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05-16-2013, 02:53 PM
  #351
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
He certainly hasn't loaded it with playoff character. The talent is certainly there: Ovi, Backstrom, Green, Ribeiro, Alzner. That's a decent amount of talent.
Sure, there's some talent, but the team's far from 'loaded'.

They've got two forwards (Ovi and Backstrom) who've ever scored 30 goals in an NHL season.

Green and Carlson are the only defensemen in their playoff top-6 who've ever hit 30 points in an NHL season.

The talent is very thin beyond the top guys.

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05-16-2013, 02:53 PM
  #352
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He certainly hasn't loaded it with playoff character. The talent is certainly there: Ovi, Backstrom, Green, Ribeiro, Alzner. That's a decent amount of talent.
Not Really. Pittsburgh, Boston, Chicago, Vancouver, LA, San Jose and others I'm overlooking all have much better high end depth than us. We're not all that special.

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05-16-2013, 03:06 PM
  #353
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Put another way: Show me a team that's considered talent-over-character, and it seems like half the time I can show you a team that isn't nearly as talented as it's perceived.
As I already mentioned: Vancouver. Loads of talent, no playoff character.

As much as you think "character" is open to interpretation as to what exactly it is, "talent" is equally open to such interpretation. A player one person sees as talented may not be so talented in the eyes of another person. Even the experts can't agree as to what exactly constitutes talent.

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05-16-2013, 03:09 PM
  #354
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Talent is more quantifiable than character, though. And VAN's current troubles are arguably related to overreacting to the Bruins and shedding talent for the sake of acquiring toughness (because that is no longer a team that plays like a talented team). Well, that and a truly hilarious goaltending rollercoaster.

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05-16-2013, 03:09 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
As I already mentioned: Vancouver. Loads of talent, no playoff character.

As much as you think "character" is open to interpretation as to what exactly it is, "talent" is equally open to such interpretation. A player one person sees as talented may not be so talented in the eyes of another person. Even the experts can't agree as to what exactly constitutes talent.
Vancouver got to game 7 of the finals with largely the same team and they have no playoff character?

I think you'll see that most around here find the Caps lacking in both talent and playoff character, however relative or abstract the concepts may be.

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05-16-2013, 03:10 PM
  #356
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Good posts on talent vs. character, brs.

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05-16-2013, 03:14 PM
  #357
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I mean, I really don't want to sound like I'm coming out against character guys or whatnot. Just that you have to be careful about how you manage your perceptions. Prime example (one of the few ones, actually) of a guy who noticeably steps it up in terms of production in the playoffs is Briere. Is he someone anyone would peg as a character guy?

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05-16-2013, 03:17 PM
  #358
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The focus shouldn't be "character".

It should be "intelligence/hockey smarts".

You can be all the "character" you want...but if don't have the marbles to go with it....well...you keep losing when it matters.

There's some clueless-ness on this team that needs to be addressed.

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05-16-2013, 03:19 PM
  #359
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Prime example (one of the few ones, actually) of a guy who noticeably steps it up in terms of production in the playoffs is Briere. Is he someone anyone would peg as a character guy?
Absolutely.

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05-16-2013, 03:20 PM
  #360
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I mean, the biggest issues to these eyes this series were the inability to pass the puck intelligently and accurately, and the inability to protect the puck. That killed their even strength play, prevented them from threatening Lundqvist for long stretches, and got them hemmed in the defensive zone.

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05-16-2013, 03:22 PM
  #361
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That could be composure as much as it is intelligence or talent, of course. Although I guess when you get down to it those are just components of talent as much as physical tools are.

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05-16-2013, 03:30 PM
  #362
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Talent is more quantifiable than character, though. And VAN's current troubles are arguably related to overreacting to the Bruins and shedding talent for the sake of acquiring toughness (because that is no longer a team that plays like a talented team). Well, that and a truly hilarious goaltending rollercoaster.
I'd also point out that not everything in hockey can be boiled down to a quantifiable number. That's a mistake I've noticed creeping in amongst fans in recent years: That hockey play can be "solved" by formulas and metrics.

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05-16-2013, 03:56 PM
  #363
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If Ribeiro leaves via FA

First of all I would like to apologize beforehand for all the "IFs" because there are a lot of them in this comment, but would like to get everyone's opinion.

