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Will Ilya Bryzgalov's comments cost him his job?

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Old
05-17-2013, 03:41 AM
  #126
Devonator
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Saying he has a positive opinion of Josef Stalin is no more of an issue than someone saying they have an positive opinion on George W. Bush.
Can you be anymore seriously deluded? That is sick!!! You are comparing perhaps the greatest mass murderer in history in Joseph Stalin to a mediocore President???

Where is your moral compass? Ever read anything by Solzhenitsyn?

Ever heard of the gulags?

It would be like me comparing Obama to Adolf Hitler???

I weep for our future when I know our education system is producing thinking like yours.....incredibly dangerous...I hope you are very young!

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05-17-2013, 08:44 AM
  #127
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Can you be anymore seriously deluded? That is sick!!! You are comparing perhaps the greatest mass murderer in history in Joseph Stalin to a mediocore President???

Where is your moral compass? Ever read anything by Solzhenitsyn?

Ever heard of the gulags?

It would be like me comparing Obama to Adolf Hitler???

I weep for our future when I know our education system is producing thinking like yours.....incredibly dangerous...I hope you are very young!
I thinks it is more clueless/uninformed. Yes I would say young and has probably never actually read about Stalin

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05-17-2013, 08:55 AM
  #128
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Just proves the guy needs the spotlight.

Sad,sad drama queen syndrome.

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05-17-2013, 09:01 AM
  #129
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Really wish there was a way we could show massive disapproval to these assclowns who write this ****. Clearly not buying the paper isn't enough.

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05-17-2013, 09:08 AM
  #130
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Really wish there was a way we could show massive disapproval to these assclowns who write this ****. Clearly not buying the paper isn't enough.
Which is worse; publishing the material or supplying it?

Bryz should really **** and learn to stop the puck.

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05-17-2013, 09:34 AM
  #131
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Which is worse; publishing the material or supplying it?

Bryz should really **** and learn to stop the puck.
That was Wards argument. Comments can be overlooked if you are a top 5 goalie, but when you are a bottom 5 goalie being paid top dollars, the distraction is way too much.

Pang said anyone from Phoenix would of told you how this would all play out and Bobby Mack thinks Bryz is 100% trying to force the Flyers hand to buy him out, he wants out bad !

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05-17-2013, 09:35 AM
  #132
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Which is worse; publishing the material or supplying it?

Bryz should really **** and learn to stop the puck.
Publishing it. Bryzgalov was asked the questions in a ****ing Russian periodical for God's sake. What exactly was provided here?

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05-17-2013, 11:23 AM
  #133
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I don't know if anyone pays attention to IIHF.com's power rankings they publish and update every two days during the WC (they're pretty funny at times, so you should) (http://www.iihf.com/competition/352/...r-ranking.html), but the newest ones take a friendly jab at Bryz, as well. Russia's tag is namely "I would love to talk to Tretiak, Hasek, Brodeur"

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05-17-2013, 11:52 AM
  #134
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Publishing it. Bryzgalov was asked the questions in a ****ing Russian periodical for God's sake. What exactly was provided here?
I don't get this argument at all. It doesn't matter who or where he said it, it's what he said. If you are popular, you can't expect something you said in another country to remain in that country, especially in this day and age.

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05-17-2013, 11:56 AM
  #135
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Ok folks. Lets break down this statement piece by piece (and don't try the "learn some history" bs on me.)

