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Old
05-17-2013, 06:58 AM
  #201
dmanfish90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
good, then he guy is ready for North american rink sized NHL action then...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
you know I was replying to someone who suggested Nygren would make the jump to the NHL (the "bigs") as soon as next season, right ?
LOL

You

Quote:
ets wait till he play ONE pro game please...
Railman

Quote:
?

Nygren spent the last two seasons in the SEL. He is playing professional hockey.
You

Quote:
do i REALLY need to explain my post ? seriously ?
Me

Quote:
Yeah I think you do. Are you saying the the Swedish Elite League is amateur hockey? Because if it's not amateur (aka CHL, NCAA, etc.) then it's considered to be professional hockey (AHL, NHL, SEL, KHL, Swiss A, etc.). Now there are various levels of professional hockey (minors, majors like NHL, etc.) but SEL is professional hockey.
You

Quote:
good, then he guy is ready for North american rink sized NHL action then...
Nice comeback. 2 different posters mention the fact that the SEL is professional hockey and you make a wise-ass remark about the rink-size. Genius...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
It's hard to have an intelligent discussion with someone who says "DD gotta go at any cost". That is a quick way to run the team into the ground and then not have to worry about having size for the playoffs because you don't even make the playoffs.

As MB said it's not a team full of Jones and Wards that will win anything, you need balance. I see 5'8-5'11" guys making an impact every night in the playoffs yet our genius fanbase thinks we have to get rid of all our sub 6' players. Didn't Marchand score 2 last night? I'm pretty sure guys like Marchand and Recchi were playing wing on Boston's best line in the final 2 years ago when they beat Vancouver. Ottawa beat us motly with small guys(Kalrsson Alfredsson Turris Pageau Conacher Condra) scoring.

Some want to get rid of Diaz yet you look at LA and Voynov who is the same size has 3 game winners already...
100%. People, LAK does have some smurfy-ish players as do PIT (LAK: Richardson, Richards, Voynov, etc. PIT: Kennedy, Cooke, Jokinen). The problem with our team is we have 4 guys under 5'10" (Gionta, Desharnais, Bouillon, Gallagher). This is toooooo many. The sooner we all realize we need to minimize our sub-6 foot players, the better off this board will be.

After next year or at the deadline, get rid of Gionta, Bouillon. We don't need them. Especially considering we won't need them for the playoffs. The only problem is teams won't want them for the playoffs so we're sorta screwed.

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Old
05-17-2013, 07:03 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post

After next year or at the deadline, get rid of Gionta, Bouillon. We don't need them. Especially considering we won't need them for the playoffs. The only problem is teams won't want them for the playoffs so we're sorta screwed.
Gionta will get offers for a playoff run.
Bouillon will probably retire after next season, and besides, we need a 7th D-Men, something he can certainly do.

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Old
05-17-2013, 07:16 AM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
People I'd like to see go:

1) Gionta - but I am quite certain he's going nowhere. TRADE

2) DD - I was a big fan of David but these past playoffs showed me that he needs to be insulated by two big, bruising bone-crunching, forwards and this team doesn't have enough to spare. So it came down to keeping Gallagher or DD. Gally showed me more and I want only one smurf in our lineup. TRADE

3) Ryder - I got a love-hate relationship with this player. Right now after the putrid playoffs he had, I'm in my hate cycle and don't feel like paying him the term & money he'll expect. DON"T SIGN.

4) Kaberle - From the press conference sounds like MB still has hopes of trading him for a smelly jock strap but I'm 99.99% certain he'll be BOUGHT OUT

5) Webber - Not even worth explaining. TRADE

6) Diaz - Besides Emelin & Tinordi, we need another tough, stay-at-home, crease clearing defenceman. It came down to Gorges or Diaz. I opted for player 61. TRADE

The uncertain ones:

1) Moen - if I could get a good deal I would unload him. He no longer wants to play his game

2) Halpern - if he's not expecting too much I would keep him

3) Bouillon - I'd slot him as our 7th d.

4) Drewiske - I really didn't see enough of him & I don't know if he would appreciate being d #8.

The far fetch

1) Shop Price. See what his market value is and at the same time see what an up & coming goalie (Bernier for example) costs. If we come way ahead I'd go for it. An example of what I mean:

Price for a top 3 pick (would mean Mackinnon or Drouin), a 2nd rounder this year and a prospect

Bernier for Kristo + spare change.