If Ribeiro leaves and IF Briere is bought out (like numerous reports are saying), what do you think of the caps signing Briere to a 1-2 year deal for 4.5 (or so) per season? This is obviously only if the caps shed some salary as the caps still need to resign Alzner and Mojo, but just wondering what everyone thinks of bringing Briere in if he is bought out, if there is enough cap space, and if Ribeiro isn't resigned.

Briere has proven to step up his game in the playoffs no matter what team he is on. And the only reasoning behind bringing him in instead of resigning Ribeiro (if there was even enough cap space) would be because Briere would most likely be open to signing a short term deal, while Ribeiro has said numerous times he wants 4 years minimum.

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05-16-2013, 03:59 PM
  #364
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Forget Briere. Caps need to save a little money to resign some more pressing needs like Alzner.

Let 85 be the 2C.

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05-16-2013, 04:04 PM
  #365
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Forget Briere. Caps need to save a little money to resign some more pressing needs like Alzner.

Let 85 be the 2C.
I guess you didn't grasp as to what I was saying. I said if the caps shed some salary.

And 85 is way too soft to be a 2C no matter how well he played in the post season.

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05-16-2013, 04:07 PM
  #366
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Last edited by ChibiPooky: 05-16-2013 at 04:17 PM. Reason: Fixed YT
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05-16-2013, 04:11 PM
  #367
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What is the video suppose to be of? Didn't work.

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05-16-2013, 04:11 PM
  #368
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Let 85 be the 2C.

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05-16-2013, 04:12 PM
  #369
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I guess you didn't grasp as to what I was saying. I said if the caps shed some salary.

And 85 is way too soft to be a 2C no matter how well he played in the post season.
How does someone go about grasping "as to" what another is saying?

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05-16-2013, 04:13 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by HockeyTS32 View Post
First of all I would like to apologize beforehand for all the "IFs" because there are a lot of them in this comment, but would like to get everyone's opinion.

If Ribeiro leaves and IF Briere is bought out (like numerous reports are saying), what do you think of the caps signing Briere to a 1-2 year deal for 4.5 (or so) per season? This is obviously only if the caps shed some salary as the caps still need to resign Alzner and Mojo, but just wondering what everyone thinks of bringing Briere in if he is bought out, if there is enough cap space, and if Ribeiro isn't resigned.

Briere has proven to step up his game in the playoffs no matter what team he is on. And the only reasoning behind bringing him in instead of resigning Ribeiro (if there was even enough cap space) would be because Briere would most likely be open to signing a short term deal, while Ribeiro has said numerous times he wants 4 years minimum.
In addition to Ribeiro leaving AND buying out Jeff Schultz, they'd have to shed the entirety of Briere's theoretical contract in salary.

1) What team is going to take salary dumps in a year the salary cap drops?

2) What $4.5M worth of player(s) is going to go to fit Briere in?

Those are two important questions you need to ask before you go any further with this line of thought.

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05-16-2013, 04:13 PM
  #371
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Old
05-16-2013, 04:24 PM
  #372
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Well, as nobody expected, Poti isn't returning.

@SWhyno
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"It's time to move on." Impending UFA D Tom Poti says he won't return to #Caps. Wants to continue NHL career.
I can't see who would pick him up.

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05-16-2013, 04:24 PM
  #373
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I'd also point out that not everything in hockey can be boiled down to a quantifiable number. That's a mistake I've noticed creeping in amongst fans in recent years: That hockey play can be "solved" by formulas and metrics.
You can't measure heart and desire, but you know it when you see it, and certainly when its missing.


Its been missing from this core since day 1.


Last edited by kicksavedave: 05-16-2013 at 04:36 PM.
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05-16-2013, 04:26 PM
  #374
Morgoth Bauglir
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You can't measure heart and desire, but you know it when you see it, and certainly when its missing.

Its been missing from this core since day 1.
Exactly!

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05-16-2013, 04:55 PM
  #375
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Exactly!
My understanding if schultz's contract is too low for a compliance buy out. Minimum 3mil. Can anybody else confirm that? Do we simply regular buy out in that instance our hope to trade schultz?

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