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Maple Leafs GM Dave Nonis has his work cut out for him

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05-16-2013, 02:10 PM
  #76
Liferleafer
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Originally Posted by The Big D View Post
The breakdown is 5.33 for elite to upper echelon level goaltending for 5-6 years then the recapture is ~$2M/each to Toronto and Vancouver for the next 3 season (guessing he retires after 6) right now the leafs have $2m in buy outs with Armstrong and tucker, and another 9.25m in the minors.
As for tr what'cha done for me lately guy, it was pretty obvious that Vancouver was swept on spite of luongo's play, in fact numerous shark players were publically vocal in stating they were relieved to see Schneider in net. I'll take Logan couture & jumbo joes opinion of a goalie over a couchside analysts.
So i guess Claude Julien's post series presser in which he gave total praise to the Leafs means we don't need to make any changes....i mean i'll take a stanley cup winning coach's opinion over a couchside analyst.

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05-16-2013, 02:46 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Game 5 against Boston: we score 2....we win.
Game 6 against Boston: we score 2....we win.

One would think that if a second rate hack like Reimer could steal 2 games in a row, an "elite" goalie like Luongo wouldn't have an issue.
When did I ever call Reimer a second rate hack? I'm one of his biggest supporters. Just because I'm also defending Luongo dosen't mean I don't like Reimer.

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05-16-2013, 03:10 PM
  #78
Liferleafer
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Originally Posted by Loosie View Post
When did I ever call Reimer a second rate hack? I'm one of his biggest supporters. Just because I'm also defending Luongo dosen't mean I don't like Reimer.
Sorry, it wasn't an accusation. It just amazes me how everyone wants to use things like Luongo's FORMER...past, as in not recently.....performances in his "defense". What does his gold medal do for TO now...what gains do we get from his former vezina nomination....how is his finals appearence of 2 years ago beneficial to us now? Yet in the same breath, people give no regard to what Reimer has done in the now. Lets be honest, Luongo has been on the downslope since 2011. He is 34, has a 9 year deal and couldn't put up better numbers than the goalie we have this season (who is also much younger and much cheaper). See, for me, that is the key. When evaluating an older player we need to look at his current play....and it's regressing. He is also saddled with a 9 year contract that will include penalties. So, using the fact that his play is declining, how are we to justify taking on that contract? How can anyone state with any clarity that he will continue to be "elite" for 5-6 more years when he isn't playing to an "elite" status now?

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05-16-2013, 03:13 PM
  #79
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Why is Luongo's name even being thrown out now?

James Reimer is the future, people - he proved that this season.

Not only did he prove it, he BLOODY EARNED IT.

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05-16-2013, 03:29 PM
  #80
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Well Canucks are a team built to win NOW, so they will not be looking for pick(s) and prospects but rather NHL roster players instead.

This fits in with Nonis' statement of not prepared to deal those types of assets for older players.

Vancouver promising change, up against the cap and motivated to deal also helps in this matter as well.

So the potential for a deal his here.
Canucks aren't built to win anything.

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05-16-2013, 03:34 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by LeafOfBread View Post
Not to mention that Gillis is a pompous, arrogant ass and will probably want the moon and sun in return.
Especially after the Luongo fiasco where Nonis embarrassed him.

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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Well Canucks are a team built to win NOW, so they will not be looking for pick(s) and prospects but rather NHL roster players instead.

This fits in with Nonis' statement of not prepared to deal those types of assets for older players.

Vancouver promising change, up against the cap and motivated to deal also helps in this matter as well.

So the potential for a deal his here.
If I were the Canucks Kesler would be one of the players to keep.

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NOW has already passed for Vancouver. sorry
Might be very well true.

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05-16-2013, 05:09 PM
  #82
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The #1 Center can wait, the Leafs are scoring more than enough to be competitive. It's the defensive holes that need patching up. Gardiner and Franson are the future on defense with Rielly not being far behind. Liles and Gunnarson are redundant and we should look for an opportunity to move them out and acquire a responsible two-way defenseman.

