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Jordan Eberle to the Islanders?

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Old
05-16-2013, 08:41 PM
  #26
robbo
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
What a wet dream proposal

Where's Tavares for a 2nd?
EDM might be giving up too much!

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05-16-2013, 08:44 PM
  #27
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I wouldn't mind trading Eberle for Hamonic and a good bottom 6 player at all.

Eberle for Hamonic and Bailey, possibly with the Oilers adding a piece.

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05-16-2013, 08:45 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I can see Islander fans' point. I mean, look how Hamonic has lit up the NHL. Okposo? Fugget about it. 25 year old 20 goal scoring wingers are a premium these days.
That's why scouts go WATCH players instead of looking at stat sheets.

Hammer is one of the better young Dmen in the league and would be you're number 1 instantly.

Did you see Okposo in the playoffs? We'll see if he can carry it over for a full season, but he was incredible.

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05-16-2013, 08:45 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I can see Islander fans' point. I mean, look how Hamonic has lit up the NHL. Okposo? Fugget about it. 25 year old 20 goal scoring wingers are a premium these days.
Yeah I have no idea why Oiler fans get bashed so much.....

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05-16-2013, 08:53 PM
  #30
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So many of these proposals make me kinda embarrassed as an Oil fan. If the Isles would 1 for 1 Hamonic for Eberle I'd be ecstatic. He's going to be a star, and will anchor them for a long time.

Realistically I'd want Reinhart+, and depending on the plus it could be possible. Eberle is a great player, and while I think he's going to make that contract look like a good deal, it's a huge detriment to a team like the Isles.

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05-16-2013, 09:03 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by BarDownBobo View Post
So many of these proposals make me kinda embarrassed as an Oil fan. If the Isles would 1 for 1 Hamonic for Eberle I'd be ecstatic. He's going to be a star, and will anchor them for a long time.

Realistically I'd want Reinhart+, and depending on the plus it could be possible. Eberle is a great player, and while I think he's going to make that contract look like a good deal, it's a huge detriment to a team like the Isles.
And... we're back to a mature discussion. Thank you.

The Isles can't afford to give up Hamonic. Our defense would be up the creek without a paddle. The Isles have a lot of talent up front (very much like the Oilers), but have a serious need on the back end (again, just like the Oilers). Reinhart was our #4 overall pick for a reason, we don't really have anyone like him in the system and he fits a HUGE need.

While Eberle alongside Tavares would be pretty damn good, he's more of a luxury with a pretty high price tag for the bargain basement hunting Isles. The teams are not a good fit as trading partners.

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05-16-2013, 09:07 PM
  #32
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Sorry, not into trading proving goal scorers for if's and maybe's.

Eberle could be the center piece for a #1 defenseman who is better than Hamonic now and we wouldn't even have to take a gamble on hoping that player pans out.

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05-16-2013, 09:09 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by oilerfan17 View Post
As an Oilers fan, it would take something much more significant than either of those packages to get me interested in trading Eberle. I don't see there being a deal there that would make sense for both teams.
That's the problem with your team though. It's physically made up of way too many soft finesse players

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05-16-2013, 09:11 PM
  #34
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Garth is going to try and find a solution for the top line within the organization. The Isles will have no interest in Eberle at this point, and I'm sure Edmonton has no intentions of trading him either.

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05-16-2013, 09:14 PM
  #35
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Tavares + Eberle would be clutch, bring back memories from WJC

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05-16-2013, 09:28 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I can see Islander fans' point. I mean, look how Hamonic has lit up the NHL. Okposo? Fugget about it. 25 year old 20 goal scoring wingers are a premium these days.
Yeah and Eberle had all of what 37 points? Two more points than the mighty Brad Boyes.
By your ascertain PAP is a better player since points is the way to measure a players contribution to his team.
I hope the Oilers keep all these skill players and continue on drafting these types Instead of getting players that help win games who play responsible defensively.
The Oilers need to add grit and size yet fans want them to draft a forward in the first round instead of a guy like Nurse. GM got fired because he didn't address needs. I root for Edmonton to succeed so I support them but I really think management needs to adjust to today's game

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05-16-2013, 09:35 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Vancouver Canucks View Post
Tavares + Eberle would be clutch, bring back memories from WJC
It would indeed be a really nice combo. Tavares has the puck possession ability to free up Eberle to go into stealth mode and show up to snipe some goals. Unfortunately, you'll only see them together in international tourneys or all star games.

