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The Ron Attwell Story - CAHA Suspends the QAHA, QSHL Becomes the QHL

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Old
05-13-2013, 07:30 AM
  #26
Theokritos
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Point is that the selection of referees should be based strictly on merit as opposed to provenance otherwise the event in question may not be as attractive or spectacular as it should be.
Well, as Killion has pointed out provenance must be taken into account:

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That they werent afforded the opportunity because at that time the OHA was pretty much the creme de la creme of Major Junior Leagues across the country that they felt they should just be given a bye? Included? How could you do that without the possibility of accusations of bias (which based on my experiences with referee's are generally bogus & specious, unfounded, as 99.99% of them are completely dispassionate & entirely objective)? However, in order to remove that 00.001% chance, just go with guys from BC, Alberta or wherever that dont have teams competing. I agree with that policy....
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BTW, they did not do that in the 1972 Summit Series.
Do what? Consider provenance which was my point? Yes, they did that. Merit was your point, not the one discussed and referred to in the posts before.

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If we accept your portrayal of 1972 then the selection of so-called "neutral" referees was tainted by the organizers not willing to pay travel expenses for NA on ice officials to work games in Moscow and European on ice officials to work games in Canada.
I didn't give a "portrayal of 1972". All I have pointed out is that the referees were from neutral countries.

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05-14-2013, 07:35 PM
  #27
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I didn't give a "portrayal of 1972". All I have pointed out is that the referees were from neutral countries.
And your inferring, suggesting that the Refs' in 72 Moscow were completely objective? Not that it has anything to do with the topic of this thread, but sure, I'll indulge your Soviet Sympathies & Apologist Sentiments just long enough to punch your ticket if you insist eva? Im flat out stating that provenance mattered/matters, Im not saying ALL Ref's are bias, corrupt (99.97% are not), but to deny that it existed/exists and that I agreed with the CAHA policy "back in the day" when I did when I did? No. I dont want an OHA/OHL Ref, a QAHA Ref in a game or series when an Ontario teams playing a team outta PQ for the Memorial Cup. Seems like a perfectly reasonable policy to me, and Europe being as small as it is, same pre-conditions should apply.... and while Im at it, you have an opinion on Frank Udvari's career, or perhaps Clarence Campbells when he was Ref?.

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05-14-2013, 07:44 PM
  #28
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And your inferring, suggesting that the Refs' in 72 Moscow were completely objective?
Where did I suggest that?

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Not that it has anything to do with the topic of this thread, but sure, I'll indulge your Soviet Sympathies & Apologist Sentiments just long enough to punch your ticket if you insist eva?
Sympathies for Soviet hockey: yes. Sympathies for anything else related to the Soviet Union or even "Apologist Sentiments"? I'm sorry, but that's nonsense and not a funny accusation at all. You better come up with some examples, otherwise your claim verges on Flaming.

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Im flat out stating that provenance mattered/matters, Im not saying ALL Ref's are bias, corrupt, but to deny that it existed/exists and that I agreed with the CAHA policy "back in the day" when I did when I did? No. I dont want an OHA/OHL Ref, a QAHA Ref in a game or series when an Ontario teams playing a team outta PQ for the Memorial Cup. Seems like a perfectly reasonable policy to me, and Europe being as small as it is, same pre-conditions should apply.
Seems perfectly reasonable to me as well and is exactly my point. So what's your issue?

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05-14-2013, 07:49 PM
  #29
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CAHA Refereeing

Please note that the Memorial Cup on ice official selection, assignment during the O6 era was also an issue touching the opportunity to audition for NHL jobs like the players.

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05-14-2013, 08:27 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Theokritos View Post
You better come up with some examples, otherwise your claim verges on Flaming.... Seems perfectly reasonable to me as well and is exactly my point. So what's your issue?
Hit the triangle Comrade. Report it. Just a click away. And y'know? Good luck with that.... as for the latter, not sure what that even means. Im not the one in a rowboat with 160' of line and a Mepps #9 TROLLING for Muskies. And thats dangerous Son. Trying to land one, could tip your canoe. Savvy?

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Please note that the Memorial Cup on ice official selection, assignment during the O6 era was also an issue touching the opportunity to audition for NHL jobs like the players.
Yes of course, audition, career booster.

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05-14-2013, 09:03 PM
  #31
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Hit the triangle Comrade. Report it. Just a click away. And y'know? Good luck with that....
So you stand by the original accusation? "Soviet Sympathies & Apologist Sentiments"?

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as for the latter, not sure what that even means.
Look, in the first place you said the following thing:

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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
How could you do that without the possibility of accusations of bias (which based on my experiences with referee's are generally bogus & specious, unfounded, as 99.99% of them are completely dispassionate & entirely objective)? However, in order to remove that 00.001% chance, just go with guys from BC, Alberta or wherever that dont have teams competing. I agree with that policy.... on the far end of how if you dont do that you wanna see games get derailed, look no further than the 72 Summit Series.
"If you don't do that" refers to the policy of using refs from neutral territory, right? Well, whatever you think was wrong with the refereeing in the 72 Summit Series, it has nothing to do with a failure to apply that policy. They did use refs from neutral countries. That's all I have pointed out. I didn't claim the referees were good or objective, I didn't give any "portrayal of 1972" at all. But you seemed to suggest the refs weren't from neutral territory which is not correct. Nothing more to it. Pointing out an inaccuracy makes me a "Comrade", really?

