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Old
05-16-2013, 11:46 AM
  #176
dmanfish90
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
do I REALLY need to explain my post ? seriously ?
Yeah I think you do. Are you saying the the Swedish Elite League is amateur hockey? Because if it's not amateur (aka CHL, NCAA, etc.) then it's considered to be professional hockey (AHL, NHL, SEL, KHL, Swiss A, etc.). Now there are various levels of professional hockey (minors, majors like NHL, etc.) but SEL is professional hockey.

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05-16-2013, 11:50 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
What happened to Travis Moen. He used to be a perfect 3rd/4th line guy.
Maybe something off ice or health? I'm sure this is something MT and MB are looking at. I'm sure they didn't expect the 11-12 offensive production, but at least the grit , effort and toughness.

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he is below average 5/5 , brutal +- and got beat way to much should be a 20 minute second pairing guy now
Defensively even if he looked slow at times he is still AT LEAST NHL average. I think part of his struggles was the condensed schedule leading to fatigue, next year is back to a longer but less intense schedule. +- was largely a result of getting huge minutes with tough opposition with Subban out and then with Subban getting less/softer minutes early on. I agree that 20-21 minutes a night for Mrakov would be ideal though.

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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
If you read my post correctly, I said see Budaj's 2011-13 numbers. In 2010-11 season, he lost the starting job to Anderson, before he was traded to Ottawa.

Okay the whole GA thing I didn't know. But still for years Budaj has sucked. Whereas once upon a time, Biron was a starter in Buffalo and Philly.


Why wouldn't you trust Theodore? What are you basing this on...?



Biron was starter and lost his starting job in both places like Budaj did. Both guys are low end #1 or high end #2 guys...but Biron is older and getting close to the end. #2 goalie should be far from our worries.

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05-16-2013, 11:56 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Maybe something off ice or health? I'm sure this is something MT and MB are looking at. I'm sure they didn't expect the 11-12 offensive production, but at least the grit , effort and toughness.



Defensively even if he looked slow at times he is still AT LEAST NHL average. I think part of his struggles was the condensed schedule leading to fatigue, next year is back to a longer but less intense schedule. +- was largely a result of getting huge minutes with tough opposition with Subban out and then with Subban getting less/softer minutes early on. I agree that 20-21 minutes a night for Mrakov would be ideal though.



Biron was starter and lost his starting job in both places like Budaj did. Both guys are low end #1 or high end #2 guys...but Biron is older and getting close to the end. #2 goalie should be far from our worries.
pretty much.

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05-16-2013, 11:57 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Yeah I think you do. Are you saying the the Swedish Elite League is amateur hockey? Because if it's not amateur (aka CHL, NCAA, etc.) then it's considered to be professional hockey (AHL, NHL, SEL, KHL, Swiss A, etc.). Now there are various levels of professional hockey (minors, majors like NHL, etc.) but SEL is professional hockey.
good, then he guy is ready for North american rink sized NHL action then...

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05-16-2013, 12:31 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
ets wait till he play ONE pro game please...
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Originally Posted by Railman View Post
?
Nygren spent the last two seasons in the SEL. He is playing professional hockey.
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
do I REALLY need to explain my post ? seriously ?
No need to explain your post, seriously. You were just ignorant of the fact that Elitserien is a professional hockey league or you thought Nygren was still playing in SuperElit.

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05-16-2013, 01:05 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by brian70 View Post
No need to explain your post, seriously. You were just ignorant of the fact that Elitserien is a professional hockey league or you thought Nygren was still playing in SuperElit.
you know I was replying to someone who suggested Nygren would make the jump to the NHL (the "bigs") as soon as next season, right ?

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05-16-2013, 01:15 PM
  #182
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I've never seen so much fail in an OP before, I honestly don't even know where to begin
Someones opinion differs from yours! Heavens ta betsy what will we do?

You should begin at not making worthless posts like this one.

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05-16-2013, 01:32 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
you know I was replying to someone who suggested Nygren would make the jump to the NHL (the "bigs") as soon as next season, right ?
Yes, I do. Do you know now that Elitserien is a professional hockey league or would you rather use one of your little icons to express your denseness?

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Old
05-16-2013, 04:11 PM
  #184
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Im worrying that ,Bergevin, won't make any changes and use theses excuses to throw a year away, but I think he is smarter than that. This year was an evaluation year for him, no major changes, no trades at the deadline, he evaluated his group of players and youngsters and will make changes this summer. Or anyways I hope he does because we clearly need them. People have to stop using the "We did lose in 5 games, but we ended up 2nd in the conference tho!" excuse. Remember our motto? No excuses.