BTW, nice ninja edit. Thanks.

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05-16-2013, 09:41 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
Yeah and Eberle had all of what 37 points? Two more points than the mighty Brad Boyes.
By your ascertain PAP is a better player since points is the way to measure a players contribution to his team.
I hope the Oilers keep all these skill players and continue on drafting these types Instead of getting players that help win games who play responsible defensively.
The Oilers need to add grit and size yet fans want them to draft a forward in the first round instead of a guy like Nurse. GM got fired because he didn't address needs. I root for Edmonton to succeed so I support them but I really think management needs to adjust to today's game
I actually measure a player over their career.

The size and grit argument is weak. We need it for our bottom 6, not our top 6. Our top 6 is what we're moving forward with. It might be easy to call them small and soft but they're like 23 and under.

There are many reasons for Eberle's lack of production this year but once you hit that point plateau he did you can't take that away from him. Ironically I used Okposo's best year statistically to draw my conclusion the least you could do is do the same. Or is his 4 goal season this year his benchmark now?

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05-16-2013, 09:55 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I actually measure a player over their career.

The size and grit argument is weak. We need it for our bottom 6, not our top 6. Our top 6 is what we're moving forward with. It might be easy to call them small and soft but they're like 23 and under.

There are many reasons for Eberle's lack of production this year but once you hit that point plateau he did you can't take that away from him. Ironically I used Okposo's best year statistically to draw my conclusion the least you could do is do the same. Or is his 4 goal season this year his benchmark now?
Interesting, you cite that you measure a player over their career yet you choose to highlight Eberle's best season and that 'you can't take it away from him' and use that as the benchmark. Disguising using Okposo's best statistical season to give the illusion that you're judging them fairly too. Very clever.

So, in the same vein as your last statement... is Eberle's past season the new benchmark for him? Was his last season a statistical outlier as a result of a highly publicized 'unsustainable' shooting percentage? So who's being fair?

And besides, no one is arguing that Okposo carries a higher value than Eberle. You were referring to Hamonic AND Okposo.

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05-16-2013, 10:11 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
Interesting, you cite that you measure a player over their career yet you choose to highlight Eberle's best season and that 'you can't take it away from him' and use that as the benchmark. Disguising using Okposo's best statistical season to give the illusion that you're judging them fairly too. Very clever.

So, in the same vein as your last statement... is Eberle's past season the new benchmark for him? Was his last season a statistical outlier as a result of a highly publicized 'unsustainable' shooting percentage? So who's being fair?

And besides, no one is arguing that Okposo carries a higher value than Eberle. You were referring to Hamonic AND Okposo.
I merely stated that it's unfair to cherry pick bad seasons to make a point. I give fair analysis to a player based on their best year, as long as it wasn't 4-5 years ago.

Is Eberle a flash in the pan? We'll find out eventually. Can't really draw any conclusions right now. I have absolutely no worry about him returning to form next year. He reminds me of the Sedin's when they were young and afraid to take a hit. In fact, Eberle refused to drive the net after getting blown up by Johnson I think it was. Only began driving the net towards the end of the season.

Anyway, this goes back to value. A proven 70 odd point scorer in Eberle has much more value than 20 goal scorer Okposo and unproven defenseman Hamonic. An Islander fan might not think so because he just knows Hamonic will turn out to be Karlsson 2.0, but I have my doubts. Primarily because of his point production. "But smackdaddy, he's a defensive defenseman he doesn't need to score points". Don't worry, I know! Because historically defensive/shut down D have much lower value than their flashy counter-parts. I'm still waiting for the offensive numbers we were promised when Hamonic was drafted, too.