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05-16-2013, 07:29 PM
  #83
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I'd rather keep Komo on the farm for one more year and buy out Liles and Grabo because you can only buy out 2 players and we are going to be stuck with these 2 for 7 more years while Komo's contract is for just 1 more year. I'm assuming all 3 are not tradeable.



Fraser has no upside, he's decent against other teams 3rd and 4th lines but a nightmare against 1st or 2nd lines. However he does give TO playable muscle as opposed to McLaren and Orr so keep Fraser as a 7th d-man. I'd say the same might apply to O'Byrne.



Tyler Bozak has been a crutch that TO coaches have relied on as an option for 1st line center in lieu of a proper 1st line center. I would like the crutch removed so the search for a proper 1st line center is more earnestly pursued.



I don't see any particular need for McLaren or Orr, staged fights hold no particular value at least in my eyes .



Komarov the human pinball has 4th line upside only so only resign his as a 4th liner.



Colborne may become an adequate 3rd liner but I don't think his upside goes beyond that, Frattin too.



I also think Kostka has more to give and when he becomes more seasoned he may surprise us.



Looking forward I see TO's roster minus the deadwood/expedables as;



1st Line: Lupul/ ? /Kessel

2nd line:JVR/Kadri/ ?

3rd line: ? /Colborne/Frattin

4th line:Kule/McClement/Komarov



Defensive pairings:



Phanny/Gardiner

Gunnar/Ranger

Franson/Reilly

Fraser/Kostka



Goaltending seems reasonable.



1st line center, 2nd line RW and 3rd line LW is what is missing that should push TO from pretender to contender. Mac could probably fill the 3rd line LW position but not at his current salary.



Outside of Ranger and Reilly I don't see the minors or junior/college being a source to fill any of these positions. Clarkson may be a great fit on the 2nd line as a physical presence but he's only had 2 productive NHL seasons so relying on him for offense is risky and any player on the first 2 lines must be able to provide some offensive value.

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05-16-2013, 09:11 PM
  #84
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How dare people mention Grabo and buyout in the same sentence. I know it still hurts but damn. That's disrespectful and stupid.

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05-16-2013, 09:12 PM
  #85
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He's got Loiselle who I have heard is a good hockey man and is quite capable in being a GM one day.

Nonis will be fine, he has more than enough guys he can delegate to.

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05-16-2013, 10:41 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Team salary structure is the premise behind this belief, and a reason behind why its been reported in the media.

Grabovski when heading for free agency last summer (similar situation) to Bozak this summer received $5.5 mil as the Leafs #2 center.

Bozak contributes more and plays above Grabovski on the teams depth chart often centering the top line. Making Bozak >> Grabovski in contribution.

That is a situation for Bozak and his agent to be in a position to ask for similar $$ & term to what Grabovski received. Contracts are negotiated based on comparable situations and this one is on the table for Bozak.
Grabo was coming off three stronger seasons, in a higher cap environment, and they overpaid by about 500k. Plus they weren't saddled with just having overpaid Grabo already I think Bozak would jump at 4.5 but I don't think they offered that kind of money. The actual number he signs for (wherever that may be) is going to be very interesting. I don't think they will contemplate a buyout for Grabovski if they have the option to take a year to trade him. Just simple business math. That puts down-force on the money they could offer Bozak, and may mean they let him walk, rather than commit to yet another mediocre centre who has to be shifted to the bottom 6. If Grabo were gone then they might be more daring but this has to look like deja vu for the club. A sub 20 goal center won't be that hard to replace.

I like the idea of buying out Komi and saving the compliances. I have a hard time believing Liles will require a buyout though. There are teams like the Oilers that are screaming for NHL caliber defense.

I am trying to figure out what they could do with a $20 million Bozak when they decide he isn't going to be Kessel's center. If Grabo and Liles are gone, and they don't add more bad contracts, then it isn't the end of the world I guess. Especially if the cap starts to go up next year. Once the buyouts and the last of LACK are dealt with, a $4 million guy on the third line isn't anything really.