Next year, other teams will be taking the habs seriously and we will be playing in the west were teams are bigger and if we end up going forward with the smurfs, we might be fighting for an 8th place in the conference. We all know that the habs were not a true 2nd seeded team, Senators were not a true 7th seeded team aswell. It was badluck in the playoffs, but if we look at it historically , the habs have a hard time in the playoffs vs bigger teams. Opposing teams strategy is pretty simple, anyways the Ottawa strategy worked fined for them. Hit the habs, cheapshot them, slash them after the whistle. They won't retaliate so just hope you don't get a penalty, if you do get a penalty then kill it off and repeat. Habs were intimated and the only way we get out of this is by becoming atleast an average sized team, and add toughness to our D and our top-6. MB could use the excuse that most of you guys are using, "Desharnais just re-signed a contract.." "Gionta is on his last year of his contract, no way we trade our captain" "Gorges is a veteran, give him another shot" "Moen looked solid in the playoffs"

My only hope is that MB alteast signs one of , Bickell , Clarkson, Clowe or Reghr/Murray. I honestly don't know how long is it going to take before you guys open your eyes and see that team balance is key, habs have almost everything except size and grit. We have the so called "elite goalie", atleast on some nights. We have depth scoring, we have a superstar in Subban. We just need more size and grit on our team before we can actually excel in the playoffs. I'm not talking about winning the cup, I mean getting past the first round without Halak in net for God sake. The playoffs is a whole new season, the habs looked good, in reality they were good. They lacked that size to compete physically with them, they did it in game 2 but you can only go so far physically with a soft team. They could of easily won this series if they had more guys crashing the net, and picking up thoses rebounds. Carey also did not help, he is 25 years old, he needs to be better at some point. I'm sure he will bounce back, and be his old self again, but if this team wants to be succesful the management will HAVE to make impact trades and changes in the off-season, they have no choice. A 5 game first round exit is not acceptable, specially if your team ends up 2nd in the conference.

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05-16-2013, 04:18 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk4habs View Post
My only hope is that MB alteast signs one of , Bickell , Clarkson, Clowe or Reghr/Murray. I honestly don't know how long is it going to take before you guys open your eyes and see that team balance is key, habs have almost everything except size and grit. We have the so called "elite goalie", atleast on some nights. We have depth scoring, we have a superstar in Subban. We just need more size and grit on our team before we can actually excel in the playoffs. I'm not talking about winning the cup, I mean getting past the first round without Halak in net for God sake. The playoffs is a whole new season, the habs looked good, in reality they were good. They lacked that size to compete physically with them, they did it in game 2 but you can only go so far physically with a soft team. They could of easily won this series if they had more guys crashing the net, and picking up thoses rebounds. Carey also did not help, he is 25 years old, he needs to be better at some point. I'm sure he will bounce back, and be his old self again, but if this team wants to be succesful the management will HAVE to make impact trades and changes in the off-season, they have no choice. A 5 game first round exit is not acceptable, specially if your team ends up 2nd in the conference.
Are you ok paying a guy like Clowe 4 years and 18 mil? Or a guy like Clarkson 5 or 6 years at 4.75/year? It's all well and good to say "go get those guys" but there is a steep price to pay and in 2 years those deals could be an issue when trying to add key pieces to the team. There is no guarantee either guy can play on the top 6 going forward on a legit contender, think about the numbers and about that.

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05-16-2013, 04:24 PM
  #186
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New fan here. Anyway we can make a deal with the ducks? I wouldn't mind Etem and Ryan coming into our lineup. Ryan solves some top 6 issues for us and we get a speedy winger that shows promise. Ryan obviously being the main piece, do we have any decent D that the ducks would bite on?

Edit: Sorry mods didn't see the trade idea / proposal thread.


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Old
05-16-2013, 04:50 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Are you ok paying a guy like Clowe 4 years and 18 mil? Or a guy like Clarkson 5 or 6 years at 4.75/year? It's all well and good to say "go get those guys" but there is a steep price to pay and in 2 years those deals could be an issue when trying to add key pieces to the team. There is no guarantee either guy can play on the top 6 going forward on a legit contender, think about the numbers and about that.
Clowe is almost a carbon copy of Milan Lucic, a player we need so badly in our top 6. People had the same questions when we signed Prust at 2.5m/4years , was it really worth it? Is he going to be an impact player? It's safe to say he earned every little penny.

