great game. He is good most nights then he'll have a few great games then just like most players he'll have a bad game. I think you greatly exagerate when you say he struggles from one game to the next.

I am not waiting for him to reach his potential. He is what he is at this point. A 6'5" physical dman that is fast and can use his size to cover his and his partners mistakes. He will likely never reach the offensive output he was projected to have but he can play 25 min/gm and shut down the opponent's top line and come playoff time he takes his game to another level.

What's wrong with that from a guy making less then $5MM?

Coburn is the type of dman every team looks to add at the deadline. Why would you move him when you have noone to fill his void?

I like Grossman but he is slow and can be exposed in a long series if he is getting top 4 minutes. Mez is a UFA after this season and while a like Schenn he does not have the same set of tools as Coburn.

Why not just add to Coburn, Schenn, and Grossman long term with Kimmo and Mez replacements from an area of strength like Center?

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05-16-2013, 12:00 PM
  #847
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The fact that Coburn has been in the league now for 8 seasons and can't put together a single consistent year is more than enough reason why he should be moved. 8 years and he still struggles from one game to the next. People still see "potential" in Coburn, but he's a veteran now. He can't lead a defense pairing, he handles the puck like it's a grenade, and he consistently makes bad decisions. I'll take my chances with Grossmann and Meszaros.
It seems like whenever one of us posts about Coburn, the other says "I agree." So...I agree.

At this point we're building for the future, and I highly doubt Coburn is going to be a major part of any championship runs. We've seen enough from him to know what kind of player he is, and he's replaceable in general. If value can be had for him which helps gear the team for the future I have no problem shipping him out.

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05-16-2013, 03:40 PM
  #848
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
It seems like whenever one of us posts about Coburn, the other says "I agree." So...I agree.

At this point we're building for the future, and I highly doubt Coburn is going to be a major part of any championship runs. We've seen enough from him to know what kind of player he is, and he's replaceable in general. If value can be had for him which helps gear the team for the future I have no problem shipping him out.
first, for this team the future is always now but for arguements sake let's say they are building for the future. So, what are we talking 3-4 years? Why wouldn't Coburn be a part of a part of any championship run?

Coburn is 28-29 y/o? So, in 3-4 years he is going to be 31-33 y/o. The core of this team is made up of players in or hitting their prime so why trade a young player in a position of need for a pick or prospect in that same position?

It is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time. Add prospects while contending now with young players in their prime.

You'll never win a cup if you are trading solid 28-29 y/o for picks and prospects. You would be in constant rebuilding mode which is fun for HF site but not realistic.

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05-16-2013, 03:47 PM
  #849
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first, for this team the future is always now but for arguements sake let's say they are building for the future. So, what are we talking 3-4 years? Why wouldn't Coburn be a part of a part of any championship run?

Coburn is 28-29 y/o? So, in 3-4 years he is going to be 31-33 y/o. The core of this team is made up of players in or hitting their prime so why trade a young player in a position of need for a pick or prospect in that same position?

It is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time. Add prospects while contending now with young players in their prime.

You'll never win a cup if you are trading solid 28-29 y/o for picks and prospects. You would be in constant rebuilding mode which is fun for HF site but not realistic.
Coburn doesn't strike me as a guy like Timonen who is going to play at a high level into his 30s. Hell, he struggles to consistently play at a high level now. In his case I'd rather trade him while his value is still fairly high. If we can't address a need or use a trade around him to improve, I don't mind holding onto him. But, as I said, if he's traded I don't think I'd feel much regret over it, unless it's an awful return.

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05-16-2013, 04:34 PM
  #850
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The league full of players that don't play at the same level of consistent play every game. That's what seperates the Suters, Crosbys, etc from the average player.

It's not like Coburn is inconsistent going for a bad game to a great game. He is good most nights then he'll have a few great games then just like most players he'll have a bad game. I think you greatly exagerate when you say he struggles from one game to the next.

I am not waiting for him to reach his potential. He is what he is at this point. A 6'5" physical dman that is fast and can use his size to cover his and his partners mistakes. He will likely never reach the offensive output he was projected to have but he can play 25 min/gm and shut down the opponent's top line and come playoff time he takes his game to another level.

What's wrong with that from a guy making less then $5MM?

Coburn is the type of dman every team looks to add at the deadline. Why would you move him when you have noone to fill his void?

I like Grossman but he is slow and can be exposed in a long series if he is getting top 4 minutes. Mez is a UFA after this season and while a like Schenn he does not have the same set of tools as Coburn.

Why not just add to Coburn, Schenn, and Grossman long term with Kimmo and Mez replacements from an area of strength like Center?
My issue with Coburn is that he's the most inconsistent player in the league, game in and game out. I get it that most people are enamored with the skill set he brings to the table. He's a 6'5 defenseman who can skate like the wind and play good and mean.....when he wants to.

If you take a look at him over a regular season, you see a guy who dominates games for about a 20 game stretch and that's usually down the stretch. During the other 60 games, you talk about a guy who plays OK for about 25 to 30 of those games and then plays incredibly poor for about 30 games.

It happens every year with him. Just when you think he's about to round a corner and be that consistent defenseman night in and night out, he disappoints. That's my problem with Coburn - he has the skill set to dominate, but he can't put it together consistently. And contrary to what some may think, he's being paid $4.5 million bucks a year to be a consistently good defenseman, which he is not. That's why I want him gone.

Yeah, he might be a good team guy and yes, he ramps it up come playoff time. However, the Flyers needed him to step up in a HUGE way this year and he tanked. But if you look back on his career, that's what's consistent about him. When the Flyers need him, he's nowhere to be found until playoff time. There's no sense of urgency or desperation in his game. He's quite content to be mediocre and let his teammates do most of the heavy lifting.

At this point, he is not worth the $4.5 million and limited trade clause he's been given. If you look back throughout his career, look at all the significant defenders he's been partnered with to learn the game. Not one of them has worn off him. They've done nothing but carry his dead weight.

I hate Coburn. I hate everything there is about him and I hate how people continue to make excuses for him to keep him around. I've seen all the posts of "eventually he'll put it together" or "he's a beast come playoff time". Great, but in order to get to the playoffs, you also need to play during the regular season, which is something no one can consistently get him to do.

He needs to be someone else's problem now, not the Flyers problem. Let some other team be "enamored" with his physical skill set. I'm done with the clown. He does nothing but disappoint every year - and that's something you can guarantee that he'll do consistently.

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