1. Its a way different culture in Russia than most other places. Tyrants and dictators get far more leeway historically there than in a lot of other places. Always has been that way. Also Stalin wasn't a communist. He was a Stalinist. Had the revolution against the Czar been some sort of fascist-based uprising, I have no doubt that Mr. Dzhugashvili would have thrown in his lot with that political movement. (Yes, I'm aware that a "no true scotsman" argument, but I think its pretty apt here)

2. Bryz's first statement
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I see logic in his action. Not without going too far, of course. But he came to power in a country that had just lived through a revolution. There were so many spies, enemies, traitors there. A lot of people still had guns after the civil war. The country was in ruins, [people] needed to survive somehow.
Not completely without merit. Russia was a complete **** show pre-Bolshevik revolution and yes there were political prisoners pre-Stalin and whole bunch of other nasty bits. However, the whole spies, enemies, and traitors thing is a bit disingenuous, since Mr. Man of Steel was all of those things wrapped into one. But ok. Bryz isn't completely out to lunch there.

3.
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Then WWII began. A lot of people came back from that war with guns as well. There was devastation all around, the country had to be rebuilt, had to be able to defend itself. There were so many criminals.
Not untrue, but again, disingenuous since most of Russia's problems with crime and infrastructure were the direct result of Stalin's megalomania and paranoia and other nastiness. Like pretty much killing his entire officer corps pre-war would be a good example. Oh and letting the actual real criminals (i.e not political prisoners) out of prison so they could fight in the war. Bryz is starting to show his historic blindspots. Unfortunately, he's not alone at all in this viewpoint. Now on to the next statement.

4.
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Yes, he knew what he was doing. He is described as a ‘bloody tyrant.’ But at the time it couldn’t be any other way. Yes, there were innocent people who were victims of repressions… But it happens. Not long ago in the US a person was released from prison, who spent 45 years there. It turned out he was innocent. Can you imagine, a person spent his entire life in jail for something he didn’t do.
I can't begin to defend the utter failure of critical thinking in that paragraph. He starts off by shrugging off "repressing" innocent people because hey it happens. But then he gets incredulous when he cites the example of a single innocent person spending 45 years in jail. I mean all people have varying degrees of blind patriotism, but you rarely see such a failure of logical reasoning in a single paragraph. Holy bejesus.

But he can say what he wants and as long as he stops the puck I don't care. In fact, I really don't care anyway, but damn he's not making it easy. I came here to defend Bryz and try to inject some understanding of how Russians view Stalin and how maybe we should take what he said and view it in a different light. However...I just can't...because wow. I know he's not alone by any means in his view of Stalin but...I just can't imagine anyone of even average intelligence making the arguments the way he did. Its just mind-boggling to me.

Of course what he says is not relevant to what he does here as a goaltender, but still...wow.

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05-17-2013, 12:59 PM
  #136
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I figured the comments about Philly and the people on welfare would get people fired up more. The Stalin comments just seem like a bunch of Americans who feel like they need to be outraged about it.

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05-17-2013, 01:29 PM
  #137
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I figured the comments about Philly and the people on welfare would get people fired up more. The Stalin comments just seem like a bunch of Americans who feel like they need to be outraged about it.
It's amazing to me how much that's overlooked. I don't know enough about Russian history to get involved in the Stalin debate, but the comments about Philly and it's natives are what annoyed me.

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05-17-2013, 01:44 PM
  #138
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It's amazing to me how much that's overlooked. I don't know enough about Russian history to get involved in the Stalin debate, but the comments about Philly and it's natives are what annoyed me.
Well to be fair, there is a lot of bad areas in this city and a lot of the athletes do prefer south jersey over living in the city.

The welfare comments he said they weren't his opinions but what he hears other people saying. There is a lot of people who feel that way too so it's not like he would be making that part up.

You can argue wether it's politically correct or not but honestly there is some truth to both of those statements. I just figured most would read over it with their blinders on and be outraged.

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05-17-2013, 01:47 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by The Flin Flon Bomber View Post
4. I can't begin to defend the utter failure of critical thinking in that paragraph. He starts off by shrugging off "repressing" innocent people because hey it happens. But then he gets incredulous when he cites the example of a single innocent person spending 45 years in jail. I mean all people have varying degrees of blind patriotism, but you rarely see such a failure of logical reasoning in a single paragraph. Holy bejesus.
Hmm, the US example can be seen as a continuation of the "hey, it happens" theme, so it wouldn't really be bad logic if that is the case. It could be: "Yes, Stalin did things wrong, but it happens. But things like that don't happen only in Soviet Russia, they happen in other places, as well. For example, not long ago in the US a person was released from prison, who spent 45 years there. It turned out he was innocent. Can you imagine, a person spent his entire life in jail for something he didn’t do. But it happens."