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Originally Posted by Habsncabs2002 View Post
New fan here. Anyway we can make a deal with the ducks? I wouldn't mind Etem and Ryan coming into our lineup. Ryan solves some top 6 issues for us and we get a speedy winger that shows promise. Ryan obviously being the main piece, do we have any decent D that the ducks would bite on?

Edit: Sorry mods didn't see the trade idea / proposal thread.
Etem and Ryan are excellent gritty players, I have no idea what the asking price would be tho. Ryan for Pacioretty? Etem for Tinordi? I personally would not do that.

But if it's Ryan for Desharnais and Gionta and Etem for a 2nd+Weber. I would do it. But I'm 100% thoses players would fetch much more if they were shopped around.

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05-16-2013, 04:50 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Are you ok paying a guy like Clowe 4 years and 18 mil? Or a guy like Clarkson 5 or 6 years at 4.75/year? It's all well and good to say "go get those guys" but there is a steep price to pay and in 2 years those deals could be an issue when trying to add key pieces to the team. There is no guarantee either guy can play on the top 6 going forward on a legit contender, think about the numbers and about that.
agreed my friend thats the problem with UFA`S and non free agents and the reason why caps are screwed up for all teams

the problem is average-good players are making too much

the barometer is now 4-5 mil for 40-50 point players , or # 4 dman and that is the problem folks

its not PK getting seven , its Gio at 5 and Gorges at nearly 4 that kill caps


You would figure after the owners looking like idiots 99% of the time with the Komi, Drury , DiPietro, Gomez, Gio, ( the soon to be amnestied Brad Richards ) , Luongo, Connolly , Garrison , Zajak , 100+ more , you would figure they would stop this non sense and say to themsleves , WTF are we doing .

most of these guys are non impact or are too old to earn thier contracts and who is available atthe trade deadline a year later , the same dude you overpaid

as for the the players you mentioned Clowe is done , stay away

Bickell I like at 3 max , and Clarkson at 4 mil max , but some fool will give him 5

seriously are we a Clarkson away from anything right now ????

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05-16-2013, 04:53 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk4habs View Post
Clowe is almost a carbon copy of Milan Lucic, a player we need so badly in our top 6. People had the same questions when we signed Prust at 2.5m/4years , was it really worth it? Is he going to be an impact player? It's safe to say he earned every little penny.



Etem and Ryan are excellent gritty players, I have no idea what the asking price would be tho. Ryan for Pacioretty? Etem for Tinordi? I personally would not do that.

But if it's Ryan for Desharnais and Gionta and Etem for a 2nd+Weber. I would do it. But I'm 100% thoses players would fetch much more if they were shopped around.
buddy wtf are you smoking in the last 2 trades u just mentioned

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05-16-2013, 04:59 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
agreed my friend thats the problem with UFA`S and non free agents and the reason why caps are screwed up for all teams

the problem is average-good players are making too much

the barometer is now 4-5 mil for 40-50 point players , or # 4 dman and that is the problem folks

its not PK getting seven , its Gio at 5 and Gorges at nearly 4 that kill caps


You would figure after the owners looking like idiots 99% of the time with the Komi, Drury , DiPietro, Gomez, Gio, ( the soon to be amnestied Brad Richards ) , Luongo, Connolly , Garrison , Zajak , 100+ more , you would figure they would stop this non sense and say to themsleves , WTF are we doing .

most of these guys are non impact or are too old to earn thier contracts and who is available atthe trade deadline a year later , the same dude you overpaid

as for the the players you mentioned Clowe is done , stay away

Bickell I like at 3 max , and Clarkson at 4 mil max , but some fool will give him 5

seriously are we a Clarkson away from anything right now ????
So we go ahead with the same group of players only to have another first round exit? Clowe is far from done, he took on two of the toughest D-enforcers in the east in Engelland and Fraser and did very well against both of them. I would much rather have Clarkson at 5 than Gio at 5, paying Bickell only .5M more than Prust? I would rather have Bickell at 3.5 than DD at 3.5

Bickel put up similar numbers, Bickell is 6'4 223 and DD is 5'7 170 , one is intimidating , the other is intimidated. One hits, the other gets hits. One fights, the other shies away from scrums. One crashes the net, the other creates turnovers at the slightest physical play. One loses 1 vs 1 battles while the other wins them. I'll let you chose who are the two I'm talking about.