Last edited by nuck: 05-16-2013 at 11:10 PM.
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05-16-2013, 11:00 PM
  #87
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What about Komisarek ?

Only so many buyouts to go around to clean up past mistakes so you have to pick wisely.

Big Mike seems like he is also on Nonis to-do list of players to remove this summer.
For amnesty buyouts you want to get rid of term over cap hit. Komisarek has 1 year left on his deal while Liles has 3. It's easy enough to wait out Komisarek's contract, but if you don't buyout Liles and later decide you need to, doubling the remaining years on the contract really hurts. Case in point? We're still paying Darcy Tucker next season.

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05-17-2013, 12:25 AM
  #88
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Top 4 dman don't grow on trees. Does anyone know any possible UFA or RFA we might take a chance at for D?

Otherwise we might just stay pad and roll with

Dion (less PP time, need to step up at the physical department) Gardiner (more PP time) (just play 2 damn lefties)
Franson (no reason not to bring him back) Gunnar
Fraser/Holzer/Paul Ranger Lilies/Ranger

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05-17-2013, 12:46 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by NigelTufnel View Post
Here's what I'd do....

Buy out Liles and Grabo.

Let MacArthur and O'Byrne walk.

Re-sign Bozak and any other FA's.

Throw some money at Clarkson if he makes it to free agency. Also, target some teams up against the cap to see if there's a buy low situation to take advantage of.

I don't think we need to be trading major pieces or anything like that, but I believe Nonis usual patient approach will be the right thing to do here.

I think the guys I mentioned letting go can be replaced internally, and as I said if there's a situation to bring in an upgrade, then you do it. If not, I'm fine with seeing what Gardiner can do with a full, healthy season. Ditto for Colborne and Frattin.
As much as I'd like to see Grabo gone, I know it won't happen, as it would cost the Leafs somewhere in the ball park of $14 million to buy him out. Most likely they will let O'byrne and Mac walk and Komi/Liles will be bought out(if they need the cap space).

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Old
05-17-2013, 09:15 AM
  #90
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That's the way I look at the Komi situation as well . I'd rather buy him out and take the short minimal cap hit than use an amnesty on him .

JML and Grabo's deals are more troublesome to move off our books and i'd rather save our 2 free buyouts to use on them if that becomes the only way to move them .
Thinking the same.

The other option would be to take on a worse contract and an asset in exchange for Komi. The poorer team can then spend "only" $2.4M to buy out Komi, while the Leafs maybe spend $7-8M to buy out the player with the worse contract, but retain an asset.

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05-17-2013, 09:36 AM
  #91
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#1 is the biggest task. Another year without a #1 C won't be the end of the world.
This.
I'd like our D to look like this:

Phanoof - Defensive D
Gunner - Gardiner
Franson - Fraser
Liles/Holzer/Obyrnes

That's a respectable defense.
I'd prefer to move liles as I like him and thinks he deserves better than the press box.
Maybe him + a pick/prospect for that elusive top pair d d.
Stephan Robidas?

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05-17-2013, 09:49 AM
  #92
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Everyone is talking about buying guys out and freeing up cap space. That is all fine and dandy if there is some strategy behind it. Who exactly are we going to be spending this money on? I hope the plan isn't to throw 5 mil at Bozak, 8 mil at Kessel and 7 at Phaneuf.

There isn't a whole lot of UFAs out there

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05-17-2013, 09:54 AM
  #93
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Everyone is talking about buying guys out and freeing up cap space. That is all fine and dandy if there is some strategy behind it. Who exactly are we going to be spending this money on? I hope the plan isn't to throw 5 mil at Bozak, 8 mil at Kessel and 7 at Phaneuf.

There isn't a whole lot of UFAs out there
I'd like to see Kessel take a 7 yr 50 mil deal and Phanoof to take a 7 year 42 mil deal.
Bozak can have 4.5 or GTFO.

I'm not sure if they'd take those extensions, but they'd be nice.

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05-17-2013, 11:21 AM
  #94
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Grabovski and perhaps Liles are tradeable despite their contracts.