I would jump on this trade. Many posters keep saying we got a lousy defence. I don't think so. I think our defence is in the top 7. We just need one gritty player back there. We just had an inconsistent goalie who made our D look bad.

But this ain't gonna happen. that's why I placed it in the far-fetch.

So I'd see our team like this

Bourque Pleks ******
Pacioretty Eller Gally
Prust Chuckie ******
Moen White/Halpern Armstrong

Markov Emelin
Gorges Subban
Tinordi *******
Bouillon

Price
Budaj

We need 2 forwards and one defenceman. Both of the forwards would have to be grittier than the three we let go. But those two would have to add grit and power to our forward lineup. The one D - well I explained above what I'd expect.
First off, I'd rather get a bag of pucks for Kaberle then a smelly jock strap. Can't really use the latter...

Secondly, what's your issue with Diaz. As a #4 defenceman during the first 19 GP before getting injured, he had scored 13 PTS. He's not a smurf, he's not huge either. Almost 6'0" and is adjusting to the NHL game quite well. I disagree in trading him. In spite of that, I could see us trading Gorges if not for his contract. But because that's now dead, Diaz needs to get his value up this year so if we do trade him, we get some good value (a bigger forward or a bigger defenceman that has some speed).

Thirdly, how do you know Moen doesn't want to "play his game"? What are you basing this on? Moen was never a consistently physical player. He is what he is.

Fourthly, those proposals are soo far-fetched it's not even funny. Price's value, I'd say, is a 2nd rounder and maybe a low-level prospect. Had we traded him post 2011-12 for COL/TB/FLA 1st rounder, that I could see happening as COL did it for 2012 draft to get Varlamov. But because COL/TB/FLA don't have any more issues in goaltending (Varlamov for COL, Bishop for TB, and Markstrom coming up for FLA) this trade never happens. As for Bernier, it would probably cost Beaulieu/Collberg and like a 3rd rounder for him or a 2nd rounder and like Pateryn/Kristo/whichever 2nd/3rd line potential guys.

This is not the way to go to get a goalie. We can't be trading away prospects because MB wants younger, bigger guys and will get 6 more hopefully quality guys through the first 3 rounds of this year's draft.

Guys, I know a lot of us disagree on this, but Carey Price is a top 5 goalie in the NHL, this past year he just hasn't played like one. We need to change the team in front of him for him to be successful. Our defensive play was terrible down the stretch and so was his play as well, but how can you expect your goalie to bail you out all the time when you play like that defensively...?

What do people think of the following options as the 8th defenseman:

O'Byrne
Hannan
Eaton
Woywitka
Barker

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Old
05-17-2013, 07:51 AM
  #204
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
100%. People, LAK does have some smurfy-ish players as do PIT (LAK: Richardson, Richards, Voynov, etc. PIT: Kennedy, Cooke, Jokinen). The problem with our team is we have 4 guys under 5'10" (Gionta, Desharnais, Bouillon, Gallagher). This is toooooo many. The sooner we all realize we need to minimize our sub-6 foot players, the better off this board will be.

After next year or at the deadline, get rid of Gionta, Bouillon. We don't need them. Especially considering we won't need them for the playoffs. The only problem is teams won't want them for the playoffs so we're sorta screwed.
Bouillon and Gionta will move on on their own going forward. I don't think that needs "adressing" in any way. Guys like Beaulieu and Tinordi will replace Bouillon and possibly Markov with just natural progression. Emelin will return and be a force physically again. Long term, size on defense is a non issue.

Eller next year should get at least the same ice time as Desharnais if not more, this is not something that needs to be addressed, it will help naturally. We already have a good mix of size and skill up front. Having Eller and Pacioretty healthy at playoff time would have made a definite impact. The big need is more size/physicality in the 3rd and 4th lines. That's where Ottawa got their physical play...not their top 2 lines.

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Old
05-17-2013, 08:17 AM
  #205
dmanfish90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Bouillon and Gionta will move on on their own going forward. I don't think that needs "adressing" in any way. Guys like Beaulieu and Tinordi will replace Bouillon and possibly Markov with just natural progression. Emelin will return and be a force physically again. Long term, size on defense is a non issue.