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05-16-2013, 05:02 PM
  #191
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buddy wtf are you smoking in the last 2 trades u just mentioned
did you not see that I was being sarcastic? I said I'm 100% sure that they would fetch much more, but if it came down to that I would do that trade. I wonder if people still understand sarcasm anymore.

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05-16-2013, 06:50 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk4habs View Post
Clowe is almost a carbon copy of Milan Lucic, a player we need so badly in our top 6. People had the same questions when we signed Prust at 2.5m/4years , was it really worth it? Is he going to be an impact player? It's safe to say he earned every little penny.


Clowe isn't a carbon copy of Lucic. Lucic can skate pretty well, Clowe is slow as molasses, this is a big issue, because when you face top teams in the playoffs they can skate and he can't keep up. That's a big reason why San Jose traded him. Prust has no problem keeping up with the play, plus his cap hit was 2.5 mil, Clowe will cost something like 4.5 mil/year if not more.

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05-16-2013, 06:57 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk4habs View Post
So we go ahead with the same group of players only to have another first round exit? Clowe is far from done, he took on two of the toughest D-enforcers in the east in Engelland and Fraser and did very well against both of them. I would much rather have Clarkson at 5 than Gio at 5, paying Bickell only .5M more than Prust? I would rather have Bickell at 3.5 than DD at 3.5

Bickel put up similar numbers, Bickell is 6'4 223 and DD is 5'7 170 , one is intimidating , the other is intimidated. One hits, the other gets hits. One fights, the other shies away from scrums. One crashes the net, the other creates turnovers at the slightest physical play. One loses 1 vs 1 battles while the other wins them. I'll let you chose who are the two I'm talking about.
The problem with your post is Clarkson won't be going for 1 year at 5 mil like Gionta is owed, he'll get 4-5-6 years at 4.5 mil. Clarkson is bigger/tougher than Gionta but a downgrade everywhere else(Leadership, scoring, playmaking, defensive play).

Clowe has had TWO concussions this year, huge red flag.

Bickell's career numbers:
220 GP 40-50-90(0.40 PPGM)
Deshranais career numbers:
178 GP 34-77-111(0.62 PPGM)

So no, they don't put up the same numbers. Yes Bickell is bigger, but it doesn't make the numbers the same.

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05-16-2013, 08:03 PM
  #194
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Yes, I do. Do you know now that Elitserien is a professional hockey league or would you rather use one of your little icons to express your denseness?
considering you're the one insisting, I'd say this ->

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05-16-2013, 08:09 PM
  #195
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did you not see that I was being sarcastic? I said I'm 100% sure that they would fetch much more, but if it came down to that I would do that trade. I wonder if people still understand sarcasm anymore.
sorry dude my bad

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05-16-2013, 08:14 PM
  #196
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So we go ahead with the same group of players only to have another first round exit? Clowe is far from done, he took on two of the toughest D-enforcers in the east in Engelland and Fraser and did very well against both of them. I would much rather have Clarkson at 5 than Gio at 5, paying Bickell only .5M more than Prust? I would rather have Bickell at 3.5 than DD at 3.5

Bickel put up similar numbers, Bickell is 6'4 223 and DD is 5'7 170 , one is intimidating , the other is intimidated. One hits, the other gets hits. One fights, the other shies away from scrums. One crashes the net, the other creates turnovers at the slightest physical play. One loses 1 vs 1 battles while the other wins them. I'll let you chose who are the two I'm talking about.
I agree bro but to a point

its the term thats the issue

u sign Clowe to more than 2 years , he will be done in year three +

lets not make the same mistake with Gio , Spacek , etc...

its a delicate issue , and as much as we need help , grossly overpaying is the problem with UFA`S

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05-16-2013, 08:24 PM
  #197
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[QUOTE=Monctonscout;66164847]The problem with your post is Clarkson won't be going for 1 year at 5 mil like Gionta is owed, he'll get 4-5-6 years at 4.5 mil. Clarkson is bigger/tougher than Gionta but a downgrade everywhere else(Leadership, scoring, playmaking, defensive play).

Clowe has had TWO concussions this year, huge red flag.

Bickell's career numbers:
220 GP 40-50-90(0.40 PPGM)
Deshranais career numbers:
178 GP 34-77-111(0.62 PPGM)

So no, they don't put up the same numbers. Yes Bickell is bigger, but it doesn't make the numbers the same.[/QUOTE

first off DD gotta go at any cost, he is utterly useless moving forward but agreed on the rest , how much and how long a term are you willing to commit

I would rather go the trade rout

for example Joel Ward of the Caps has 2 years left , and others who dont have major term left maybe better options

what about a Ryan Jones who wont command a large deal , these are juts examples of short term help while we wait for players to develop

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05-17-2013, 06:47 AM
  #198
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With all the talks that MB made about not building a team through UFAs, i'm scared by who's gonna go and who's gonna stay and who's gonna join the team. I hope he's gonna get rid of the guys that are not good enough and don't be afraid to bring in a good quality piece.