So where exactly is the lack of critical thinking and logical reasoning? He's saying "it happens", but the rest is quite consistent with this theme. Injustices in the legal system happen, because the imperfections are inherently there, so yeah, it happens. You live with it. If you disagree with him whether to shrug off what Stalin did as "it happens", then fine, blame him for that. I don't agree with Stalin being a nice guy, either, but looking at the interview, that's not what Bryz was saying anyway.

But assuming that he's allowed to say "it happens", where's the lack of logical reasoning? Saying "it happens" here has a moral connotation to it, not a logical or rational one. I mean, I know you read and heard him say all of that in Russian and in the context of the entire interview setting, so you know exactly how he said it, what his tone was when saying it and what the entire context was, but I still don't see your point.

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05-17-2013, 04:06 PM
  #140
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I think this is the first time I've ever heard someone say they prefer NBC to any of the Canadian broadcasters. What have these guys said that most of the hockey world hasn't said about Bryz? You do realize that if he would stop shooting his mouth off to the media he wouldn't look as bad as he does, right? We all know the Philly media sucks but why does he keep giving them ammunition? There is no reason to talk to them during the offseason.
Well, I don't like CBC, since they seem to use a boring play-by-play guy without a sidekick, making the entire thing even more boring. I saw their intermission a month or so ago, where the entire panel was actually laughing at Bryz and taking shots at him entirely freely. I mean, there was some truth to it, sure, but the whole thing was stupid.

As for TSN, Gord Miller and Ray Ferraro are enough to drive me away. As much as I dislike Pierre and Doc, I hate Miller's voice and Ferraro's lisp even more. And Miller is just clueless. Ferraro provides for decent analysis, but still. He's like that friendly, but oh-so-boring dude you'd never hang out with or want to listen to. I like MacKenzie, though.

As for NBC, I've only stumbled upon the killer duo of Doc and Pierre once or twice throughout these playoffs, but maybe that's because I stay away from the Eastern conference as much as I can. And the other guys have been great thus far. I also like Milbury as an analyst, although Jones's looking at the cues to figure out what he has to say annoy the hell out of me.

In a nutshell

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05-17-2013, 04:36 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by RevUpThoseGolfCarts View Post
I don't get this argument at all. It doesn't matter who or where he said it, it's what he said. If you are popular, you can't expect something you said in another country to remain in that country, especially in this day and age.
I didn't mean it like that. The original article I read was so poorly translated I had trouble making out what some of it meant until CSKA gave his translation. After that, I had no issue with anything he said. What did you have an issue with? I seriously don't mind any of his opinions.

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05-17-2013, 04:44 PM
  #142
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Well, I don't like CBC, since they seem to use a boring play-by-play guy without a sidekick, making the entire thing even more boring. I saw their intermission a month or so ago, where the entire panel was actually laughing at Bryz and taking shots at him entirely freely. I mean, there was some truth to it, sure, but the whole thing was stupid.

As for TSN, Gord Miller and Ray Ferraro are enough to drive me away. As much as I dislike Pierre and Doc, I hate Miller's voice and Ferraro's lisp even more. And Miller is just clueless. Ferraro provides for decent analysis, but still. He's like that friendly, but oh-so-boring dude you'd never hang out with or want to listen to. I like MacKenzie, though.

As for NBC, I've only stumbled upon the killer duo of Doc and Pierre once or twice throughout these playoffs, but maybe that's because I stay away from the Eastern conference as much as I can. And the other guys have been great thus far. I also like Milbury as an analyst, although Jones's looking at the cues to figure out what he has to say annoy the hell out of me.