Eller next year should get at least the same ice time as Desharnais if not more, this is not something that needs to be addressed, it will help naturally. We already have a good mix of size and skill up front. Having Eller and Pacioretty healthy at playoff time would have made a definite impact. The big need is more size/physicality in the 3rd and 4th lines. That's where Ottawa got their physical play...not their top 2 lines.
Maybe you're right. Looking at physicality/height:

Emelin: 6'2", physical player
Tinordi: 6'6", physical player
Subban: 6'0", can be physical, all around defenseman, does pretty much everything
Diaz: 5'11", not physical at all
Gorges: 5'11", can be physical, usually isn't, good defensively (BS, stick checking, etc.)
Beaulieau: 6'2", has very little physical expect right now (i could be wrong, but i just see him as a PMD).

I think we could be a more physical team if we trade Diaz over the next two-three years. We have a PMD in Subban, then we have a LH PMD in Beaulieu who will replace Marky Mark. I think we trade Diaz for a Marc Methot type player and maybe get a low draft pick (considering Diaz could play really well as a PMD, we could keep him, but why do we need 3 PMDs? They're more valuable and could get a nice return should Diaz continue progressing) down the line.

It didn't happen this year down the stretch when DD was playing like utter crap and Eller was playing amazing. What makes you think it'll change next year when DD's new contract begins. I am skeptical about this and equally as frustrated should this continue.

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Old
05-17-2013, 08:28 AM
  #206
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Desharnais
Gorges
Diaz

See what you can get. I love Gorges but you have to give something to get something. We have to rebuild our defense. Get them playoff ready.

Subban
Markov
Tinordi
Emelin
Pateryn
Bouillion

Try to get a #2 or #3 with size to round out that group. That would be a pretty good playoff ready group. Finally give Price some help.

Smid?

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Old
05-17-2013, 08:40 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
LOL

You



Railman



You



Me



You



Nice comeback. 2 different posters mention the fact that the SEL is professional hockey and you make a wise-ass remark about the rink-size. Genius...



100%. People, LAK does have some smurfy-ish players as do PIT (LAK: Richardson, Richards, Voynov, etc. PIT: Kennedy, Cooke, Jokinen). The problem with our team is we have 4 guys under 5'10" (Gionta, Desharnais, Bouillon, Gallagher). This is toooooo many. The sooner we all realize we need to minimize our sub-6 foot players, the better off this board will be.

After next year or at the deadline, get rid of Gionta, Bouillon. We don't need them. Especially considering we won't need them for the playoffs. The only problem is teams won't want them for the playoffs so we're sorta screwed.
That 3 at 5'8 and under.

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Old
05-17-2013, 08:44 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Maybe you're right. Looking at physicality/height:

Emelin: 6'2", physical player
Tinordi: 6'6", physical player
Subban: 6'0", can be physical, all around defenseman, does pretty much everything
Diaz: 5'11", not physical at all
Gorges: 5'11", can be physical, usually isn't, good defensively (BS, stick checking, etc.)
Beaulieau: 6'2", has very little physical expect right now (i could be wrong, but i just see him as a PMD).

I think we could be a more physical team if we trade Diaz over the next two-three years. We have a PMD in Subban, then we have a LH PMD in Beaulieu who will replace Marky Mark. I think we trade Diaz for a Marc Methot type player and maybe get a low draft pick (considering Diaz could play really well as a PMD, we could keep him, but why do we need 3 PMDs? They're more valuable and could get a nice return should Diaz continue progressing) down the line.

It didn't happen this year down the stretch when DD was playing like utter crap and Eller was playing amazing. What makes you think it'll change next year when DD's new contract begins. I am skeptical about this and equally as frustrated should this continue.
Gorges is 6'1" not 5'11", not sure where you get your measurements but taht one is clearly off.

I wouldn't say DD was "utter crap", he went 2-7-9 the last 4 weeks over 15 games. I agree Eller should be getting a bigger piece of the pie though.

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Old
05-17-2013, 10:16 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Clowe isn't a carbon copy of Lucic. Lucic can skate pretty well, Clowe is slow as molasses, this is a big issue, because when you face top teams in the playoffs they can skate and he can't keep up. That's a big reason why San Jose traded him. Prust has no problem keeping up with the play, plus his cap hit was 2.5 mil, Clowe will cost something like 4.5 mil/year if not more.
But Clowe was one of SJ best forwards in the playoffs every season? Lucic can skate?