Remember, some teams need to get to the cap floor. The Islanders acquired Tim Thomas this year just to get to the floor.

If an aging headcase goalie who isn't going to play can get traded then I fail to see how a decent centreman and decent puck moving defencemen are untradeable.

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05-17-2013, 11:26 AM
  #95
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Grabovski and perhaps Liles are tradeable despite their contracts.

Remember, some teams need to get to the cap floor. The Islanders acquired Tim Thomas this year just to get to the floor.

If an aging headcase goalie who isn't going to play can get traded then I fail to see how a decent centreman and decent puck moving defencemen are untradeable.
There are lots of teams that would want Grabo, but only at a lower cap-hit.

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05-17-2013, 11:27 AM
  #96
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Grabovski and perhaps Liles are tradeable despite their contracts.

Remember, some teams need to get to the cap floor. The Islanders acquired Tim Thomas this year just to get to the floor.

If an aging headcase goalie who isn't going to play can get traded then I fail to see how a decent centreman and decent puck moving defencemen are untradeable.
Big difference in your example is that Thomas was under contract, but suspended for not playing and therefore was not getting paid. He was simply a Cap hit with no $$$ attached.

Someone has to pay Grabs $5.5 mil and Liles almost $4 mil when acquired.

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05-17-2013, 11:28 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Billy6 View Post
Grabovski and perhaps Liles are tradeable despite their contracts.

Remember, some teams need to get to the cap floor. The Islanders acquired Tim Thomas this year just to get to the floor.

If an aging headcase goalie who isn't going to play can get traded then I fail to see how a decent centreman and decent puck moving defencemen are untradeable.
I don't think the Isles actually had to pay Thomas though.

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05-17-2013, 11:49 AM
  #98
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There are lots of teams that would want Grabo, but only at a lower cap-hit.
Its the money not the cap the biggest problem .

While having a high cap at $5.5 mil his actual salary that needs to be paid is actually $6 mil for the next 2 seasons.

So a team playing nearing the cap floor wouldn't have an issue with the Cap figure, but they have to pay him $6 mil is where the biggest problem lies for teams playing on a budget. Case in point the NYI playing at the cap floor are paying their star center Tavares less money and he has the same cap hit as Grabovski at $5.5 mil. Tough sell in trade to convince a cap floor team to take Grabovski at that price.

Conversely good teams playing near the Cap ceiling and able to afford the $$ can't find room for a player that produces at Grabovski's level and accept that cap hit.

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05-17-2013, 01:47 PM
  #99
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Big difference in your example is that Thomas was under contract, but suspended for not playing and therefore was not getting paid. He was simply a Cap hit with no $$$ attached.

Someone has to pay Grabs $5.5 mil and Liles almost $4 mil when acquired.
Good point. I didn't consider that.

Still though, I think Grabovski is tradeable. Even if the Leafs have to retain some of the salary, a potential number two centre with 25 - 30 goal potential has to have some value even if he is coming off of a bad year.

I would just have a problem with the Leafs buying him out and then see another team pick him up and have him have a bounce back year which he is fully capable of.

And knowing our luck that's exactly what would happen.

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05-17-2013, 01:50 PM
  #100
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Good point. I didn't consider that.

Still though, I think Grabovski is tradeable. Even if the Leafs have to retain some of the salary, a potential number two centre with 25 - 30 goal potential has to have some value even if he is coming off of a bad year.

I would just have a problem with the Leafs buying him out and then see another team pick him up and have him have a bounce back year which he is fully capable of.

And knowing our luck that's exactly what would happen.
Personally, I wouldn't spend too much time worrying over a Grabovski buyout.

Financially it just doesn't make a lot of sense to pay him over $14 mil to go away and then pay someone else to take his place. That is a double whammy financially..

Grabovski and the Leafs are hoping for a bounce back year next season, and hopefully Grabs playoffs is a spring board to getting his confidence back. Trading him based on his contract and off season would be difficult at best, even if that was the preferred choice of Leafs management.

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