In a nutshell
Wow. I guess there is a first for everything but enjoy NBC!

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05-17-2013, 05:25 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by The Flin Flon Bomber View Post
Ok folks. Lets break down this statement piece by piece (and don't try the "learn some history" bs on me.)

1. Its a way different culture in Russia than most other places. Tyrants and dictators get far more leeway historically there than in a lot of other places. Always has been that way. Also Stalin wasn't a communist. He was a Stalinist. Had the revolution against the Czar been some sort of fascist-based uprising, I have no doubt that Mr. Dzhugashvili would have thrown in his lot with that political movement. (Yes, I'm aware that a "no true scotsman" argument, but I think its pretty apt here)

2. Bryz's first statement Not completely without merit. Russia was a complete **** show pre-Bolshevik revolution and yes there were political prisoners pre-Stalin and whole bunch of other nasty bits. However, the whole spies, enemies, and traitors thing is a bit disingenuous, since Mr. Man of Steel was all of those things wrapped into one. But ok. Bryz isn't completely out to lunch there.

3. Not untrue, but again, disingenuous since most of Russia's problems with crime and infrastructure were the direct result of Stalin's megalomania and paranoia and other nastiness. Like pretty much killing his entire officer corps pre-war would be a good example. Oh and letting the actual real criminals (i.e not political prisoners) out of prison so they could fight in the war. Bryz is starting to show his historic blindspots. Unfortunately, he's not alone at all in this viewpoint. Now on to the next statement.

4. I can't begin to defend the utter failure of critical thinking in that paragraph. He starts off by shrugging off "repressing" innocent people because hey it happens. But then he gets incredulous when he cites the example of a single innocent person spending 45 years in jail. I mean all people have varying degrees of blind patriotism, but you rarely see such a failure of logical reasoning in a single paragraph. Holy bejesus.

But he can say what he wants and as long as he stops the puck I don't care. In fact, I really don't care anyway, but damn he's not making it easy. I came here to defend Bryz and try to inject some understanding of how Russians view Stalin and how maybe we should take what he said and view it in a different light. However...I just can't...because wow. I know he's not alone by any means in his view of Stalin but...I just can't imagine anyone of even average intelligence making the arguments the way he did. Its just mind-boggling to me.

Of course what he says is not relevant to what he does here as a goaltender, but still...wow.
What about Guantanamo?

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05-17-2013, 08:04 PM
  #144
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Hmm, the US example can be seen as a continuation of the "hey, it happens" theme, so it wouldn't really be bad logic if that is the case. It could be: "Yes, Stalin did things wrong, but it happens. But things like that don't happen only in Soviet Russia, they happen in other places, as well. For example, not long ago in the US a person was released from prison, who spent 45 years there. It turned out he was innocent. Can you imagine, a person spent his entire life in jail for something he didn’t do. But it happens."

So where exactly is the lack of critical thinking and logical reasoning? He's saying "it happens", but the rest is quite consistent with this theme. Injustices in the legal system happen, because the imperfections are inherently there, so yeah, it happens. You live with it. If you disagree with him whether to shrug off what Stalin did as "it happens", then fine, blame him for that. I don't agree with Stalin being a nice guy, either, but looking at the interview, that's not what Bryz was saying anyway.

But assuming that he's allowed to say "it happens", where's the lack of logical reasoning? Saying "it happens" here has a moral connotation to it, not a logical or rational one. I mean, I know you read and heard him say all of that in Russian and in the context of the entire interview setting, so you know exactly how he said it, what his tone was when saying it and what the entire context was, but I still don't see your point.

Well its not like it "just happened" in Russia. It was a systematic program set up to happen the way it did. Thats the logical misstep. He's comparing an isolated incident to a planned and orchestrated system to discourage dissent and eliminate opposition. Like they're equal things. Which is absurd.