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05-17-2013, 10:20 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
It's hard to have an intelligent discussion with someone who says "DD gotta go at any cost". That is a quick way to run the team into the ground and then not have to worry about having size for the playoffs because you don't even make the playoffs.

As MB said it's not a team full of Jones and Wards that will win anything, you need balance. I see 5'8-5'11" guys making an impact every night in the playoffs yet our genius fanbase thinks we have to get rid of all our sub 6' players. Didn't Marchand score 2 last night? I'm pretty sure guys like Marchand and Recchi were playing wing on Boston's best line in the final 2 years ago when they beat Vancouver. Ottawa beat us motly with small guys(Kalrsson Alfredsson Turris Pageau Conacher Condra) scoring.

Some want to get rid of Diaz yet you look at LA and Voynov who is the same size has 3 game winners already...
Marchand and Rechhi played like they we're 6'4 because they litteraly have "6'4" Lucic and 6'9 Chara backing them up.

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05-17-2013, 10:23 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk4habs View Post
But Clowe was one of SJ best forwards in the playoffs every season? Lucic can skate?
Clowe is an affective player aside the scoring sheet. This year has been a hard one for him but I think he can bounce back to 15-25 goals scorer that hits, fights for his teamates. Is slow and not sure what shape he's in.....or if his body breaking down. Give him a physical and go from there. But before anything, would Clowe want to sign here?

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05-17-2013, 10:29 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Maybe you're right. Looking at physicality/height:

Emelin: 6'2", physical player
Tinordi: 6'6", physical player
Subban: 6'0", can be physical, all around defenseman, does pretty much everything
Diaz: 5'11", not physical at all
Gorges: 5'11", can be physical, usually isn't, good defensively (BS, stick checking, etc.)
Beaulieau: 6'2", has very little physical expect right now (i could be wrong, but i just see him as a PMD).

I think we could be a more physical team if we trade Diaz over the next two-three years. We have a PMD in Subban, then we have a LH PMD in Beaulieu who will replace Marky Mark. I think we trade Diaz for a Marc Methot type player and maybe get a low draft pick (considering Diaz could play really well as a PMD, we could keep him, but why do we need 3 PMDs? They're more valuable and could get a nice return should Diaz continue progressing) down the line.

It didn't happen this year down the stretch when DD was playing like utter crap and Eller was playing amazing. What makes you think it'll change next year when DD's new contract begins. I am skeptical about this and equally as frustrated should this continue.
The six guys you list will give the Habs a damn good D in the next couple of years. If Beaulieu develops well and uses his size better, we'll have plenty of size and physicality. There's no reason to trade any of these guys, unless a great deal comes along. In fact, Diaz, while being the smallest (though hardly small) is probably the smartest. Despite a few shaky games after coming back from a long injury, he's a terrific passer, skater and shooter. Yeah, he's a PMD, but he's solid on the PP and PK and rarely gets caught in our zone. You don't ditch players like this just because they're less physical - especially since we'll have bigger, tougher guys playing alongside him (again, unless there's a great deal for him).

I really like our D moving forward, BUT I'm concerned we'll take a temporary step back as Markov's role decreases and Tinordi and Beaulieu's roles increase. There will be a learning curve for the young guys, and I expect some growing pains until they gain some experience and confidence. A lot depends on how well Markov holds up.

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05-17-2013, 10:30 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk4habs View Post
But Clowe was one of SJ best forwards in the playoffs every season? Lucic can skate?
The pre-injury Clowe had a lot of value. The current chronically-injured Clowe is a huge question mark, and an expensive one.

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05-17-2013, 10:46 AM
  #214
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Quote:
Maybe you're right. Looking at physicality/height:

Emelin: 6'2", physical player
Tinordi: 6'6", physical player
Subban: 6'0", can be physical, all around defenseman, does pretty much everything
Diaz: 5'11", not physical at all
Gorges: 5'11", can be physical, usually isn't, good defensively (BS, stick checking, etc.)
Beaulieau: 6'2", has very little physical expect right now (i could be wrong, but i just see him as a PMD).