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05-17-2013, 07:29 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
The problem with your post is Clarkson won't be going for 1 year at 5 mil like Gionta is owed, he'll get 4-5-6 years at 4.5 mil. Clarkson is bigger/tougher than Gionta but a downgrade everywhere else(Leadership, scoring, playmaking, defensive play).

Clowe has had TWO concussions this year, huge red flag.

Bickell's career numbers:
220 GP 40-50-90(0.40 PPGM)
Deshranais career numbers:
178 GP 34-77-111(0.62 PPGM)

So no, they don't put up the same numbers. Yes Bickell is bigger, but it doesn't make the numbers the same.
first off DD gotta go at any cost, he is utterly useless moving forward but agreed on the rest , how much and how long a term are you willing to commit

I would rather go the trade rout

for example Joel Ward of the Caps has 2 years left , and others who dont have major term left maybe better options

what about a Ryan Jones who wont command a large deal , these are juts examples of short term help while we wait for players to develop
It's hard to have an intelligent discussion with someone who says "DD gotta go at any cost". That is a quick way to run the team into the ground and then not have to worry about having size for the playoffs because you don't even make the playoffs.

As MB said it's not a team full of Jones and Wards that will win anything, you need balance. I see 5'8-5'11" guys making an impact every night in the playoffs yet our genius fanbase thinks we have to get rid of all our sub 6' players. Didn't Marchand score 2 last night? I'm pretty sure guys like Marchand and Recchi were playing wing on Boston's best line in the final 2 years ago when they beat Vancouver. Ottawa beat us motly with small guys(Kalrsson Alfredsson Turris Pageau Conacher Condra) scoring.

Some want to get rid of Diaz yet you look at LA and Voynov who is the same size has 3 game winners already...

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05-17-2013, 07:56 AM
  #200
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People I'd like to see go:

1) Gionta - but I am quite certain he's going nowhere. TRADE

2) DD - I was a big fan of David but these past playoffs showed me that he needs to be insulated by two big, bruising bone-crunching, forwards and this team doesn't have enough to spare. So it came down to keeping Gallagher or DD. Gally showed me more and I want only one smurf in our lineup. TRADE

3) Ryder - I got a love-hate relationship with this player. Right now after the putrid playoffs he had, I'm in my hate cycle and don't feel like paying him the term & money he'll expect. DON"T SIGN.

4) Kaberle - From the press conference sounds like MB still has hopes of trading him for a smelly jock strap but I'm 99.99% certain he'll be BOUGHT OUT

5) Webber - Not even worth explaining. TRADE

6) Diaz - Besides Emelin & Tinordi, we need another tough, stay-at-home, crease clearing defenceman. It came down to Gorges or Diaz. I opted for player 61. TRADE

The uncertain ones:

1) Moen - if I could get a good deal I would unload him. He no longer wants to play his game

2) Halpern - if he's not expecting too much I would keep him

3) Bouillon - I'd slot him as our 7th d.

4) Drewiske - I really didn't see enough of him & I don't know if he would appreciate being d #8.

The far fetch

1) Shop Price. See what his market value is and at the same time see what an up & coming goalie (Bernier for example) costs. If we come way ahead I'd go for it. An example of what I mean:

Price for a top 3 pick (would mean Mackinnon or Drouin), a 2nd rounder this year and a prospect

Bernier for Kristo + spare change.

I would jump on this trade. Many posters keep saying we got a lousy defence. I don't think so. I think our defence is in the top 7. We just need one gritty player back there. We just had an inconsistent goalie who made our D look bad.

But this ain't gonna happen. that's why I placed it in the far-fetch.

So I'd see our team like this

Bourque Pleks ******
Pacioretty Eller Gally
Prust Chuckie ******
Moen White/Halpern Armstrong

Markov Emelin
Gorges Subban
Tinordi *******
Bouillon

Price
Budaj

We need 2 forwards and one defenceman. Both of the forwards would have to be grittier than the three we let go. And those two would have to add power to our forward lineup & maintain the speed. The one D - well I explained above what I'd expect.


Last edited by onice: 05-17-2013 at 08:03 AM.
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