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Old
05-17-2013, 12:32 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I agree, the premise is ridiculous. But if it was proposed, Lecavalier would be an idiot not to accept.

He gets the remaining 51 million on his current contract, and then gets to sign a new contract, for more money, with Tampa, over the same time period.

Lecavalier not accepting would be the equivalent of saying No to a raise.
First off if LeCavalier did say waive his NTC to Buffalo and then Bufflo bought him out there would be no guarentee that Vinny would resign with Tampa as any team out there could offer him a better deal then Tampa why so this thread is still stupid and Tampa still would'nt have the cap space for both LeCavalier and Vanek.

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05-17-2013, 12:36 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
No way is this done. Massive overpayments.

Pysyk was a first round a few years ago and the 16th overall this year for a salary dump and #3 pick

LeCav is owed $45M over the next 7 years. This means paying out $30M over 14 years.

$30M + Vanek + Pysyk+ #16 for MacKinnon....what the .....

Why not just buy the pick for #30M and be done.
Technically, its 1 year of Vanek, Pysyk (we have a lot of defensive prospects), the 16th pick, and 30 Mill. For MacKinnon and Connolly.

If Vanek doesnt resign with us then we have to get the best deal we can. This gives us a former 6th overall pick and 3rd overall pick for 2 late first rounders, a rental and cap. You're crazy is you think this is bad for Buffalo.

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05-17-2013, 12:37 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
First off if LeCavalier did say waive his NTC to Buffalo and then Bufflo bought him out there would be no guarentee that Vinny would resign with Tampa as any team out there could offer him a better deal then Tampa why so this thread is still stupid and Tampa still would'nt have the cap space for both LeCavalier and Vanek.
The premise includes Vinny re-signing in Tampa. You can presume that Vinny/Yzerman had a verbal agreement if it makes it easier for you.

And if you are from the area (I am), you know that Vinny would re-sign.

I'm sure they could figure out how to make the Vanek/vinny cap work... Buffalo could retain half of Vanek's cap/salary

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05-17-2013, 12:41 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Why Tampa Does it : Major cap relief, and salary savings

Why Lecavalier does it : He makes MORE money, and stays in Tampa (re-signs there after buyout from Buffalo)

Why Buffalo does it : They spend cash (buyout) to get to the top 3 of the draft for a franchise player

It's really not that hard to follow
Lol Thank you Jame. Im glad there are a couple people here that can see why both teams would do this. Even if its a crazy idea.

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05-17-2013, 12:41 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
The premise includes Vinny re-signing in Tampa. You can presume that Vinny/Yzerman had a verbal agreement if it makes it easier for you.

And if you are from the area (I am), you know that Vinny would re-sign.

I'm sure they could figure out how to make the Vanek/vinny cap work... Buffalo could retain half of Vanek's cap/salary
Right we can agree that Vinny would resign with Tampa Bay. Still dont see how it's a good deal for Buffalo since there the ones that would have to pay Vinny his money $51 mil is alot of money to dish out for a player that Buffalo would never see and I just dont think that Darcy Reiger would do it.

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05-17-2013, 12:44 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
Right we can agree that Vinny would resign with Tampa Bay. Still dont see how it's a good deal for Buffalo since there the ones that would have to pay Vinny his money $51 mil is alot of money to dish out for a player that Buffalo would never see and I just dont think that Darcy Reiger would do it.
Stokes mentioned it - they get MacKinnon with the Bolts pick.

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05-17-2013, 12:44 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
Right we can agree that Vinny would resign with Tampa Bay. Still dont see how it's a good deal for Buffalo since there the ones that would have to pay Vinny his money $51 mil is alot of money to dish out for a player that Buffalo would never see and I just dont think that Darcy Reiger would do it.
It wouldnt be 51 Million, and like I said there are alot of variables on Pegula willing to pay a lump sum and Vinny and Tampa being ok with trading then resigning at a lower cap hit.

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05-17-2013, 12:51 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by tmack224 View Post
It wouldnt be 51 Million, and like I said there are alot of variables on Pegula willing to pay a lump sum and Vinny and Tampa being ok with trading then resigning at a lower cap hit.
it would be 51 million... that's the amount remaining on Vinny's contract

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05-17-2013, 12:52 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
Right we can agree that Vinny would resign with Tampa Bay. Still dont see how it's a good deal for Buffalo since there the ones that would have to pay Vinny his money $51 mil is alot of money to dish out for a player that Buffalo would never see and I just dont think that Darcy Reiger would do it.
It's really about whether Billionaire Terry Pegula would do it.