I think we could be a more physical team if we trade Diaz over the next two-three years. We have a PMD in Subban, then we have a LH PMD in Beaulieu who will replace Marky Mark. I think we trade Diaz for a Marc Methot type player and maybe get a low draft pick (considering Diaz could play really well as a PMD, we could keep him, but why do we need 3 PMDs? They're more valuable and could get a nice return should Diaz continue progressing) down the line.

It didn't happen this year down the stretch when DD was playing like utter crap and Eller was playing amazing. What makes you think it'll change next year when DD's new contract begins. I am skeptical about this and equally as frustrated should this continue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
The six guys you list will give the Habs a damn good D in the next couple of years. If Beaulieu develops well and uses his size better, we'll have plenty of size and physicality. There's no reason to trade any of these guys, unless a great deal comes along. In fact, Diaz, while being the smallest (though hardly small) is probably the smartest. Despite a few shaky games after coming back from a long injury, he's a terrific passer, skater and shooter. Yeah, he's a PMD, but he's solid on the PP and PK and rarely gets caught in our zone. You don't ditch players like this just because they're less physical - especially since we'll have bigger, tougher guys playing alongside him (again, unless there's a great deal for him).

I really like our D moving forward, BUT I'm concerned we'll take a temporary step back as Markov's role decreases and Tinordi and Beaulieu's roles increase. There will be a learning curve for the young guys, and I expect some growing pains until they gain some experience and confidence. A lot depends on how well Markov holds up.
I agree he is one of the smarter guys, but here's my problem with our defense in general: defensively speaking, it's not as good as other years that I've seen. Let's also look at the depth of each defensiveman:

Subban: A #1 defenseman on any team.
Markov: : A former #1 defenseman that due to injuries, is slower, was bad defensively this year, and is going to run out of gas due to injuries/age. A #3-4 defenseman at the least a #2 at the very best (won't happen next year, happened this year).
Emelin: A #3-4 defenseman on most teams as a hard-hitting defensive defenseman
Gorges: A #5-6 depth defenseman on most teams as a shot-blocking and stick-checking and the occasional hitting defensive defenseman
Diaz: A #3-4 defensmean on most teams as a solid puck-moving defenseman and a good defensive defenseman. Essentially he's a solid two-way defenseman.
Tinordi: A #6 young defenseman right now, will develop into a #3-4 hard-hitting, shot-blocking, stick-checking, clearing the opponents the **** out of the crease defenseman (extremely valuable to me)
Bouillon: A #6-7 defenseman that's too small for my liking, he's a good two-way defenseman, hits, plays well defensively and can handle himself in the offensive zone. Not as good as Diaz, but good for 6th-7th defenseman.

The problem with our defence is that the person who plays with PK isn't "worthy" of the spot in the sense that they're playing above their peg rate (Markov this year exceeded my expectation and did, but only at the very end of the year were they paired ES). If you trade Diaz for a defensive #2 specialist or strong two-way player like...a Dennis Seidenberg or like a Paul Martin or (dear god I hate you Bob Gainey) Ryan McDonagh, we would be perfect on the back end. I think we're missing 1 piece, and the best way to go about it is by trading Diaz down the line.

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05-17-2013, 10:54 AM
  #215
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Everyone should agree with this:

Kaberle --> Out (Why did we get this guy for Spacegoat? Had a couple of months left on his contract... Why did you do it Gauthier? WHY?)

Moen --> Out (Disappointment all year long. What happened to him? He looked even slower, less physical, less effective in the 4th line role this year... Fed up with him.)

Desharnais --> Out (I admit it, I'm still not over our horrendous playoffs this year and Canada's loss yesterday got me even more down, but four more years of Desharnais? At $3,5M? F me! There is no way in hell Bergevin hasn't facepalmed over this signing. He might be useful in the regular season, but I can't imagine a different scenario than this year's come playoff hockey with respect to this player. It`ll be a miracle if he`s gone before next year`s start of the season, so he`ll be back sadly.)

Weber --> Out (There's nothing more to add.)

Drewiske --> Out (Gone as fast as he came here.)

Ryder --> ???? (I think a question mark characterizes him perfectly.)

Gionta --> Last Year (One last year, don't do anything fancy Bergevin. Don't do a Spacegoat type of trade, just let him be. Please.)

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05-17-2013, 11:00 AM
  #216
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by PhysicX View Post
Everyone should agree with this:

Kaberle --> Out (Why did we get this guy for Spacegoat? Had a couple of months left on his contract... Why did you do it Gauthier? WHY?)