Am I misreading that?

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05-17-2013, 08:05 PM
  #145
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What about Guantanamo?
Thats a better comparison. But not nearly on the same scale.

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05-18-2013, 06:43 AM
  #146
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Thats a better comparison. But not nearly on the same scale.
Maybe the WW2 internment camps would be a better one?

I don't even know why I am getting into this discussion, the article was just dumb.

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05-18-2013, 07:46 AM
  #147
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I figured the comments about Philly and the people on welfare would get people fired up more. The Stalin comments just seem like a bunch of Americans who feel like they need to be outraged about it.
Originally I did click on this thread thinking there would be discussion, but all of it was just about the Stalin comments which I would compare to when Ozzie Guillen talked about Fidel Castro.

Then I thought about why the welfare comments are ignored. Is it because a lot of the people reading what he said thought "Yea, he's right."? If Bryz was a Russian center playing the 76ers I wonder what the reaction would be.

I think hockey in the US obviously skews WAY WAY WAY to the Caucasian side. That's how it is in Philly (Ed Snider Youth Foundation thing not withstanding). I'm sure someone will say "Hey, I was at a Flyers game and there was an African American family sitting near me.", but when you take a look around they are in a minority (no pun intended) when you consider the city demographics now have more African-American residents than Caucasian I don't think you see that type of breakdown at a Flyers game.

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05-18-2013, 11:00 AM
  #148
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Originally I did click on this thread thinking there would be discussion, but all of it was just about the Stalin comments which I would compare to when Ozzie Guillen talked about Fidel Castro.

Then I thought about why the welfare comments are ignored. Is it because a lot of the people reading what he said thought "Yea, he's right."? If Bryz was a Russian center playing the 76ers I wonder what the reaction would be.

I think hockey in the US obviously skews WAY WAY WAY to the Caucasian side. That's how it is in Philly (Ed Snider Youth Foundation thing not withstanding). I'm sure someone will say "Hey, I was at a Flyers game and there was an African American family sitting near me.", but when you take a look around they are in a minority (no pun intended) when you consider the city demographics now have more African-American residents than Caucasian I don't think you see that type of breakdown at a Flyers game.
I don't think it's a race thing. There's actually more white people on welfare in this country than black people IIRC.

Most probably see some truth in what he's saying wether they like to admit it or not. He also said it wasn't his opinion but what he hears other people saying.

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05-18-2013, 11:38 AM
  #149
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“Yes, he knew what he was doing. He is described as a ‘bloody tyrant.’ But at the time it couldn’t be any other way. Yes, there were innocent people who were victims of repressions… But it happens. Not long ago in the US a person was released from prison, who spent 45 years there. It turned out he was innocent. Can you imagine, a person spent his entire life in jail for something he didn’t do.”
"Described" as a bloody tyrant? Does Bryz think that label is unfair or something?

Does he seriously think Stalin had no alternative? To write off something like that as if it was unavoidable is pretty outrageous. Were talking tens of millions of lives here.

The only way something like that "just happens" is when a paranoid megalomaniac with no regard for human life causes it to happen.

It boggles the mind that people think Bryz' comments are defensible.

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05-18-2013, 01:33 PM
  #150
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I don't think it's a race thing. There's actually more white people on welfare in this country than black people IIRC.

Most probably see some truth in what he's saying wether they like to admit it or not. He also said it wasn't his opinion but what he hears other people saying.
In this country as a whole you're right, but in the case of Philadelphia and in the context of what he was talking about it... It most certainly is a minority issue. I took offense to his comments because they sound like the things I hear from racist members of my extended family that I do my best to avoid.

Usually from the ones who live in the suburbs of PA or NJ. I'm someone who's lived in Philadelphia my entire life and worked in 'not so nice' sections of the city. To just classify people the way he did even if he's repeating what he's heard from other ignorant people is upsetting to me.

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