It would be a bold move to "buy" a franchise player in the draft

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05-17-2013, 12:53 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by tmack224 View Post
It wouldnt be 51 Million, and like I said there are alot of variables on Pegula willing to pay a lump sum and Vinny and Tampa being ok with trading then resigning at a lower cap hit.
Bottom line Tampa Bay trades Vinny to Buffalo and then Buffalo buys out Vinny, Oh well once Tampa Bay trades Vinny to Buffalo Tampa Bay loses any negociation rights they have to Vinny need to learn how buyouts work. FYI LeCavalier is still owed about $45 mil so Buffalo has to pay Vinny that amount. Once Tampa Bay trades Vinny to Buffalo Tampa Bay no longer has any rights to Vinny they gave up those right when they traded him he can still decide to go back to Tampa that's his choice but they could'nt agree on this before hand.

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05-17-2013, 12:56 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
Bottom line Tampa Bay trades Vinny to Buffalo and then Buffalo buys out Vinny, Oh well once Tampa Bay trades Vinny to Buffalo Tampa Bay loses any negociation rights they have to Vinny need to learn how buyouts work. FYI LeCavalier is still owed about $45 mil so Buffalo has to pay Vinny that amount. Once Tampa Bay trades Vinny to Buffalo Tampa Bay no longer has any rights to Vinny they gave up those right when they traded him he can still decide to go back to Tampa that's his choice but they could'nt agree on this before hand.
sure they could

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05-17-2013, 12:57 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
it would be 51 million... that's the amount remaining on Vinny's contract
So when you buy a player out isn't only a percentage of the remaining contract?

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05-17-2013, 12:57 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
Bottom line Tampa Bay trades Vinny to Buffalo and then Buffalo buys out Vinny, Oh well once Tampa Bay trades Vinny to Buffalo Tampa Bay loses any negociation rights they have to Vinny need to learn how buyouts work. FYI LeCavalier is still owed about $45 mil so Buffalo has to pay Vinny that amount. Once Tampa Bay trades Vinny to Buffalo Tampa Bay no longer has any rights to Vinny they gave up those right when they traded him he can still decide to go back to Tampa that's his choice but they could'nt agree on this before hand.
They could agree in principle, but nothing official, that is correct.

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05-17-2013, 12:59 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
It's really about whether Billionaire Terry Pegula would do it.

It would be a bold move to "buy" a franchise player in the draft
That's my question why would he dole out $51 Mil to buyouy Vinny and get nothing in return oh yeah they get Tampa Bays 3rd and a good player out of it but bottom line I still dont see why Buffalo would do such a thing either team for that matter. I'll be the first one to agree that Vinnys contract sucks and it will be even worse in about 3 or 4 years when Stamkos starts looking at Crosby money or maybe even more.

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05-17-2013, 12:59 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by tmack224 View Post
So when you buy a player out isn't only a percentage of the remaining contract?
the player gets all the money in the contract (to my knowledge)

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05-17-2013, 01:02 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by tmack224 View Post
Technically, its 1 year of Vanek, Pysyk (we have a lot of defensive prospects), the 16th pick, and 30 Mill. For MacKinnon and Connolly.

If Vanek doesnt resign with us then we have to get the best deal we can. This gives us a former 6th overall pick and 3rd overall pick for 2 late first rounders, a rental and cap. You're crazy is you think this is bad for Buffalo.
stop it with the new car smell.....MacKinnon =/= Crosby.

I'd rather trade Vanek for 2 young prospects + a 1st than do this deal.

I dont mind doing the LeCav buyout...but that is alot to give up. that buyout is alot of money.

Its also uncertainty if a team that acquires a player in June could then buy him out or does he have to be on Bufalos roster u ntil september or more likely June 2014.

My counter: LeCav buyout + 3rd overall for 16th overall.

i am not trading Pysyk just so that forces me to draft a Dman at #8.

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05-17-2013, 01:02 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
That's my question why would he dole out $51 Mil to buyouy Vinny and get nothing in return oh yeah they get Tampa Bays 3rd and a good player out of it but bottom line I still dont see why Buffalo would do such a thing either team for that matter. I'll be the first one to agree that Vinnys contract sucks and it will be even worse in about 3 or 4 years when Stamkos starts looking at Crosby money or maybe even more.
Personally, I think the bones of the deal make sense for Tampa even without Vinny re-signing.

That contract is going to be a major hinderance for Tampa, and the amnesty period is only this offseason and next... after that, if Tampa hasn't done something about the Vinny contract, they are saddled with that horrendous cap number for years... and if Vinny retires early Tampa is going to get slammed with Cap Recapture charges (you probably want to google that)

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05-17-2013, 01:06 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
the player gets all the money in the contract (to my knowledge)
The buy out formula is:

T=total amount owed
Y=years remaining

Annual per year payment is= 2T/3 evenly over 2y years.

He is owed around $45M for 7 years...this means he would be paid $30M over 14 years....so around $2.15M per year

This is the same as a routine buyout...just under the amnesty buyout it doesnt show on the cap.