Moen --> Out (Disappointment all year long. What happened to him? He looked even slower, less physical, less effective in the 4th line role this year... Fed up with him.)

Desharnais --> Out (I admit it, I'm still not over our horrendous playoffs this year and Canada's loss yesterday got me even more down, but four more years of Desharnais? At $3,5M? F me! There is no way in hell Bergevin hasn't facepalmed over this signing. He might be useful in the regular season, but I can't imagine a different scenario than this year's come playoff hockey with respect to this player. It`ll be a miracle if he`s gone before next year`s start of the season, so he`ll be back sadly.)

Weber --> Out (There's nothing more to add.)

Drewiske --> Out (Gone as fast as he came here.)

Ryder --> ???? (I think a question mark characterizes him perfectly.)

Gionta --> Last Year (One last year, don't do anything fancy Bergevin. Don't do a Spacegoat type of trade, just let him be. Please.)
What's the obsession with dumping Desharnais now, he's better than what we can sign for 3.5 mil. The playoffs showed Galchenyuk isn't ready for the additional defensive responsibility of playing center. The smart move is to keep Desharnais till Glachenyuk is ready then trade him for an asset(s). Why is taht so hard for "supposedly" smart hockey fans?


Last edited by Monctonscout: 05-17-2013 at 11:59 AM.
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05-17-2013, 11:20 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Fourthly, those proposals are soo far-fetched it's not even funny. Price's value, I'd say, is a 2nd rounder and maybe a low-level prospect.

Guys, I know a lot of us disagree on this, but Carey Price is a top 5 goalie in the NHL,
Contradicting yourself in the same post. Thanks. A long post but at least it saved me from jumping from one post to another.

If Price is a top 5 goalie he's worth more than what you suggest; however, if he's worth what you say then he's obviously not a top 5 goalie.

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05-17-2013, 11:27 AM
  #218
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What's the obsession with dumping Desharnais now,

My obsession is not with DD. It's with Gionta, DD & Gally on the top 3 lines. Of those three I prefer to have only one. And my choice is Gally.

I was big fan of DD - maybe a little too big of a fan. I was seduced by his vision & hockey sense. These playoffs showed me that if he doesn't play with players that can create space & time for him, DD will continue to perform like he did this year: good in the regular season & a washout in the playoffs.

You can't have both Gally & DD on the same team - we'll make no mention of Gionta. So that's why I would trade DD.

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05-17-2013, 11:30 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
What's the obsession with dumping Desharnais now, he's better than what we can sign for 3.5 mil. The playoffs showed Galchenyuk isn't ready for the additional defensive responsibility of playing center. The smart move is to keep Desharnais till Glachenyuk is ready then trade him for an asset(s). Why is taht so hard for "supposedly" smart hocjey fans?
I'd bump Eller up and sign Halpern for the 3rd line.

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Bourque (give Pleks some linemates finally)
Galchenyuk - Eller - Gallagher
Prust - Halpern - Gionta
Moen - White - Dumont

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05-17-2013, 11:30 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Fourthly, those proposals are soo far-fetched it's not even funny. Price's value, I'd say, is a 2nd rounder and maybe a low-level prospect. Had we traded him post 2011-12 for COL/TB/FLA 1st rounder, that I could see happening as COL did it for 2012 draft to get Varlamov. But because COL/TB/FLA don't have any more issues in goaltending (Varlamov for COL, Bishop for TB, and Markstrom coming up for FLA) this trade never happens. As for Bernier, it would probably cost Beaulieu/Collberg and like a 3rd rounder for him or a 2nd rounder and like Pateryn/Kristo/whichever 2nd/3rd line potential guys.

Guys, I know a lot of us disagree on this, but Carey Price is a top 5 goalie in the NHL, this past year he just hasn't played like one. We need to change the team in front of him for him to be successful. Our defensive play was terrible down the stretch and so was his play as well, but how can you expect your goalie to bail you out all the time when you play like that defensively...?
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Contradicting yourself in the same post. Thanks. A long post but at least it saved me from jumping from one post to another.

If Price is a top 5 goalie he's worth more than what you suggest; however, if he's worth what you say then he's obviously not a top 5 goalie.
Way to take my quote out of context.