C1958 replied that "the selection of referees should be based strictly on merit as opposed to provenance". I countered by reposting your argument that provenance does matter. We agree on this matter and that's why I asked you what your issue is.

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05-14-2013, 09:32 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Theokritos View Post
We agree on this matter and that's why I asked you what your issue is.
Long ride down from your obstreperous beginnings some 6 posts ago eva. Either your deliberately obfuscating or youve decided redaction is the safest way out. Why bother with the tangential mis-direct if you cant finish what you start? Are you seriously suggesting the Refereeing in 72 was of Bond Street Tuxedo Quality? That the CAHA in its primitive years didnt grasp the concept of bias & xenophobia be it jr or pro: provincially or continentally inclined? That would be to disrespect the talents & minds of the men who built this game in Canada, and Im having none of it.

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05-14-2013, 09:47 PM
  #33
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Long ride down from your obstreperous beginnings some 6 posts ago eva. Either your deliberately obfuscating or youve decided redaction is the safest way out.
In honesty and sincerity: it's beyond me why you read in my posts what you seem to read in them. I'm neither obfuscating nor tryting to take the way out. Please, go back to my oh so obstreperous beginnings and read again. "Huh? There were no Canadian or Soviet referees in the 72 Summit Series." Your reply: "Just lousy officiating and claims of bias." My reply: "In any case not because they failed to apply the policy you support." [=the policy of using refs from neutral countries.]
What would I want to obfuscate here?

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Why bother with the tangential mis-direct if you cant finish what you start?
I don't understand what you mean. What I have started (and finished!) is pointing out that the referees in the 72 Summit Series were actually from neutral countries, as opposed to your suggestion.

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Are you seriously suggesting the Refereeing in 72 was of Bond Street Tuxedo Quality?
What in the world are you talking about? Please show me where I am suggesting that. The answer is: nowhere. I have not made any comment about the quality of the refereeing in the whole thread.

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05-14-2013, 09:57 PM
  #34
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Fine... lets get back on topic & thread shall we?

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05-14-2013, 10:04 PM
  #35
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Fine... lets get back on topic & thread shall we?
Basically I'm fine with that. Although the "Soviet Sympathies & Apologist Sentiments" accusation still sits heavily on my stomach, simply because it is not accurate. My sympathies are restricted to hockey.

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05-14-2013, 10:25 PM
  #36
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Although the "Soviet Sympathies & Apologist Sentiments" accusation still sits heavily on my stomach, simply because it is not accurate.
Then you have your work cut out for you, because that Sir is my perception of your attitude through your posts going back eons.

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05-15-2013, 04:22 AM
  #37
Theokritos
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Then you have your work cut out for you, because that Sir is my perception of your attitude through your posts going back eons.
Or maybe you should check your perception and stick with what a poster actually has written before you throw him under the bus. Just the like a couple of Russia fans around here who are under the impression that I have a pro-Canadian, anti-Russian agenda because I dare to contradict some their beloved notions. (Last week one of them complained via PM: "You seem like you don't like Russian too much"). True story.

EDIT: Anyway, on with the thread.


Last edited by Theokritos: 05-15-2013 at 07:23 AM.
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05-15-2013, 09:02 AM
  #38
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EDIT: Anyway, on with the thread.
Where is he now?

http://www.northbaynipissing.com/201...sundridge-man/

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05-15-2013, 09:48 AM
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Rebels

Actually a number of the perceived rebels of the fifties, early activists in the NHL players union or those involved with improving situations for youth players seeking NHL careers have been honoured - Doug Harvey and Dollard St. Laurent have arenas named after them on the island of Montreal. Ralph Buchanan has the rink in a sports complex in Montreal East named after him. Father of Ron Buchanan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Buchanan

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05-17-2013, 01:09 PM
  #40
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1953-54 Season Starts

After a quiet summer with the QHL, NHL and the Canadiens firm in their positions, the season was about to start. Some details remained to be finalized. The All Star game was played with Jean Beliveau signing with the Canadiens just in time to participate.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...=7003%2C779282

The Canadiens rewarded their new found allies in junior hockey, the Quebec Frontenacs, with a lucrative exhibition game in Quebec City. The Canadiens did not actually play the Frontenacs - would have been a mismatch. Such games featured blended rosters of the two teams. The Citadelles were left to fend for themselves in the OHA.

Everyone was curious to see how JeanBeliveau would do:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...6727%2C1415198

The season started with some excitement:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...6981%2C1646387

Cracks formed in the QHL as Shawinigan withdrew before the season started:


http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...6886%2C1653647

Meanwhile the marketing of Jean Beliveau was in full swing:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...3708%2C2173008

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