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05-17-2013, 01:09 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
The buy out formula is:

T=total amount owed
Y=years remaining

Annual per year payment is= 2T/3 evenly over 2y years.

He is owed around $45M for 7 years...this means he would be paid $30M over 14 years....so around $2.15M per year

This is the same as a routine buyout...just under the amnesty buyout it doesnt show on the cap.
thanks, i thought that was the traditional buy out formula and the amnesty buyout was paid in full

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05-17-2013, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
it would be 51 million... that's the amount remaining on Vinny's contract
LeCav is owed: $10M, $10M, $10M, $8.5M, $4M, $1.5M, $1.0M over his last 7 years.

This is $45M for 7 years.

a buy out is 2/3 of that ---$30M paid out over 2*7=14 years.

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05-17-2013, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Personally, I think the bones of the deal make sense for Tampa even without Vinny re-signing.

That contract is going to be a major hinderance for Tampa, and the amnesty period is only this offseason and next... after that, if Tampa hasn't done something about the Vinny contract, they are saddled with that horrendous cap number for years... and if Vinny retires early Tampa is going to get slammed with Cap Recapture charges (you probably want to google that)
Your quite correct Tampa Bay will have to do something about Vinnys contract in the next year or so and like i stated before what are they going to do when it's time to resign Stamkos In another 3 years or so and he wants any where from $9mil-$10mil a year on top of that bad LeCavalier contract. Looking at Capgeek with out any buyouts Tampa Bay is going to be hurting these next couple of years.

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05-17-2013, 01:15 PM
  #72
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stop it with the new car smell.....MacKinnon =/= Crosby.

I'd rather trade Vanek for 2 young prospects + a 1st than do this deal.

I dont mind doing the LeCav buyout...but that is alot to give up. that buyout is alot of money.

Its also uncertainty if a team that acquires a player in June could then buy him out or does he have to be on Bufalos roster u ntil september or more likely June 2014.

My counter: LeCav buyout + 3rd overall for 16th overall.

i am not trading Pysyk just so that forces me to draft a Dman at #8.
Never said MacKinnon was Crosby.

Ill take MacKinnon and Connolly any day of the week for this offer. Vanek has 1 year left on his contract. He is not resigning with Buffalo if we go rebuild. You have to get the best deal you can for him. No team will give up a player of MacKinnon's Caliber for him. Adding in Pysyk and he 16th along with money and we get Connolly as well.

Your acting like Connolly is just a throw in. He was the 6th overall pick just 2 years ago...

What do you think we can get for Vanek alone? So i can see how you value him.

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05-17-2013, 01:16 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
the player gets all the money in the contract (to my knowledge)
2 thirds the salary but double the length, so 2.1 million until 2027 (no cap hit with compliance buyout)

http://www.capgeek.com/buyout-calculator/?player_id=884

I'm against the idea of taking on ridiculous contracts to help other teams. Sabres would still be paying LeCavelier after MacKinnon was gone

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05-17-2013, 01:29 PM
  #74
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Honestly... I've seen worse deals. I'd be pretty reluctant, but that is a lot of salary being eaten up. Plus I don't want to give up our pick

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05-17-2013, 02:32 PM
  #75
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Never said MacKinnon was Crosby.

Ill take MacKinnon and Connolly any day of the week for this offer. Vanek has 1 year left on his contract. He is not resigning with Buffalo if we go rebuild. You have to get the best deal you can for him. No team will give up a player of MacKinnon's Caliber for him. Adding in Pysyk and he 16th along with money and we get Connolly as well.

Your acting like Connolly is just a throw in. He was the 6th overall pick just 2 years ago...

What do you think we can get for Vanek alone? So i can see how you value him.
I have sad n other threads that they be able t get at least what Pominville brough f they eat half the salary.

Personally I'd prefer to get a winger in return. So I dnt have an issue with Cnnolly though he seems to be nflated since in the games he has played t the NZhL he hasn't scored much. I don't know who he had played with. Just because he was a top 10 pick 2 yrs ag means nothing to me. It's about what is potential is. Pysyk looks like a top 4 lock.

Based on draft charts you could do a 3rd for 8th + 38th or for 16th + both 2nd round picks or 3rd + TB 2nd round pick for 8th and 16th.


In other threads one solid proposal would be frm Vancouver for Gaunce, Jensen , 2023 1st. From Columbus for their middle 1 st round pick + 2 young players who are 19-23.

I dnt have an issue n looking to move up to 4th-6thto be able to get me of the forwards.
s
This offer is a major overpayment.

Let's say Pysyk= Connolly

LeCav buyout + 3rd for Vanek + 16th. I think Vanek + 16th for pick 3 or 4 is an overpay but im fine with it. absorbing the $30M cost of LeCav is just too much...something needs to be added by TB or the pick 16 is dropped own to 38th.

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