Statistics reveal quite a lot about a player. You gotta read them in the right context. Such as Eberle's shooting percentage this year. Scoffing at Eberle for those 2 just shows me you have no idea about intrinsic value.

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05-16-2013, 10:13 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I actually measure a player over their career.

The size and grit argument is weak. We need it for our bottom 6, not our top 6. Our top 6 is what we're moving forward with. It might be easy to call them small and soft but they're like 23 and under.

There are many reasons for Eberle's lack of production this year but once you hit that point plateau he did you can't take that away from him. Ironically I used Okposo's best year statistically to draw my conclusion the least you could do is do the same. Or is his 4 goal season this year his benchmark now?
Your measuring a player based on point production rather than on value to ones team. Top six or not it has no bearing at all.

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05-16-2013, 10:32 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
I hope the Oilers keep all these skill players and continue on drafting these types Instead of getting players that help win games who play responsible defensively.
The Oilers need to add grit and size yet fans want them to draft a forward in the first round instead of a guy like Nurse. GM got fired because he didn't address needs. I root for Edmonton to succeed so I support them but I really think management needs to adjust to today's game
Edmonton only improved as a team in the short season, you don't need the toughest team to win every game today. Special teams. We all know the depth players are getting quality time in the AHL developing or else depth can be acquired for nothing, they're depth players.


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05-16-2013, 10:37 PM
  #43
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Off the top of my head, Brock Nelson+ would be of serious interest to the Oil.

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05-16-2013, 10:40 PM
  #44
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Eberle for Reinhart seems like a pretty fair trade IMO.

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05-16-2013, 10:42 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I merely stated that it's unfair to cherry pick bad seasons to make a point. I give fair analysis to a player based on their best year, as long as it wasn't 4-5 years ago.

Is Eberle a flash in the pan? We'll find out eventually. Can't really draw any conclusions right now. I have absolutely no worry about him returning to form next year. He reminds me of the Sedin's when they were young and afraid to take a hit. In fact, Eberle refused to drive the net after getting blown up by Johnson I think it was. Only began driving the net towards the end of the season.

Anyway, this goes back to value. A proven 70 odd point scorer in Eberle has much more value than 20 goal scorer Okposo and unproven defenseman Hamonic. An Islander fan might not think so because he just knows Hamonic will turn out to be Karlsson 2.0, but I have my doubts. Primarily because of his point production. "But smackdaddy, he's a defensive defenseman he doesn't need to score points". Don't worry, I know! Because historically defensive/shut down D have much lower value than their flashy counter-parts. I'm still waiting for the offensive numbers we were promised when Hamonic was drafted, too.

Statistics reveal quite a lot about a player. You gotta read them in the right context. Such as Eberle's shooting percentage this year. Scoffing at Eberle for those 2 just shows me you have no idea about intrinsic value.
Ok, now you're reaching and bringing up stuff out of nowhere. Eberle got lit up and was afraid to drive the net? How does that factor into your argument? You're so enamored with judging a player predominantly on his stats, yet you bring something subjective into this? What other subjective 'reason' are you going to use to try and prove your point? Come on, be consistent and stick to the criteria that YOU set.

You also say that Eberle's 70+ point season makes him proven. Really? The reason why it can be considered a statistical outlier is because it's not consistent with the other 2 seasons. So for now, you have 1 out of 3 seasons where he topped that mark and now he's proven - we'll just have to use projected stats for this past season due to the lockout.

As for Hamonic, you're looking ONLY at his point totals to value his worth? Points are not always the be and end all of judging defensemen. There are other very important stats like TOI. You may not be familiar with Hamonic since he was drafted, but big point totals was never expected of him. He was actually an afterthought to Aaron Ness who was drafted earlier in the 2nd round by the Isles. Who the hell knew Hammer would grow 2 inches and put on about 15 pounds since being drafted? I didn't because I readily admit I was like 'Travis Who?' when he was drafted.