Just to reiterate, Price is a top 5 goalies, but top 5 goalies sometimes their value increases or decreases depending on their seasons. Rinne, a top 5 goalie, value has somewhat decreased because of his okay/bad season this year. Same thing with Luongo, 2 years ago could have gotten a lot for him. Now not so much (although I think Roberto has played him out of the Top 5, maybe, but used to be one...).

Right now, Carey Price's value is a 2nd round draft pick and a mid-low level prospect.
Carey Price's value after the 2010-11 season and playoffs; 1st round draft pick and a high level prospect or quality roster player (bottom 6th depth).

This was my point, but thanks for only reading part of the paragraph of my entire post. Also you missed "Carey Price is a top 5 goalie, just this year he hasn't played like one". But again, nice job taking my quotes out of context...

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05-17-2013, 11:36 AM
  #221
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Way to take my quote out of context.

Just to reiterate, Price is a top 5 goalies, but top 5 goalies sometimes their value increases or decreases depending on their seasons. Rinne, a top 5 goalie, value has somewhat decreased because of his okay/bad season this year. Same thing with Luongo, 2 years ago could have gotten a lot for him. Now not so much (although I think Roberto has played him out of the Top 5, maybe, but used to be one...).

Right now, Carey Price's value is a 2nd round draft pick and a mid-low level prospect.
Carey Price's value after the 2010-11 season and playoffs; 1st round draft pick and a high level prospect or quality roster player (bottom 6th depth).

This was my point, but thanks for only reading part of the paragraph of my entire post. Also you missed "Carey Price is a top 5 goalie, just this year he hasn't played like one". But again, nice job taking my quotes out of context...
A GM making a trade will look at the fact that Carey's a top 5 goalie and won't be stupid enough to offer a 2nd round draft pick and a mid-low level prospect they have integrity. Worth is whatever someone is willing to offer you- they won't offer that

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05-17-2013, 11:40 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
A GM making a trade will look at the fact that Carey's a top 5 goalie and won't be stupid enough to offer a 2nd round draft pick and a mid-low level prospect they have integrity. Worth is whatever someone is willing to offer you- they won't offer that little haha
They could say well he has underperformed the past couple years (true) and we're not sure if he could perform at a top 5 level, but there is a possiblity he could and a possibility he couldn't.

Hence the 2nd rounder and prospect.

Varlamov for a 1st was a huge overpayment by Colorado.

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05-17-2013, 11:41 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post

Also you missed "Carey Price is a top 5 goalie, just this year he hasn't played like one". But again, nice job taking my quotes out of context...
Look, having one year where you don't play up to your potential shouldn't affect your value as drastically as you claim.

Subconsciously I think you don't really believe that he has had only one bad year.

Anyway, I didn't say we could get a trade of that value. I said IF we shop him and we're offered something along those lines and IF we can get a young goalie on the level of a Bernier for a Kristo + spare change I would jump on it.

I never claimed he was worth that but it's a good way to see if all those other experts are willing to put their money where mouths are when it comes to Price. A few years back Bowman said he would keep Price & trade Halak. i wonder if Bowman or other executives are willing to pay the Price?

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05-17-2013, 11:45 AM
  #224
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They could say well he has underperformed the past couple years (true)
Contradicting yourself again?

You claimed he only had one bad season.

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05-17-2013, 11:52 AM
  #225
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Look, having one year where you don't play up to your potential shouldn't affect your value as drastically as you claim.

Subconsciously I think you don't really believe that he has had only one bad year.

Anyway, I didn't say we could get a trade of that value. I said IF we shop him and we're offered something along those lines and IF we can get a young goalie on the level of a Bernier for a Kristo + spare change I would jump on it.

I never claimed he was worth that but it's a good way to see if all those other experts are willing to put their money where mouths are when it comes to Price. A few years back Bowman said he would keep Price & trade Halak. i wonder if Bowman or other executives are willing to pay the Price?
Bowman wouldn't change his mind. Case in point, look where Halak is now, the #2/possibly #3 goalie in St. Louis.

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Contradicting yourself again?

You claimed he only had one bad season.
I did not contradict myself.

This season he had a bad year/very much underperformed

Year before that, when the team was in shambles, he underperformed because the team in front of him crapped the bed.

Year before that, PLAYED EXTREMELY WELL.

Where did I contradict myself? Explain...

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