I agree that statistics can be very enlightening. But only looking at one stat... may not be the best way to accurately assess a player. I like to try and get as much information before making a determination, but hey... that's just me.

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Old
05-16-2013, 11:45 PM
  #46
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Niño and Hamonic/Reinhart

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05-17-2013, 12:00 AM
  #47
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Whoever said Reinhart and Bailey, I say deal to you sir. I think Reinhart will be great but JT and Eberle is very hard to pass up.

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05-17-2013, 12:08 AM
  #48
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Eberle for Reinhart seems like a pretty fair trade IMO.
As an Islanders fan even I realize we would have to add something significant.

All that being said I can't see the Oilers wanting to trade Eberle unless it's for an NHL ready player. Maybe this time next year a Reinhart+ for Eberle deal might make more sense


Last edited by boredmale: 05-17-2013 at 12:15 AM.
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05-17-2013, 12:31 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Mozesmadness View Post
For Eberle it would tak a pretty sweet package:

Eberle

For

Hamonic
Okposo
Nelson

That's a pretty god deal and would be what it would take
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I can see Islander fans' point. I mean, look how Hamonic has lit up the NHL. Okposo? Fugget about it. 25 year old 20 goal scoring wingers are a premium these days.
Sigh.

Sorry about these, Islander fans.

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05-17-2013, 12:44 AM
  #50
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Ok, now you're reaching and bringing up stuff out of nowhere. Eberle got lit up and was afraid to drive the net? How does that factor into your argument? You're so enamored with judging a player predominantly on his stats, yet you bring something subjective into this? What other subjective 'reason' are you going to use to try and prove your point? Come on, be consistent and stick to the criteria that YOU set.

You also say that Eberle's 70+ point season makes him proven. Really? The reason why it can be considered a statistical outlier is because it's not consistent with the other 2 seasons. So for now, you have 1 out of 3 seasons where he topped that mark and now he's proven - we'll just have to use projected stats for this past season due to the lockout.

As for Hamonic, you're looking ONLY at his point totals to value his worth? Points are not always the be and end all of judging defensemen. There are other very important stats like TOI. You may not be familiar with Hamonic since he was drafted, but big point totals was never expected of him. He was actually an afterthought to Aaron Ness who was drafted earlier in the 2nd round by the Isles. Who the hell knew Hammer would grow 2 inches and put on about 15 pounds since being drafted? I didn't because I readily admit I was like 'Travis Who?' when he was drafted.

I agree that statistics can be very enlightening. But only looking at one stat... may not be the best way to accurately assess a player. I like to try and get as much information before making a determination, but hey... that's just me.
I just mentioned a few details of Eberle's struggles and how it relates to your claim that his statistics could be an anomaly. There's really nothing substantial that could be used against his previous and future production. I would argue that this year is the statistical anomaly for Eberle and that being one year removed from his banner year is still relevant and therefore cannot be taken away from him. Remember, his 76 points came in his 2nd year.

Proven means actually done. Eberle is a proven 70 point scorer because it's in the books. Whether you believe he's capable of repeating or not is neither here nor there. But as a 23 year old (Just turned) you would be foolish to bet against him if you've spent any time watching just how much raw talent the guy has. But you could probably say the same about Hamonic, right? Unfortunately Hamonic isn't backed up by proven statistics. You see where we're at, right? I anticipate Eberle regaining form and you anticipate Hamonic achieving form. But in real world values, vacuum or not, proven talent will almost always trump potential, hype notwithstanding.

Understand I'm not saying Hamonic is destined to bust. He could very likely turn out to be an exceptional talent. But he hasn't shown it yet, and I hold the same scrutiny for Hedman in Tampa. Great talent, not there yet. Until either of them live up to their hype/expectations, they just can't be considered higher value than players who have. That's why I find it humorous and a bit arrogant to scoff at Eberle for Okposo+Hamonic. Obviously this is value in a vacuum, no outside factors considered.

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